Bad Continuity in Gunmen

[Ben Saunders]

I’m sure everybody and their mum is already blatantly aware of this, but at the start of Gunmen, Rimmer is in his old, red, hard-light get-up. I thought this was a case of the episodes being in the wrong order/Gunmen being shot before Legion and him actually just being soft-light because he hadn’t touched anything by this point, but then Lister has that line about firing up his “hard-light drive” so what the FUCK.

And then when they come out of the AR machine, Rimmer is wearing his blue suit again for NO REASON.

It’s shit like this that really makes me hate Red Dwarf, honestly.

I don’t think I can even watch M-Corp after this.

[Pete Part Three]

The line itself was an attempt to fix the continuity mistake of Chris being in the wrong costume.

[Ben Saunders]

Was it really, hahaha. It did feel a bit tacked on, honestly. But it doesn’t really fix the continuity error because he still changes jackets at the end of the episode. Was all the blue jacket stuff pre-record ( or the red jacket stuff) or did they realise midway through the recording and change jackets like idiots?

[bloodteller]

watched the episode again to see what you were on about, and he changes into the blue (hardlight) uniform just before entering the wild-west AR simulation, then he’s still wearing the blue uniform when he leaves. i fail to see the problem

[Seb Patrick]

Yeah, it’s very simple: at the start of the ep he’s in soft-light mode to conserve power, then he switches to hard-light to be able to play the game. They literally say it in dialogue.

[Hamish]

Pardon me for being thick, but just because Rimmer has hard-light available does that mean he must have it on all of the time?

It is not like you see him touching anything with the red jacket on?

[Hamish]

And that, ladies and gentleman, is what happens when you fail to reload a thread.

Good points lads, well made.

[Ben Saunders]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnm do they say it in dialogue? I must have missed that line. It actually would make sense given the whole silent running thing. So was it a cock up quickly covered up with last minute dialogue, or not a cock up at all?

[pfm]

> So was it a cock up quickly covered up with last minute dialogue, or not a cock up at all?

Well, when your arse is on the line…best to get it sorted.

[pfm]

This whole debate clearly influenced Father Ted. ‘you were wearing your blue jumper’

[Pete Part Three]

>So was it a cock up quickly covered up with last minute dialogue, or not a cock up at all?

I think it’s stated in The Programme Guide that it’s last minute dialogue. It’s definitely *somewhere*. You can quote me on that.

And let’s face it; it seems like it s too. Rimmer’s power-source (his light-bee) is obviously independent from Starbug’s (he doesn’t switch from Blue > Red when they go to “silent running”, he’s already in red).

Would anyone be particularly fussed that they he was in blue, despite Starbug powering down? Unlikely. Would they get a ton of complaints if Rimmer could touch the gamepad while dressed in red? Probably.

[Seb Patrick]

>he doesn’t switch from Blue > Red when they go to “silent running”, he’s already in red)

Maybe he had already switched to soft light as part of the process of going to silent running, with Lister’s game being the last thing left?

I really don’t see the issue here. Legion makes it clear that soft light = red, hard light = blue. At the start of Gunmen they are in the process of powering down systems, so Rimmer has gone back to soft light. In order to play the game, he switches to hard light, something Lister explicitly says in the dialogue that they will do.

If the costumes were a continuity error, they’re an extremely fortunate one that fits the plot of the episode exactly.

(Now, as to why Rimmer has his hard light outfit in the Blue flashback, that’s another question…)

[Taiwan Tony]

Just don’t watch Gunmen of the Apocalypse. It’s not that good an episode anyway!

Troll mode: cancel.

[Pete Part Three]

>If the costumes were a continuity error, they’re an extremely fortunate one that fits the plot of the episode exactly.

It was. They were.

I’ll dig out the Programme Guide later, but it’s something like “…when someone on the crew pointed out that Chris was dressed in his original red costume, a line was hastily added to imply that he could switch between soft-light and hard-light”.

>I really don’t see the issue here.
My point is that if they really wanted to sell the point that Rimmer needs to power down to soft-light. they’d have done something with the idea in the scene itself. As it is we get a somewhat clunky line later that serves no actual purpose except to explain that he can switch between the two.

[Toxteth O-Grady]

>As it is we get a somewhat clunky line later that serves no actual purpose except to explain that he can switch between the two.
He also does it again much later in the series 10 episode where he switches to soft-light to walk through a wall (Entangled was it?). It’s nice that this ability was established in a bit of clunky dialogue 19 years earlier

[McAleeCh]

To be honest, at least with <i>Gunmen of the Apocalypse</i> they noticed the costume error and managed to add some dialogue to make sense of it! Whereas in <i>The Inquisitor</i>, Rimmer’s randomly wearing his green outfit from the previous two series (though with the newer serif-font “H”) for all scenes prior to Lister and Cat being erased from existence, only to switch to his regular Series V costume for the rest of the episode. Given that it wasn’t even shot first, and doesn’t seem to have been intended to go out first either, does anyone have any idea how exactly <i>that</i> gaffe happened?

[bloodteller]

given that when Rimmer’s green outfit changes to the red one, Cat’s outfit also changed, i always assumed it was to signify that these are the versions of Cat and Rimmer that no longer remember Lister and Kryten- the timelines have just been altered when the costume change happens

[McAleeCh]

That makes sense – but then if we’re following that logic, surely he should change back to green when the Inquisitor’s erased at the end of the episode?

If that was indeed the intention, since the red version was intended to be his regular outfit for Series V, they should have reversed the two and used his green outfit to signify that this is the Rimmer who doesn’t remember our Lister/Kryten – and obviously change him (and Cat?) back at the end!

…Maybe they just really, really wanted to use the no-jacket-and-braces version of his outfit in the opening scenes? I can’t recall ever seeing that being done with the red version of the outfit…

…Incidentally, although it’s off-topic, all this talk about Rimmer’s outfit has made me realise his most consistent look throughout the series is now the Series X-XII look – none of the others have lasted more than two series!

[Toxteth O-Grady]

I don’t think the Inquistor costume thing can really be counted as an error, unless you consider his colour change between series IV and V an error too.
Sometimes he’s in green and sometimes he’s in red. There doesn’t really need to be any logical reason behind it, so there’s really no error.
Isn’t there both a red and green hologram when the crew are interviewing Rimmer replacements in Holoship? Plus the Hologram-Camille was in red while Rimmer was in Green. I think it’s just a way of differentiating people onscreen (particularly in the Inquistor case).
In the real world, wasn’t the costume designer inspired by the Hologram-Camille to put Rimmer in red for series V?
One of the reasons the Rimmer munchkin scene from Blue is a highlight of the series for me, is the attention they put into the differing Rimmer costumes of the puppets!

[McAleeCh]

I guess you’re right re: it not really being an error as such – it just sticks out to me as it’s the only instance of him not wearing red in Series V! Good catch with the different-coloured holograms during the interviews in Holoship. = )

And yes, completely agree re: the munchkin song puppets! Wish they’d had a Series I-II version in there somewhere too, though that probably wouldn’t have looked spangly enough compared to all the others. XD

[Dave]

I just can’t believe no-one has mentioned the hard-light yellow outfit from Out Of Time yet.

[si]

What about the the hard-light yellow outfit from Out Of Time?

[si]

No, actually, what about the Rimmer from the double-double future, with the blazer and pencil moustache?

[International Debris]

(Now, as to why Rimmer has his hard light outfit in the Blue flashback, that’s another question…)

I always put it down to simply being a bit of an inaccurate memory, as it’s effectively Lister telling a story of them having fun. But maybe I can just deal with it better because it makes more sense than the blue uniforms in the Ouroboros flashback.

[Jawscvmcdia]

So can somebody explain why Rimmer is in a red costume in what is clearly a Series VII promotional shot?

[Katydid]

That configuration of the crew never existed anyway.

[Seb Patrick]

>So can somebody explain why Rimmer is in a red costume in what is clearly a Series VII promotional shot?

Because that’s the costume he wears throughout series VII?

[Jawscvmcdia]

Seb, doesn’t he wear a blue costume in Series VII?

[Katydid]

It’s called a light.

[International Debris]

Rimmer’s in four episodes of VII, and the only version of that padded costume he wears is blue. So that is an odd photo.

Mind you, the appearance of Kochanski in her JMC Blue Uniform That Nobody Ever Wore Other Than In That Scene getup whilst in Starbug is also odd.

It’s almost as if promo shots aren’t canon. :/

[Jawscvmcdia]

KyoSo, bring a light?

[Captain Bollocks]

“Sir, are you absolute sure? It does mean changing the [Rimmer’s costume].”

[(deleted)]

We worked this out a while back – that’s Chloe Annett’s first filming day (insert sequences for Ouroboros and Blue) and they wanted to do some press shots while Chris Barrie was still on the production so they threw together what they could on the day. Chris Barrie has been hastily thrown into his red VI costume changing out of his blue JMC uniform (to look more recognisably Rimmer-y, and perhaps the blue version was out of service or being prepped for another scene), Danny John-Jules is wearing a cobbled together non-canon Cat costume (my guess is that he was either playing alternate universe Cat that day or brought in specially) and Chloe’s wearing that because it’s the only costume she’s had that’s yet screen-ready. The Kryten costume looks a bit lop-sided, *possibly* because Robert Llewellyn had the gold version on (if they were shooting the alternates scene I just mentioned) and changed on the hoof.

[Seb Patrick]

>Seb, doesn’t he wear a blue costume in Series VII?

Nope, definitely red. I checked.

[Ben Paddon]

Um.

[MANI506]

Don’t make me watch VII again!

[Seb Patrick]

Seriously, it’s red.

[Lily]

OK, you clearly needed someone with too much time on their hands, and that person is me!

Series 1
Uniform
Undies, Uniform
Uniform
Uniform
Uniform
Undies, Uniform, PJs, Clive of India

Series 2
Uniform, Clive of India
Uniform, Arthur Dent
Uniform, Variety of clothes in BTL (also in game doesn’t have H until “my brain’s rebelled” line
Uniform, PJs, Suit
Uniform, PJs, PE Uniform
Cycling Lycra, Uniform

Series 3
Shiny Green with HHGTTG, Hot pink glitter suit, Noel Coward
Shiny Greeen, Quilted Green jacket with HUGE RD logo
Green tshirt and braces, Shiny Green, Give Quiche A Chance
Shiny Green, Grey silk PJs, Lister clothes (white tshirt, black jacket), green tshirt + braces,
Shiny Green, Green tshirt + braces,
Green tshirt + braces, Black tie suit, Shiny Green

Series 4
Shiny Green
Shiny Green
Shiny Green, Mountain goatherd, Prision uniform
Shiny Green
Silk PJs + dressing gown, Shiny Green
Green tshirt + braces, Shiny Green, US General uniform

Series 5
Shiny Red, Towel, Holoship uniform
Green tshirt + braces, Shiny Green, Shiny Red
White robe/Loin cloth, Shiny Red (No H until they lift off from Psymoon)
Shiny Red, Gingham Dress (No H in King Potatoe People scene)
Shiny Red, High/Low outfits
Shiny Red

Series 6
Quilted Red
Quilted Red LEGION APPEARS Quilted Blue
Quilted Red in several scenes then ‘powers up hard light drive’, Quilted Blue
Quilted Blue
Quilted Blue (last week version Quilted Red)
Quilted Blue, Quilted Yellow

Series 7
Blue quited with black line, Brown coat
Blue quited with black line, Ace (no H?)
Flashback Blue RD uniform,
N/A
Blue quited with black line
N/A
N/A
N/A

Series 8
Ignored, as not a hologram

BtE
Shiny Blue

Series 10
Shiny Blue, Trojan uniform
Shiny Blue
Shiny Blue, Dusty robes
Shiny Blue, Parka jacker
Shiny Blue
Shiny blue

Series 11
Shiny Blue, Suit
Blue PJs + dressing gown, Shiny Blue
Shiny Blue
Shiny blue, Clive of India
Blue PJs + dressing gown, Shiny Blue
Shiny Blue, Operating scrubs, Artic jacket

[Dave]

Quilted Red LEGION APPEARS

I don’t remember a quilted red Legion appearing.

[Lily]

Oh, I forgot to add that in Entangled when he switches to soft light, it’s a dodgy vis effect to make the blue suit look red. When he comes back out he’s blue again, but you see Chris give a little shimmy like he’s ‘changing back to hard light’. It was obviously too hard to put the red effect over him as he walked out the door so they left him blue and just randomly wiggling about.

[McAleeCh]

Pretty comprehensive list there Lily – thanks muchly! = D

One thing – I notice the list doesn’t differentiate between the Back to Earth and Series X-XII outfits, labelling both “shiny blue” even though they’re quite different takes on the same general concept. Otherwise it’s a pretty damn solid reference for all holo-Rimmer’s outfits, even noting the minor difference between the VI and VII “quilted blue” outfits! = )

[Lily]

I nearly did make a point that the BtE outfit was a terrible cut and fit, but considering colour was the main point that just seemed to be splitting hairs.

I think I actually like the series 3 outfits best. Having distinctly different sleeping, relaxing and working outfits seems more human than wearing the single same outfit 24 hours a day. Series 11/12 have at least bought back the PJs and dressing gown look, but tbh they don’t really -look- like PJs, just a blue shirt. There’s no real visual difference between them and the blue uniform.

It’s a shame, he clearly -can- change how he looks when the story demands it, so why keep him in one outfit all the time?

[Ridley]

<omg src””http://www.ganymede.tv/wp-content/uploads/beginning_review_1.jpg”&gt;

[Ridley]

Still a good joke.

[Bexley Heath]

Meticulous charting and discussion of Rimmer’s various costumes? This is the thread 7-year-old me would have been over the moon to discover.

30-year-old me’s pretty keen on it too.

[Seb Patrick]

Pfft, come back when you’ve done it for Cat. And screengrabbed every one.

http://www.reddwarf.co.uk/features/history/evolution-of-cats-costumes/index.cfm

[Seb Patrick]

I was joking about the red costume in VII, by the way, but nobody really took the bait.

[International Debris]

I was slightly hoping you’d get annoyed by us not taking the bait and then write an article on the official site about it to try and get us to bite. Didn’t happen, sadly.

[Lily]

Pfft, come back when you’ve done it for Cat. And screengrabbed every one.

A whole bunch of those are publicity shots! Speaking of which, this one – http://www.reddwarf.co.uk/features/history/evolution-of-cats-costumes/cat3-2.jpg – looks … odd.

[Ben Saunders]

For YEARS I thought Chris Barrie wasn’t wearing an H in that infamous VII publicity shot, and that his forehead was just incredibly shiny.

[Ben Paddon]

I figured you were joking, Seb, but I tripped over myself trying to find a way to “yes and” the gag.

[Ben Saunders]

Alright, actual bad continuity (maybe): the Simulant ship gets blown the fuck up in Gunmen, but is intact (on the outside) in Rimmerworld. I did think they cut away from the explosion distractingly quickly in Gunmen, but now I’m thinking it was deliberate.

I’m actually quite taken aback that we have real episode-to-episode, non two-parter continuity between two non-consecutive episodes in a series of Red Dwarf, with the same models and actors and everything. I hope it wasn’t laziness/cost effectiveness because I really like it.

[Hamish]

Yeah, that is why I quite like Rimmerworld. That is until you actually get to Rimmerworld and it becomes Terrorform II.

The teleporter gags good though.

[Ben Saunders]

It is a bit Terrorform II in places. Feels a bit Meltdown too, mostly because of the jail+music.

[Warbodog]

>real episode-to-episode, non two-parter continuity between two non-consecutive episodes in a series of Red Dwarf, with the same models and actors and everything.

Earlier examples that come to mind:

Same model: Meltdown matter paddle adapted into Demons & Angels triplicator

Same actors: series I & II flashback / time travel scenes, Kochanski in Psirens and earlier eps, Bonehead’s mum.

Series VI (mainly Emohawk) did seem to kick off the masturbatory continuity that made VII even more off-putting, with the return of the (different) Time Drive, Ace, the Kinitawowi in Ouroboros (for no reason) and the Back to Reality planet in Nanarchy. From series VIII, there’s generally been an anxiety of influence with callbacks and name-drops aplenty.

[Author]

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