Back to Earth isn't Shit

[Ben Paddon]

Seb tweeted his disappointment the other day about how it’s become generally accepted that Back to Earth was shit, which is a real pity because I believe now, just as much as I did at broadcast, that it’s not. It’s flawed – certainly the broadcast version is atrociously paced – but not only is it a cracking story it also has some fantastic jokes and some lovely character moments.

The press seems to have forgotten that some of them rather liked it when it broadcast, and quite a few places are starting their Red Dwarf X coverage with comments to the effect of, “Well, Back to Earth was rubbish, but this looks like a return to form!” Which is, y’know, bollocks, and they know it’s bollocks because three and a half years ago they wrote about how not-rubbish it was.

When BtE hit Bluray over here I picked up a copy from Best Buy. My then-girlfriend and I got home and wanting something to watch while we ate lunch I suggested popping it on. She agreed, mostly because she just wanted something in the background rather than something to watch. She wasn’t, and still isn’t, a fan of Red Dwarf, but she actually sat and watched BtE and, whats more, she loved it.

And y’know what? So do I. Since getting it on DVD (and later on Bluray) I’ve watched it about a dozen times. And of my own free will, too. I might watch it again later today, actually.

It’s also a shame that the tone around here has gradually shifted from “It was quite good, better than VIII, not as good as I-VI” to “It’s crap, son.” I remember reaction round these parts being much more positive than its been in recent weeks. Not everybody liked it, obviously, but not everybody hated it either. It’s strange how the tone has shifted as RDX approaches.

Topic

[Mr-Stabby]

Yeah I agree. As Series X has been building up, i found myself looking back at the reaction to BtE on broadcast here and on other sites like Gallifrey Base, and was surprised at just how good the reaction was. Especially considering whenever BtE has been mentioned recently, it has always been in a negative fashion mostly.

Even the Instant Reaction Dwarfcasts were more positive than negative. Weird how opinions change. Maybe the original excitement of the actual broadcast may have led people to be more positive, and the later reactions were people giving their measured reaction after watching it a couple of times.

Personally i really liked BtE and remembered laughing quite a lot on original broadcast. I also bought the DVD AND the Bluray when it came out (gave the DVD away to a friend who is a big Dwarf fan and didn’t even know Back to Earth existed. Strange isn’t it!)

There are however, I think, quite a few things wrong with BtE. I really think it needed a studio audience, i know that’s such a cliched line, but a lot of the gags, especially in the first part needed an audience reaction and felt slightly awkward without one. I don’t think it was paced correctly for a commercial half hour 3 parter either. I don’t care if the DVD version is better, you should make a show designed for the slot it is given on TV and Series 8 and BtE suffered because of that not being the case. I understand BtE became a 3 parter quite close to broadcast, but some of the edits seemed very rushed.

Anyway, while it had problems, as i said i really liked it and it certainly doesn’t deserve the bashing it gets. The whole ‘they’re too old, the show is past its best, let it go’ bullshit really fucks me off at times too. BtE was a massive improvement over Series 8 and from what we’re seeing Series X looks to be bloody good, so i wish people would let that crap go and just try and enjoy it. By all means slag it off after its broadcast :D

[Jimboid]

I’ve always liked it. It’s better than any of 7 or 8 (apart from maybe Cassandra).

It certainly wasn’t bollock-slappingly hilarious, but duff lines were few and far between. It mixed humour and drama more successfully than ever before. I’d rather have that sort of tone than scattergun gagging with more misses than hits.

[Ridley]

Are the BTE poll comments still on-site or have they been lost into the ether with the move to WordPress? If I’m remembering correctly most instant reactions from non-Team G&Ters were there, and it would be nice to take a gander.

[Jonathan Capps]

They’ve not been moved yet, but I’ll see what I can do when I get back in front of a computer.

For the record, I like BTE more now than I did at the time.

[Alex]

I think most of us are as positive about it now as we ever were, but I’ve noticed a lot of people that didn’t like it becoming louder. As for the press, well it’s typical lazy journalism to pander to a ‘received wisdom’ largely taken from online comment sections. The only negative review of BtE I remember reading in the press at the time was Caitlin Moran’s, but it was clear in that review that she didn’t like the show anyway and resented having to watch new episodes of it.

The thing that has really depressed me recently is the amount of comments I’ve seen on sites saying that they didn’t like how BtE ended with them all just having been TV characters. These people clearly didn’t watch all three episodes through to the end and as such should keep their fucking moronic comments to themselves.

[Pete Part Three]

BTE’s not shit.

It’s just not very good.

I’m going to watch it again shortly before X starts as I *do* have the BD but have only seen it about three times since broadcast. Unfortunately, I don’t think my opinions will have changed.

I really like some of the ideas (the premise that Series 9 happened off-screen is wonderful) but, aside from the fact that it’s not funny and the final third is awful, the meta stuff totally loses its way once it becomes abundantly clear that it’s not happening in ‘our” world, but in some weird reality where “dimension skids” are treated with disinterest by comic book guy,

I would have loved it if they’d had the balls of say, The Simpsons, South Park, Buffy – and taken some proper potshots at the show itself. Deconstruct the thing properly. Make mention of the fact that VII was badly received. Name Doug Naylor as the creator. And FFS; mention that Red Dwarf is a SITCOM and people find the crew’s life and death situations amusing. Part two (the middle third) had huge promise and then it’s just tossed away.

And a celebration of Red Dwarf should not descend into frankly bizarre nods to a film with which it shares little in common. We could have had a wonderful adaptation of the ideas in Better Than Life (the novel), instead we get “let’s try and make this scene as similar to a movie from 30 years ago”. I think I’ll gloss over the fact that it’s a rip-off of a far better episode or I’ll vomit another paragraph of bile.

By the way, I think it’s amusing that people are quibbling about this being stated in amazingly positive reviews of Trojan. If you don’t agree with their negative opinion on BTE, their positive comments on Trojan should be meaningless to you.

[si]

I rewatched it (Director’s Cut) when it was on Dave 3 weeks ago, then watched the three episode version as I reached the end of the 1-55 rewatch I’ve steadily been partaking in over the last few months.
I reread my comments from the G&T ‘on the night’ pieces, and, though I was perhaps OTT in places, I more or less agree with what I said back then.
Post Part One:

…on the whole, well worth the wait…Yeah, a 7/10. Not too much wrong with it, really.

Post Part Two (note I’d never seen Blade Runner prior to this):

Loved the extra scene after the recap, loved the entrance into the shop, really loved the ‘bunk room scene’ with Rimmer and Lister…Mugs Murphy inclusion was great. The kids on the bus. The way Rimmer disposed of Katerina! Chloe in the magazine – Brilliant touch!! …
That was 200% better than last night’s ep, which means this episode deserves a 14 out of 10.
Immense….the ad break (after, what, five minutes?!) – hilarious!!!
…what was with The Cat’s Origami stuff? That I didn’t get.
(Although my sister’s suggesting it might be something from Story Makers)
I’ve never seen BladeRunner, and although I may have missed a reference or two, I thought tonight’s was brilliant….I’m loving it, and am somewhat saddened by the fact that there’s only one more episode

and just before Part Three:

I’ve really enjoyed it. I’ve given the impression of blindly loving it simply because it’s Red Dwarf. So I’ll concede it hasn’t felt like ‘traditional’ Dwarf – the stuff on the ship wasn’t as good as the classic stuff, and, ironically, some of the best stuff in part one was once Katerina turned up. Episode two, which was as far from ‘trad’ Dwarf as possible was, on the other hand, hilarious…

But then a few hours later, post Part three:

Sod that. Really disappointed tonight. And yet everyone who hated last night loved it…
The stuff on Coronation Street was fine – not overlong, and some funny stuff (loved the ‘Nowt On Telly’ magazine – that was the best scene by far). After the Rimmer Munchkins led them into the Creator’s office, it just became…what? It wasn’t even because it was too much of a mindfuck, I just didn’t have the same, content, inane grin on my face that I’ve had on my face for the past two nights.
The Creator was just…bad. Maybe that was a major Blade Runner reference? If not, it was bad….
I think keeping Chloe quiet was possibly the biggest surprise – yes, we had our suspicions after last night, but still – but her hair, in both scenes…my god. From Horse and Rider to…oh, I don’t know.
I can cope with RD being Comedy-Drama, but there were periods of that second half that just went too long without a laugh. The resolution of The Cat bringing the threat aboard originally was a little flat, and I would have liked a chuckle at the end, which I didn’t get.
Rating: Part three – 4/10, overall – 7/10.

So, yeah. I watch it now – having seen Blade Runner a couple of times – and I think some things are better than I did then, while other things don’t work for me. But a 6 or a 7 out of 10 is fair. Some very good stuff, but an over-reliance on the BR stuff made it hard for me to follow and hence enjoy.

That thing about me not having the grin on my face for part three holds true, but I must say, having watched it again twice recently, the diving bell scene is one of the best RD scenes ever.

But, in summation – no, Back to Earth *isn’t* shit.

[Ridley]

G&T ‘on the night’ pieces

Maybe I was thinking of them then.

[Carlito]

I’ll preface by saying I still haven’t seen Blade Runner…

I think the reason the opinion of BTE has soured is because, if there are people out there like me, it doesn’t have a great deal of rewatch value. I can sit and rewatch a series I-VI episode that I’ve seen twenty times before and still really enjoy it. There are a few select episodes in VII and VIII that I can do the same with. But other than in the immediate aftermath of the broadcast and subsequent DVD release, I have rarely returned to the well of BTE. I think sitcom is generally far more rewatchable than drama, no matter how good said drama may be, and even though you couldn’t call BTE a drama, the tone is quite obviously different. I duno, I’m kind of rambling and not articulating my point all that well… hopefully you get what I mean.

Having said the above, my opinions at the time were that episode 1 was great, episode 2 was disappointing and episode 3 was okay. But I think my appreciation of episode 2 has increased while my lukewarm feelings towards 3 have degenerated. I still think episode 1 was the best of the bunch. Still have no problem with the squid resolution as I understood that the special was a celebratory nod to the shows history and thought it was fitting.

[Carlito]

I still think they missed a trick by not having a studio audience or at least a (genuine) laugh track for the ship based portions of the show and have the audience disappear when the crew entered ‘the real world’.

[Ben Paddon]

I still think they missed a trick by not having a studio audience or at least a (genuine) laugh track for the ship based portions of the show and have the audience disappear when the crew entered ‘the real world’.

I actually think that would have worked beautifully, though obviously the budget didn’t allow this to happen.

[si]

And me. Starting with an audience, then losing it the minute they left the ship not only would’ve been a great touch for the story, but there’d be less spoilers for the audience to risk leaking. :)

[MANI506]

The only bits I don’t like about BTE are the tomato scene and the toilet discussion in the bunk scene.

All the performances are great and Mike Seymour deserves a medal. It is definitely not shit!

I laughed like a twat at the zoom in bit and the priory line.

[Ben Paddon]

The tomato gag is a brilliant idea, and the performances are brilliant, but the dialog just doesn’t quite make it.

[srmcd1]

I think the tomato gag should’ve ended with Lister having to go to the Medi Bay for some inoculations, just to show how badly the prank has gone for him. Could’ve had his tongue start swelling up and everything.

[Ben Paddon]

Had Back to Earth been a single, 26-minute episode then yeah, I can see that working as a button for the end of the show. But with the miniseries format, it just wouldn’t have worked.

[Pecospete666]

I think it was brilliant concept! Doug picked out the major points of the original movie and added his comedy and it worked brilliantly. If you didn’t like it or thought it was shit maybe you should watch Blade Runner and Then BTE and then maybe you can appreciate the show. I have no complaints about it.

PS Mr Stabby can I have you old Avatar?

[Pete Part Three]

>If you didn’t like it or thought it was shit maybe you should watch Blade Runner and Then BTE and then maybe you can appreciate the show.

I’ve seen Blade Runner. I don’t why I should though to enjoy the 20th Anniversary Special of a BBC sitcom which has little to do with it. You should be able to enjoy something on its own merits – not in relation to something else.

>Doug picked out the major points of the original movie and added his comedy and it worked brilliantly

Yeah, I’m failing to see much comedy in any of the actual nods though. They’re mostly just THERE.
http://www.reddwarf.co.uk/features/analysis/back-to-blade-runner/index.cfm

[pfm]

The idea of BtE is great, and the show itself looks amazing. In fact, everything about its production is pretty inspiring (lots of people working for peanuts or as a favour, just for their love of Red Dwarf), and seeing the guys back together in the roles was a real joy; a feat I was slowly losing hope for.

The biggest plus points were Craig’s performance, and what Doug had given the character (possibly brought on by him thinking ‘oh shit, Craig’s not really up for this, so I have to give him something with a bit of meat’). Also, Chloe’s appearance towards the end never fails to make me smile. I don’t know how anyone can slate that, or dismiss BtE as ‘crap’ when these moments exist. Plus, Sophie Winkleman… ;)

Of course, it’s not a particularly funny episode (BITR, the complete cut, for example, has a ton of laughs in comparison), and a little in no man’s land in regards to what it’s trying to be. You could settle for ‘comedy drama’ but that’ll never sit right. However, I think it’s far more successful than VII in developing the show’s format and proved, to me, that the movie WOULD have been great.

[Pecospete666]

Pete Part Three I wearer of you! time for you to die!
Everybody’s entitled to their opinion :)

[genericnerdyusername]

Ah, so you’ve moved on from wanting fictional characters to die and now it’s real people. WHO’S NEXT?

[Pecospete666]

You! Stay out of AZ USA :)

[Jimboid]

PP3 – Your initial post in this thread…yes. All of that. Very true.

[genericnerdyusername]

>Everybody’s entitled to their opinion :)

Including PP3.

[Seb Patrick]

once it becomes abundantly clear that it’s not happening in ‘our” world, but in some weird reality where “dimension skids” are treated with disinterest by comic book guy

See, I don’t think it becomes “abundantly clear” until they get to Swallow or, alternatively, the “Tyrell” building. I never took the line about dimension skids as a sign that they’re a common feature of the reality they’re in, so much as a sign that Noddy is completely fucking batshit insane.

[Seb Patrick]

And FFS; mention that Red Dwarf is a SITCOM and people find the crew’s life and death situations amusing.

And not to just go ragging on all your points, but the fact that it DOESN’T do this is one of my favourite elements of it, and a great bit of subversion that I never would have thought of. Because we all think of Red Dwarf as a sitcom, I think it’s hilarious that even when discovering that their lives are a TV show, the characters assume it’s a drama. Because to them, it would be.

[Pete Part Three]

To not explore the actual reality of it feels like a missed opportunity to me. Merely concentrating on the fact that Lister et al are fictional characters is ground that was covered in…um…another episode so there was mileage in being properly meta about it and setting it in the “real world”.

It seems odd to dangle the premise that Red Dwarf is a TV show [of indefinite genre, starring Chloe Annett and Craig Charles from Corrie] in a universe that iooks like ours, but then get restless with this idea and throw a load of Blade Runner homages at us because, hey, it’s not our universe after all and we can do movie-spoofs well.

For Doug to later admit that Blade Runner had little to do with the creation of Red Dwarf is…confusing. What exactly was the point of all that then? The Last Day homages The Terminator, Polymorph homages Alien…but these are natural homages due to the stories of those episodes. The Blade Runner stuff is just odd. Had the crew been watching it before they had the hallucination? What has Red Dwarf got to do with Blade Runner? Actually, sod that, what has Back to Earth got to do with Blade Runner aside from the bizarre amount of homages?

The Coronation Street stuff gives an idea of what this could have been had they gone along with taking the piss out of themselves a bit. It’s certainly more in keeping with an anniversary. I think I’d be able to overlook the lack of laughs, if they’d taken that idea further.

The final line of the episode (I hesitate to call it a joke) makes mention of the audience at home and the crew wander away laughing smugly at their expense. But the audience at home isn’t “us” as the universe they’ve visited isn’t ours, so the line doesn’t even work.

[Carlito]

I would agree that the premise was a great idea, and the Blade Runner stuff sidetracked it. I really liked episode 1, and the scenes on Earth which didn’t revolve around Blade Runner (the department store/mall, the bus journey, Corrie etc.)

I would have preferred The Creator actually be Doug Naylor, even if he didn’t portray himself. If part 1 had been the same, then part 2 and 3 had been more along the lines of the aforementioned scenes I think it would have been overall a better show. Why did they only meet Craig? Why didn’t they go looking for Danny, Chris and Robert too? That would have been more interesting, I think. Even if they had tracked down Norm and Hattie, imagine a scene with the characters meeting Norm and Hattie at the same time, how weirdly cool would that have been? BTE is one of those “what could have been” scenarios I think. Fantastic idea spoiled by over-egging the homage. Just the zoom scene and origami would have done as a nod to Blade Runner.

[si]

I would have preferred The Creator actually be Doug Naylor, even if he didn’t portray himself.

Or better still, a ‘Grant Naylor’ gestalt character

By the way, those on-the-night pieces are easy enough to find in the archive – April 2009 – but the ones I quoted my own comments from were:

Let’s Talk About Back To Earth Part One

http://www.ganymede.tv/2009/04/lets-talk-about-back-to-earth-part-two/ and

Let’s Talk About Back To Earth Part Three

Plenty of interesting comments (and arguments) there, including some from folks who don’t frequent G&T anymore, for whatever reason.

[Pete Part Three]

Yeah, there’s nothing wrong with the zoom joke, because it works in the context of the show and is not weird enough to make you think “I don’t get it… Is this a homage?”.

>Plenty of interesting comments (and arguments) there, including some from folks who don’t frequent G&T anymore, for whatever reason.

I scared them all off with my incessant moaning. Sorry.

[locusceruleus]

Jimboid said it well, for me. I absolutely loved BTE when it was first broadcast and on the 4 or so occasions I’ve watched it since. I’d agree with Ben, the director’s cut has far better pacing.

The thing with BTE is that more casual fans have never seemed to like when Dwarf plays up the comedy/drama angle. I’m not surprised that they were disappointed, but when I hear that fans who have followed the show through every series didn’t enjoy it, I’m surprised. The characterisation was dead on, the Kochanski stuff was moving. Scenes like Lister on the bus with the two kids were fucking magic. It was Craig’s show, really.

[Ridley]

Or better still, a ‘Grant Naylor’ gestalt character

And Rimmer should have wanted a sitcom in a leisure centre.

I’ve got this mental image of the Dwarfers going to find ‘Earth’ Holly and it’s Lovett and Hayridge in a flatshare. Except it isn’t Hayridge but Lovett popping on the Beat the Geek wig.

[Pete Part Three]

>Except it isn’t Hayridge but Lovett popping on the Beat the Geek wig.

Yeah, and he keeps on having to change into the wig while the Dwarfers are there so as to keep up the pretence that him and Hattie are different people or else the Social Services will take the Dwarfers away from him.

[Jonsmad]

Back to earth compared to previous sitcom dwarf, is different and time has passed, and a lot of people judge early and dissmiss, and that voice of past fan not returning in joy is bound to be pretty large on a show with such a long history. Although doug bigs up an audience of 11m for it. It’s sort of like 2million on broadcast episode. So 6 million less than it’s bbc 2 last audience and some of the recent 2 million must be made of newer fans etc watching since getting into repeats/dvds. it’s a massive voice of glimpsing no longer into it fans seeing something different or reading about it and passing on the idea it’s shit.

Twats.

Presumably they arent reading here so i can call them that! Some will probably dimiss Red Dwarf X too.

I’ve rewatched back to earth more times on dvd than any other series episode in the last few years. Cus it’s a great mini movie. It’s as good as, and similar to the best of new dr who which is clearly comedy as well as sci fi drama. And
i still get the fun of it being back from it, especially the part they arrive on earth through to the corrie stuff.

With Red dwarf x bringing back the sitcom element, and generally feeling so great it is shining a light on the imperfections of back to earth, particularly on how unfunny the ship based stuff was in it. So it’s rating is falling i think.

For me I agree with Mani506 those bits dont work. The rest does.

>You should be able to enjoy something on its own merits – not in relation to something else.

I dont agree. This discounts any level of inspirational homage/parody. Casablanca case in point.
I agree that works better some times when it still works as say story or exagerated moment with out knowledge
of the source. And indeed i think the more heavily you do it in a show the more problematic it becomes for
a wider audience. And I certainly would agree if you were to say that back to earth more than any other show
on tv ever didnt so much dip into homage/parody but scoff at it like a five course meal without clear enough reason,
but it did at least mention it in set up.

[genericnerdyusername]

>Casablanca case in point.
I disagree with this. I’ve never seen Casablanca but I still get Camille and Holoship.

[Pete Part Three]

>Casablanca case in point.

I assume you’re referring to the homage in Camille. The difference is that the ending of Camille is about the breakup of a relationship, so referencing lines from a film about the breakup of a relationship doesn’t jar with anyone. If you haven’t seen Casablanca (or been exposed to the sheer number of times that’s been parodied) , the scene still makes perfect sense.

The creator being dressed weird, Kochanski having an odd haircut/costume, the building being that shape, the odd environment of the streets, the presence of the Rimmer Munchkins…all of these are aesthetic choices which don’t have anything to do with the story of Back to Earth.

Homaging something should not be so awkward and overt. It shouldn’t be a case of the audience questioning “Why is that there like that?”. It shouldn’t draw attention to itself and detract from the actual material. If you’re familiar with what is being referenced, then that’s nice. The person who doesn’t spot it shouldn’t be wondering why stylistic choices have been made.

Blade Runner has an amazing look to it. It’s been ripped off and homaged countless times but you can do it, just do it subtlely and, er, maybe reign it in a bit.

[Phil]

>If you haven’t seen Casablanca (or been exposed to the sheer number of times that’s been parodied) , the scene still makes perfect sense.

Yeah, that’s kind of my litmus test for cultural references. If the joke works without the knowledge but is _enhanced_ by the knowledge, it’s fair game. If the joke (or “joke”) is meaningless outside of the original context of the reference, it tends to get under my skin…even if I am very familiar with the original context. It needs to work on both levels, otherwise it’s lazy Family Guy-style reenactments masquerading as comedy.

[Bezzy]

I always associated BtE as a comedy drama. I liked it and felt Craig’s more mature Lister was great.. especially his emotional pieces.. yeah it was flawed in many ways but it wasnt shit at all.

[Plastic Percy]

I really, really loved ‘Back to Earth’. But I still don’t understand how ‘Blade Runner’ was its inspiration? Doug and Rob always used to say they were inspired by the films ‘Alien’ and ‘Dark Star’.

[John Hoare]

The problem with the dramatic bits in Back To Earth was that – for me – they didn’t earn them by being extremely funny as well.

Without wanting to sound like a stuck record, this is something Hi-De-Hi! does perfectly.

[Danny Stephenson]

Blade Runner was more for the books I would say.

[thomasaevans]

Well… I never saw Blade Runner before watching Back To Earth – yet I have always thought It to be excellent.

Having watched Blade Runner since, yeah I felt I enjoyed It more so. But I’ve never swayed from It, I always thought It was excellent, and I’m rather gutted to find that nearly ALL my friends who like Red Dwarf detest Back To Earth with a passion – So much so, I’ve literally had to fight tooth and nail to persuade them to watch the new series, constantly getting ‘If It’s like the last one, I wont fucking bother’ thrown back In my face.

Back To Earth – FAR better than It’s made out to be. I love It.

[John Hoare]

Having watched Blade Runner since, yeah I felt I enjoyed It more so. But I’ve never swayed from It, I always thought It was excellent, and I’m rather gutted to find that nearly ALL my friends who like Red Dwarf detest Back To Earth with a passion – So much so, I’ve literally had to fight tooth and nail to persuade them to watch the new series, constantly getting ‘If It’s like the last one, I wont fucking bother’ thrown back In my face.

This does bring up something odd – because I’ve had exactly the same. Everyone I’ve talked to about Back To Earth outside fandom – they hated it without fail. Including one person who doesn’t seem to get passionate about anything… but got very passionate when I got onto this subject.

Not that I’m saying the people I know are necessarily representative of the general audience, mind!

(What I also found strange is how few questions there were about Back To Earth at Dimension Jump XV, considering how many fans loved it. But then I’ve complained about fans not being interested in the DVDs before either, so I don’t think that proves much beyond a lot of fans being RUBBISH.)

[Ben Paddon]

I really, really loved ‘Back to Earth’. But I still don’t understand how ‘Blade Runner’ was its inspiration? Doug and Rob always used to say they were inspired by the films ‘Alien’ and ‘Dark Star’.

The way i see it, Blade Runner inspired Back to Earth (obviously) but not Red Dwarf, despite publicity at the time (which, frankly, we could’ve done without, especially in light of the “revelation” that Blade Runner wasn’t actually that much of an inspiration for the show in the first place).

[pfm]

The reason people outside of fandom won’t like BtE is that it relies too much on the viewers BEING fans (of both Red Dwarf and, to a lesser extent, Blade Runner) to even appreciate what Doug is trying to do.

A similar thing would apply if Back To Reality was your first experience of Dwarf. There’s no way you could fully enjoy the idea of the characters ‘discovering’ they’re not who they think they are if you don’t actually know who they are in the first place! That doesn’t mean to say episodes like this shouldn’t be made, it’s just that BtE was the first Dwarf for 10 years, and it should have been something that drew newbies in from the get-go as opposed to resting on 52 episodes of history.

[Pete Part Three]

Very few of my mates actually watch Red Dwarf. Two of them who I dragged to an X recording (and were very positive about it) are “lapsed” fans who gave up on BTE about half-way through the weekend. I notice that whenever the show is reported about on TV websites, you only need to glance down towards the comments and see several comments that Red Dwarf hasn’t been good since the early 90’s (and it’s not me making them!).

So I get the impression that BTE is either unpopular or just not widely seen (which is at odds with the viewership of 27 billion or whatever that Doug’s currently claiming for that Easter weekend ;-))

>Blade Runner inspired Back to Earth (obviously)

Maybe I need to listen to Doug’s commentary again, but I don’t recall him saying how it *inspired* him to come up with Back to Earth either. There’s not actually much in the dialogue that references Blade Runner, most of it is stylistic choices. There’s the origami and the DVD blurb that I can think of.

And that DVD blurb is…odd.

“Knowing they will die in the final episode the Dwarfers, in best Blade Runner traditions, decide to track down their creators to discover how long they have left to live.”

If “in best Blade Runner traditions” wasn’t there, how many people would actually think “Oh, just like Blade Runner”?. Not many, I wager. It seems shoe-horned in to explain the later stuff.

I just get the over-riding impression that the references came later…and got out of hand.

[Ben Paddon]

Having watched BtE over the weekend, I can confirm that Blade Runner is mentioned by name a few times in the scene with the Creator.

I didn’t mean to imply that Back to Earth exists because Doug wanted to “do” Blade Runner, but the structure of the story would have been completely different had Doug not consciously decided to base the special on that movie.

Another thing to consider with BtE: It wasn’t written for new viewers. It was written for fans. It was supposed to be a celebration, an anniversary special, which is why it’ll always piss me off when people accuse it of “ripping off” Back to Reality.

I’m not saying this approach is without flaws, obviously – considering the bulk of the show’s potential viewership would likely have been casual viewers it might have been more sensible to produce a special that stands on its own rather than being dependent upon callbacks and recycled jokes (which, in fairness, is the same reason I didn’t enjoy “Futurama: Bender’s Big Score” when I first watched it) but I do think complaining about the plot being predicated on rehashing an old story – arguably the show’s most popular and successful episode – is idiocy.

[Pete Part Three]

> It was supposed to be a celebration, an anniversary special, which is why it’ll always piss me off when people accuse it of “ripping off” Back to Reality.

I think a better way to celebrate a programme is to remind people of why it’s worth celebrating, not remind them of a previous episode.

>I do think complaining about the plot being predicated on rehashing an old story – arguably the show’s most popular and successful episode – is idiocy.

So you don’t think it’s a bit of a flaw that on watching BTE on the first time, it was painfully obvious how this was going to end as soon as squid ink got sprayed around five minutes into episode 1?

>the structure of the story would have been completely different had Doug not consciously decided to base the special on that movie.

Maybe I need to watch Blade Runner again too as I really don’t see many parallels beyond the stylistic homages in the final third..

>Another thing to consider with BtE: It wasn’t written for new viewers. It was written for fans..

..of Blade Runner.

I’m joking! :-) I realise some people love it who have never seen Blade Runner. To them I say, “go watch Blade Runner”.

[mick]

I have to judge any comedy on how much it makes me laugh, and continues to do so on further watches, I’ve never said I got no enjoyment out of BtE, on the contrary I did enjy waching it.
However for me personally it was really low on the amusement factor for the most part.

[Ben Paddon]

I think a better way to celebrate a programme is to remind people of why it’s worth celebrating, not remind them of a previous episode.

That depends, really. “The Five Doctors” is an example of an anniversary special that’s basically a cobbled-together “best bits” story that only barely stand son its own two feet. Stargate SG-1’s 100th episode, “Wormhole X-Treme”, is an absolutely ridiculous self-referential meta-story that wouldn’t mean anything to anybody who hadn’t seen the show before.

So you don’t think it’s a bit of a flaw that on watching BTE on the first time, it was painfully obvious how this was going to end as soon as squid ink got sprayed around five minutes into episode 1?

Firstly, you’re exaggerating. Ink wasn’t “sprayed around five minutes into episode 1”. In fact absolutely no ink was sprayed around at all – the only thing we see in the episode that could have been the ink is the purple gloop lightly covering the Dwarfers, and the visual clue is that the gloop is the squid’s blood, the result of Lister having hacked off a tentacle. In hindsight, yes, it’s ink, but the visual cues don’t match this.

And that happened about ten-to-fifteen minutes into the episode.

I win at debating.

[Author]

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