The Doctor Who Spoilers Thread – Part III

[John Hoare]

This thread continues this discussion. Careful, now.

Topic

[John Hoare]

As for my reactions to the episode – I loved it. I would need to watch it again before I can judge people’s criticisms of the episode – but on a first watch, I was too busy bouncing up and down and being hugely excited by it.

Tate *did* do some of the stuff that usually annoys me, but – oddly enough – it didn’t, this time round. In fact, I even laughed at some of her lines! Ah well, it only took me 10 weeks…

[Somebody]

Meh – 324 posts? Amateurs :p

Andrew:
I think you?re wrong. The reason some people are focussing on the arc is because of how little the stand alone aspects of the ep succeed. For a story that was supposed to show Donna?s Great Importance, what it actually showed was how dead we?d be without the Doctor. She saved his life once – so have loads of companions (and guest characters), so much as his life CAN be saved – and that?s really not enough to grant her this mythic status.

Well, quite.

Moreover, there’s no indication that the Doctor came so close to (effectively) suicide between TRB and S&J, or between VotD and PiC, when he was travelling without a companion- Doomsday/TRB was just his One Bad Day. And, for a basically Rational (as opposed to magic-dominated) universe like DW, putting “fate” and “prophecy” into things… doesn’t really work.

Although, of course, episodes like the terminally horrid Shakespeare Code chip away at that foundation.

[Pete Part Three]

Donna was an odd choice for this type of story as, thanks to the fact that she went AWOL for 14 episodes after her first appearance, she already was a mere witness to Smith and Jones and Voyage of the Damned.

On a similar note, wasn’t there a line in TRB where the Doctor was trying to remind her of the crazy things that had happened during Series 1 and 2 and she pretty much said she hadn’t been paying attention? (I’ve only seen TRB once as I thought it was pretty awful…so I might be wrong). Glad she bucked up her ideas in this alternate reality.

[Somebody]

Not so much “a line” as “[poor] running gag” (scuba-diving in Spain during Army of Ghosts/Doomsday, for instance)

You will note, however, that she was prompted to notice practically everything here (it was only Wilf’s intervention that made her realise what the labour camps were, for instance). About the only exception was the equivalent of the TRB events themselves.

[ChrisM]

Concerning that teaser clip, I thought it interesting the mention of “Children of time”, particularly the plurality since as far as we know for certain there is only one Time lord, 2 if you include the Doctor’s daughter. (Ok, maybe 3 if the master makes a comeback in some form.)

It might just refer to the Doctor’s companions of course… or just people in general as products of time (but that would include the speaker too right? Why would he speak specifically as if it were someone other?)

I’m probably putting too much importance in a line phrased to sound melodramatic though.

And I love the voice.

[Andrew]

> It might just refer to the Doctor?s companions of course

Well, yes.

[ChrisM]

>> It might just refer to the Doctor?s companions of course

>Well, yes.

But you wouldn’t think an ego like that would consider them particularly a threat. It just seemed like he was referring to more (in his mind I mean) somehow.

Your probably right and it’s just a melodramatic comment. Just speculating.

[Andrew]

> But you wouldn?t think an ego like that would consider them particularly a threat.

All he says is that the children of time “are moving against us”. Not “Fuck me, we’re doomed, we’re doomed! Women and one-armed biomechanoids first!” Not big with the melodrama, just a statement of fact; in fact he seems to regard it as part of the plan.

The Doctor’s (younger) companions. Who have travelled in time. Fighting against Davros and his Daleks. It’s not TARDIS science.

Still, I think the fact that you now believe it IS Davros means we’ve come a long way… ;-)

[ChrisM]

All he says is that the children of time ?are moving against us?. Not ?Fuck me, we?re doomed, we?re doomed! Women and one-armed biomechanoids first!?
Not big with the melodrama, just a statement of fact; in fact he seems to regard it as part of the plan.

Smartypants (although the highlighted bit did make me laugh.) Point taken. I guess I’m just interested in seeing more links with the other time lords and The Great Time War and I’m grasping at straws.

Still you’ll eat those words when Romana jumps out of a tissue-box (tardises can look like anything remember) and flashes Davros diverting his attention at a crucial plot point.

>Still, I think the fact that you now believe it IS Davros means we?ve come a long way? ;-)

Hey, I was just going by the evidence available at the time, which was a vague silhouette (whilst the rest of you were grabbing spoilers from the rest of the web. Not that I haven’t done that before mind you.) There’s been a bit more evidence since then. Like the bloke with laryngitis in that clip.

[Dave]

I didn’t play last time around:

Smith And Jones>Rose>New Earth>Partners In Crime
Tooth And Claw>The Flames Of Pompeii>The Shakespeare Code>The End Of The World
The Unquiet Dead>Gridlock>School Reunion>Planet Of The Ood
Slitheen x2>Sontaran x2>Cybermen x2>Dalek x2
The Girl In The Fireplace>Dalek>The Lazarus Experiment>The Doctor?s Daughter
The Long Game>The Unicorn And The Wasp>The Idiot’s Lantern>42
Blink>Midnight>Love & Monsters>Father?s Day
Human Nature>Silence In the Library>The Empty Child>The Satan Pit
Utopia>Turn Left>Boom Town>Fear Hear
Parting of the Ways>Sound of Drums>Doomsday
The Christmas Invasion>The Runaway Bride>Voyage Of The Damned
Time Crash>The Infinite Quest>Children in Need 2005

[Andrew]

> Hey, I was just going by the evidence available at the time

Um, I wasn’t going from great big spoilers. I was going from the twin factors of ‘we haven’t seen Davros yet’ and ‘who has the bottom half of a dalek and a single glowing eye?’ as per the trailer…

[ChrisM]

A dalek?

But no, top in shadow, I see your point.

It wasn’t so much that I disbelieved it could be him, more I wasn’t convinced was. I was just so sure I could see the cone shape silhouette continuing up into the shadow… (particularly on the left.) On seeing the picture of him here, I think it must have been that curving bit at his back (or his shoulder maybe.) Or I was just seeing things… which is likely the case.

But anyway, I’m glad to be wrong.

[Dave]

Hands up who thought the name Turn Left was going to be a reference to Atmos SatNavs?

I did.

[Pete Part Three]

Well, no. It was a good title though. ;-)

[Zombie Jim Undead]

I did. *raises hand*

And I thought “midnight” was going to involve the stars going out.

Anyone think it’s possible that Donna might have a fob watch?

[Seb Patrick]

If Donna has a fob watch, the show has officially jumped every shark possible.

See also : if Harriet Jones is a Dalek.

See also : if a “second Doctor” regenerates from the severed hand and goes off to live with Rose in the parallel universe.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

It wouldn’t bother me too much. The Doctor transformed into a well-spoken bumbling coward when he turned into a human. Possible that a time lady could become a shouty cockerney.

And Harriet Jones being a Dalek…seems reasonable enough.

All depends on how they handle it.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

On the subject of this week’s episode….anyone else think that Billie wasn’t very good?

Her teeth seemed to have grown and now seem to be too big for her mouth….resulting in some strange speech anomalies.

[Pete Part Three]

See Also : Bees being used as Daleks

>On the subject of this week?s episode?.anyone else think that Billie wasn?t very good?

This is also the subject of the first two seasons.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

>This is also the subject of the first two seasons.

Teeheehoddleho.

;)

I hope they do make something of the bees… maybe Davros is collecting them and using them to carry some kind of virus. Like what the X-Files done.

Or maybe he’s become a bee keeper.

Which would explain this leaked press shot:

[Seb Patrick]

>Possible that a time lady could become a shouty cockerney.

And so her parents and grandfather… what, appeared out of thin air?

[Pete Part Three]

She’s obviously been made human and the memories of her “family” have been changed to protect her from Davros. He wants to use her to open the door to the other alternate universes.

[John Hoare]

I didn’t notice a thing wrong with Billie’s performance, to be honest. Or anything to do with her teeth. I thought she was wonderful.

The beetle was a bit crap when the camera lingered on it though (I think the fleeting shots worked fine, especially just the glimpses of leg), although it reminded me enough of old Who that I just smiled and it didn’t bother me. It needed to be slimed down to look better, I think.

[Ian Symes]

You need to be slimmed down to look better.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

Did feel a bit like recycling ideas since it had nothing to do with Planet of the Spiders in the end…

[ChrisM]

I didn?t notice a thing wrong with Billie?s performance, to be honest. Or anything to do with her teeth. I thought she was wonderful.

Hear hear! And I think her acting ability has improved if anything. I think her stint in other shows in the meantime has probably been to her benefit (although I think she got better at the end of her role in Who.) Not that I disliked her to begin with.

[Dave]

I thought her accent was more mockney than ever and her teeth looked like they were getting bigger and bigger.

I was still happy to have her back though.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

Heehee! Found a fan fiction that deals with her new lisp!

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4343427/1/Secrets

I still love Billie, even if she is a tooth mental.

[Seb Patrick]

Except it’s not a lisp. It was more of a tooth-whistling thing.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

Indeed.

It even made the news!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/2182328/Doctor-Who-star-Billie-Piper-in-TV-mystery.html

Poor girl. It’s enough to give her a complex.

[pfm]

She was speaking fine on the Confidential episode. Obviously she had to get that sorted out and fast if she was gonna have a credible career! It WASN’T to do with her trying to do Rose’s voice.

[ChrisM]

I didn’t notice the lisp at all.

I did notice that she sounds a bit different, but I just put that down to character progression, i.e. she’s a quieter, more serious, more experienced version of Rose to the one we knew. Sure, that doesn’t mean a person’s accent would change… but it makes sense she might give up some of her, er, chavisms (for want of a better word) after a while being in a formal environment like Torchwood (it seems much more formal than the laid back version Captain Jack, er, captains in this reality.)

In short it didn’t strike me as much of a contradiction. And I didn’t notice the teeth.

[Dave]

>And I didn?t notice the teeth

Take the sunglasses off indoors

[Ben Paddon]

I didn’t notice anything at all.

[Smeg4Brains]

> I didn?t notice anything at all.

How could you not?
Her teeth stick out half an inch more than they did before.

[Seb Patrick]

Jesus, seen the brief clip that was on Blue Peter, of the “Crucible” and whatnot? This looks FUCKING EPIC – the massive fuck-off finale we’ve always been promised but never *quite* got. It seems that part one is the big epic on Earth, and part two is the big epic in space…

[Dave]

> I didn?t notice anything at all.

http://doctorwho.time-and-space.co.uk/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=84688&fullsize=1

[ChrisM]

>Take the sunglasses off indoors

Ironically I actually do wear sunglasses when I watch TV.

I have an excuse though, I’m short-sighted and they’re prescription sunglasses. (I lost the original pair a while back.)

I went to see the Incredible Hulk today. And I wore the sunglasses. I thought the big bright screen would compensate ok, and it mostly did… but the shadowy scenes were a bit of a nuisance.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

> > I didn?t notice anything at all.

> http://doctorwho.time-and-space.co.uk/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=84…

Heath Ledger is going to be brilliant in this.

[Seb Patrick]

This is a fucking good scene :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/episodes/?episode=S4_12&character=&action=videostream&playlist=/doctorwho/playlists/s4_12/video/s4_12_trl_03.xml&video=1&date=&summary=Exterminate.&info=&info2=&info3=&tag_file_id=s4_12_trl_03

I honestly think this is going to be Russell’s best finale yet. And I think he’s going to finally shut everyone up about overuse of the Daleks, because as with series one, I think he’s making them scary as fuck once more.

[Pete Part Three]

***Looking forward to being shut up***

[Andrew]

> This is a fucking good scene

Christ that’s powerful!

The best Dalek episodes have always spent time showing you how scared everyone is – people whose opinions you trust. This is working up be being the ultimate version of that. If the episode runs true to this kind of form, we’re in for a hell of a ride.

[Seb Patrick]

Bear in mind that’s Jack, an invulnerable man, being confronted with the *one* thing that’s ever killed him. And Sarah Jane seeing Daleks again is just a mega, mega moment. I *really* hope she winds up in the same room as Dave at some point.

Basically, the trailers/clips this week have done the job on me that the last ten minutes of Utopia did last year. My excitement is at utter, utter fever pitch.

Incidentally, it’s probably as much of a red herring as the Astrid/TARDIS thing, given that RTD came up with her name long before he’ll have planned the series four arc or known she was coming back (you’d think), but… “Donna” is Italian for “lady”. And she keeps going on about how she’s just a “temp”… “temp”… “lady”…?

(I don’t believe it for a second. But it’s fun!)

[Zombie Jim Undead]

Wonder if Donna will be revealed to be a time lady and River Song was a future incarnation?

[Andrew]

> Basically, the trailers/clips this week have done the job on me that the last ten minutes of Utopia did last year. My excitement is at utter, utter fever pitch.

I can’t disagree – and for all my reservations about the episode, Turn Left’s “Bad Wolf” moment totally ramped up my enthusiasm.

[Seb Patrick]

Have you seen the new DWM?

It comes in a bag, because it has a free book, and when you open it up… the text on the actual cover has all been replaced with BAD WOLF.

(or that might just be the subscriber version, I’m not sure)

[pfm]

> Wonder if Donna will be revealed to be a time lady and River Song was a future incarnation?

That would be fantastic. A regeneration into River Song, how utterly crazy would that be?? But IMO we’re never meant to know who River Song is, just as we’ll never hear the Doctor’s name. Also, it’s implied that River and the Doctor were intimate and that’s hardly likely to happen with Donna. She’s the only other companion, the only other cast member period(!), who hasn’t wanted to get it on with the Doctor.

> and for all my reservations about the episode, Turn Left?s ?Bad Wolf? moment totally ramped up my enthusiasm.

Well bully for you.

[Andrew]

> It comes in a bag, because it has a free book, and when you open it up? the text on the actual cover has all been replaced with BAD WOLF.

Gen-i-us!

[Ian Symes]

Wonder if Donna will be revealed to be a time lady and River Song was a future incarnation?

River would have recognised her if she was a past incarnation, shurely?

[Seb Patrick]

Bagged : http://www.gallifreyone.com/picview.php?ret=news&sub=news&id=397_-_with_bagb.jpg

Unbagged : http://www.gallifreyone.com/picview.php?ret=news&sub=news&id=DWM397_COVERb.jpg

[Author]

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