The Doctor Who Spoilers Thread – Part II

[John Hoare]

This thread continues this discussion. The topic was split because the system was running out of memory. Bastards.

Topic

[Ian Symes]

MY TURN.

* Rose > Smith & Jones > New Earth > Partners in Crime
* The End of the World > The Shakespeare Code > Tooth & Claw > The Fires of Pompeii
* Gridlock > School Reunion > The Unquiet Dead > Planet of the Ood
* Slitheen = Cybermen = Daleks = Sontarans (I genuinely can’t choose between these at all! They’re all fun but deeply flawed. I like and hate them all equally.)
* Dalek = Girl in the Fireplace > The Lazarus Experiment > The Doctor?s Daughter
* The Long Game > The Idiot?s Lantern > 42 > The Unicorn and the Wasp

* The Empty Child Dances = Human of Blood > The Impossible Pit (but all three are ace)
* Father?s Day = Blink > Love & Monsters
* Utopia > Boom Town > Fear Her (by about three billion miles)
* Bad Ways > Army of Doomsday > The Sound of Timelords (but all three are ace)

* The Christmas Invasion > Voyage of the Damned > The Runaway Bride

[Seb Patrick]

* Rose > Smith & Jones >>>> Partners in Crime >>> New Earth
* The Shakespeare Code > The End of the World > Tooth & Claw > The Fires of Pompeii
* Gridlock > School Reunion > The Unquiet Dead > Planet of the Ood
* Slitheen > Cybermen > Daleks > Sontarans
* Girl in the Fireplace > Dalek (ooh, but it’s close) >>>>>>>> Lazarus > Doctor’s Daughter
Dalek = Girl in the Fireplace > The Lazarus Experiment > The Doctor?s Daughter
* The Long Game > The Unicorn and the Wasp > The Idiot?s Lantern >>>> 42 (by far the worst position of the series, this)
* The Empty Child Dances > Human of Blood > The Impossible Pit (as with everyone else, there’s not been a foot put wrong on these)
* Blink > Father’s Day > Love & Monsters
* Utopia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boom Town >>>>>>>>>>> Fear Her
* Bad Ways > Army of Doomsday > The Sound of Timelords (and not much to choose between them, Sound of Timelords loses out through a poor second half)

* The Christmas Invasion >>>>>>>>>>> The Runaway Bride >>>> Voyage of the Damned United

[Pete Part Three]

Wow. I didn’t realise each season had such a rigid formula. And what’s bizarre is that the quality of the numbered episode seems to be, mostly, consistent year to year).

Not that I’m any authority on Doctor Who, but here we go.

* Smith and Jones > Rose = New Earth = Partners in Crime (1, 2 and 4 being rubbish)
* The Fires of Pompeii >> The Shakespeare Code > The End of the World > Tooth & Claw
* The Unquiet Dead > School Reunion > Planet of the Ood > Gridlock
* Sontarans > Slitheen = Cybermen = Daleks (all pretty much awful)
* Girl in the Fireplace >> Dalek > The Doctor’s Daughter > The Lazarus Experiment
* The Unicorn and the Wasp > The Long Game > The Idiot?s Lantern > 42 (don’t think I’ve seen The Long Game since broadcast, mind)
* Human of Blood > The Impossible Pit > The Empty Child Dances (All great)
* Blink >>>>>> Father’s Day > Love and Monsters
* Utopia > Boom Town >>>>> Fear Her (the final ten minutes of Utopia are awesome)
* Bad Ways >>>> Army of Doomsday > The Sound of Timelords (third was such a let down)

* The Christmas Invasion > Voyage of the Damned > The Runaway Bride

[Smeg4Brains]

Your Nan > Your Mum

[Pete Part Three]

Daddy > Chips

[John Hoare]

It’s interesting what people are saying about Voyage of the Damned not standing up to rewatching – I wasn’t that keen on it first time round, and I was obviously in a good mood because it was Christmas. Maybe I wasn’t drunk enough.

Frankly, TNG did the same idea better in Disaster. And it had better jokes, too.

[Ian Symes]

Oh, also:

Time Crash > 2005 CiN mini-episode

[Andrew]

Time Crash > 2005 CiN mini-episode >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dimensions in Time

[John Hoare]

I CANNOT WAIT UNTIL SATURDAY.

[Pete Part Three]

Other weekdays are available.

[Seb Patrick]

Stupid series four (and advance word) has made me worried that this year’s Moffat won’t be as good as the previous years. Or indeed as good as the previous years’ “adult two-parters”. Sigh.

[Ian Symes]

Briefly reading DWM whilst pooing this morning, Midnight looks like it could be a surprise hit. It appears to be the Who equivalent of Marooned (or rather, an updated version of Edge of Destruction mixed with The Deadly Assassin) and, crucially, Catherine Tate is only in it for about thirty seconds.

[Seb Patrick]

Hmm, interesting. And if “Turn Left” does what it looks like it might be doing, it could turn out to be rather genius as well.

[pfm]

Moffat’s gonna hit it out of the park (ooh, that’s American sounding, isn’t it?) again, I’m damned sure of that. Getting Euros Lyn back for the first time since the fucking Runaway Bride is a fucking stroke of genius too. I wonder if Moffat actually requested his return (the last thing I remember seeing his name on was the Billy Goat episode of that fairy tale thing which Jeremy Dyson – of The League Of Fucking Gentlemen wrote and Bernard Hill was in it doing a funny voice).

Here is a fact – SERIES 4 HAS BEEN SUB-PAR SO FAR.
Here is another fact – SERIES 3 WAS HARDLY ANY BETTER AT THIS STAGE
Here is the third in this zany, outrageous series of facts – TOO MANY PEOPLE HAVE FORGOTTEN HOW GOOD THE OLDER EPISODES WERE (E.G. THE END OF THE WORLD, THE IMPOSSIBLE PLANET) AND SO ARE JUST ACCEPTING SHIT WRITTEN AND DIRECTED BY HACKS AS THOUGH IT’S THE NORM

Here is the fourth and most important fact, something that will have you reeling more than when you find out (if you haven’t already) who is in the coffin on Lost –

MY SHIT-CAKED BUTTOCK HAIR > YOUR FACE

[ChrisM]

What a beautiful image. Makes me feel quite spiritual.

Thank God for the helmet then. I was thinking of taking it off, but in retrospect, I think it would be best where it is.

[John Hoare]

THAT IS HOW YOU MAKE DOCTOR WHO KTHXBYE.

[Rad]

4/5. A bit slow in places and the shadow idea (which isn’t that original) wasn’t that well executed in my opinion. Still, they implied Catherine Tate’s death so it’s much closer to 5 than 3.

[Ian Symes]

This was about 12 million out of 5.

[John Hoare]

That wasn’t slow, that was building tension!

God, SO much to enjoy, and so many mysteries that I have no idea what they’re going to do with. And so many standout moments. Best episode since The Sound of Drums for me, easily.

[Pete Part Three]

Just about to head out so will pop back to discuss this when I have more time, but I thought it was a corker. Plenty of mysteries and lots to be explained next week.

Touches of TGITF (the little girl seeing glimpses of another world) and Blink (the Doctor meeting someone after they’ve already met him).

Great stuff. Not quite up to the standards of the episodes above, but a return to form. When Doctor Who is good…It’s very, very good. And Steven Moffatt is usually the man responsible.

The Doctor’s song is ending : River Song. Coincidence?

[John Hoare]

Touches of TGITF (the little girl seeing glimpses of another world) and Blink (the Doctor meeting someone after they?ve already met him).

I have to say, if there’s ONE criticism of the episode, it’s that occasionally it felt a bit TOO much like a combination of those two episodes. Not nearly enough to annoy, mind.

Also – the Library appears to be using my Apple keyboard. Which reminds me of seeing my BBC Micro keyboard in 80s Who, and Body Swap…

[John Hoare]

I was just thinking that we haven’t had much from RTD this year – just the RUBBISH Partners In Crime… and then I just checked. I didn’t realise the last four episodes of the series are by him!

This ep was the beginning of the turnaround for the series for me, I’m sure. I love Moffatt to bits, but I also love RTD doing end-of-season stuff. And if Love & Monsters is anything to go by, I’m going to love his Doctor-lite ep as well.

It’s going to be brilliant, or… I’ll do something very complicated.

[ChrisM]

Indeed so far so good.

It’s interesting how Moffat can take everyday things in our world, (statues, shadows etc) and make a scary alien threat out of it. Stuff that actually sounds daft, yet somehow really works. In fact possibly works because these are things we have seen in our world… twisted somehow. And not by much either.

Blink was particularly effective for me as I actually had a fear of statues as a kid. (It’s something about those stone faces and those hard empty eyes.) And who isn’t afraid of the dark? True the shadow stuff wasn’t that original, but this take on it, parasitic organisms who devour you to the bone… interesting stuff.

And what about the creepy chip stuff? I don’t really get the point of a person’s memory engrams being stored in your communications equipment (think I’ve got that right) but in terms of mixing the eerie with a sense of sadness… it worked.

By the way, I’ve got my theory as to what’s happening with the girl. Not sure I should say it in case I end up spoiling things (if I turn out to be right. It’s not that much of a stretch though.)

[Seb Patrick]

Spot on. Wonderful. So many great moments (how fucking great was the bit where Colin Salmon turned round and said NOTHING IS REAL KTHXBYE), so many inherent childhood fears tapped into (when he said about the dust in sunlight, I almost applauded), and more ideas in 45 minutes than in an entire series of eps written by anyone other than himself and Rusty (stuff like the “ghost” thing – what a wonderful idea, and instead of building an ep around it, it’s just part of the tapestry).

And yeah, let’s share theories about River. Mine is that she’s his wife, she’s going to die at the end of this story (so that the first time he meets her is the last time she meets him), but we’ll see her again (and she raises all sorts of questions about when we can be allowed to see DT regenerate). I reckon that when writing this, Moff will already have known he was taking over – and he’s setting up things to be brought back in his own run. Remember, too, that he was apparently the one that asked for Jenny to be kept alive…

[Seb Patrick]

Oh, and incidentally – Rachel went to school with Tallulah Riley…

[ChrisM]

I wondered about The Doctor’s regeneration on following River’s comments too. She suggests he is a lot younger than when she knew. Does this mean that Tenant will remain as the Doctor for longer than has been suggested?

On the other hand, she sent him the message on his psychic paper (wonder how she managed that one by the way?) so she was expecting him to turn up. Hence she might still have known him in another incarnation. You’ll notice that she recognized him as younger, particularly by looking in his eyes which might support the ‘other incarnation’ idea. Otherwise, surely it would have been obvious when they first met that he was younger than the doctor she knew, as I understand the doctor does age like we do, albeit probably at a slower rate. (I think his first incarnation was a few centuries old wasn’t he?)

Interesting thoughtful stuff. I’m not too keen on the romantic implications though (not sure how that fits the Doctor’s character, although he has had a romantic fling before with Madame De Pompadour and of course his late wife) but she is an interesting character and great actress. (Didn’t she play a prostitute character in a victorian setting a short while back? I forget the name of the character/show.)

She’s also one of those older women who retains a vivacious and dare I say ‘cor!’ quality. (Not that that’s the most important thing…)

[ChrisM]

Oh dear.

[Ridley]

Your eyes can deceive you. Don’t trust them.

[Seb Patrick]

>I?m not too keen on the romantic implications though (not sure how that fits the Doctor?s character, although he has had a romantic fling before with Madame De Pompadour and of course his late wife)

While I don’t think romance should be a defining aspect of the show, I really hate the suggestion that the Doctor should somehow be completely free of it or should be portrayed as asexual. Let’s not forget that the absolute FIRST thing we ever find out about him is that he’s a grandfather. And while I’d hate to see any kind of overt romance with a companion, I think TGITF showed perfectly how you can do a romance in the context of the show. So I’d trust Moffat to do it again, frankly ;-)

>but she is an interesting character and great actress. (Didn?t she play a prostitute character in a victorian setting a short while back? I forget the name of the character/show.)

Moll Flanders was the name of both. Although it’s Restoration, not Victorian ;-) (couple of hundred years older…)

[Tanya Jones]

> Oh, and incidentally – Rachel went to school with Tallulah Riley?

I’ve always thought a sign of getting older was when pop stars or up and coming actors are your age or younger! I wasn’t surprised she was called Tallulah; only a girl that pretty could get away with it. She could rival Angelina Jolie with those lips.

Anyway, great episode, fantastic nasty deaths, I *heart* Steven Moffat.

[Seb Patrick]

>I?ve always thought a sign of getting older was when pop stars or up and coming actors are your age or younger!

Well, Rach was actually a couple of years above her – but she was in her sister’s year…

[Ian Symes]

While I don?t think romance should be a defining aspect of the show, I really hate the suggestion that the Doctor should somehow be completely free of it or should be portrayed as asexual. Let?s not forget that the absolute FIRST thing we ever find out about him is that he?s a grandfather. And while I?d hate to see any kind of overt romance with a companion, I think TGITF showed perfectly how you can do a romance in the context of the show.

This.

In my head, the Doctor can have a relationship/snog/shag/marriage/whatever with anyone he wants, just not his companions. That would be him abusing a position of trust, and the role of the companion is something completely different altogether.

[pfm]

Well I’m totally convinced that RTD is going to have the Doctor get together properly with Rose. OK, she isn’t his companion anymore, but if she was they would have got it on eventually without a doubt. There comes a point where they’re no longer just Doctor and companion but…potential fuck buddies.

Rose’s final appearance (whenever that may be…) is going to end with her hand over her stomach, suggesting she is pregnant with the Doctor’s child. You know it.

Btw Silence In The Library was excellent all-round. Tennant acting like he cares again, excellent guest performances, some of the best effects shots we’ve seen so far in all 4 series’ (the library exteriors!). They struggled to make the shadows effective though. Also, I still don’t understand why they kept using the skull in the space helmet in the promotion for the episode. That should have been a cool moment but everyone knew it was coming!

Moffat is a genius. Fact.

[ChrisM]

>Moll Flanders was the name of both. Although it?s Restoration, not Victorian ;-) (couple of hundred years older?)

Ah yes, that’s the one. It was one of those ‘tip of the toungue/fingers names. And silly me with the dates. Trust me to mentally lump all those olde period later than the middle ages under Victorian. (Ok, that’s a bit of an exaggeration, my memory was vague of the programme was vague, I couldn’t quite remember the setting.)

And point taken concerning Doctor and romance (I did mention his marriage etc though.) As long as they don’t make a big thing of it, which I doubt they’ll do anyway.

By the way, did you notice the sonic screwdriver gag? It’s wood, it won’t work! (Although they found a way of making it work.) Seems they are taking into account criticisms concerning the screwdriver.

I didn’t have much of a problem with it being used that way mind. Using it as a communication/scanning device seemed a bit over the top though. Ok, sound waves could be used that way, but it seems the latest make of the screwdriver has integrated tricorder/psi-scan abilities too. I wouldn’t mind if he just had another gadget that dealt with that stuff. I’m sure there are plenty of odds and ends in the storage of the Tardis. Or those voluminous timelord pockets.

[John Hoare]

Has it ever been the case that we don’t officially know the name of the first episode of the series finale at this point?

(I don’t know it unofficially yet either, mind you – is it out there? I’ve been avoiding spoilers…)

[Seb Patrick]

There’s fan speculation out there, but I doubt any of it will turn out to be real. No, it’s never been the case before. I think it’s ridiculous, frankly – if the title’s “too spoilery”, then why not bloody change it to something that isn’t?

[John Hoare]

It probably is a bit ridiculous… but I can’t deny that not knowing it is working me up to fever pitch. Especially given the title of the last episode!

[Jonathan Capps]

I seem to remember ‘Bad Wolf’ being hidden for a while into the airing of the series.

[pfm]

I think they’re just winding the fans up by not revealing it yet. I would have liked them to have used ‘Davros’ somewhere, simply because his name has never appeared in a TV series title, but I think they’ve already said neither ‘Davros’ or ‘Daleks’ have been used.

I bet it’s called something like ‘The Shadow Proclamation’ or ‘The Medusa Cascade’.

[Smeg4Brains]

My bet is “Doctor gets Randy”

[Ian Symes]

It’ll have Skaro in the title, I bet you.

[John Hoare]

Is your name Holly?

[Pete Part Three]

Just watched SITL again. I don’t usually watch an episode again so soon after its airing (and don’t bother with the majority) but thought I’d try and figure out what the hell is going on.

Not a clue. Still great though.

[Danny Stephenson]

Is your name Holly?

“Is your name Holly?”

[pfm]

If you knew what was going on what would be the point in the second part? I say thank god there’s actually some mystery and that we, for once, give a toss about it, unlike the Sontaran 2-parter which I couldn’t have given several tosses over. Maybe if they’d shown us better shots of the naked Martha clone in that pool…

That sums up this series for me, I couldn’t give a shit about what’s happening. I’m not one of those going ‘OMG ROSE just appeared on the Tardis screen! What could it mean???’ And the contained episode stories have bored me to death (the Pompeii episode aside, which was at least semi-interesting. James Moran definitely needs to return in series 5 to have another bash at an ep). They keep failing to grasp the concept of entertaining a viewer on more than a superficial, on-the-surface only fashion. Moffat knows how to do it, but he shouldn’t be the only one in an entire series. RTD’s final four really have a LOT to do to convince me the show isn’t generally in a state of disarray (again, Moffat aside).

[Ben Paddon]

If you’re not interested in the show, why are you watching it?

[pfm]

Because at the very least it gives my cock a rest for 44 minutes. That is until I remember that Catherine Tate has breasts. Even my ladyfriend likes them (considering she goes out with me you might say she’s a big fan of tits…).

[Ben Paddon]

You could watch Ready Steady Cook instead. Give your cock a rest by watching another one talk to people who are JUST TRYING TO COOK GODDAMIT AINSLEY I AM TRYING TO PEEL THESE SPUDS AND YOU ARE IN MY PERSONAL SPACE FUCK RIGHT OFF.

[Pete Part Three]

>If you knew what was going on what would be the point in the second part?

I knew exactly what was going on in the first part of the Sontaran two-parter. Badly-written nonsense…but I still watched Part 2.

Seriously, though. There’s so many questions from SITL that it will be quite an achievement if the entire 45 minutes of part 2 is not dedicated to exposition. You expect a few mysteries from Moffatt, but lets see:

1)Little girl / security camera with conscious
2)River Song (who is she?)
3)What’s in the book?
4)What’s happened to Donna?
5)What does “saved” mean?

…I could go on.

In other news, according to a few websites, DT is dating Georgia Moffet. Jammy git.

[Seb Patrick]

Will he ever go out with anyone he DOESN’T meet on the Who set?

Also, this adds an intriguing new complexion to Time Crash, don’t you think?

[Author]

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