What would you expect of Red Dwarf XIII?

[flanl3]

With reassurance that Red Dwarf XIII will happen at every turn despite no actual confirmation that there will be a Red Dwarf XIII, it seems like approximately the appropriate time to start this thread.

If we do actually get a Red Dwarf XIII, what would you want out of it? Would you want it to have a bit of an arc to it or would you want it to be entirely separate episodes? Would you want it to remain six half-hours? Would you want it to keep to the (mostly) traditional format or try something different for a change?

Most importantly, in what way should an explosion be forced into the series to enable them to put one in the title sequence?

Topic

[Hamish]

My god, this is not in fact a Jawscvmcdia thread.

[Warbodog]

Could it look less blue, please? I’ll let them sort the rest out themselves.

[flanl3]

My god, this is not in fact a Jawscvmcdia thread.

I learned from the worst.

[Jawscvmcdia]

I would actually like to see Rimmer get his end away for once.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I’d like less “moody sets” – they look great, why light them in a such a way as to suggest power failure?

It’s ironic really given the amount of time given over to how the lighting was achieved on the DVD, which was really interesting if nothing else.

I don’t mind lose arcs, in the sense of series VI, but I think generally stand alone episodes are better.

And I know it’s difficult on a small soundstage, but I’d love a Starbug that really fells interconnected again, with a midsection you can see from the cockpit and the crew seamlessly moving between the two.

I’d love at least one episode that causes a the fandom to collectively shit itself over the controversy it causes.

[cwickham]

I would expect it to be broadcast on television.

[si]

I’d expect the words ‘Red’ and ‘Dwarf’ to appear onscreen at some point. But that’s just me.

[Flap Jack]

• There will be exactly one Rimmer-focused episode and one Kryten-focused episode.
• The current status of Kochanski will either be the basis of an entire episode, or be mentioned 0 times.
• Snacky will make an appearance.
• The episodes will continue to go up on UKTV Play a week early, half-ruining the experience of their release.
• Either Starbug or Red Dwarf will be exploded.
• Holly will become a regular character again.

[Lily]

All of those seem incredibly likely, except maybe the snacky one.

Not sure I’d exactly cheer for Norman to be back. I say Norm, as it’s always him coming back. No-one ever seems to consider Hattie and I’ve no idea if she even has any appetite for it.

[Pete Part Three]

At least 3 of the episodes will be OK. 1 will be terrible. 1 will be divisive. 1 will be really good.

[Dollar Pound]

snacky as regular

[Ben Saunders]

Snacky as Holly

[Flap Jack]

No-one ever seems to consider Hattie and I’ve no idea if she even has any appetite for it.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I always consider Hattie returning over Norman!

Though I’m also lazy, so I’m just going to quote my own comment I made here a few months ago:

I love both the Lovett and Hayridge versions of Holly, but if Doug does want to bring Holly back as a regular, then I’d definitely choose Hattie over Norman (or both).

1. The aforementioned point about Hattie being a nicer, humbler person than Norman.
2. The Red Dwarf cast is already 4 men, so it’s obviously way better to make the 5th regular a woman.
3. Hattie’s Holly is already established to have a good group dynamic with Lister, Rimmer, Cat and Kryten all together (though Series VIII probably isn’t Norman’s fault, to be fair).
4. Norman has already appeared in more episodes than Hattie so far.
5. Hattie never got to be in a Holly-focused episode as Norman did with Queeg (White Hole is really only half-focused on Holly).
6. Female Holly has better dramatic range than male Holly. Holly showed believable concern for the crew in episodes like Back to Reality, but Series I-II Holly is pretty much stuck in sarcastic mode.

Tell me I’m wrong. ;-)

[Lily]

I had remembered there was a good discussion over the Hattie/Norm returning as Holly thing previously :)

However, I would presume Norman far more likely, as didn’t he ask to be in XI/XII but it was too late to write him in, hence just the Skipper appearance?

[Ben Saunders]

That is what happened, if I recall.

I also think Hattie was asked at a convention if she wanted to return and she said not particularly. Being g asked by Doug is a different thing admittedly.

[Flap Jack]

I suppose Hattie might have had Series V in mind when she was asked that question, and could consider the idea more if the scripts actually gave her things to do.

At least, one can dream.

Someone should ask her again at Dimension Jump this year, and by “someone” I mean Doug Naylor.

[International Debris]

I’d like less “moody sets” – they look great, why light them in a such a way as to suggest power failure?

Agreed – XI and XII were a dramatic improvement over the look of X in general, but I think the sleeping quarters scenes were just too dark. The odd one to suggest night-time, fair enough. But it basically looks like they spend their entire time in semi-darkness, which made it feel less typically lived in.

A dramatic redressing of the set would be nice, too. Not a rebuild, but maybe a different colour-scheme, possibly a change of the science room, some general changes. Make it look noticeably different without having to spend tons on an entirely new design.

I’m hoping it takes cues from M-Corp and the first half of Skipper in particular, having fewer guest parts and more plots that blend interesting science ideas with strong character stuff and a touch of absurdity. XII had three episodes in a row featuring encounters with space ships/stations featuring a sizeable cast of characters, with those characters threatening the main cast’s lives. I much, much prefer the weird anomaly approach of Skipper, or the more insidious feel of M-Corp, in terms of providing a threat. And both felt conceptually quite fresh, doing different things with the show. The promotional shot of an old aged Lister in that white room immediately made me excited: it just screams of ‘what the hell could lead to this situation?’

Ideally a bit more heart. X had a pretty good balance of character stuff and plot for the most part, but the sympathetic sides of the characters were seen far less in XI and XII. Despite my praise for them, the two episodes I mentioned just above could have been improved with a few tweaks – old Lister considering his mortality more, or Rimmer coming back because of a nice reason than resenting Lister’s success – and it’s that kind of thing that I’d love to come back into the show again. Red Dwarf has never quite brought me to tears, but Holoship, Out of Time and The Beginning are all examples of how it can genuinely touch me. I want to REALLY feel for the characters again.

[clem]

> Ideally a bit more heart. X had a pretty good balance of character stuff and plot for the most part, but the sympathetic sides of the characters were seen far less in XI and XII.

Doug doesn’t seem to mind writing Rimmer as a proper bastard these days, worse than ever, when there’s a decent laugh to be gotten out of it. I loved him in Officer Rimmer, but also can’t help feeling it flew in the face of the way his character has changed over the years, and the revelation in The Beginning. I’m thinking of “I bet your gran would be proud” in Mechocracy as well, and of course Howard’s death in Trojan. That really was beyond the pale imo, and not funny. I wasn’t bothered by Rimmer’s reasons for coming back in Skipper, but I think there should have been more of a reason for him wanting to leave in the first place, and his goodbye “speech” was jarring.

XI and XII have their moments, though. Siliconia I think has a lot of heart, in Rimmer’s fish speech and the Lister/Kryten bits. I even think Lister is quite sweet in the Cat’s dream at the end of CoW, even though it’s undercut by the revelation that it’s a dream, and the lady cats.

[Dax101]

I’d like less “moody sets” – they look great, why light them in a such a way as to suggest power failure?

Didn’t Ed Moore say they were trying to recapture the series 5 lighting?

[Dax101]

No-one ever seems to consider Hattie and I’ve no idea if she even has any appetite for it.

I think at this point even if Hattie wanted too it doesn’t seem like Doug is all that interested in bringing Hattie back.

[Ben Saunders]

Series V was very dark, cue Danny complaining that nobody can see him in the commentary

[Dax101]

Quote from Ed Moore from twitter

“I didn’t shoot series X. I wanted to make it look like series IV/V/VI which were much darker.”

I didn’t shoot series X. I wanted to make it look like series IV/V/VI which were much darker. https://t.co/aOhFIU5XSj

— Ed Moore BSC (@edmoore) October 27, 2016

[International Debris]

Siliconia I think has a lot of heart, in Rimmer’s fish speech

Yes, that was one of my favourite scenes in the whole of XI and XII. I think Siliconia and Krysis worked so well for me because they’re the two warmest episodes of each run, despite neither being the funniest. I’d just love more of it – most episodes between Me^2 and Nanarchy have at least a bit of that in them, but a lot of XI and XII seemed to be pretty lacking.

[clem]

I was going to mention Krysis. It’s an odd one because Kryten’s “love” speech kind of comes out of nowhere, like he’s had this big epiphany off screen.

[International Debris]

Yes, it’s one of the strong cases for XI & XII episodes needing to be 35-ish minutes rather than 29.

[Ian Symes]

You’ve hit the nail on the head with the warmth thing. It’s why I’ll always have a soft spot for Back To Earth (Part Three) – the only time Red Dwarf has ever moved me to tears. (Insert joke about Timewave here.)

[flanl3]

Moved to tears? I thought you said boob on her rear!

[Dax101]

I was going to mention Krysis. It’s an odd one because Kryten’s “love” speech kind of comes out of nowhere, like he’s had this big epiphany off screen.

He could have easily have had a realization right there and then.

Personally i ain’t sure whether the love speech is as smart as Doug thought it was or whether he just needed some speech that sounded smart.

Perhaps its because it comes out of no where that it feels abit disconnected

[International Debris]

Yes, for all of BtE’s faults, lack of heart is not one of them. I’ll happily say the same about VII. Give Dear Dave a different final punchline and there’s a nice emotional character plot in there. So it’s something Doug can do, and is obviously very willing to. I think he probably just had too many ideas in XI and XII and the warmth ended up with the short straw a lot.

[Dave]

Honestly, I think it boils down to taking the characters seriously and treating them sincerely. And as much as that stems from the writing, I think the performances are a big part of it too. The broadness of X-XII in terms of the way the characters are performed makes it harder to really care about them, I think.

It would be lovely to see more sincere character work, but I’m not sure it fits with the current version of the show, sadly.

[clem]

> The broadness of X-XII in terms of the way the characters are performed makes it harder to really care about them, I think.

I think so too. They’ve toned it down since X though. I was definitely happier with the main cast’s performances in XI and XII. Sometimes it depends on what the script calls for, of course. I think Chris is great in Officer Rimmer because it really feels like that’s Rimmer being over the top to lord it over the others and revelling in his new found power, rather than Chris giving an overly broad performance.

[Moonlight]

I’m almost tempted to say I’d like to see more CGI than models in XIII, given how iffy the models have often been in XI/XII and how fantastic the CG has been.

[Jawscvmcdia]

I would like to see a return of the “positive viruses” but not just limited to luck and the “sexual magnetism” viruses as was the case in Quarantine (and later Back in the Red). Maybe Doug could expand on the range of positive viruses.

[Pete Part Three]

I would like to see something original.

[bloodteller]

i would like to see rimmer not behave like an absolute bellend for the entire series

[bloodteller]

also maybe some sense of purpose again? in I-V they’re trying to get back to Earth, in VI-VII they’re trying to get back to Red Dwarf, in VIII i don’t know what the fuck they’re trying to do, in X they’re looking for Kochanski. but what are they trying to do in XI-XII? their motive isn’t really clear at any point, and it’s like “well what are they even trying to accomplish anymore”

[Flap Jack]

You say “in I-V they’re trying to get back to Earth”, but are they? Past Series 2 I’m not sure they do any work to achieve this goal, and even in Series 1 and 2 it’s maybe only half the episodes that make any kind of focus out of it.

In Series III-V, getting back to Earth is barely mentioned, and their goal seems to pretty much be just to carry on with their lives. In that regard, Series XI-XII is most like the best era of the show!

Also, “gotta find Kochanski” isn’t really a major goal in Series X AFAIC. They only mention it once an episode, and they never actively look for her. Lister and Rimmer’s attempts to better themselves professionally were closer to being a series-wide goal. Even “get an automatic tea-stirrer” was a higher priority.

[Pete Part Three]

The only time Lister mentions getting back to Earth in Series IV is in White Hole. And the only mention of Earth in Series V is in reference to sealife.

The aim of getting back to Earth got shelved in VI, and the sense of purpose went out the window in Nanarchy, when they idly gave up the search for Red Dwarf to get Lister a new arm by. (Sure, that worked out but they weren’t to know that).

Final episode: “The End Again”. Lister reaches the end of 60 and starts to confront the worrying possibility that he won’t see Earth, or if he does, he’ll be too old to truly enjoy it. He starts to weigh up the options of going into Stasis and being awoken when they finally get there…or accepting that he’ll die on Red Dwarf. Eventually, he decides to take the Stasis route, with the unhappy realisation that he may never be woken up if Earth has been described. Rimmer and Lister say an emotional farewelll to each other as they realise what tbey’ve meant to each other, and how they’ve kept each going, even where they weren’t actually going anywhere.. Episode ends on Lister frozen in Stasis booth, waving goodbye with, a tear paused as it rolls down his cheek.

Radio Times describes it as a “laugh riot”.

[International Debris]

I prefer my idea of Lister and Cat dying of old age and Rimmer and Kryten having to decide whether to turn themselves off or not.

[bloodteller]

>You say “in I-V they’re trying to get back to Earth”, but are they? Past Series 2 I’m not sure they do any work to achieve this goal, and even in Series 1 and 2 it’s maybe only half the episodes that make any kind of focus out of it.
In Series III-V, getting back to Earth is barely mentioned, and their goal seems to pretty much be just to carry on with their lives.

oh sure, but throughout I-V it always feels like they’re on some sort of continuous journey, at least for me. through I-III they only encounter one derelict, and so when IV-V comes around the various ships they come across feels like they’re sort of beginning to wander through the ruins of the long-dead human race and you at least get the feeling they’re heading towards something. XI-XII doesn’t give off this same feeling for some reason, i don’t know why.

[flanl3]

XI feels to me like everyone is finally accepting that the human race will remain in the past. In every single one you really start to feel the effects of the human race finally being gone. In XII weird shit happens.

[RamesesNiblickTheThird]

Doug takes to the stage later this year at DJ ‘Today I’m not going to announce two new series of Red Dwarf….I’m going to announce we’ve been cancelled….’ – mic drop, exit stage left.

[RamesesNiblickTheThird]

Oh if RD13 does come. Holly please and a proper non broom cupboard sized Starbug set with a full mid section. Yes yes I know so Holly it is then.

[bloodteller]

i’d quite like to see some episodes with actual endings

[Moonlight]

I’d like there to be six good episodes instead of five good episodes and one crap episode.

[RickLee84]

A new bunk room and another tweak to the outfits for Kryten and Rimmer. Those bloody swollen hand gloves on Robert look awful, and we’ve had 3 series in a row with Rimmer in blue. Try a new colour. The show got a huge redesign every few years, I think it’s time for that now. Perhaps get rid of the medi-bay and have an all purpose drive room again. And of course, a tweak to the cockpit of Starbug and an open door into a mid-section which gets used and isn’t a corridor redressed with boxes and green lighting.

[NoFro]

^What he said^

[Dax101]

The blue is what highlights that Rimmer is a hard light Hologram.

Admittedly the show has kinda forgotten the days when a Hologram couldn’t touch anything as most of the time every Hologram is either hard light now or the not being able to touch aspect is just forgotten about all together.

I like the blue costume personally.

[Dax101]

I dunno what i expect but id like Doug to cut back on the caffeine just a little bit, yes new and different ideas are good but too many in one half hour episode doesn’t make it clever… it just makes it messy.

Oh and we know the cat is dumb but he doesn’t have to be Dougal from Father Ted dumb to be funny.

[Lily]

I don’t buy the whole colour coded soft/hard light thing. Other than being a convenient visual indication that something about him had changed, I don’t see any reason why he’s tied to that colour.

He’s always worn all manner of different outfits and uniforms when the occasional demands it, you can’t tell me that he can never wear red or green again.

[Author]

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