What would you expect of Red Dwarf XIII?

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  • #227929

    flanl3

    With reassurance that Red Dwarf XIII will happen at every turn despite no actual confirmation that there will be a Red Dwarf XIII, it seems like approximately the appropriate time to start this thread.

    If we do actually get a Red Dwarf XIII, what would you want out of it? Would you want it to have a bit of an arc to it or would you want it to be entirely separate episodes? Would you want it to remain six half-hours? Would you want it to keep to the (mostly) traditional format or try something different for a change?

    Most importantly, in what way should an explosion be forced into the series to enable them to put one in the title sequence?

    #227934

    Hamish

    My god, this is not in fact a Jawscvmcdia thread.

    #227935

    Warbodog

    Could it look less blue, please? I’ll let them sort the rest out themselves.

    #227936

    flanl3

    My god, this is not in fact a Jawscvmcdia thread.

    I learned from the worst.

    #227937

    Jawscvmcdia

    I would actually like to see Rimmer get his end away for once.

    #227939

    quinn_drummer

    I’d like less “moody sets” – they look great, why light them in a such a way as to suggest power failure?

    It’s ironic really given the amount of time given over to how the lighting was achieved on the DVD, which was really interesting if nothing else.

    I don’t mind lose arcs, in the sense of series VI, but I think generally stand alone episodes are better.

    And I know it’s difficult on a small soundstage, but I’d love a Starbug that really fells interconnected again, with a midsection you can see from the cockpit and the crew seamlessly moving between the two.

    I’d love at least one episode that causes a the fandom to collectively shit itself over the controversy it causes.

    #227940

    cwickham

    I would expect it to be broadcast on television.

    #227945

    si

    I’d expect the words ‘Red’ and ‘Dwarf’ to appear onscreen at some point. But that’s just me.

    #227946

    Flap Jack
    • There will be exactly one Rimmer-focused episode and one Kryten-focused episode.
    • The current status of Kochanski will either be the basis of an entire episode, or be mentioned 0 times.
    • Snacky will make an appearance.
    • The episodes will continue to go up on UKTV Play a week early, half-ruining the experience of their release.
    • Either Starbug or Red Dwarf will be exploded.
    • Holly will become a regular character again.
    #227947

    Lily

    All of those seem incredibly likely, except maybe the snacky one.

    Not sure I’d exactly cheer for Norman to be back. I say Norm, as it’s always him coming back. No-one ever seems to consider Hattie and I’ve no idea if she even has any appetite for it.

    #227948

    Pete Part Three

    At least 3 of the episodes will be OK. 1 will be terrible. 1 will be divisive. 1 will be really good.

    #227952

    Dollar Pound

    snacky as regular

    #227953

    Ben Saunders

    Snacky as Holly

    #227955

    Flap Jack

    No-one ever seems to consider Hattie and I’ve no idea if she even has any appetite for it.

    I can’t speak for anyone else, but I always consider Hattie returning over Norman!

    Though I’m also lazy, so I’m just going to quote my own comment I made here a few months ago:

    I love both the Lovett and Hayridge versions of Holly, but if Doug does want to bring Holly back as a regular, then I’d definitely choose Hattie over Norman (or both).

    1. The aforementioned point about Hattie being a nicer, humbler person than Norman.
    2. The Red Dwarf cast is already 4 men, so it’s obviously way better to make the 5th regular a woman.
    3. Hattie’s Holly is already established to have a good group dynamic with Lister, Rimmer, Cat and Kryten all together (though Series VIII probably isn’t Norman’s fault, to be fair).
    4. Norman has already appeared in more episodes than Hattie so far.
    5. Hattie never got to be in a Holly-focused episode as Norman did with Queeg (White Hole is really only half-focused on Holly).
    6. Female Holly has better dramatic range than male Holly. Holly showed believable concern for the crew in episodes like Back to Reality, but Series I-II Holly is pretty much stuck in sarcastic mode.

    Tell me I’m wrong. ;-)

    #227956

    Lily

    I had remembered there was a good discussion over the Hattie/Norm returning as Holly thing previously :)

    However, I would presume Norman far more likely, as didn’t he ask to be in XI/XII but it was too late to write him in, hence just the Skipper appearance?

    #227959

    Ben Saunders

    That is what happened, if I recall.

    I also think Hattie was asked at a convention if she wanted to return and she said not particularly. Being g asked by Doug is a different thing admittedly.

    #227961

    Flap Jack

    I suppose Hattie might have had Series V in mind when she was asked that question, and could consider the idea more if the scripts actually gave her things to do.

    At least, one can dream.

    Someone should ask her again at Dimension Jump this year, and by “someone” I mean Doug Naylor.

    #227982

    International Debris

    I’d like less “moody sets” – they look great, why light them in a such a way as to suggest power failure?

    Agreed – XI and XII were a dramatic improvement over the look of X in general, but I think the sleeping quarters scenes were just too dark. The odd one to suggest night-time, fair enough. But it basically looks like they spend their entire time in semi-darkness, which made it feel less typically lived in.

    A dramatic redressing of the set would be nice, too. Not a rebuild, but maybe a different colour-scheme, possibly a change of the science room, some general changes. Make it look noticeably different without having to spend tons on an entirely new design.

    I’m hoping it takes cues from M-Corp and the first half of Skipper in particular, having fewer guest parts and more plots that blend interesting science ideas with strong character stuff and a touch of absurdity. XII had three episodes in a row featuring encounters with space ships/stations featuring a sizeable cast of characters, with those characters threatening the main cast’s lives. I much, much prefer the weird anomaly approach of Skipper, or the more insidious feel of M-Corp, in terms of providing a threat. And both felt conceptually quite fresh, doing different things with the show. The promotional shot of an old aged Lister in that white room immediately made me excited: it just screams of ‘what the hell could lead to this situation?’

    Ideally a bit more heart. X had a pretty good balance of character stuff and plot for the most part, but the sympathetic sides of the characters were seen far less in XI and XII. Despite my praise for them, the two episodes I mentioned just above could have been improved with a few tweaks – old Lister considering his mortality more, or Rimmer coming back because of a nice reason than resenting Lister’s success – and it’s that kind of thing that I’d love to come back into the show again. Red Dwarf has never quite brought me to tears, but Holoship, Out of Time and The Beginning are all examples of how it can genuinely touch me. I want to REALLY feel for the characters again.

    #228093

    clem

    > Ideally a bit more heart. X had a pretty good balance of character stuff and plot for the most part, but the sympathetic sides of the characters were seen far less in XI and XII.

    Doug doesn’t seem to mind writing Rimmer as a proper bastard these days, worse than ever, when there’s a decent laugh to be gotten out of it. I loved him in Officer Rimmer, but also can’t help feeling it flew in the face of the way his character has changed over the years, and the revelation in The Beginning. I’m thinking of “I bet your gran would be proud” in Mechocracy as well, and of course Howard’s death in Trojan. That really was beyond the pale imo, and not funny. I wasn’t bothered by Rimmer’s reasons for coming back in Skipper, but I think there should have been more of a reason for him wanting to leave in the first place, and his goodbye “speech” was jarring.

    XI and XII have their moments, though. Siliconia I think has a lot of heart, in Rimmer’s fish speech and the Lister/Kryten bits. I even think Lister is quite sweet in the Cat’s dream at the end of CoW, even though it’s undercut by the revelation that it’s a dream, and the lady cats.

    #228094

    Dax101

    I’d like less “moody sets” – they look great, why light them in a such a way as to suggest power failure?

    Didn’t Ed Moore say they were trying to recapture the series 5 lighting?

    #228095

    Dax101

    No-one ever seems to consider Hattie and I’ve no idea if she even has any appetite for it.

    I think at this point even if Hattie wanted too it doesn’t seem like Doug is all that interested in bringing Hattie back.

    #228096

    Ben Saunders

    Series V was very dark, cue Danny complaining that nobody can see him in the commentary

    #228099

    Dax101

    Quote from Ed Moore from twitter

    “I didn’t shoot series X. I wanted to make it look like series IV/V/VI which were much darker.”

    https://twitter.com/edmoore/status/791734911023583232

    #228120

    International Debris

    Siliconia I think has a lot of heart, in Rimmer’s fish speech

    Yes, that was one of my favourite scenes in the whole of XI and XII. I think Siliconia and Krysis worked so well for me because they’re the two warmest episodes of each run, despite neither being the funniest. I’d just love more of it – most episodes between Me^2 and Nanarchy have at least a bit of that in them, but a lot of XI and XII seemed to be pretty lacking.

    #228124

    clem

    I was going to mention Krysis. It’s an odd one because Kryten’s “love” speech kind of comes out of nowhere, like he’s had this big epiphany off screen.

    #228153

    International Debris

    Yes, it’s one of the strong cases for XI & XII episodes needing to be 35-ish minutes rather than 29.

    #228155

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    You’ve hit the nail on the head with the warmth thing. It’s why I’ll always have a soft spot for Back To Earth (Part Three) – the only time Red Dwarf has ever moved me to tears. (Insert joke about Timewave here.)

    #228163

    flanl3

    Moved to tears? I thought you said boob on her rear!

    #228165

    Dax101

    I was going to mention Krysis. It’s an odd one because Kryten’s “love” speech kind of comes out of nowhere, like he’s had this big epiphany off screen.

    He could have easily have had a realization right there and then.

    Personally i ain’t sure whether the love speech is as smart as Doug thought it was or whether he just needed some speech that sounded smart.

    Perhaps its because it comes out of no where that it feels abit disconnected

    #228179

    International Debris

    Yes, for all of BtE’s faults, lack of heart is not one of them. I’ll happily say the same about VII. Give Dear Dave a different final punchline and there’s a nice emotional character plot in there. So it’s something Doug can do, and is obviously very willing to. I think he probably just had too many ideas in XI and XII and the warmth ended up with the short straw a lot.

    #228185

    Dave

    Honestly, I think it boils down to taking the characters seriously and treating them sincerely. And as much as that stems from the writing, I think the performances are a big part of it too. The broadness of X-XII in terms of the way the characters are performed makes it harder to really care about them, I think.

    It would be lovely to see more sincere character work, but I’m not sure it fits with the current version of the show, sadly.

    #228202

    clem

    > The broadness of X-XII in terms of the way the characters are performed makes it harder to really care about them, I think.

    I think so too. They’ve toned it down since X though. I was definitely happier with the main cast’s performances in XI and XII. Sometimes it depends on what the script calls for, of course. I think Chris is great in Officer Rimmer because it really feels like that’s Rimmer being over the top to lord it over the others and revelling in his new found power, rather than Chris giving an overly broad performance.

    #228207

    Katydid

    I’m almost tempted to say I’d like to see more CGI than models in XIII, given how iffy the models have often been in XI/XII and how fantastic the CG has been.

    #228243

    Jawscvmcdia

    I would like to see a return of the “positive viruses” but not just limited to luck and the “sexual magnetism” viruses as was the case in Quarantine (and later Back in the Red). Maybe Doug could expand on the range of positive viruses.

    #228248

    Pete Part Three

    I would like to see something original.

    #228252

    bloodteller

    i would like to see rimmer not behave like an absolute bellend for the entire series

    #228253

    bloodteller

    also maybe some sense of purpose again? in I-V they’re trying to get back to Earth, in VI-VII they’re trying to get back to Red Dwarf, in VIII i don’t know what the fuck they’re trying to do, in X they’re looking for Kochanski. but what are they trying to do in XI-XII? their motive isn’t really clear at any point, and it’s like “well what are they even trying to accomplish anymore”

    #228259

    Flap Jack

    You say “in I-V they’re trying to get back to Earth”, but are they? Past Series 2 I’m not sure they do any work to achieve this goal, and even in Series 1 and 2 it’s maybe only half the episodes that make any kind of focus out of it.

    In Series III-V, getting back to Earth is barely mentioned, and their goal seems to pretty much be just to carry on with their lives. In that regard, Series XI-XII is most like the best era of the show!

    Also, “gotta find Kochanski” isn’t really a major goal in Series X AFAIC. They only mention it once an episode, and they never actively look for her. Lister and Rimmer’s attempts to better themselves professionally were closer to being a series-wide goal. Even “get an automatic tea-stirrer” was a higher priority.

    #228260

    Pete Part Three

    The only time Lister mentions getting back to Earth in Series IV is in White Hole. And the only mention of Earth in Series V is in reference to sealife.

    The aim of getting back to Earth got shelved in VI, and the sense of purpose went out the window in Nanarchy, when they idly gave up the search for Red Dwarf to get Lister a new arm by. (Sure, that worked out but they weren’t to know that).

    Final episode: “The End Again”. Lister reaches the end of 60 and starts to confront the worrying possibility that he won’t see Earth, or if he does, he’ll be too old to truly enjoy it. He starts to weigh up the options of going into Stasis and being awoken when they finally get there…or accepting that he’ll die on Red Dwarf. Eventually, he decides to take the Stasis route, with the unhappy realisation that he may never be woken up if Earth has been described. Rimmer and Lister say an emotional farewelll to each other as they realise what tbey’ve meant to each other, and how they’ve kept each going, even where they weren’t actually going anywhere.. Episode ends on Lister frozen in Stasis booth, waving goodbye with, a tear paused as it rolls down his cheek.

    Radio Times describes it as a “laugh riot”.

    #228275

    International Debris

    I prefer my idea of Lister and Cat dying of old age and Rimmer and Kryten having to decide whether to turn themselves off or not.

    #228281

    bloodteller

    >You say “in I-V they’re trying to get back to Earth”, but are they? Past Series 2 I’m not sure they do any work to achieve this goal, and even in Series 1 and 2 it’s maybe only half the episodes that make any kind of focus out of it.
    In Series III-V, getting back to Earth is barely mentioned, and their goal seems to pretty much be just to carry on with their lives.

    oh sure, but throughout I-V it always feels like they’re on some sort of continuous journey, at least for me. through I-III they only encounter one derelict, and so when IV-V comes around the various ships they come across feels like they’re sort of beginning to wander through the ruins of the long-dead human race and you at least get the feeling they’re heading towards something. XI-XII doesn’t give off this same feeling for some reason, i don’t know why.

    #228284

    flanl3

    XI feels to me like everyone is finally accepting that the human race will remain in the past. In every single one you really start to feel the effects of the human race finally being gone. In XII weird shit happens.

    #228393

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    Doug takes to the stage later this year at DJ ‘Today I’m not going to announce two new series of Red Dwarf….I’m going to announce we’ve been cancelled….’ – mic drop, exit stage left.

    #228394

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    Oh if RD13 does come. Holly please and a proper non broom cupboard sized Starbug set with a full mid section. Yes yes I know so Holly it is then.

    #228396

    bloodteller

    i’d quite like to see some episodes with actual endings

    #228406

    Katydid

    I’d like there to be six good episodes instead of five good episodes and one crap episode.

    #228420

    PFMC84

    A new bunk room and another tweak to the outfits for Kryten and Rimmer. Those bloody swollen hand gloves on Robert look awful, and we’ve had 3 series in a row with Rimmer in blue. Try a new colour. The show got a huge redesign every few years, I think it’s time for that now. Perhaps get rid of the medi-bay and have an all purpose drive room again. And of course, a tweak to the cockpit of Starbug and an open door into a mid-section which gets used and isn’t a corridor redressed with boxes and green lighting.

    #228422

    NoFro

    ^What he said^

    #228423

    Dax101

    The blue is what highlights that Rimmer is a hard light Hologram.

    Admittedly the show has kinda forgotten the days when a Hologram couldn’t touch anything as most of the time every Hologram is either hard light now or the not being able to touch aspect is just forgotten about all together.

    I like the blue costume personally.

    #228424

    Dax101

    I dunno what i expect but id like Doug to cut back on the caffeine just a little bit, yes new and different ideas are good but too many in one half hour episode doesn’t make it clever… it just makes it messy.

    Oh and we know the cat is dumb but he doesn’t have to be Dougal from Father Ted dumb to be funny.

    #228425

    Lily

    I don’t buy the whole colour coded soft/hard light thing. Other than being a convenient visual indication that something about him had changed, I don’t see any reason why he’s tied to that colour.

    He’s always worn all manner of different outfits and uniforms when the occasional demands it, you can’t tell me that he can never wear red or green again.

    #228426

    Jawscvmcdia

    >you can’t tell me that he can never wear red or green again.

    HE WILL NEVER WEAR RED OR GREEN AGAIN. There, I just told you.

    #228428

    International Debris

    The blue is what highlights that Rimmer is a hard light Hologram.

    Out of Time would suggest otherwise.

    #228430

    Ben Saunders

    That yellow was so fucking ugly I hope we never see it again

    Also Rimmer has worn other clothes in 9-12 already like in Officer Rimmer and Skipper for example, and they weren’t blue. Also Howard Rimmer’s clothes weren’t blue. They don’t need to be blue.

    #228431

    Dax101

    The audience associations blue with hard light.

    Probably hasn’t helped that they have highlighted it by acknowledging he was wearing red in gunmen because his hard light drive wasn’t on and in entangled his outfit turned red when he switched to soft light mode and then back to blue for hard light.

    stirs the pot abit to change that now.

    #228433

    Dax101

    Its like how they have the seating for Starbug and Blue Midget where the crew seem to alway sit in the associated series 6 positions where Cats always front left, Lister is always front right, with Rimmer back-right and Kryten back-left

    Now thats not how Series 3 to 5 was because they never had seating positions but now they seem to be associated with those sitting position and people have come to expect that now every time now.

    I know Kryten was sitting in the Driving seat in Krisis but thats not exactly a sign they have suddenly decided to switch things up abit.

    #228434

    Ben Saunders

    The line in Gunmen was Grant Naylor overthinking it tbh, I’m not quite sure how they managed to give him the wrong costume though. The bit in Entangled was some nice fanwank. Yes that does sort of muddy the waters a bit, but there are so many things in Red Dwarf that have changed with little to no explanation and I feel like changing Rimmer’s colour isn’t going to confuse anybody at this stage of the game, especially since all holograms have been hard light for about 20 years. It doesn’t need to be red – it could be green or purple or yellow, none of those colours have the connotations of soft light attributed to them via Gunmen and Entangled.

    Them having their own seats is just an indication that they’ve all got their roles within the team and it took ’til 5 to really iron that out, I would say. I don’t really want them to change the seating positions particularly and don’t see any reason why they would.

    #228436

    quinn_drummer

    Those searing positions are true except in the Blue Midget scenes in The Beginning, which always bugged me.

    #228438

    flanl3

    I think Rimmer would work in a black/dark uniform if Kryten’s costume got a little lighter and Lister returned to his t-shirt theme.

    #228440

    bloodteller

    i don’t mind seeing Rimmer in blue but i wish they’d change him out of that tunic, i’m sick of seeing it.

    #228441

    NoFro

    So let me get this right, soft light can be anything but hard light HAS to be blue… no not buying that. And when we’re saying the audience associate blue with hard light – at least 95% of the audience probably don’t associate any particular look with Rimmer being hard light. People who go on Dwarf fan sites POSSIBLY do but more casual viewers probably don’t give what Rimmer’s wearing a second thought.

    #228443

    Lily

    I doubt that the majority of the audience even remember the whole soft light / hard light thing. Even when he was soft there was a bunch of inappropriate touching of things anyway.

    I preferred the earlier series when it comes to clothing. Both Rimmer and Lister had a naturally varied wardrobe. Casual comfy stuff for chilling in the bunks, jackets etc for going out and about in. Rimmer’s captain emerald outift had different levels of formality, with the t-shirt underneath, smooth jacket or big padded jacket for going out.

    More recent stuff it’s like they’re cosplay of their own characters. Like we wouldn’t recognise them if Rimmer wasn’t in a blue tunic or Lister in a leather jacket. ALL THE TIME. I mean, only weird creepy people wear the same thing every day. Looking at you Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg.

    #228444

    clem

    It does irk me a bit that Rimmer’s in his blue VII outfit rather than red or green in the locker room game flashback in Blue, but not really because he’s soft light. It looks wrong especially because Lister’s in his old III jacket.

    #228445

    Ben Saunders

    >Even when he was soft there was a bunch of inappropriate touching of things anyway.
    No comment.

    But yes he fluffed his pillows a couple times in the first two series and stuff like sitting down and lying down just doesn’t really make sense. He also shuffles around boxes and walls in for example Polymorph when really he could walk right through them or even hide in them.

    Wasn’t Lister in his III jacket for BtE or X? I thought I remembered Howard Burden mentioning that.

    The biggest Rimmer-style-offence in BtE was his hair, to be fair.

    #228446

    Dax101

    I preferred the earlier series when it comes to clothing. Both Rimmer and Lister had a naturally varied wardrobe. Casual comfy stuff for chilling in the bunks, jackets etc for going out and about in. Rimmer’s captain emerald outift had different levels of formality, with the t-shirt underneath, smooth jacket or big padded jacket for going out.

    Well Rimmer was wearing a blue dressing gown in samara which is some what similar to the early shows like series 3 where he wore green PJs.

    Rimmer also changed to his nostalgic admiral outfit in XI… its just moreofte consistent for Rimmer to have a consistent colour scheme.

    #228447

    Dax101

    The biggest Rimmer-style-offence in BtE was his hair, to be fair.

    I do think the current outfit is more flattering on Chris as it makes him look slimmer and younger then he did in BTE… although that could be maybe down to the hair

    #228448

    Dave

    Why aren’t hardlight holograms just generated naked so that they can wear real clothes instead of holographic ones? Logically, hardlight Rimmer could wear anything he liked, even if it (gasp) wasn’t blue.

    #228449

    flanl3

    Can Rimmer take off his tunic, or would it require its own separate light bee?

    #228451

    bloodteller

    >More recent stuff it’s like they’re cosplay of their own characters. Like we wouldn’t recognise them if Rimmer wasn’t in a blue tunic or Lister in a leather jacket. ALL THE TIME. I mean, only weird creepy people wear the same thing every day. Looking at you Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg.

    even in VIII they had more costume variety than XI/XII and they were in purple boiler suits for half of that

    #228452

    bloodteller

    lister’s jacket must smell really awful if he’s been wearing it every day for the past eight years

    #228453

    Dave

    Can Rimmer take off his tunic, or would it require its own separate light bee?

    Did Ace Rimmer’s wig require its own separate light bee?

    #228454

    Lily

    Considering the light bee has clearly been upgraded at some point, to the level it could survive a 6 month trek across Roman Europe without a recharge … then yeah sure, it can project a separate piece of clothing.

    #228455

    flanl3

    Is Ace Rimmer’s wig real then?

    #228456

    flanl3

    Oh, or that

    #228457

    bloodteller

    >It does irk me a bit that Rimmer’s in his blue VII outfit rather than red or green in the locker room game flashback in Blue, but not really because he’s soft light. It looks wrong especially because Lister’s in his old III jacket.

    isn’t the continuity explanation for this that it’s just lister misremembering things? i always took that to be why there’s loads of continuity errors in the flashback sequences in Ouroboros (like how he’s coming back from shore leave on Mimas with the cat even though it’s stated in The End he got it on Titan, and why the crew are all in shit blue suits)

    #228459

    Dax101

    Ace Rimmers wig was real untll series 7… then it was a wig.

    #228460

    Ben Saunders

    I always thought Ace Rimmer’s wig was an actual wig he bought in a shop, not a holowig

    #228462

    Jawscvmcdia

    >I always thought Ace Rimmer’s wig was an actual wig he bought in a shop, not a holowig

    Yes, I can just imagine now Ace just nipping down to his local corner shop or supermarket (wonder if he shops at Tesco or Aldi?) and buying a wig so that he can give to his successor.

    #228467

    si

    I think Rimmer would work in a black/dark uniform

    And a goatee beard.

    #228471

    Flap Jack

    It’s probably best we don’t bring up how Rimmer can be sustained for 6 months without a recharge, because if that’s true then there’s absolutely no reason not to revive other members of the crew as holograms too.

    Seriously, I can understand them not doing that because Rimmer refuses to be switched off or because doing it would significantly impair Red Dwarf’s performance, but once it was established in Series VI that Rimmer could be maintained by Starbug alone – before he got his hardlight upgrade, even – those excuses went out the window.

    I’m so surprised that Doug/Rob never put in a throwaway line about all of the other holo-disks being destroyed, that I’m wondering if they actually did and I’m just not remembering it.

    #228477

    quinn_drummer

    Maybe they were destroyed when Confidence blew up taking his helmet off?

    Though that wouldn’t tally with them interviewing crew members in Holoship

    #228480

    Lily

    I always presumed the Holoship interviews were with ex-Holoship crew. The ones that had been turned off when someone better had come along?

    #228482

    quinn_drummer

    Oh I’d never thought of that …

    But if that were the case, why wouldn’t they be wearing Holoship uniform? They are all wearing variants of Rimmer’s uniform.

    #228488

    International Debris

    I preferred the earlier series when it comes to clothing. Both Rimmer and Lister had a naturally varied wardrobe. Casual comfy stuff for chilling in the bunks, jackets etc for going out and about in. Rimmer’s captain emerald outift had different levels of formality, with the t-shirt underneath, smooth jacket or big padded jacket for going out.

    More recent stuff it’s like they’re cosplay of their own characters. Like we wouldn’t recognise them if Rimmer wasn’t in a blue tunic or Lister in a leather jacket. ALL THE TIME. I mean, only weird creepy people wear the same thing every day.

    This. The Cat is the only character who behaves remotely normally when it comes to clothes these days.

    Holoship

    There’s no logic here at all. I can’t imagine they’d take on Holoship crew members, but if it was Red Dwarf crew then surely they’d go with Petersen, Selby, Chen, Kochanski, Hollister… one of them would have said yes, surely? Instead of trawling through people they never even met.

    #228490

    Ben Saunders

    Do you think any attempt was made at getting familiar faces back for that scene? I think the jokes of that woman being repulsed by what the guys do and the guy being incredibly handsome wouldn’t work with previous cast members, and might have been the point of the scene from inception

    #228491

    bloodteller

    >This. The Cat is the only character who behaves remotely normally when it comes to clothes these days.

    what about kryten?

    #228492

    Lily

    >But if that were the case, why wouldn’t they be wearing Holoship uniform? They are all wearing variants of Rimmer’s uniform.

    Huh, yeah. Good point. I guess I only thought they were ex-holoship as they were ‘good’ crew. But I guess Dwarf must have had intelligent competent crew somewhere. We only saw Lister and his mates.

    #228506

    Flap Jack

    If Holoship isn’t enough evidence that they still have the holo-disks, then there’s also Bodyswap.

    The copy of Officer Brown’s mind they put into Lister’s body is surely from the same source as the holograms, and the fact they can put Rimmer’s mind inside Lister’s body too pretty much proves it.

    Although… now a question about Bodyswap occurs to me: why do they make Lister’s mind inhabit a Rimmer hologram when they could just put him in a Lister hologram (similar to how Rimmer could become Kochanski in Balance of Power)? I think the ‘H’ and the outfit choice would be enough to tell them apart…

    OK, forgetting that point, let’s say: some of the holo-disks were destroyed after Me-2, including all of the obvious people they would choose first to resurrect but leaving enough people to interview in Holoship, then the rest of the holo-disks were accidentally destroyed later, at some point between Only The Good… and Back to Earth (Or before Psirens, assuming that everyone in Series VIII was too stupid to make new backups while the crew were alive again).

    #228507

    flanl3

    Chris Barrie as the voice of Rimmer, Craig Charles as Lister and body of Rimmer

    #228509

    Ben Saunders

    >why do they make Lister’s mind inhabit a Rimmer hologram when they could just put him in a Lister hologram
    That wouldn’t be as funny and you’d have to do a lot of complicated splitscreen work, and Chris Barrie would be pissed that he was being sidelined for an entire episode x

    Holodisks being destroyed in Only The Good… would be an easy thing to pretend happened.

    Is Lister’s mind (the backup they use to restore his memories after M-Corp) stored in the same place as Officer Brown’s was? Is that on holodisk, or just on a shipwide backup?

    #228521

    quinn_drummer

    Wait I got it.

    Nanobots reconstructed the original ship and crew. Original ship doesn’t have the holodiscs yet. Job done.

    #228522

    Katydid

    The blue is what highlights that Rimmer is a hard light Hologram.

    We are long, long, LONG past the point where that distinction matters. Rimmer’s been solid for six series now, nobody is going to get confused about his tangibility if he changes color.

    #228524

    Jawscvmcdia

    Maybe Rimmer just really likes the colour blue?

    #228526

    Katydid

    I think Chris Barrie is around the right age for them to break out the yellow quilted jacket.

    #228528

    Pete Part Three

    I think Chris Barrie is around the right age for them to bring back as a Hologram.

    I’m sorry; I must have bypassed my Good Taste Chip.

    #228536

    Katydid

    G&T hasn’t had a Good Taste Chip since we swapped it out for Spare Head 2.

    #228546

    Flap Jack

    Is Lister’s mind (the backup they use to restore his memories after M-Corp) stored in the same place as Officer Brown’s was? Is that on holodisk, or just on a shipwide backup?

    I’d guess so. It seems like each crew member gets their own external hard drive, and sometimes those hard drives remain constantly connected to the central computer for quick access and blending of hologrammatic assets, and sometimes Rimmer unplugs them and hides them in a cupboard to be a prick.

    It could be that the holo-data is not stored on the main computer at all and the holo-disks are the only copies, but it could also be that holo-data is stored on both the main computer and in disk-based backups, and Rimmer deleted some/all of the original hologram data in Confidence & Paranoia, because he is a prick.

    #228547

    clem

    It doesn’t even make sense for them to still have their own voices when they’re in each other’s bodies in Bodyswap does it?

    #228551

    Ben Saunders

    Interesting how Skipper implies that mind backups for hologrammatic projection are performed manually, since Lister’s last one was at 23. I always assumed Rimmer remembered everything right up until the moment of his (first) death, but I guess it’s slightly less horrifying not to remember something like that.

    #228554

    flanl3

    It does make sense for them to mostly have their own voices, since an individual voice is some anatomy and a lot of how you use it.

    #228555

    Ben Saunders

    Have they done body transplants irl yet? I’m interested to see how the voice changes. Obviously going from a male to female body would change your voice somewhat (right?) and man to man might have less of an effect.

    #228556

    flanl3

    You do get to keep your head in one

    #228559

    Katydid

    Interesting how Skipper implies that mind backups for hologrammatic projection are performed manually, since Lister’s last one was at 23. I always assumed Rimmer remembered everything right up until the moment of his (first) death, but I guess it’s slightly less horrifying not to remember something like that.

    They clearly didn’t think the process through until later. The US pilot has hologram Rimmer saying the last thing he remembers being having his brain scanned, but then later they still recycle the joke about him saying what death feels like.

    Call me crazy, but I’m starting to suspect that the US pilot was kind of a confused pile of rubbish.

    #228561

    clem

    > they still recycle the joke about him saying what death feels like.

    I’ve always took that to mean what it feels like to be dead, rather than actually dying.

    #228562

    Katydid

    Either way, they clearly had Rimmer remembering up to his death at first.

    #228563

    flanl3

    Perhaps the leak/experiment gone wrong knocked out the holodisk recording system. Before the leak, it was recording constantly, so Lister’s last backup was as he entered stasis. The reason why he did his routine from The End in M-Corp is probably just because that’s what he does to annoy Rimmer when he’s 23, it wasn’t a one-time thing.

    #228565

    Dave

    Interesting how Skipper implies that mind backups for hologrammatic projection are performed manually,

    I always took this to be the case, probably because the first book describes it this way – there’s the whole bit with Petersen being drunk when he gets his done, meaning that if he ever came back as an hologram he’d have a horrendous hangover.

    #228568

    bloodteller

    >The US pilot has hologram Rimmer saying the last thing he remembers being having his brain scanned

    ???? the line is “i was biting on a stick in the medical room…then there was a white flash….and i died. oh god, i’m dead” which is surely him recovering in the medical unit after his failed exam and then getting hit by the radiation leak.

    #228569

    Plastic Percy

    They mention that the escape pod from Rimmerworld has solar accelerators aboard which should provide Rimmer with all the energy he needs to power his hard light drive. Presumably they were able to salvage it when they rescued Rimmer later and it solved all his energy needs.

    #228572

    Katydid

    ???? the line is “i was biting on a stick in the medical room…then there was a white flash….and i died. oh god, i’m dead” which is surely him recovering in the medical unit after his failed exam and then getting hit by the radiation leak.

    I took that to be a DNA test or some shit to replicate him as a hologram.

    #228573

    Katydid

    Clearly I am projecting logic onto a poorly thought-out mess. Carry on.

    #228578

    bloodteller

    i mean he later recognises kryten when they find him so his hologram must have been after they met him.

    i think it’s meant to be that his hologram is from straight after his death, given that he explicitly states he remembers dying

    #228609

    Ben Saunders

    If a disabled person was brought back as a hologram, would they “fix” the disability? If it was a stutter, social anxiety, a broken leg, brain damage? Would it be considered ethical to “fix” someone when they were dead? Presumably you could get (posthumous) consent from them.

    #228610

    Ben Saunders

    I was about to ask if disability has been cured by the time of Red Dwarf, but ironically enough Cured shows the answer to be no, as the crew aren’t suspicious of somebody being in a wheelchair.

    #228615

    Flap Jack

    My take is that they would be able to fix a hologram’s pre-mortem physical disabilities if they desired but not their mental illnesses, what with brains being inordinately complex and holograms’ minds just being wholesale copies of them.

    I assume that holograms could be given virtual treatments, at least.

    Also, it’s pretty strange that physical disabilities haven’t been cured in the Red Dwarf universe, because apparently even cleaning robots come with nanobots which are capable not only of rebuilding missing limbs, but of invoking the power of Satan to bring people from ancient history back to life.

    #228616

    Ben Saunders

    >but not their mental illnesses, what with brains being inordinately complex and holograms’ minds just being wholesale copies of them.
    What about things like draining Rimmer’s negativity in Trojan, or loading in his Charisma etc in Psirens? If you can delete negativity can you delete schizophrenia?

    #228621

    Warbodog

    Personality tuck machine in Can of Worms.

    #228622

    Flap Jack

    What about things like draining Rimmer’s negativity in Trojan, or loading in his Charisma etc in Psirens? If you can delete negativity can you delete schizophrenia?

    Personality tuck machine in Can of Worms.

    These seem like pretty good examples of how mental illnesses could be virtually treated, but not necessarily removed outright.

    IMO, they should only be able to treat mental illnesses in holograms to the extent that they theoretically could treat them in living human beings, so mood alterations or experimental personality shifts are doable, but you can’t just move BodyDysmorphicDisorder.exe to the Recycle Bin.

    #228647

    flanl3

    Why, in Cured, were the crew baffled that four people could be brought back when they literally witnessed it happening to 1167 people?

    #228654

    Ben Saunders

    Because Series VIII took place in an alternate universe where Red Dwarf was a farce

    #228685

    Pete Part Three

    Death is now the handicap it used to be in the old days.

    #228689

    bloodteller

    >Why, in Cured, were the crew baffled that four people could be brought back when they literally witnessed it happening to 1167 people?

    to be fair, it’s a lot more impressive to revive Hitler and Stalin than Selby and Chen.

    #228690

    Dave

    Not so impressive when you’ve already met Hitler. And a droid Hitler.

    #228696

    Ben Saunders

    Is it really more impressive to revive somebody from 3,000,200 years ago than just 3,000,005?

    #228995

    Dollar Pound

    iguana call back

    #228996

    Dollar Pound

    jump cuts

    #228997

    Dollar Pound

    no rice

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