Mundane observation dome

[Warbodog]

Do you have any miscellaneous insights on the series that may be worth contemplating for a few seconds before moving on with our lives? Here are some of mine.

1. The four regulars have names that can work any way around, though this would have been more obvious if David Ross had stayed and wouldn’t work if Chris Barrie used his real name.

2. The series’ lax attitude to continuity extends to the setting. Outside of Holly’s distress calls, I don’t think three million years is mentioned all that much after series I and before VI (not sure about later years). Instead, we get the extremely fudged “dead for centuries” and “travelling for thousands of years” – not actual retcons, but suggesting a more conventional setting for casual viewers tuning in and the sort of stories they’re telling. It’s only millions when they need it to be.

3. 200 years of stasis between series V and VI means that the earlier series took place in their equivalent of the early 19th century by comparison (e.g. Blackadder the Third). Since they didn’t run into a long-lived Camille or one of her great-great-etc grandchildren, it didn’t come up.

4. Although Lister is routinely slagged off in the series, he’s spared the level of seemingly authoritative character assassination that Rimmer gets, because the audience is aligned with Lister’s viewpoint most of the time. For example, we see Kochanski Camille belittling Rimmer’s interests, but we don’t get the equivalent of Hologram Camille reacting to Lister’s pickup lines, we’re left to form our own opinions on those. This flimsy point has not been considered much beyond this single example.

5. Cat’s costumes are overwhelmingly referenced more than anyone else’s in the series, but the least discussed by fans.

6. Ace Rimmer and Duane Dibbley were so seemingly ubiquitous in canon and tie-in merchandise through the 90s (Smegazine strips, T-shirts) that they still feel overused today, even though it’s been over 20 years since they appeared. Maybe they’re allowed back after all.

7. Only series III & V and maybe XI & XII (not as familiar with those) don’t have any sense of an arc whatsoever (though IV’s minor Kryten disobedience arc was already fucked up by episode shuffling). Series III is just about the only series where no episode directly references any previous episode, but it still has the Backwards scrolling text and general references to Rimmer having died and stuff.

8. One of the series’ most famous and quoted scenes – everybody’s dead, Dave – is a straight-up 2001: A Space Odyssey homage and would have been received that way at the time, but doesn’t work like that for most people coming to the episode later on or new viewers who are young or don’t watch old films.

9. Sometimes dismissed as lightweight and gimmicky today, Backwards was designed as an innovative interactive experience to reward extracurricular effort. As well as inviting fans to work out the backwards events and filming logistics, Arthur Smith’s eugolonom is teasingly long and “you scoundrels” is clearly a cleaned-up translation gag even before you’ve heard it. Unfortunately, by the time technology caught up with the intent and the ability to reverse media files properly on home computers became commonplace, Backwards Forwards came out and everyone just cheated with the walkthrough.

Imagine the quality of the musings I left out!

Topic

[Moonlight]

[Dave]

[Moonlight]

I only just heard the word “minotaur” spoken with a British accent outside of Samsara. I assumed that Rimmer was altering the pronunciation from “minnotaur” to “mine-otaur” for the pun, but apparently you people just talk like that.

Irrelevant, but “half a man who was full of bull” is a good line.

[Podey]

Do you pronounce Dinosaur as “dinnosaur”?

[Moonlight]

I do now.

[RunawayTrain]

Do you pronounce Dinosaur as “dinnosaur”?

I do now.

Excellent.

[Jenuall]

It derives from the Greek “Minos” which I think technically is pronounced more like the standard American approach to be fair.

Mine-otaur still sounds better to me though!

[Dave]

Arguably, a JMC employee could be considered a mine auteur.

[GlenTokyo]

It derives from the Greek “Minos” which I think technically is pronounced more like the standard American approach to be fair.

Mine-otaur still sounds better to me though!

In English doesn’t a vowel following a vowel in a word change the sound/extend the previous vowel or something. 

I feel like I was taught that at some point.

Prune is prooooon, water is woorter, mine is miiiiine etc

Could be a load of bollocks tbf, it’s been 16 years since I had an English lesson.

[Warbodog]

Google says ‘Mimas’ is similarly pronounced ‘My’ in British and ‘Me’ in American.

We should probably ask the Greeks.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Do ray me my mi mas far so lah etc

[International Debris]

The ‘mi’ is pronounced ‘me’ in Greek. So we’re all wrong.

[Starbugger]

[Formica]

In English doesn’t a vowel following a vowel in a word change the sound/extend the previous vowel or something.

English has no pronunciation rules, just pronunciation guidelines. You famously can’t be certain about how one word is pronounced just by looking for patterns in similar looking words.

[loadoftottnumb]

Dearest creature in creation
Studying English pronunciation,
   I will teach you in my verse
   Sounds like corpse, corps, horse and worse.

I will keep you, Susy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy;
   Tear in eye, your dress you’ll tear;
   Queer, fair seer, hear my prayer.

Pray, console your loving poet,
Make my coat look new, dear, sew it!
   Just compare heart, hear and heard,
   Dies and diet, lord and word.

Sword and sward, retain and Britain
(Mind the latter how it’s written).
   Made has not the sound of bade,
   Say–said, pay–paid, laid but plaid.

Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as vague and ague,
   But be careful how you speak,
   Say: gush, bush, steak, streak, break, bleak ,

Previous, precious, fuchsia, via
Recipe, pipe, studding-sail, choir;
   Woven, oven, how and low,
   Script, receipt, shoe, poem, toe.

Say, expecting fraud and trickery:
Daughter, laughter and Terpsichore,
   Branch, ranch, measles, topsails, aisles,
   Missiles, similes, reviles.

Wholly, holly, signal, signing,
Same, examining, but mining,
   Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
   Solar, mica, war and far.

From “desire”: desirable–admirable from “admire”,
Lumber, plumber, bier, but brier,
   Topsham, brougham, renown, but known,
   Knowledge, done, lone, gone, none, tone,

One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel.
   Gertrude, German, wind and wind,
   Beau, kind, kindred, queue, mankind,

Tortoise, turquoise, chamois-leather,
Reading, Reading, heathen, heather.
   This phonetic labyrinth
   Gives moss, gross, brook, brooch, ninth, plinth.

Have you ever yet endeavoured
To pronounce revered and severed,
   Demon, lemon, ghoul, foul, soul,
   Peter, petrol and patrol?

Billet does not end like ballet;
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
   Blood and flood are not like food,
   Nor is mould like should and would.

Banquet is not nearly parquet,
Which exactly rhymes with khaki.
   Discount, viscount, load and broad,
   Toward, to forward, to reward,

Ricocheted and crocheting, croquet?
Right! Your pronunciation’s OK.
   Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
   Friend and fiend, alive and live.

Is your r correct in higher?
Keats asserts it rhymes Thalia.
   Hugh, but hug, and hood, but hoot,
   Buoyant, minute, but minute.

Say abscission with precision,
Now: position and transition;
   Would it tally with my rhyme
   If I mentioned paradigm?

Twopence, threepence, tease are easy,
But cease, crease, grease and greasy?
   Cornice, nice, valise, revise,
   Rabies, but lullabies.

Of such puzzling words as nauseous,
Rhyming well with cautious, tortious,
   You’ll envelop lists, I hope,
   In a linen envelope.

Would you like some more? You’ll have it!
Affidavit, David, davit.
   To abjure, to perjure. Sheik
   Does not sound like Czech but ache.

Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, loch, moustache, eleven.
   We say hallowed, but allowed,
   People, leopard, towed but vowed.

Mark the difference, moreover,
Between mover, plover, Dover.
   Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
   Chalice, but police and lice,

Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label.
   Petal, penal, and canal,
   Wait, surmise, plait, promise, pal,

Suit, suite, ruin. Circuit, conduit
Rhyme with “shirk it” and “beyond it”,
   But it is not hard to tell
   Why it’s pall, mall, but Pall Mall.

Muscle, muscular, gaol, iron,
Timber, climber, bullion, lion,
   Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
   Senator, spectator, mayor,

Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
Has the a of drachm and hammer.
   Pussy, hussy and possess,
   Desert, but desert, address.

Golf, wolf, countenance, lieutenants
Hoist in lieu of flags left pennants.
   Courier, courtier, tomb, bomb, comb,
   Cow, but Cowper, some and home.

“Solder, soldier! Blood is thicker“,
Quoth he, “than liqueur or liquor“,
   Making, it is sad but true,
   In bravado, much ado.

Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
   Pilot, pivot, gaunt, but aunt,
   Font, front, wont, want, grand and grant.

Arsenic, specific, scenic,
Relic, rhetoric, hygienic.
   Gooseberry, goose, and close, but close,
   Paradise, rise, rose, and dose.

Say inveigh, neigh, but inveigle,
Make the latter rhyme with eagle.
   Mind! Meandering but mean,
   Valentine and magazine.

And I bet you, dear, a penny,
You say mani-(fold) like many,
   Which is wrong. Say rapier, pier,
   Tier (one who ties), but tier.

Arch, archangel; pray, does erring
Rhyme with herring or with stirring?
   Prison, bison, treasure trove,
   Treason, hover, cover, cove,

Perseverance, severance. Ribald
Rhymes (but piebald doesn’t) with nibbled.
   Phaeton, paean, gnat, ghat, gnaw,
   Lien, psychic, shone, bone, pshaw.

Don’t be down, my own, but rough it,
And distinguish buffet, buffet;
   Brood, stood, roof, rook, school, wool, boon,
   Worcester, Boleyn, to impugn.

Say in sounds correct and sterling
Hearse, hear, hearken, year and yearling.
   Evil, devil, mezzotint,
   Mind the z! (A gentle hint.)

Now you need not pay attention
To such sounds as I don’t mention,
   Sounds like pores, pause, pours and paws,
   Rhyming with the pronoun yours;

Nor are proper names included,
Though I often heard, as you did,
   Funny rhymes to unicorn,
   Yes, you know them, Vaughan and Strachan.

No, my maiden, coy and comely,
I don’t want to speak of Cholmondeley.
   No. Yet Froude compared with proud
   Is no better than McLeod.

But mind trivial and vial,
Tripod, menial, denial,
   Troll and trolley, realm and ream,
   Schedule, mischief, schism, and scheme.

Argil, gill, Argyll, gill. Surely
May be made to rhyme with Raleigh,
   But you’re not supposed to say
   Piquet rhymes with sobriquet.

Had this invalid invalid
Worthless documents? How pallid,
   How uncouth he, couchant, looked,
   When for Portsmouth I had booked!

Zeus, Thebes, Thales, Aphrodite,
Paramour, enamoured, flighty,
   Episodes, antipodes,
   Acquiesce, and obsequies.

Please don’t monkey with the geyser,
Don’t peel ‘taters with my razor,
   Rather say in accents pure:
   Nature, stature and mature.

Pious, impious, limb, climb, glumly,
Worsted, worsted, crumbly, dumbly,
   Conquer, conquest, vase, phase, fan,
   Wan, sedan and artisan.

The th will surely trouble you
More than r, ch or w.
   Say then these phonetic gems:
   Thomas, thyme, Theresa, Thames.

Thompson, Chatham, Waltham, Streatham,
There are more but I forget ’em–
   Wait! I’ve got it: Anthony,
   Lighten your anxiety.

The archaic word albeit
Does not rhyme with eight-you see it;
   With and forthwith, one has voice,
   One has not, you make your choice.

Shoes, goes, does *. Now first say: finger;
Then say: singer, ginger, linger.
   Real, zeal, mauve, gauze and gauge,
   Marriage, foliage, mirage, age,

Hero, heron, query, very,
Parry, tarry fury, bury,
   Dost, lost, post, and doth, cloth, loth,
   Job, Job, blossom, bosom, oath.

Faugh, oppugnant, keen oppugners,
Bowing, bowing, banjo-tuners
   Holm you know, but noes, canoes,
   Puisne, truism, use, to use?

Though the difference seems little,
We say actual, but victual,
   Seat, sweat, chaste, caste, Leigh, eight, height,
   Put, nut, granite, and unite.

Reefer does not rhyme with deafer,
Feoffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
   Dull, bull, Geoffrey, George, ate, late,
   Hint, pint, senate, but sedate.

Gaelic, Arabic, pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific;
   Tour, but our, dour, succour, four,
   Gas, alas, and Arkansas.

Say manoeuvre, yacht and vomit,
Next omit, which differs from it
   Bona fide, alibi
   Gyrate, dowry and awry.

Sea, idea, guinea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
   Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean,
   Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion with battalion,
   Rally with ally; yea, ye,
   Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, key, quay!

Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, receiver.
   Never guess-it is not safe,
   We say calves, valves, half, but Ralf.

Starry, granary, canary,
Crevice, but device, and eyrie,
   Face, but preface, then grimace,
   Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.

Bass, large, target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, oust, joust, and scour, but scourging;
   Ear, but earn; and ere and tear
   Do not rhyme with here but heir.

Mind the o of off and often
Which may be pronounced as orphan,
   With the sound of saw and sauce;
   Also soft, lost, cloth and cross.

Pudding, puddle, putting. Putting?
Yes: at golf it rhymes with shutting.
   Respite, spite, consent, resent.
   Liable, but Parliament.

Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew, Stephen,
   Monkey, donkey, clerk and jerk,
   Asp, grasp, wasp, demesne, cork, work.

A of valour, vapid vapour,
S of news (compare newspaper),
   G of gibbet, gibbon, gist,
   I of antichrist and grist,

Differ like diverse and divers,
Rivers, strivers, shivers, fivers.
   Once, but nonce, toll, doll, but roll,
   Polish, Polish, poll and poll.

Pronunciation-think of Psyche!-
Is a paling, stout and spiky.
   Won’t it make you lose your wits
   Writing groats and saying “grits”?

It’s a dark abyss or tunnel
Strewn with stones like rowlock, gunwale,
   Islington, and Isle of Wight,
   Housewife, verdict and indict.

Don’t you think so, reader, rather,
Saying lather, bather, father?
   Finally, which rhymes with enough,
   Though, through, bough, cough, hough, sough, tough??

Hiccough has the sound of sup…
My advice is: GIVE IT UP!

Gerard Nolst Trenité – The Chaos (1922)

[Unrumble]

Google says ‘Mimas’ is similarly pronounced ‘My’ in British and ‘Me’ in American.
We should probably ask the Greeks.

[RunawayTrain]

In English doesn’t a vowel following a vowel in a word change the sound/extend the previous vowel or something. 
I feel like I was taught that at some point.

Yes, usually if they have a single consonant between them – but lots of the rules change depending on specific combinations … it’s almost as if English ncorporated a ton of vocabulary from other languages with different rules, or something!

That said, mine-otaur and meen-otaur both follow the vowel lengthening rule.  Minn-otaur doesn’t. 

Rhinoceros, dinosaur, but not crocodile, menagerie, or even animal.

(And then (some) Americans pronounce Annika and Andrea as Ahn- ???  But not Andy ???  Although Brits do it for André, Ahn-/Ohn-.  What a ridiculous mishmash we speak.)

[Stabbim]

and not an accent mark to be found anywhere.  Umlauts?  Tildes? Forget about it.  You’re on your own (more or less).

[Dave]

I’d never seen that poem before, loadoftottnumb – it’s great. 

[Podey]

Finally something I was taught at school has come in useful!

https://youtu.be/bZhl6YcrxZQ?si=v_pKndVmlTis6heB

[Podey]

Speaking of school, did anyone else’s sex education comprise almost exclusively of being shown this video from the makers of Spitting Image?

https://youtu.be/fz86g-S3OJI?si=yXhSF0enG-DWtoSD

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Speaking of school, did anyone else’s sex education comprise almost exclusively of being shown this video from the makers of Spitting Image?

No.

[Boy Was I Suckered… Into Using my Kidneys as a Full Stop]

I keep thinking of Kryten’s “however the others are not so hampered” to Psiren-Mamet when i read about the guys with guns that our Loonie friends well to the left in the USA have hired to protect Drag Storytime Hour because as they are decent people, they will be hesitant to open fire but those _other_ Loonies over on the right will indeed not be so hampered. Darkly funny in a way if you have Adam Bandt as your local MP as i do. Bandt and his parliamentarians state they prefer to get their news about the current conflict from Al-Jazeera, the propaganda arm of the government of Qatar, principal state sponsor (along with Iran) of Hamas. I think this takes the definition of “useful idiots” to a whole new level.

[Formica]

I keep thinking

I’m not too sure you do.

[Boy Was I Suckered… Into Using my Kidneys as a Full Stop]

Sorry i forgot the Ban on Politics.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

There’s no ban. But the post is completely irrelevant to the thread and just meanders around sensitive topics without making any point. 

Even if there was we do tend to keep things light hearted around here so it’s quite out of place. 

[Flap Jack]

Hey now, who among us didn’t see Kryten being forced into a waste compactor by a Psiren and end up thinking about MPs over-relying on Al Jazeera as a news source.

[Ridley]

Mime arse, actually.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

[Nick R]

[Boy Was I Suckered… Into Using my Kidneys as a Full Stop]

Fridge logic: Why does Lister bother saving “page 61” if he thinks there is still hope of rescue? He can have Holly call up the 1960s film adaption from the RD cinema’s library if he wants.

 

[Warbodog]

Last night I dreamed that for some inexplicable reason all forum posts on G&T started veering into illustrated paedophilia discussions out of nowhere.

[Dave]

Last night I dreamed that for some inexplicable reason all forum posts on G&T started veering into illustrated paedophilia discussions out of nowhere.

This is just you trying to resurrect the Noncey Details meme, isn’t it.

[Flap Jack]

Well for a start Rimmer was the one trying to save the books, not Lister.

Red Dwarf surely would have a digital version of the Complete Works of Shakespeare too (which would have been a better example to use, if you wanted to dodge accusations of being obsessed with this one topic), so clearly Rimmer is just a strong advocate for the historical importance of physical media.

For Lolita, there’s a chance Red Dwarf doesn’t have that in its digital library, and an even greater chance it doesn’t have the movie version. But it’s also possible that Rimmer was too embarrassed to request it from Holly to find out.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Complete Works of Shakespeare too (which would have been a better example to use, if you wanted to dodge accusations of being obsessed with this one topic), 

Romeo and Juliet enter the chat. 

[loadoftottnumb]

I’d never seen that poem before, loadoftottnumb – it’s great. 

Yeah I love it, I only saw it for the first time the other day myself. 

[Dave]

But it’s also possible that Rimmer was too embarrassed to request it from Holly to find out.

Although of course Holly is the one generating that thought in his head.

[Flap Jack]

Romeo and Juliet enter the chat.

“I only read it for the histories, I swear!”

Although of course Holly is the one generating that thought in his head.

True, but it’s fair to assume that Holly isn’t consciously aware of all Rimmer’s thoughts, and the hologram projection suite might even work in such a way that she couldn’t even check them if she wanted to.

But either way Rimmer couldn’t acknowledge it, lest he have a Promised Land-esque existential crisis.

[Warbodog]

Well for a start Rimmer was the one trying to save the books, not Lister.
Red Dwarf surely would have a digital version of the Complete Works of Shakespeare too (which would have been a better example to use, if you wanted to dodge accusations of being obsessed with this one topic), so clearly Rimmer is just a strong advocate for the historical importance of physical media.

You forgot to include an image to aid our understanding.

[Flap Jack]

I was going to, but I was worried it would be too sexy for G&T.

[Warbodog]

I only just noticed this is the same person who turned the Jake Abraham thread into a best deaths contest. The Oswald profile should have been a clue.

[Boy Was I Suckered… Into Using my Kidneys as a Full Stop]

I just hate Lister. Plus, Gerry Adams should have stuck to using that actor’s voice.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

In the words of Peter Cook, “What a wonderful old chap Shakespeare was. Bald but sexy.”

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Bald but sexy

Hello

[Formica]

an even greater chance it doesn’t have the movie version.

It’s certainly not out of the question for RD to have on file the relatively small complete works of Stanley Kubrick.

[Flap Jack]

Who?

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Same vibe

[Boy Was I Suckered… Into Using my Kidneys as a Full Stop]

Hey, anyone remember Adrian Rigelsford and his  “never before published” post-mortem interview with Kubrick (and with William Hartnell and Roger Delgado)?

http://film.guardian.co.uk/features/featurepages/0,4120,1354540,00.html

[Nick R]

Same vibe

[Moonlight]

Hello

[Author]

Replies