Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions

[Piplup2003]

The title says it all. What opinions do you have about Red Dwarf that no-one else seems to agree on?

For me, it’s that VIII is my second favourite series (behind V) and that I prefer Chloë over Claire as Kochanski (this may be partially influenced by the fact that I’ve met Chloë).

And please, no arguing.

Topic

[Dave]

[Warbodog]

[Nick R]

[Moonlight]

I have said this before, I even got a response to it on a Wafflemen segment, but every time I see him on Malcolm in the Middle I get more adamant that Chris Eigeman could have been an amazing American Rimmer. And frankly I’m convinced his character on that show is specifically inspired by Rimmer given what Linwood Boomer was up to before he created the show.

[Dave]

Oh definitely. Based on Malcolm he’d be perfect. 

[Rushy]

I can’t stand Douglas Adams’ writing, and this is my genuine reaction to City of Death  

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

You keep your unpopular Douglas Adams opinions to a Douglas Adams forum

[Rushy]

Well, I did, only they told me to sod off. So I thought I could have a nice warm cuppa here

[Flap Jack]

Yeah, I think it’s fair to also not bring that to a Douglas Adams forum. Generally if the prompt is “What are your unpopular opinions on this creator/franchise, the one we’re all gathered here specifically to celebrate?”, the response they’re looking for usually isn’t “I think this creator/franchise is shit”.

Maybe on a general sci-fi or comedy forum though, anti-Adams sentiment would go down ever so slightly easier.

Also, City of Death fucks.

[Rushy]

 Also, City of Death fucks.

If only it wasn’t sexually tilted in favour of sleeping with the dead. 

[Warbodog]

I was disappointed to find that the rest of Doctor Who wasn’t like City of Death. Eventually found a broader sweet spot in the Hinchcliffe era, even if it’s all just homages.

I think Dirk Gently 1 is peak Douglas Adams, at least I did the last time I read through.

[Technopeasant]

Also, City of Death fucks.

What Tom and Lalla did on their off time is their business.

My heretical take is I’ve never warmed to Terry Pratchett.

[Warbodog]

My heretical take is I’ve never warmed to Terry Pratchett.

[clem]

My heretical take is I’ve never warmed to Terry Pratchett.

Me neither. At the behest of a friend I tried Discworld as a teenager, read the first two books, really wanting to like them but just couldn’t get into it. He thought I might like the witches better so I tried Wyrd Sisters but had to force myself to finish it. Maybe I compared them unfairly to Hitchhiker’s but I found it all a bit trite and lacking in the lovely memorable inventive turns of phrase you get in Adams’ prose.

[Jenuall]

Terry Pratchett is a national treasure and I will not hear a bad word about him or his works! 

Pratchett > Adams for me, though they are both incredibly different writers and I do have a soft spot for Dirk Gently

[International Debris]

The closest I’ve come to trying Pratchett is getting through about a third of The Colour of Magic, twice, before getting annoyed by it both times and giving up.

[Ben Saunders]

City of Death is good, but most of the rest of Adams’ work on Doctor Who is medicore-to-shit. It’s not helped by the higher ups at the BBC caving to Mary Whitehouse’s demands and demanding the show be more family-friendly and less violent and more comedic, Tom Baker starting to take the role less seriously, and inflation causing the budget to plummet to sixpence and a shoestring per episode. City of Death is by all accounts a fluke, Tom Baker and Lalla Ward rewriting the script themselves and there being nothing else on at the time because ITV were doing a strike.

[Jenuall]

The closest I’ve come to trying Pratchett is getting through about a third of The Colour of Magic, twice, before getting annoyed by it both times and giving up.

Colour of Magic is far from his best work. I mean as a fan I still like it personally, but I would definitely not recommend it as a starting point for getting into Discworld specifically or Pratchett’s work more generally.

In terms of Discworld anything from Mort onward is some degree of great in my opinion – up until about Making Money/Unseen Academicals where sadly you can really start to see the impact of his Alzheimer’s 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

The closest I’ve come to trying Pratchett is getting through about a third of The Colour of Magic, twice, before getting annoyed by it both times and giving up.

Having read some, but by no means all, Pratchett I would highly encourage you to find something later in the series that looks like it might appeal to you

The early few books are a bit of a slog I find.  But then you get series and characters later on that are much more accessible and fun to read.

You’re mileage my vary depending on the sort of things you enjoy, but I think he definitely finds a style and tone after a while that is generally a lot easier to read

I really enjoyed Going Postal just as a stand-a-lone story.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Oh, I also really enjoyed the non-discworld series Johnny Maxwell trilogy (although I read that very young I remember) Dodger was really good if you want a Victorian London adventure.

Something closer to hard sci-fi The Long Earth series was enjoyable to begin with but I felt it dragging eventually.  And it’s nothing like Discworld or the style of writing you expect from Pratchett.  But then he does have a writing partner so …

[Flap Jack]

I’ve been getting into Discworld for the first time over the past year via the new audiobooks, and I’ve been hugely enjoying it. I’m going in release order (because my brain won’t accept doing it any other way) but thankfully I wasn’t put off by The Colour of Magic! I’m up to Guards! Guards! now, and out of the 7 I’ve read I would actually rank Equal Rites and Pyramids below TCoM.

Pratchett’s prose definitely has an Adams-ian quality to it.

[Unrumble]

Oh, I also really enjoyed the non-discworld series Johnny Maxwell trilogy

This is a fantastic trilogy, I must have read ‘Only You Can Save Mankind’ more than most other books, used to constantly check it out of the library. 

I also loved Discworld as a teenager and agree with the comment that ‘Mort’ is when it really finds its feet as an ongoing series. Was always particularly partial to Vimes and the city watch. 

[International Debris]

I’m sorry, I can’t read a series out of order. I’d rather not read it.

Why is my brain like this?

[Unrumble]

I’m sorry, I can’t read a series out of order. I’d rather not read it. 

Ye-es… but Discworld is kind of a rotating anthology series. While there is cross-pollination at times, you could pick a particular strand/set of characters to follow, and ignore the rest, without it making that much of a difference. Plus aforementioned standalones like ‘Going Postal’. 

I reckon anyway, it’s been many years for me. If you don’t feel it’s for you, there’s plenty other stuff out there. 

[International Debris]

Nah, even if the links are really tenuous, I can’t do it out of order. Like I say, ridiculous brain. 

[Technopeasant]

 I really enjoyed Going Postal

I have forwarded your name to the authorities.

Terry Pratchett is a national treasure and I will not hear a bad word about him or his works! 

I have a high opinion of Pratchett the man, to be fair. After all, among other things, he liked Red Dwarf. Did Adams ever mention it?
I also simply prefer sci-fi to fantasy, and honestly can’t claim to have ever dug that deeply into his work.

most of the rest of Adams’ work on Doctor Who is medicore-to-shit

If you can’t enjoy The Horns of Nimon for Graham Crowden alone I can’t help you. More seriously I rather like The Creature from the Pit. Destiny of the Daleks is fairly meh though.

[Ian Symes]

Nah, even if the links are really tenuous, I can’t do it out of order. Like I say, ridiculous brain. 

My brain agrees with your brain, ID. All or nothing. Therefore, quite often it’s nothing. 

[desbug]

Nah, even if the links are really tenuous, I can’t do it out of order. Like I say, ridiculous brain. 

There’s a point in Discworld where you have to read them in order really, as the disc starts to go through a sort of industrial revolution and things that are introduced in one book are background in the next ones. As noted above it takes a few books for Pratchett to really find his stride in the series and then there’s a run of excellent books, and then they tail off in later years.  

[Jenuall]

I have a high opinion of Pratchett the man, to be fair. After all, among other things, he liked Red Dwarf. Did Adams ever mention it? 

Good question! I’m not aware of any Adams quotes that reference Dwarf, I would be really interested to know if there are any accounts of his thoughts on the show (or books!)

Doing a quick Google of Adams and Dwarf did turn up this early G&T article which was quite interesting to read, if nothing else for the fact it has this quote attributed to Rob:

I’ve got no objections to being the comedy person, but I have got objections to not being the science fiction person. I mean, I don’t think you’d get Doug to say he was a major science fiction fan, I was the one who was trying to drag us into writing a science fiction thing. I am the SF freak. I am a fan. This is why it’s so much fun for me doing Red Dwarf. I am a Star Trek fan, I’m a Next Generation fan, I love science fiction.

So there it is, confirmation from 2004, Rob was in fact both the funny one AND the sci-fi one!

I also simply prefer sci-fi to fantasy, and honestly can’t claim to have ever dug that deeply into his work. 

Generally speaking I’m no big fantasy fan myself (an unpopular opinion of my own is that I really can’t get on with Tolkien!) so Pratchett is definitely the anomaly there. Normally I’d go for sci-fi any day but Pratchett fantasy just hits me in all the right places (and ironically his sci-fi never quite gets me the same!)

[Hamish]

[Cardinal_Hordriss]

I didnt get into Pratchet until I was 16. My History teacher was playing Nanny Ogg in a play adaptation of Lords and Ladies. They were struggling finding props and I was the only witch anyone involved knew so I provided all the cauldrons, funny bottles, occult jewellery, skulls, staffs etc. As a result my mum and I got free front row seats… which became a bit nerve wracking when one of the cast was waving a hatchet around. That said, a couple of years later I was codirecting a play with my History teacher and had to personally direct a massive sword fight between pirates and nuns that didn’t quite fit in the rehearsal room… that got scary lol.

I liked the Sky adaptations, they weren’t great though. Hogfather was ok, I loved Ian Richardson as Death and based my Death voice on him when I was in Men at Arms. Colour of Magic was a bit hit and miss, though based on Terry’s intro on the DVD that is a quality the novel shared, though the Sky version was actually a combo of The Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic. Going Postal was great and I was really hoping the next one would be about the Lancre witches but sadly there wasn’t a next one.

[Technopeasant]

The Sky adaptation of The Colour of Magic is my main actual exposure to Pratchett which I fully admit might not be the most representative sample.

[Ian Symes]

My only exposure to any of Pratchett’s work is the Discworld II: Missing Presumed? game, which I had on the Playstation. Not even played the first one.

[Jenuall]

Discworld Noir is probably the best of the games – benefits massively from doing it’s own thing more and not trying to tie in or replicate plot points from one or more novels too tightly like the first two point and click games did.

They also have some of the most annoying random puzzles in them – when people moan about how unintuitive the solutions to point and click game puzzles were in the 80s and 90s it’s always Discworld that pops into my head!

I liked the Hogfather adaptation a lot, even if I don’t think they got the character of Teatime right. Both Death and Susan were excellent in that. I’ve never actually watched the Colour of Magic or Going Postal adaptations, I should probably get around to fixing that at some point.

[Flap Jack]

My only exposure to any of Pratchett’s work is the Discworld II: Missing
Presumed? game, which I had on the Playstation. Not even played the
first one.

Shame that the Discworld game you played wasn’t the one with a Red Dwarf connection!

I’m sure I’ve said it before, but in a universe where free time was at a surplus, discussion of the video games that Dwarf alum have been in could be an interesting G&T feature. Even if it would only be like 5 games total.

However, Simon the Sorcerer Origins does release at the end of next month, featuring Chris Barrie’s first return to the title role since the original game. So that makes it 6.

[Jenuall]

Simon the Sorcerer traded a lot on the fact it had Chris Barrie doing the voice. From what I remember it was utter dogshit as an actual game!

[Warbodog]

Simon the Sorcerer traded a lot on the fact it had Chris Barrie doing the voice. From what I remember it was utter dogshit as an actual game!

I liked it as a kid, even if it was sub-Monkey Island. We only had the floppy version with multicoloured text rather than voices, as is proper.

[Flap Jack]

Simon the Sorcerer traded a lot on the fact it had Chris Barrie doing
the voice. From what I remember it was utter dogshit as an actual game!

According to Wikipedia it was critically acclaimed! The lowest critic score referenced was Amiga Power’s 57%, with all the other scores being equivalent to 70% or higher. Plus quite a few of these scores were for the base Amiga version which didn’t even have the voice acting.

Of course, good by the adventure game standards of the time doesn’t necessarily mean the game will feel good to play in a post Telltale world.

[Dave]

[Flap Jack]

An audacious misrepresentation of the data! Was it worth it, Dave? Maths is inconsolable right now.

[Moonlight]

Simon the Sorcerer traded a lot on the fact it had Chris Barrie doing the voice. From what I remember it was utter dogshit as an actual game!

We played it as a family when I was in middle school and I’m still angry about the puzzle whose solution is “use the pig on the door.” That was the one, the ONE bit of the game that stumped all of us into giving up and looking at a walkthrough. It’s probably the strongest memory I have of the game on account of how stuck we were.

[Dave]

I’m now getting Sam & Max Hit The Road flashbacks.

[Technopeasant]

“use the pig on the door.”

Is that where Adventure Time got that from?

[sleepey]

[Technopeasant]

[Warbodog]

It was a chocolate truffle door if you looked at it, so it didn’t stick out as one of the trickier bits to me.

I remember being annoyed by the sousaphone player, since you only had a few seconds to ever try something before Simon left the screen in protest. You have to enter from the far side of the screen only and use a melon or something which he throws in it.

Also some stuff like the matchbox on top of the jukebox in the inn just being really hard to notice until you eventually accidentally flash your cursor over it and see some writing.

[Dave]

I remember being annoyed by the sousaphone player, since you only had a few seconds to ever try something before Simon left the screen in protest. You have to enter from the far side of the screen only and use a melon or something which he throws in it.

If you think that’s bad, try kicking the wall in Full Throttle.

[Moonlight]

It was a chocolate truffle door if you looked at it, so it didn’t stick out as one of the trickier bits to me.

I don’t think I would’ve been aware of the connection between pigs and truffles as a 13 year old. Especially given I remembered it as only the chocolate door until you said that.

[Warbodog]

I don’t think I would’ve been aware of the connection between pigs and truffles as a 13 year old.

Oh yeah, we had a stack of second-hand Amiga magazines pre-internet and would just hunt for the walkthrough to any game like this when we hit an early snag, then keep using it. I didn’t even work out that I was supposed to follow the storekeeper near the start of Monkey Island 1 by myself.

[Ben Saunders]

It was a chocolate truffle door if you looked at it, so it didn’t stick out as one of the trickier bits to me.

[Author]

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