Mundane observation dome

[Warbodog]

Do you have any miscellaneous insights on the series that may be worth contemplating for a few seconds before moving on with our lives? Here are some of mine.

1. The four regulars have names that can work any way around, though this would have been more obvious if David Ross had stayed and wouldn’t work if Chris Barrie used his real name.

2. The series’ lax attitude to continuity extends to the setting. Outside of Holly’s distress calls, I don’t think three million years is mentioned all that much after series I and before VI (not sure about later years). Instead, we get the extremely fudged “dead for centuries” and “travelling for thousands of years” – not actual retcons, but suggesting a more conventional setting for casual viewers tuning in and the sort of stories they’re telling. It’s only millions when they need it to be.

3. 200 years of stasis between series V and VI means that the earlier series took place in their equivalent of the early 19th century by comparison (e.g. Blackadder the Third). Since they didn’t run into a long-lived Camille or one of her great-great-etc grandchildren, it didn’t come up.

4. Although Lister is routinely slagged off in the series, he’s spared the level of seemingly authoritative character assassination that Rimmer gets, because the audience is aligned with Lister’s viewpoint most of the time. For example, we see Kochanski Camille belittling Rimmer’s interests, but we don’t get the equivalent of Hologram Camille reacting to Lister’s pickup lines, we’re left to form our own opinions on those. This flimsy point has not been considered much beyond this single example.

5. Cat’s costumes are overwhelmingly referenced more than anyone else’s in the series, but the least discussed by fans.

6. Ace Rimmer and Duane Dibbley were so seemingly ubiquitous in canon and tie-in merchandise through the 90s (Smegazine strips, T-shirts) that they still feel overused today, even though it’s been over 20 years since they appeared. Maybe they’re allowed back after all.

7. Only series III & V and maybe XI & XII (not as familiar with those) don’t have any sense of an arc whatsoever (though IV’s minor Kryten disobedience arc was already fucked up by episode shuffling). Series III is just about the only series where no episode directly references any previous episode, but it still has the Backwards scrolling text and general references to Rimmer having died and stuff.

8. One of the series’ most famous and quoted scenes – everybody’s dead, Dave – is a straight-up 2001: A Space Odyssey homage and would have been received that way at the time, but doesn’t work like that for most people coming to the episode later on or new viewers who are young or don’t watch old films.

9. Sometimes dismissed as lightweight and gimmicky today, Backwards was designed as an innovative interactive experience to reward extracurricular effort. As well as inviting fans to work out the backwards events and filming logistics, Arthur Smith’s eugolonom is teasingly long and “you scoundrels” is clearly a cleaned-up translation gag even before you’ve heard it. Unfortunately, by the time technology caught up with the intent and the ability to reverse media files properly on home computers became commonplace, Backwards Forwards came out and everyone just cheated with the walkthrough.

Imagine the quality of the musings I left out!

Topic

[Dave]

“Football Picture Story Monthly” *feels* like the title of a fictional publication that would be used as a joke in Red Dwarf, somehow (rather than a real thing published by D. C. Thomson). The cadence just seems to match.

[RunawayTrain]

 Edit: actually I might be mixing my memories up between Inspector Morse and one of the 90s BBC shows in which Patricia Routlege played the lead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetty_Wainthropp_Investigates
Assuming you also mean a detective show. Hyacinth as a detective sounds like an interesting watch.

I’ve been watching both Hetty Wainthropp Investigates and Keeping Up Appearances in the last few months, so could be from either or both  :)  Hetty Wainthropp Investigates is interesting as something of a 90s time capsule as well as the mystery solving aspect.  It has a lot of heart, really highly recommend it.

[Dave]

When the two Red Dwarfs appear in Demons & Angels, the pre-zoom versions are just shrunken versions of the final full image, including cutting off the entire bottom of the closer Red Dwarf with a straight crop. It’s only a split-second and a tiny image in the show but really obvious on the Smegadrive. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

This is one of those mundane observations that I’d always observed and just assumed everyone else had 

I always find the crop really distracting. It’s because it’s in the foreground and it’s cropped by the frame in the full zoom, but it’s probably be less distracting if it were the second ship further back

[Warbodog]

Didn’t notice, I’m probably always watching the gap between them to see if they’ll make them overlap, never remembering that they (checks Smega-Drive) don’t.

[ReddiShadow]

The four regulars have names that can work any way around, though this would have been more obvious if David Ross had stayed and wouldn’t work if Chris Barrie used his real name.

TIL that Chris Barrie isn’t his name – Christopher Brown. How had I never known this?

Brown Christopher sounds like if Alan Partridge did a blackface character. 

[Technopeasant]

In one of the Radio Times articles linked in the other thread Chris mentions basing his performance for Rimmer on his own brother Gordon.

https://i0.wp.com/stasis-leak.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/document_2022-09-26_191913.jpg?ssl=1

A) I had never heard that before.

B) His brother is presumably named Gordon Brown.

[tombow]

I’ve only just realised the similarity between Dr Who comics/Star Beast’s Meep and the Smegazine comic’s Geap. Apologies if everyone else noticed it – I haven’t heard the Dwarfcast on that issue

[Starbugger]

The four regulars have names that can work any way around, though this would have been more obvious if David Ross had stayed and wouldn’t work if Chris Barrie used his real name.

TIL that Chris Barrie isn’t his name – Christopher Brown. How had I never known this?

Brown Christopher sounds like if Alan Partridge did a blackface character. 

[tombow]

there are 2 brothers on the Reddit RD sub who claim to have read a draft of the film script years ago –

Paradroids : r/RedDwarf

Was a script ever written for the Red Dwarf feature film : r/RedDwarf

I was actually lucky enough to see the script back 22 or 23 years ago. I’ve talked about it in this comment, but seeing these pictures (which were included in the artwork folders) reminded my brother that once the boys landed on the Cat planet and dealt with the tyrannical Cat leader, they were then befriended by the Cat people, and went on to help the them in their fight against the paradroids, the true [antagonists] of the movie.

 the script was written, and it made it as far as being sent out to various movie producers and production companies, but no one funded it. I only know this because in roughly 2002 or 2003, I actually saw the script, and my brother read it! And not only was it the full movie script, but it also featured seven or eight folders with colour artwork showing the scenes and settings for most of the film, too

My brother was living in his in-laws house at the time in a sort of a house-sitting situation, and his in-law ran a movie production company and was sent the script when Doug was searching for a producer, so it was left at his house.

I was pretty young at the time and didn’t fully appreciate what we had managed to get our hands on, and sadly he doesn’t remember very much about the plot. I assume enough time has passed now to allow me to talk about it without spoiling anything or upsetting anyone, especially as The Promised Land used the main plot elements we can remember anyway… but essentially, the boys found a Cat planet, got captured by the tyrannical Cat leader, and at some point, somehow, Rimmer got trapped in a washing machine on spin-cycle. That’s it. That is all he remembers. I know. I’m sorry. We regret not keeping that smegging script every day of our lives!!

[ReddiShadow]

In the Re-Dwarf documentary, Videotape Editor Mark Wybourn explains the decision to lop bits of the show out for the Remastered versions:

Pacing of shows change. You know, what you used to do 20 years ago or 15 years ago, pacewise of a show now, could look tediously long.

New Remastereds should be due out in a year or two to fix the ancient, outdated pacing of Back to Earth and Series X.

[Doomitron]

There’s been a lot of times a supposed Red Dwarf movie script has gone up for auction on eBay or wherever and nobody really seriously considers it, there’s probably been at least one or two times an actual draft has been hawked off and nobody took the bait.

[Rushy]

Had a strange dream that my copy of Titan arrived with a little note that said Rob Grant had copyrighted the title “Red Dwarf: Titan” back in 1952.

Also, the main character of the book was someone called Thorne Xhrt. 

[tombow]

I suppose (regarding these script claims) the idea that it used big chunks of what would become Promised Land is new to me, I know those recent leaked storyboards had what looked like a Cat woman fighting Rimmer, but I don’t think we’ve ever had more indication of the cats playing a big role. So it would have been basically Promised Land wrapped around by The Beginning as a framing story. 

[Doomitron]

So it would have been basically Promised Land wrapped around by The Beginning as a framing story. 

Its more likely Naylor wrote several different plots for the movie considering he had a decade of free time to screenwrite, the Cat thing sounds like a completely different plot from the Homo sapienoid one he probably used for The Beginning.

[Rushy]

 Its more likely Naylor wrote several different plots for the movie 

I seem to recall Naylor saying that he had an entire closet full of disconnected Red Dwarf skits he’s written, which he occasionally goes through to consider whether to add them to an episode or not. So it is possible that he wrote a bunch of these for the film, and found a place for them in Promised Land. 

[Technopeasant]

Had a strange dream that my copy of Titan arrived with a little note that said Rob Grant had copyrighted the title “Red Dwarf: Titan” back in 1952.
Also, the main character of the book was someone called Thorne Xhrt. 

Given he was -3 in 1952 that’d been most impressive.

[International Debris]

Doug has said there isn’t a single movie script, but many which varied quite a bit. So who knows. 

Still feel like a book covering them with a couple of full scripts and bits of others and a load of behind the scenes stuff is, surely, a very good idea for a book that would sell fairly well. 

[evilmorwen]

Doug has said there isn’t a single movie script, but many which varied quite a bit. So who knows. 
Still feel like a book covering them with a couple of full scripts and bits of others and a load of behind the scenes stuff is, surely, a very good idea for a book that would sell fairly well. 

and throw in some concept art, you’ve got yourself a coffee table book!

[evilmorwen]

[Rushy]

Do people in these parts prefer John Lenahan or David Ross as the Toaster? 

[tombow]

So it would have been basically Promised Land wrapped around by The Beginning as a framing story. 

Its more likely Naylor wrote several different plots for the movie considering he had a decade of free time to screenwrite, the Cat thing sounds like a completely different plot from the Homo sapienoid one he probably used for The Beginning.

finding and teaming up with the cats in the middle section so they can defeat the enemy together in the end section seems like a common Hollywood plot (like the Ewoks etc), I can imagine that being how it would have gone. I suppose it would also explain Doug’s reluctance to deal with the cats in the series, if he was holding out for them to be in a movie.

[Technopeasant]

Do people in these parts prefer John Lenahan or David Ross as the Toaster? 

Lenahan personally. More sass.

So it would have been basically Promised Land wrapped around by The Beginning as a framing story.

[Rushy]

 Lenahan personally. More sass. 

Absolutely on the same page. Plus he got more varied jokes. 

[Ben Saunders]

Do people in these parts prefer John Lenahan or David Ross as the Toaster? 

Basically two different characters really. Lenehan was a generic machine for them to interact with that just happened to be primarily toast-related while Ross is a specific character who serves a specific function in a specific episode. They don’t even look the same and I don’t think I ever considered them the same character in my head, though I guess they are supposed to be.

[Warbodog]

After the Series IV DVD came out and I conventionally overwatched it, there was a point where the Toaster routine became genuinely annoying, then after more overwatching it became funny again like a Stewart Lee routine. The Series 1 Toaster has always just been okay. So I’d go with Ross for getting a more memorable part, but the Mechocracy reprise was so weak that it would have been better avoided.

[Warbodog]

This Talkie is also peak looping gif.

[Dave]

Basically two different characters really. Lenehan was a generic machine for them to interact with that just happened to be primarily toast-related while Ross is a specific character who serves a specific function in a specific episode. They don’t even look the same and I don’t think I ever considered them the same character in my head, though I guess they are supposed to be.

Yes, this. They’re quite different but both work well.

[tombow]

apparently this book has an essay on how Dwarf is “a missed opportunity in exploring post-gender relationships”… I’m thinking of trying to get a copy (not just for that, the whole book looks interesting)

[tombow]

yeah I don’t remember the pre White Hole toaster much but Ross is iconic

[Jonathan Capps]

apparently this book has an essay on how Dwarf is “a missed opportunity in exploring post-gender relationships”

Assuming this is about Parallel Universe, we’ve had a similar discussion on a DwarfCast, but ultimately concluded that it was a niche BBC sit-com in 1989 and so expecting too much is probably not very fair.

[Warbodog]

I’ve seen that on pirate ebook sites for years along with Gender and the Quest in British Science Fiction Television: An Analysis of Doctor Who, Blake’s 7, Red Dwarf and Torchwood, but since I don’t need sources for a dissertation I wasn’t interested.

[Warbodog]

For the record, the pre-White Hole toaster in the second book is described as “deep red” and prone to turning its browning knob as it thinks and to express its feelings, before the prop guys got on it.

[Technopeasant]

The Series I Toaster is into toast entirely because that’s all he was built to do. The Series IV one actually means it.

In general I like the drier humour of the machines in Series I acting just as flies on the wall as the crew goes about their day.

[Moonlight]

I agree, but in contrast one of the high points of VIII for me is the Tony Slattery vending machine being genuinely manic and insane in a way we haven’t really seen in other machines around the ship at that point. It’s VIII over-the-toposity but it’s a case where I feel that works as an escalation of what we’ve seen before, especially considering the feud is over something so petty.

[Moonlight]

[tombow]

I thought recently that some of the promotion of series 1 and 2 seems to hope that the skutters will almost become the mascot of the show, the cute character fans will end up wanting toys of etc. Yet they were phased out. I mean, when you think about it, they could have had them become villains for an episode and try to take over the ship, making them the “Dalek” of RD. Seems they were kind of abandoned as a potential iconic character 

[Warbodog]

Like Holly, they were kind of replaced by Kryten, who Rimmer recruits as his more reliable assistant/henchman on many occasions.

[Technopeasant]

In general I like the drier humour of the machines in Series I acting just as flies on the wall as the crew goes about their day.

[Moonlight]

Is Pree having a body instead of being a floating head moreso a pointed design decision to differentiate her from Holly, or is it moreso to facilitate the joke about Rimmer wanting to give her enormous tits?

[Rushy]

or is it moreso to facilitate the joke about Rimmer wanting to give her enormous tits?

It’s to accomodate the joke about the actress actually having the chest size Rimmer ordered. And it’s one of the best gags in the entire show

[Flap Jack]

It’s to accomodate the joke about the actress actually having the chest
size Rimmer ordered. And it’s one of the best gags in the entire show

One of the best gags in the entire show requires you to know the bra size of a guest star before you watch the episode?

[Dave]

Is Pree having a body instead of being a floating head moreso a pointed design decision to differentiate her from Holly, or is it moreso to facilitate the joke about Rimmer wanting to give her enormous tits?

The second one.

[Rushy]

One of the best gags in the entire show requires you to know the bra size of a guest star before you watch the episode?

The genius of Naylor cannot be understated

[Doomitron]

It’s to accomodate the joke about the actress actually having the chest size Rimmer ordered. And it’s one of the best gags in the entire show

Isn’t the gag that Kryten crops the screen so Rimmer can’t see her breasts not the actress actually having large breasts.

[Rushy]

It’s to accomodate the joke about the actress actually having the chest size Rimmer ordered. And it’s one of the best gags in the entire show

Isn’t the gag that Kryten crops the screen so Rimmer can’t see her breasts not the actress actually having large breasts.

Yes, that is the joke within the show. 
But the fact that the actress IRL has the cup size Rimmer asked for and Kryten prevents us from seeing it is too funny. 

[Warbodog]

The genius of Naylor cannot be understated

So, do you reckon:

a) Doug scripted the breast size lines and auditioned candidates to match the requirement (so the meta joke would work)

a1) Also that he was already planning on reusing the actress in a more visible role in a future series several years down the line to help make the joke clearer for those too lazy to do their research

b) He was so impressed by the actress’ bust that he was inspired to add those lines referencing them to the script

c) It was just a coincidence

[Rushy]

I think he added the joke about Rimmer wanting a computer with a big chest as an inside joke. I imagine the original exchange was just Rimmer dismissing the computer’s personality but insisting on her being blonde and 25. 

[Flap Jack]

I would regard the fact that Rebecca Blackstone has a 36D bra size as an Easter egg, not something that actually makes the joke funnier.

Like would Thanks for the Memory be funnier if we learned that Craig Charles had an ex-girlfriend called Lise in real life? This is just trivia.

[Rushy]

I would regard the fact that Rebecca Blackstone has a 36D bra size as an Easter egg, not something that actually makes the joke funnier. 

[Author]

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