Titan: Prologue & Part 1 – SPOILERS

[Ian Symes]

Welcome to the spoiler-laden discussion thread for Red Dwarf: Titan Prologue and Part 1: Walverlof.

This is a place for no-holds-barred, detailed, nitty-gritty opinions and theories on everything in the first part of the book. Please try and avoid referencing anything from beyond this part, so that people can visit each thread as they complete each section of the book. And if you haven’t yet read Part 1, get out of here immediately.

Your comments may be used in the DwarfCast Book Club at a future date, so if your point is related to a specific sub-chapter, do mark it clearly.

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5

 

 

Topic

[Warbodog]

Chapter 21

I never felt that Red Dwarf was making thieving-scousers jokes through Lister (even though it probably was, but I always just saw the character), but this is a bit ruder.

Chapter 22

“Lower your voice” is such an Airplane!/Naked Gun gag and I love those gags.

Chapter 24

Topological Paradox technology is brilliant, and could have looked cool on screen as a simple effect. It’s maybe more of a Doctor Who or Hitchhiker’s concept, or even more dreamy fantasy like Labyrinth, but it still fits.

Frankenstein as an active character isn’t something I ever expected, and the fun foreshadowing excuses the oversight that cats aren’t capable of recognising their reflections (obviously everything else in the novel is peer-reviewed hard science).

Great chapter!

[Podey]

I never felt that Red Dwarf was making thieving-scousers jokes through Lister (even though it probably was, but I always just saw the character) 

There was “we went scrumping for cars”, but then like you I never really saw that as a thieving-scouser thing. 

[Warbodog]

Chapter 26

I knew Lister was doing a Terrorform, but that still means he cares <333
Rimmer needs a disguise. I can see where this is going. (Update: Nope, I expected a more foreshadowed high-tech solution than putting things on his head).

Chapter 27

The contemporary historical-inaccuracies gag is also from Doctor Who or something, but more ludicrously exaggerated with this simpleton.

Not sure why they had to name-check the film she saw a boombox in, but I reckon Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (1986) influenced the show at least as much as Blade Runner did, so it gets a shout out.

Obsolete analogue technology saves the day. Did you enjoy that bit in your early-bird bookshop copies?

Chapter 29

Good if depressing reminder about the illusion of freedom to put the humans in their place.

Chapter 30

The fan radio show abridgement might not take too much work.

Chapter 31

Good vegan breakfast dig. They eat fruit, and don’t have other breakfast options, don’t they!!!

[Warbodog]

I had to look up YABA, which is what the Y in Holly stands for. It’s ‘Yet Another Bloody Acronym’.

Thanks, clem!

Somehow – he didn’t know why – he sensed this was an auspicious moment. He straightened up. ‘Now,’ he announced to no-one in particular, ‘we are four.’

I’d obviously recognised the similarities, but this patronisingly helped me to understand that they were acting as kind of quantum-substitutes for the missing cast.

[Ben Saunders]

My book arrived a couple hours ago and I just opened it. Has anybody done this yet:

[tombow]

 Topological Paradox technology is brilliant, and could have looked cool on screen as a simple effect. It’s maybe more of a Doctor Who or Hitchhiker’s concept, or even more dreamy fantasy like Labyrinth, but it still fits. 

it felt to me like something from Neverwhere, but with a Dwarf twist. Mind you, it’s been decades since I read or watched Neverwhere. 

[Warbodog]

Neverwhere might be what I was trying to think of, especially since it’s sewery/subterraneany.

[clem]

I read [Carzon] as David Ross Kryten, but Chris doing the audio book has this Butler-esque inflection to his voice

He’s described as having a ‘gentle mid-Atlantic accent’ when Lister and Rimmer first meet him, but I’m the same – can’t help but hear David Ross. That voice seems to fit Carzon’s naivety perfectly.

[loadoftottnumb]

Why *are* bits in Afrikaans? Is it just that colonised Titan wouldn’t all be English? 

[tombow]

I thought the Hollister/Todhunter dynamic had more unrealised comedy potential than the Petersen/Pear one. They’re basically Jeeves and Wooster.

[loadoftottnumb]

Oh it’s ‘Pear’? I thought it was Per 

[Dave]

They’re basically Jeeves and Wooster.

I got a strong Jeeves and Wooster feel from the Carzon-Rimmer relationship as that developed (and things got more and more absurd).

[Asclepius]

I’m really struggling with this tbh. I know I’m a lot older than when I last read a new Dwarf book, but I’m finding it a chore to sit down and see what happens next. There’s no got-to-keep-reading urgency to it.

The whole bit with Petersen suddenly ‘getting’ art was the nadir so far. Yes, there’s a joke in that he might be really moved by appreciating art…but he wouldn’t have the vocabulary for it that he does in the book. As a joke, it just doesn’t work.

Hollister is playing golf repeatedly. It’s pretty much joke-free.

The Kryten that’s not quite Kryten is so like Kryten that we read him as Kryten (or I do, at least) but because he’s not *quite* Kryten, it just ain’t working. He’s too annoying and precise.

Lister’s written pretty well.

Rimmer seems overly ridiculous – the bit of him doing him repeated salute right in front of the Captain suggests a significant learning difficulty rather than just his usual innate Rimmerness. The bit with people thinking he’s a hologram because a car collision has left an ‘H’ mark on his head is just ridiculous. It stretches belief just too far.

Kochanski feels pretty sound, and her plot is genuinely interesting. But it’s only a small part of the book so far.
The humour feels much more Quanderhorn – OTT, shouty, slightly gross – than Dwarf.
I will persevere. But it’s not working for me.

[Dave]

For me it’s a very cartoony vibe, but I love a lot of that stuff. I thought the Honda gag was inspired.

[Dave]

[Dax101]

I’m only halfway through it, but so far I’d say Rimmer’s characterisation is in the same league as Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers. As the novels went on, he kinda lost that characterisation. But he is very much the same flawed, pathetic Rimmer whose brain couldn’t allow him to enjoy Better than Life without sabotaging him in Infinity and BTL. 

[loadoftottnumb]

Chapter 28: Getting a tad ‘obsessive’ over Listers hometown now. 

Carson is really starting to annoy me.

[Asclepius]

Carson is more copeable now that you’ve pointed out he should be read as David Ross, and not as Kryten. But yeah, he’s a lot too much. All done for Jokes, which really aren’t all landing.

Finally, there seems to be a bit of plot evolving with Rimmer and Lister’s bit. Finally.

Didn’t like the bit where Lister tricks Rimmer into thinking that he actually likes him. It’s been done on TV in Terrorform, and then was neatly skewed in the beautiful Moonlight scene of Promised Land. This throws it back to the 80s. It’s just unkindness. And doesn’t serve a plot point. Nor does it work ad a punchline.

[Dax101]

Well it kinda is a throwback since it’s set in the past. It just makes more sense being a throwback than it would if it was set after all the other series.

[Asclepius]

Well it kinda is a throwback since it’s set in the past. It just makes more sense being a throwback than it would if it was set after all the other series.

True.

It’s just tricky trying to picture this set pre Series 1. Most of the references are of tech that’s familiar to us in 2026. And either Rob or Andrew’s love of Strictly has influenced at least three dances being referenced at this point…

[Rushy]

I can’t tell whether the shameless use of Lost in Space comedy is meant to be a loving homage or outright theft. 

(For context, I’m referring to Rimmer’s use of alliterative insults for machines, the same exact shtick employed by Jonathan Harris on the show. Some of the insults are identical)

[Rushy]

It happens with such frequency that I’m choosing to think of it as shameless theft. Ah well, at least it’s good for a laugh. 

[Warbodog]

It’s just tricky trying to picture this set pre Series 1. Most of the references are of tech that’s familiar to us in 2026. And either Rob or Andrew’s love of Strictly has influenced at least three dances being referenced at this point…

It’s a different universe, so I didn’t get hung up on it. A reboot universe where they would have all been played by different actors younger than most of us!

[Asclepius]

I can’t tell whether the shameless use of Lost in Space comedy is meant to be a loving homage or outright theft. 
(For context, I’m referring to Rimmer’s use of alliterative insults for machines, the same exact shtick employed by Jonathan Harris on the show. Some of the insults are identical)

Sooooo many insults for machines. Feels like a Series 6 cockpit scene, that’s been extended.

[Asclepius]

The writing feels very Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers. And that’s good. But it doesn’t feel as committed to being a novel as Infinity did. A lot less character exploration through narration.

Yes, it’s a lot of “and then what happened was…”

The insights into characters’ thoughts and drives in the first two books remains unparalleled.

[Asclepius]

Finished Part One now.

The climax to it, and the ‘return’ of Kryten feels like it’s trying to plough similar ground to the return of Holly halfway through the Backwards novel, but it has none of the poignancy of that scene. 

[Dave]

Oh, I thought the appearance of Kryten was a really electric moment! One of my favourite parts of the book.

[Podey]

I thought it was interesting that Carzon’s head changed shape to become Kryten’s… it’s made me reevaluate how mechanoids work, introducing the idea that you can adjust the angle of all those edges to create different facial features.

(I’m going with that headcanon explanation because the idea of his head just magically changing shape is silly)

[Dave]

headcanon

[clem]

Put the Series X mask down to a faulty chip.

[Dave]

[Ian Symes]

Hollister appears to be the same character from the show more or less so maybe the name change was just to reduce the number of Franks and/or remind us it’s one universe to the side.

I’ve been thinking about this. Hollister was only given a first name in Series VIII, so it’s not necessarily a conscious “change”. If Rob was either unaware of any post-VI lore, or deliberately chose to ignore it, giving him the name Randolph is just filling in a blank.

[Dave]

I’ve been thinking about this. Hollister was only given a first name in Series VIII, so it’s not necessarily a conscious “change”. If Rob was either unaware of any post-VI lore, or deliberately chose to ignore it, giving him the name Randolph is just filling in a blank.

[Will B]

A few tiny points:

– Interesting that they pick ‘croissant’ for the opening line, and again as part of a joke on page 5. I’ve never thought of croissants as funny. Count Binface asks supporters for the “price of a reasonably priced croissant”. So maybe they are funny. 

– Page 70 “it’s not cheating, Lister, it’s turpitude…It’s what all great men do”. Great line! Too much ‘thicko’ stuff after that though

– I can’t help imagining series 1/2 Rimmer and Lister, I guess because of the pre-accident setting. Then I struggle to imagine how the action scenes would look with a series 1/2 budget  

[Asclepius]

– Page 70 “it’s not cheating, Lister, it’s turpitude…It’s what all great men do”. Great line! Too much ‘thicko’ stuff after that though
Yes, the “thicko” stuff was so dull.

– I can’t help imagining series 1/2 Rimmer and Lister, I guess because of the pre-accident setting. Then I struggle to imagine how the action scenes would look with a series 1/2 budget  
I think the only way of picturing the constantly hysterical and shouting Rimmer is to picture Series 1 Rimmer. As for the action scenes, I struggled to picture them anyway as I found the description in the world-building to not be helpful for building up a mental image of the world. Everything described was so simile-heavy, always going for the next joke, and so NOISY – like Quanderhorn.

Picture the description of Titan compared to the beautiful writing as Lister explores Garbage World in the first book. Outstanding stuff.

[tombow]

amazon price drop – Titan currently £16 with postage

[Richietee]

I am really enjoying this 

I love Rob’s other books and have read Incompetence and Fat so many times I’ve lost count!

I’m getting vibes from both Colony and Incompetence and love how Rob and Andrew’s world building is as I can really visualise how Titan looks!

The tether system is really reminding me of Knuckles Chaotix (gotta have a Sonic connection somewhere)

For some reason I’m visualising Carzon as Butler but with a David Ross style outfit

I can’t wait to see if any fan art of all the new characters is done just to see if they match how we imagine them

[Warbodog]

I never played Chaotix, but I played some beta thing that had that elastic effect with Sonic and Tails.

They reminded me of the I-Yensch bracelets in Farscape, but those connect the wearers’ nervous systems so they share each other’s pain and death (somehow).

[sleepey]

Just finished part 1. It took a few chapters to really grab me, but once they got the pens & went on the run it pretty much took off. There’s some stuff in there I don’t like but it’s not actively dragging things down, just kind of whatever. I do like Carzon, I hope he’s not dead.

To answer a non-question on the first page, yes they’ve been referring to Frankenstein as a male cat in part 1

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

For some reason I’m visualising Carzon as Butler but with a David Ross style outfit 

I’ve said this elsewhere, but I visualised David Ross Kryten when reading, and then Butker when listening to the audio book because Chris does give the character Butler like inflections 

[Moonlight]

I never played Chaotix, but I played some beta thing that had that elastic effect with Sonic and Tails.

One turned into the other. The gimmick is shit. I have much to say about it but this is a thread about Red Dwarf.

[Turk Thrust]

Proloog

Bold to start the book with Themis and without the main crew. There’s a nice sense of threat and drama from the beginning and, as you might expect from Rob, typically grim references towards faeces and masturbation.

[Turk Thrust]

Chapter 1

The HOLLY acronym made me laugh out loud because it’s so ridiculous, but I can understand why it might divide opinion.

Nice to introduce the secondary members of the crew first. I’m sure Rob and Andrew know that most readers would be eager to read about Rimmer and Lister, but describing the other characters builds up anticipation, gives you a full picture of life on board ship and tells us that they will all be a major part of the plot to come.

I don’t find the early Rimmer/Lister moments to be hilarious or earth-shattering, but it’s very comfy to be back with these characters again.

The mention of a 1.5 mile golf hole is the first of several unintentional echoes of Doug’s Dwarf (Series VII’s Blue).

[Turk Thrust]

Chapter 2

Interesting use of the insult “smegwit” which I believe was also in Bodysnatcher.

I particularly like the description of Kochanski’s hen party as a, “chortling gang of dirigible phallus-wagglers.” Possibly the most poetic penis reference that I’ve ever read.

[Turk Thrust]

Chapter 3

Amusing that the theme song exists within the Red Dwarf universe and the perky-voice announcing that “certain death lurks” on Titan has pleasant hints of Morwenna Banks’ lift attendant in Stasis Leak. 

[Turk Thrust]

Chapter 4

A neat sleight of hand here as it’s initially unclear whether Holly seeing two Listers will become a significant part of the plot or is a result of his computer senility.

[Turk Thrust]

Chapter 5

Tex’s head exploding and the cockroaches tidying up the mess feels very Rob and also adds a sense of jeopardy on Titan.

[Turk Thrust]

Chapter 6

It’s in this chapter that I feel the interaction between Rimmer and Lister really comes to life. Rimmer’s increasing exasperation works nicely and you can picture a young Barrie and Charles having a lot of fun with this scene.

[Turk Thrust]

Chapter 7

An oddly detailed description of the sports stadium and Siegfried and … sorry, Tristan and Raymond. Maybe they might get another mention later in the book.

Kochanski suddenly coming from a Yorkshire family is an interesting one, but I guess itmeans that we can come to the character fresh without imagining either Clare or Chloe. (In the lockdown commentaries, Rob mentioned how lucky they were to get Clare, but he also said that she and Craig had zero chemistry. When he was once asked about Series VII, he said that the way that Kochanski was included was a long way from anything he would have done. It’s no surprise that he wanted to take the character in a different direction.)

[Turk Thrust]

Chapter 8

The introduction of Carzon is charming and I feel like Rob and Andrew pulled off the almost impossible here. It could easily have been a case of, “What a pathetic Kryten-knockoff” but it really works to an innocent mechanoid character with the young Rimmer and Lister.

Personally, I quite like the alliterative insults that Rimmer directs towards him. For example,

Pineapple-headed pillock

Gibbering gimp

Lazy Lummox

Metal moron (this one was also in Bodysnatcher)

[Author]

Replies