Refresh For The Memory: Series V Byte 2

[Ian Symes]

You asked for it. Ahead of the forthcoming 35th anniversary poll, the G&T community is embarking on a big old rewatch, tackling half a series (or one feature length special) per week. This is your designated thread to make notes, share observations and start pondering your rankings.

This week, we’re watching QUARANTINE, DEMONS & ANGELS and BACK TO REALITY. Have at it!

Previous threads:

Series 1 Byte 1
Series 1 Byte 2
Series 2 Byte 1
Series 2 Byte 2
Series III Byte 1
Series III Byte 2
Series IV Byte 1
Series IV Byte 2
Series V Byte 1

[Dave]

Ah well I guess we had to have a rubbish Byte eventually.

[Stilianides]

Quarantine

Another very high quality episode from a generally strong season.

The opening model shot looks very impressive and Series V must be a contender for one of the best looking series that the show has made.

I don’t love the opening scene of Rimmer being ignored by Lister and the Cat, but it does make his later behaviour more understandable. As does the dialog about them operating a timeshare system.

I do love the grimness of the warning sign on the wall (I feel Rob’s influence again), and the line, “Why is it we never meet anyone who can shoot straight?” is a classic.

Very smart of Rob and Doug to explain why being in Quarantine is so different from their regular situation. If they hadn’t, viewers would have moaned eternally.

The final ten minutes contains plenty of iconic ideas and laugh out loud moments.

[Warbodog]

Couldn’t resist watching all these bad boys already, but I’ll hold back to attempt the art of conversation.

Quarantine was probably my least anticipated episode of its byte when I finally got to see some of the much-hyped series V after all the other BBC series (save the odd episode here and there), but I decided it was my new favourite episode on the spot, and that first impression stuck.

I couldn’t really argue that it’s better than Back to Reality, White Hole or several other episodes, and its position as my all-time number one is partly a tradition at this point, but we don’t have to be totally clinical and unemotional about this.

Even I’m still somehow surprised at how popular it is, placing consistently top 5 in all the public polls ever. It doesn’t seem to have the strongest hook or to do anything better than any other episode, but it’s clearly doing a lot of things right.

I started a thread to get some insights the last time I watched it, so I’ll try not to repeat myself.

– A seasonally appropriate Red Dwarf Halloween Special, with an undead mad scientist emerging from a crypt howling like a werewolf to a cheesy horror sting and the guys all getting dressed up.

– It’s a Rimmer episode on the surface, but also a good one for Kryten, showing some satisfying development in his relationship with Rimmer (he was still his reluctant chauffeur as recently as the last episode) as he naturally usurps his role-by-rank as a more competent and respected de facto leader and better companion to keep Lister sane (after Cat proved unsatisfactory in series III).

– Does the phrase “remote projection unit” retrospectively solve a whole load of bullet points, or are they just continuing to make this up as they go along?

– There are lots of great funny stretches, but my top pick goes from the Most Gross Danger reveal to the psi-scan results. Peak Llewellyn.

– Assuming the guys wore spacesuits to get to the research base and left them in the airlock, as per Parallel Universe etc.

– Rimmer’s “crimson short one” is a nice companion to Ace’s “small rouge one,” showing further connections between the Rimmers.

– It could be intended as an ambiguous clue, but I don’t think Rimmer needs to be virally mad/evil to instigate the quarantine plot. They pissed him off and are getting their sprouty desserts. He doesn’t even really give a shit if they die when abandoning them to “further developments.”

– What “backup” did they want Rimmer to provide anyway? Talk to Holly if you need Starbug moving.

– “Hex vision” is clearly the well-known term for shooting lightning bolts out of your eyes. Maybe a popular film of their time coined it.

– Kryten pronounces “leisure” inconsistently between scenes.

– The quarantine tension is heightened for comic effect, but Kryten threatening to end Lister’s life if he blows his nose is still a bit much!

– Always loved the intentionally convenient and speedy resolution, with Lister bumping over the things they need and finally realising he might as well just reach into his pocket or pluck it from the air. The actual ending is a bit silly, but efficient comeuppance.

[Jenuall]

It could be intended as an ambiguous clue, but I don’t think Rimmer needs to be virally mad/evil to instigate the quarantine plot. They pissed him off and are getting their sprouty desserts. He doesn’t even really give a shit if they die when abandoning them to “further developments.”

This is something I’ve considered a few times over the years, was Rimmer’s behaviour already being impacted by the virus which is why he quarantined them on return or would “normal” Rimmer have done it anyway? I think given the general nature of the character and how much he had been pushed by the others prior to his contact with Lanstrom, along with getting his hands on the Space Core Directive Manual that he would have done the same thing anyway out of spite!

[Warbodog]

Yeah, “he who lives by the rulebook, dies by the rulebook” is before he talks to Lanstrom, and he doesn’t cause any actual harm until we cut to several days later when he’s already nuts. We’d need a scene in the middle to see signs of progress.

[International Debris]

Quarantine

Superb model shot at the start. 

“Remote projection unit”? Rimmer’s state gets a bit more confusing. 

You’d think Rimmer would have memorised the Space Corps Directive Manual. 

Smee Hee – the first time a gag from a previous series has been repeated? 

Opening scene is really quite tense and unpleasant. 

“And we’re going to… live” is another all-time favourite gag of mine. 

It looks like Kryten says something after Landstrom says “life without pain has no meaning”. 

Holly getting some great dialogue there. She does some amazing face acting while Rimmer is on the radio though. 

How does a hologram get a psy-virus when holograms are just computers? 

Feckles, heckles, hackles, schmeckles will never be anything other than the intro to Noise from the Dwarf to me now. 

Chris plays scary Rimmer really, really well. 

The large dose of luck virus is about the same amount as the tiny dose Lister received earlier. 

This is the least involved Holly has been in any episode, I think. Two lines, maybe three? 

Danny looks so uncomfortable in the last shot. 

Theme watch: still continuing with the III version. 

Quarantine was my favourite episode for a very long time. Mr. Flibble made quite an impact on my young brain.

[International Debris]

Rimmer definitely puts them into Quarantine before he’s ill. It’s signposted by him getting the Space Corps Directive Manual, and is also pure Rimmer. I think a reading of it being his madness would actually detract from it.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Smee Hee – the first time a gag from a previous series has been repeated?

If you recall, Series II’s Stasis Leak used a variation on the “the same IQ as” gag from Holly’s opener in Future Echoes. Can’t say I’m surprised if you forgot that, the episode itself was worth forgetting anyway. And I say that as someone who used to really enjoy it before I got wise to just how botched it was in the execution.

[Flap Jack]

I’d say Smee Hee is more of a callback than a repeat, because Kryten saying Smee Hee is just the punchline. The set up wasn’t repeated. The P.E. teachers/car park attendants gag is more of a repeat because it is the whole thing (even if they did change is slightly).

If we’re talking repeated gags in Series V, in The Inquisitor Lister angrily recites multiple old gags about Rimmer directly to his face (Judas, Samaritans, Swimming Certificate). Again though, that probably counts more as a callback.

In my view,

Repeat = remembering the original makes it worse.

Callback = remembering the original makes it better (or at least doesn’t make it worse on balance).

[Jenuall]

“Two minor drawbacks” first shows up in IV and is then reused in V – it’s a riff on the same structure rather than a straight repeat, which we obviously get quite a bit of overall. If we’re talking “joke construct” repetition then we must get about a million simile jokes in the whole run!

[International Debris]

Yes, maybe callback is the thing I’m referring to. I was thinking of Doug Dwarf’s tendency to rely on old gags, which is something the bubble didn’t do very often. 

I did forget the ones in The Inquisitor, though. That does have a little more narrative purpose I suppose. 

Smee Hee feels like it could have become a catchphrase (it almost felt like one when I was a kid). Kryten says it more times than Frazer days “we’re all doomed” in Dad’s Army. 

Edit: why is the line and paragraph spacing fucked here?

[Flap Jack]

Edit: why is the line and paragraph spacing fucked here?

One of the text editor’s many quirks is that it’s often temperamental about whether or not it’ll automatically put in the paragraph tags. On mobile I often find myself adding an extra line break then removing it, because that seems to trigger it.

[Jenuall]

[Flap Jack]

Quarantine – An all time great, and this rewatch definitely hasn’t taken the shine off. I placed it 5th in my Pearl Poll submission, and I think I stand by that. (Although I did controversially place it 2 spots below The Inquisitor; I really like The Inquisitor, folks.) One thing that did stick out to me though is that it’s very much a pure fun adventure type story rather than a character focused one. The seeds of a character story are laid out with Rimmer objecting to Kryten usurping his authority and Rimmer taking revenge for being disrespected, but it’s derailed by the holo-virus turning Rimmer into a homicidal maniac (and Lister saying “Rimmer’s right, you’ve changed” to Kryten is clearly just about the stresses of quarantine and not a sincere agreement). But that’s not a criticism, because everything in the episode is just so good. Chris Barrie in particular is really giving his all with the out of character Rimmer performances, both pre and post gingham. The only real disappointment is that this is yet another episode where Hattie gets nothing to do.

– The “remote projection unit” is intriguing, if only we got more information. It could be how Rimmer gets projected independently of Red Dwarf (meaning they don’t need Red Dwarf to do it and could theoretically have 2 holograms as long as one of them was on Starbug), or it could be how Rimmer is projected on Starbug from Red Dwarf, like as a relay (meaning the one hologram limit still applies). If Rimmer getting in an escape pod to go back to Red Dwarf on his own actually achieves anything though, then it must be the former. But if it is the former, then surely they could just keep Starbug and the remote projection unit powered on all the time to have 2 holograms, even when Starbug is in dock. The conundrum of the 1 hologram limit is inescapable.

– I wonder if they’ve actually found a way to get around Rimmer saying no to being switched off, or they’re just hoping that he’ll begrudgingly agree to time-share with Lanstrom eventually.

– They didn’t need to send Rimmer away. They could have just turned off Lanstrom’s light bee to bring her back to the ship. Or they could have left her switched on, but Lister could have surprised Rimmer with his “Holly, give me his light bee” command, since Meltdown revealed he can just do that apparently.

– The escape pod shot is just a repeat of the ore pod shot from Terrorform. Which is fine, because model shots must get repeated all the time, but I don’t usually notice it. It’s probably just that we don’t see the escape pod much.

– No way does Lister’s first dose of luck virus last 3 minutes. I wouldn’t trust Kryten with my medicine after that blunder. Unless… what if it actually hadn’t run out, but Lister secretly wanted to hit Kryten with that dart? Although that would only have given some extra seconds, because Holly failing to stop Rimmer from trapping them straight after isn’t very lucky.

– Rimmer isn’t quite going by the book at first, because he only gives them provisions for 1 registered crew member, Lister, when Kryten is also registered crew. As confirmed in The Inquisitor, he’s Additional 001. But perhaps there’s a different rule for mechanoid crew members, like they only need a cabinet and a power socket or something.

– Rimmer’s food provisions are especially vindictive, that he was planning for Lister and Cat to have to share 1 person’s worth of food for 3 months. And the inaugural dinner of soup and salad doesn’t make it sound like the portions were generous. They would be dangerously malnourished, even if they learned to love sprouts. I have to believe that before the holo-virus took hold, he was only planning to leave them in there for a few days to make his point.

– Boys from the Dwarf!

– Rimmer must have done something major to Holly and outright shut her down, because in earlier stories she had direct control over him (most notably, of course, in Meltdown), and surely she would stop him going on a murderous rampage. I wonder how he did this, given that in the past he’s always needed to go via Holly to get Red Dwarf to do stuff. Skutters can only do so much.

– Interesting that Cat references Frankenstein, but it’s totally clear that he means the Mary Shelley character and not the ancestor of his species.

– Love that the film they get given to watch is blatantly just a normal VHS.

– The holovirus is a nonsense of multiple levels. Saying that it unlocks dormant areas of the brain and that this gives the patient hex vision and telekinesis is already nonsense, but this also affecting people who don’t have a real brain is double nonsense. The holovirus is just magic.

– The luck virus is also just magic, though I appreciate that they at least stick to it doing things that genuinely could happen by chance.

– At the very end when they’re giving Rimmer a taste of his own medicine, Kryten is the only one who does a little spin. Thank you Kryten for going that extra mile.

[Warbodog]

Interesting that Cat references Frankenstein, but it’s totally clear that he means the Mary Shelley character and not the ancestor of his species.

Rimmer must have done something major to Holly and outright shut her down

[International Debris]

Yeah, the lack of Holly in the second half is really quite jarring. It’s got to be the most Holly-lite episode to date, we don’t actually see her at all once Starbug arrives back on Red Dwarf. 

You know, pettily vindictive as Rimmer is, he does have a point (before he goes mad): Kryten is clearly willing to ignore Space Corps regulations about quarantine, so it does seem like he only brings them out to chastise Rimmer.

Edit: it’s uglified my post again. I’ve tried removing the ‘div’ tags it applied to my second paragraph, but they just get readded again.

[Warbodog]

I used to be pretty down on Demons & Angels, putting it almost at the bottom of the bubble, but I like it more on each rewatch, and it might have the most improved position so far. It might even have overtaken Terrorform to no longer be my least best of V. What a run!

Like Terrorform, the brilliant opening third is my favourite bit by far, but I don’t think it drops off as much as something like Parallel Universe.

It does get a bit too nasty at times, and the grimness that puts some people off The Inquisitor is squarely here for me, but it’s a solid adventure/survival race that commits to its style whether you like it or not.

It also contains my favourite shot from all of Red Dwarf:

– Adapting the matter paddle is very satisfying continuity for those who get it.

– Rimmer’s attempted betrayal is more satisfying coming so soon after they all risked their lives for him in Terrorform.

– Even more than in Quarantine, Kryten’s oxygen depletion estimate of seven minutes seems really short. Even if they didn’t have time to bring some air tanks or whatever they normally do before departing, wouldn’t it take a while to use up the oxygen already circulating in the ship?

– Their stiff upper lips and wisecracking in the face of catastrophe is inspiring. No one even suggests turning Rimmer off for a while, because they’re in it together. What guys.

– I was always bothered about how unrecognisable and extreme the alternate selves were, but that’s the whole point and it’s clearly explained to us on several occasions. I was probably too fixated on the Lows’ examples of Lister’s out-of-character misdeeds, but they could just be talking about naughty kids generally.

– I’m still not sure how the alts actually work. Rather than having, from their perspective, suddenly changed from their old selves to these new selves, they seem to have an extrapolated virtual history as a group. Or it’s something to do with alternate universes.

– The scenes on Low Dwarf are kind of a Polymorph II, with twisted versions of the characters skulking around a box labyrinth.

– Low Rimmer’s obviously the funniest, but Craig really inhabits Low Lister and makes Remote-Control Lister a convincing puppet. Maybe Peak Charles.

– Holy fuck, how was I never obsessed with Goth Holly?

– A better funny ending than Quarantine’s. They really rebounded from those series IV endings, didn’t they?

[Warbodog]

The holovirus is a nonsense of multiple levels.

Holograms have “life-force,” alright?

[International Debris]

– Even more than in Quarantine, Kryten’s oxygen depletion estimate of seven minutes seems really short. Even if they didn’t have time to bring some air tanks or whatever they normally do before departing, wouldn’t it take a while to use up the oxygen already circulating in the ship?

It definitely feels like another step on the road to VI. They clearly got a kick out of the bleak desperation of some of V’s moments, and this feels like a key one. It’s almost as if Rob said to Doug “what if it was like Demons & Angels, only they don’t have another ship to just get back to?” There are strong similarities with the start of Emohawk.

[Flap Jack]

Random Blu-ray (and probably also DVD) life hack I somehow only just thought to take advantage of this week: if you stop the disc just before the end of an episode rather than from the menu, the next time you boot it up it’ll resume where you left off and ultimately get to the menu way faster, without any of that lark of showing you BBC logo animations and shit. And it even remembers if you had subtitles enabled.

This discovery will save me minutes of time across the whole rewatch.

[Unrumble]

My top pick goes from the Most Gross Danger reveal to the psi-scan results. Peak Llewellyn.

“And we’re going to… live” is another all-time favourite gag of mine.

Agreed on both points, that punchline might actually be my favourite Kryten moment, top 5 overall moment for sure.

[Unrumble]

Interesting that Cat references Frankenstein, but it’s totally clear that he means the Mary Shelley character and not the ancestor of his species.

[Stilianides]

Demons and Angels

This is, to me, the 36th best episode of Dwarf.

The first several times I watched this ep I was unaware of the production issues, but it always felt strangely lacking in energy and spark. Now that we know about all of the reshoots and how unhappy Rob and Doug clearly were, it makes perfect sense.

The opening scenes do have some life to them (and the model shoots look great), but the “Less time than it takes a Norwegian…” line brings to mind the feeble simile gags in Series VII and VIII. Not sure why they felt it was worth keeping in…

Rimmer’s, “Ok home boys, let’s posse!” is a tad cringeworthy.

Enjoyable performances from the cast members, including Hattie, as the high versions. Not that the characters are particularly detailed, but they are entertaining enough in a superficial way.

I don’t find the scenes with the low members too dark, but this is where the lack of energy in the episode really strikes. One of the most amusing moments (unintentionally) is Robert desperately jabbing the tank to prove the tarantula is real, but I don’t feel any real tension in the scene. Lister eating an obviously fake spider or having obviously not boiling water poured over his love spuds doesn’t really do anything for me.

The revelations about Lister’s youth don’t seem all that out of character as he has always been portrayed as having some less than desirable qualities.

Not a terrible episode by any means, but not one that I love to revisit.

[Rudolph]

– The escape pod shot is just a repeat of the ore pod shot from
Terrorform. Which is fine, because model shots must get repeated all the
time, but I don’t usually notice it. It’s probably just that we don’t
see the escape pod much.

I think there’s a joke in the Space Corps Database about there being a sign in the ore sample pod that’s something like ‘This craft is designed for the transport of mining ore and should not be used under any circumstances as an escape pod (Seats: 1)’.

[Unrumble]

– The escape pod shot is just a repeat of the ore pod shot from
Terrorform. Which is fine, because model shots must get repeated all the
time, but I don’t usually notice it. It’s probably just that we don’t
see the escape pod much.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Rimmer’s, “Ok home boys, let’s posse!” is a tad cringeworthy.

I’d imagine that was the idea.

YEdit: it’s uglified my post again. I’ve tried removing the ‘div’ tags it applied to my second paragraph, but they just get readded again.

It’s almost as if Rob said to Doug “what if it was like Demons & Angels, only they don’t have another ship to just get back to?” There are strong similarities with the start of Emohawk.

I’ve actually been working on an experimental edit to that effect, where Red Dwarf blows up and they don’t get it back, repurposing the stasis scene from Out of Time, and from there it segues into Psirens (removing the references to Red Dwarf being stolen and tracking the vapour trail). I’m not very far into it atm and as other priorities have taken precedence, I don’t see it being done any time soon. I’ll let you know if I get it finished.

[International Debris]

Norwegian buying ski boots and Cat’s awooga waltz are so rushed and under the chaos that they’re totally ignored. Also both quite awkward lines. 

Holly gets gags!

”Check out that music!”

Keyboard preset plays obvious arpeggio. 

Rimmer’s dance is amazing. Danny’s obviously excellent, but Chris is much funnier.  

Low Lister’s laugh is HORRIBLE. 

Grotesque and hilarious as Low Rimmer is, there is a tiny, tiny element of ‘gay crossdresser = low’ which sits slightly uncomfortably with me. That said, after his initial threat to Lister, I think he gives the worst performance of the four. His reading is just a bit odd. 

The model isn’t very convincing when he eats it, but the idea of eating a live taranshula is actually really hideous. 

Apparently casual sex is also low. Bunch of prudes. 

Farewell, bunk room! 

I once named a track I wrote ‘My Brook is Babbled’. 

Lister being remote controlled into killing people is one of the darkest things the show has ever done.  

Holly’s back! And she gets a brief functional line about redirecting the ship. Great.

The end is very sitcommy, much more so than the rest of V.

Theme watch: back to the 1 / 2 version.

It’s a memorable episode with a lot of brilliant set pieces, but it’s definitely not one of the strongest of the bubble. Even the script feels strangely light on gags; there aren’t many classic zingers from Cat or smug remarks from Rimmer.

[Flap Jack]

Demons & Angels – I’m not going to sail against the wind in regarding this as the weakest episode of Series V, but it’s still pretty good overall. The high and low duplicates are a solid concept, there are still a whole bunch of classic gags and sequences, and the production continues to be amazing (despite this one being infamous for having issues). However, it is a disappointment that the High and Low crew are mostly just generically good and bad rather than being good and bad in ways specific to their characters – the exceptions being that Low Cat is more primal and Low Rimmer is especially rapey, I guess. It’s also just another run-around, there’s no character journey going on with the alternate crews. Not that there needed to be, but you can imagine a more thematically linked version of this story, where the device which malfunctioned wasn’t a triplicator but a machine which is designed to extract all bad qualities and turn your into your best self (so basically the personality tuck machine). Then the plot could be about Lister learning that both his good and bad qualities are essential to his identity or whatever.

– The triplicator being an adapted matter paddle is a fun bit of continuity, though dismantling an instant teleporter capable of getting you back to Earth in under ten hops so you can build a device which makes temporary copies of things (and also breaks and nearly kills everyone) seems like a pretty bad trade-off. Initially I thought Rimmer was being too dismissive of the triplicator’s outright magical infinite resource creating abilities, but when they revealed that all copies disappear after 1 hour I realised he was right. The whole endeavour is almost pointless. I mean, eating overly fatty or sugary treats and not having to worry about them negatively impacting your health is cool I guess.

– Reminder that those maggots in the low strawberry weren’t in the original, which means the triplicator created new life from nothing, and therefore the triplicator confers its owners the powers of a god.

– Seems like a design flaw that the triplicator basically runs on magic rules, where you can “reverse the process” but if you don’t explicitly say what you mean, it’ll just do something else which fits semantically. Like if you put your car in reverse and it continued going forward but started sucking exhaust fumes out of the air and converting it into petrol as it did so, not held back by the manufacturer never designing it to do that, nor the laws of physics.

– Nice detail with the strawberry graphic on the screen in the background. If it hadn’t been there, nobody would have thought it was missing.

– Some good stuff with Holly in this episode, with her getting the classic “This is not a daffodil” stuff, and also getting high and low counterparts who at least appear briefly. It’s still way lower than the amount of material that Hattie should have been getting, but I’ll take what I can get.

– I appreciate The Cat’s hair stripe, if only for Smegle purposes.

– There’s some incredible model sequences in this episode. Both Starbug bursting through the cargo bay doors and Red Dwarf exploding are all-timers.

– Pretty grim that Holly just straight up dies in this episode, and it goes unremarked on. She deserves better than that.

– I concur that the 7 minutes of oxygen is unbelievably low. They just aren’t acting like they’re that close to dying at all, and the time being so short makes it dubious they’d even be able to travel between the ships without running out. They could have easily made it more time but still dire. Maybe add in a line about the oxygen-generator being damaged in their exit or something, so it doesn’t call into question how Starbug is even viable as a transport craft.

– On Starbug Kryten recalls that he reversed the triplicator, but he didn’t. It was Lister who did that.

– When Rimmer is fading in and out due to low power, you can’t see his light bee.

– High Cat has an English accent. What are you trying to say with that performance choice, Danny?

– High Rimmer doesn’t have an ‘H’, but all of the high crew bear symbols on their foreheads. A sign that in a fully enlightened society, holograms wouldn’t be marked as outsiders?

– Even taking into account that they’re all the same as each other, the high crew’s whole vibe is very shallow. Being a great person means being so extremely nice that your brain can’t even comprehend someone non-nice.

– High Cat takes a bullet to the chest and is apparently totally fine. Impressive.

– So, how do the other Red Dwarf ships sustain multiple Rimmers, then? The Low ship in particular has 3 of them at once! And that’s the ship where everything is broken.

– I’m not a fan of the weird moralising the low crew represent. Dressing in drag, enjoying casual sex and liking horror movies are driven by your “lowest” self? Come on.

– I don’t think I properly thought about how horrific it is that Lister is made to kill high Lister and Rimmer before. I know they were doomed anyway, but that’s not going to reduce the extreme trauma Lister goes through. It’s so dark.

– This is the second episode in a row where Kryten gets hit by an axe. Guy can’t catch a break.

– Lister attacking the others while trying to warn them is a classic sequence. Kryten repeatedly warning Lister that he’s about to surprise him makes it.

– Things get overly cartoony when the spinal implant keeps getting accidentally inserted into people just by them dropping it or sitting on it, and it still working to control them. Like, it’s a spinal implant, guys.

– Cat is especially cruel in jumping at the opportunity to take control of Lister. I know this whole thing was technically his fault for putting the triplicator in reverse, but it was an accident, and he’s already been beaten, strangled, spat on, scalded, force-fed a tarantula, kneed in the crotch, chloroformed, and compelled to stab a duplicate of himself to death. I think he’s suffered enough, Cat – not being very “boys from the Dwarf”, are you? And they say Cat became too personable in Series 3 and onwards.

– Funny to listen to the cast talking in the commentary about how they found this to be a weaker episode, but for the fans it was a highly ranked favourite. What was up with these bizarro 90s fans who thought Demons & Angels was the best but thought White Hole was weak???

[Dave]

I’m not a fan of the weird moralising the low crew represent. Dressing in drag, enjoying casual sex and liking horror movies are driven by your “lowest” self? Come on.

I think it’s more about the Lows representing base urges and desires, and the Highs supposedly representing more enlightened and intellectual personality aspects. I don’t see it as particularly judgemental.

[Dave]

Funny to listen to the cast talking in the commentary about how they found this to be a weaker episode, but for the fans it was a highly ranked favourite. What was up with these bizarro 90s fans who thought Demons & Angels was the best but thought White Hole was weak???

I think Demons & Angels has an immediately appealling concept (and an unusually dark tone) that makes it initially attractive, but it doesn’t have the kind of depth that rewards multiple repeat viewings.

So I can understand it being popular on first broadcast but then maybe not holding up to other V episodes longer-term.

[Flap Jack]

I think it’s more about the Lows representing base urges and desires,
and the Highs supposedly representing more enlightened and intellectual
personality aspects. I don’t see it as particularly judgemental.

Hmm, OK, I can see that might have been what Rob and Doug were going for, but it’s too confused in the way it associates these things with good and bad. It’s treated as if sadism is just accepted to be a base impulse for all humans, and not something someone high-minded would engage in. So it still comes across as judgement.

Besides, of the things I mentioned, only the sex is about base instincts. Which clothes your wear or which movies you watch aren’t, so it’s just plain weird to hear “you like horror movies” listed alongside “you secretly enjoy torture”.

[Dave]

Hmm, OK, I can see that might have been what Rob and Doug were going for, but it’s too confused in the way it associates these things with good and bad. It’s treated as if sadism is just accepted to be a base impulse for all humans, and not something someone high-minded would engage in. So it still comes across as judgement.

Yeah, I agree it’s a bit confused in the way it’s presented. I think it’s so that they can do gags about other stuff that’s “bad” like cinema hot dogs etc.

[Stilianides]

With regard to Rob and Doug’s “moralizing”, I don’t think they remotely suggest anything as simple as, “dressing in drag is low.” It’s not as if the joke is just Chris Barrie dressed as a woman. It is clear from Chris’s first appearance in that outfit what type of character he is playing, and then it is explicitly stated with the line, “I’m going to thrash you to within an inch of your life. And then…I’m going to have you.”

And they also specifically state the kind of gore movies that they are referring to. For example, Die Screaming With Sharp Things in Your Head. It’s not as if they were criticizing an entire genre of films.

[Warbodog]

It’s not like the ‘High’ selves are presented in an aspirational and flattering way anyway.

the plot could be about Lister learning that both his good and bad qualities are essential to his identity or whatever.

Then I’d claim it was ripping off an old Star Trek episode again.

dismantling an instant teleporter capable of getting you back to Earth in under ten hops so you can build a device which makes temporary copies of things (and also breaks and nearly kills everyone) seems like a pretty bad trade-off.

With this being the next recorded after Meltdown, maybe they realised they had to get rid of that really convenient device as soon as possible.

It’s definitely an episode you have to be in the mood for. It was watching Low Kryten’s deranged jabbering when I realised I was totally down for it.

[Unrumble]

Apologies if already mentioned, don’t recall seeing it… how does Cat kneeing Lister in the balls stop him in his tracks? 

His body is under remote control, it’s already been demonstrated that he can be made to inflict physical pain on himself without being able to resist.

[Flap Jack]

With regard to Rob and Doug’s “moralizing”, I don’t think they remotely
suggest anything as simple as, “dressing in drag is low.” It’s not as if
the joke is just Chris Barrie dressed as a woman. It is clear from
Chris’s first appearance in that outfit what type of character he is
playing, and then it is explicitly stated with the line, “I’m going to
thrash you to within an inch of your life. And then…I’m going to have
you.”

Well, the show isn’t directly saying “drag is bad”, but it is utilising stereotypes about gender non-conforming folk, i.e. man in stockings –> it must be a sex thing –> if he’s bad and he’s into kink then he’s probably a rapist –> oh he is. Low Rimmer’s outfit is an easy visual shorthand, it’s just that by taking that easy shorthand you unavoidably reinforce some bad stuff.

I’m not saying these decisions were made with ill intent or that they ruin the episode, but it is a detail that doesn’t really hold up, in my opinion.

And they also specifically state the kind of gore movies that they are referring to. For example, Die Screaming With Sharp Things in Your Head. It’s not as if they were criticizing an entire genre of films.

Sure, but the other example is Revenge of the Mutant Splat Gore Monster, which isn’t even that extreme, it just sounds like a standard schlock monster movie. And Low Lister does just say “horror movies”.

Besides, I think even the more “torture porn” sections of horror cinema are too abstracted by their fictional nature for the watching of them to be considered a base urge and not an artistic engagement. If the low crew had been watching snuff films (or rather they had implanted memories of watching snuff films), then I’d get it.

[International Debris]

In terms of the low crew and moralising, I think the issue is this

 

is the only real explanation of what the triplicator does. So while it’s possible to read more into it, on a literal level, Rimmer in drag and Lister “lusting after meaningless sex” are portrayed as examples of “the very worst” aspects of the characters. In terms of Rimmer, it’s just there to exaggerate his questionable sexual attitudes, given that he wants to rape Lister, so I think it’s a very slightly unfortunate side-effect of an era where crossdressing was still considered a bit of a weirdo thing. It works as a comedy stereotype, it’s just possibly a slightly unfortunate one. In Lister’s case, though, the low characters very literally say that this psychotic killer version of Lister is “the part of you that lusts after meaningless sex”. Again, I don’t think it’s actually saying that meaningless sex is something only enjoyed by psychopaths, but it does suggest a certain amount of prudishness on the part of Rob and Doug, and perhaps society at the time. 

In other words I’m not accusing Grant Naylor of any wrongdoing, but I also don’t think a couple of relatively liberal thinking comedy writers in 2022 would write either of those things. 

[International Debris]

Sure, but the other example is Revenge of the Mutant Splat Gore Monster, which isn’t even that extreme, it just sounds like a standard schlock monster movie. And Low Lister does just say “horror movies”.

Yeah, the sleeping quarters section has always seemed a bit awkward and off to me, it feels much more like the Cyberia section of Last Human than Demons & Angels: things that are designed to depress the people who live there. The low crew would definitely suit snuff films or, if you wanted some Dave-era-style satire, maybe a biographical film of Donald Trump.

That said, Revenge of the Mutant Splat Gore Monster really doesn’t sound that far off something our Lister would watch, given his love of Revenge of the Surfboarding Killer Bikini Vampire Girls.

[Dave]

That said, Revenge of the Mutant Splat Gore Monster really doesn’t sound that far off something our Lister would watch, given his love of Revenge of the Surfboarding Killer Bikini Vampire Girls.

I think that’s the point, though. The Lows are not meant to be so debauched and evil that our crew would/could never do what they do; they’re meant to be the very worst aspects of them, extrapolated into a full personality without any of the good stuff that usually balances them out.

[Warbodog]

It would’ve been nice to have seen Back to Reality without knowing its reputation as THE fan favourite, but that preceded it even before I had the internet (probably a footnote in the Programme Guide). That’s always been a nagging undercurrent, like the episode’s constantly on trial to prove how fucking special it is. But on the flipside, that does give it a nice exalted sense of quality, almost like a mini movie to look forward to.

Fortunately, it’s always impressed me enough that I never had to invent or exaggerate any contrarian beefs. It’s got a fantastic atmosphere between the underwater scenes and the budget dystopia, more of that tangible series V peril, and at least two classic comedy scenes with the identity reveals and the ingenious no-budget car chase. The latter scene’s pivotal to securing its top 10 position.

– Surely mass extinction is an alternative to the huge damn fish? How was that still surviving if it’s already eaten everything? I guess they arrived in the nick of time as usual.

– The transition into the fantasy is so perfectly abrupt and shocking, you only notice the stupidity of the ink somehow penetrating the airtight hull on rewatches. They got away with it.

– This and Demons & Angels both have setups that give astute viewers the information they need to work out what’s going on. This one’s seems more obvious, but the reveal is delayed much longer. It seems unlikely that viewers would think this was a legit twist ending for the series, but supposedly the continuity announcer went out of their way to mislead. 

– Saying that, I somehow never really twigged that them doing so poorly in the game and failing to achieve their characters’ objectives or even to understand themselves is Stage I of the despair attack. I guess I’d considered it some conventionally self-deprecating light relief before the undermining really began with the new identities.

– More satisfying Rimmer-Kryten antagonism as he takes the opportunity to stop being his subordinate, then wilts back to type.

– Jake Bullet and “voters” still feel like Smegazine things that are happening in an episode, thanks to the way around I experienced things.

– Launching from the serious Cop scene into the car chase gave me comedy whiplash.

– A few allusions to the novels, with the Game being reminiscent of novel BTL and Lister’s Kochanski destiny. I wonder if Lister jump-starting the second big bang was an unused idea that was going to resolve the dangling BTL thread of Lister being the creator of the (a?) universe.

[Stilianides]

I agree with the earlier comment that TV writers nowadays would include different things and exhibit different attitudes, but that is only to be expected after a gap of 30 years. I personally try to judge any TV show, movie, book etc. on the period when it was made which seems the fairest way. Especially as attitudes change all the time and, let’s face it, plenty that happens in 2022 is not exactly beyond reproach. 

Interesting to read everyone’s perspectives, though, of course.

[Stilianides]

Back to Reality

This is one of those episodes that I can remember watching upon the original broadcast back in 1992. I was 11 at the time and too young to really think deeply about how TV worked or whether there would be another series of the show. That meant I had that innocent experience of believing for a moment that it might be true that they were playing a video game the whole time. To me, it seemed like a brilliant reveal and I was ever so slightly disappointed when it transpired that it had all been a hallucination.

I soon recognized the greatness of the episode and I agree with all of the polls that rank it very close to the top of the pile.

There are some brilliant performances from the main cast, a couple of great guest stars, and more inspired alternate versions of the main characters.

This ep also has one of the best deleted scenes and everything about it screams quality.

I also don’t have an issue with the fact that they don’t try to end on a laugh.

[International Debris]

I personally try to judge any TV show, movie, book etc. on the period when it was made which seems the fairest way. Especially as attitudes change all the time and, let’s face it, plenty that happens in 2022 is not exactly beyond reproach. 

To be fair, I wasn’t doing anything else. It’s merely an observation about how things feel a little uncomfortable in hindsight. If you were talking about something much older that had racist

[International Debris]

For the record, I’ve tried removing the blockquote tags from that post twice now and it just re-adds them when I press submit. What the fuck

[Jonathan Capps]

Ok, fixed it. After making the change in code view you need to get back to visual view for some fucking stupid fucking reason. You can finish the post now and it should behave!

And we’ve had some grief for analysing Dwarf from the point of view of modern sensibilities and politics before and my question to anyone who says we shouldn’t do that would be… then what the hell are we supposed to be doing?

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

and my question to anyone who says we shouldn’t do that would be… then what the hell are we supposed to be doing?

[Unrumble]

and my question to anyone who says we shouldn’t do that would be… then what the hell are we supposed to be doing?

[Rudolph]

Am I right in saying that this is the series to date with the least bunk room scenes? It appears a few times in Holoship – their mindpatch conversation, the hologram interviews and Rimmer announcing he’s won the contest – but after that it only pops up as Bay 47 in Quarantine and the High and Low quarters in Demons & Angels.

[International Debris]

Not a joke heavy opening scene, is it? 

Don’t fish swim south for the winter is very good, although it feels like a VII/VIII gag. 

Haddock suicide is brilliant. 

Starbug’s underwater capabilities, another widely used function. 

The first episode without Red Dwarf itself. 

It’s hard to watch this episode without the baggage attached. It’s also hard not to understand why Duane Dibbley went down as a classic from the start. His face when he realises his name is astonishing, and the cut to him saying his name later is my favourite moment in the episode. 

How is Rimmer being a loser who’s brothers with a successful person any different to reality? That never really sat right with me. 

Craig’s feet are FILTHY. 

Holoship feels so different to the rest of V as it’s the only one where the crew aren’t put through the ringer. This is another utterly, utterly grim idea. 

The car chase is such a brilliant scene: hilarious, explains what’s going on and gets around the need for an expensive chase scene. Superb writing. 

Holly plays a very important part in the plot here, which is really nice for her last episode. Hattie’s last job is to save everyone’s lives. 

Looking for a moment where Cat could have picked up another squid in time for Back to Earth. Failing. 

Yeah, it’s good, isn’t it? I think I’ve always underrated it a touch because of how loved it is, also possibly the long gag-free stretches are quite heavy going, but it really does get to the core of the four of them better than any other episode. Still not my favourite, but probably a top 10 position for me this time. 

V, then. It’s still my favourite series, but this is the first time I’ve properly watched the show with a critical eye and it surprised me at how different it is to even IV. It’s definitely much more serious in tone, and yet the characters sometimes feel very slightly broader at times. Red Dwarf (especially the bunk room, as Rudolph says) and Holly are in it even less than I remembered. In some ways, VII feels like a more natural continuation of the changes than VI’s much lighter tone. There are also a few moments when you can see they’re really stretching the budget and facilities the show has available, it’s slightly rough around the edges in comparison to the series either side of it, especially in the Juliet May episodes. 

Ok, fixed it. After making the change in code view you need to get back to visual view for some fucking stupid fucking reason. You can finish the post now and it should behave!

[Author]

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