Sonic Mania

[Ben Kirkham]

Blah blah blah DRM blah blah Denuvo blah blah. There’s definitely a point to be made there – you should be able to play offline.

But I’ve not heard anyone talk about the game itself yet. I’ve been playing for a couple of days, and I’m really enjoying it. A smart and clever synthesis of the first four games, with a bit of Sonic CD, Sonic 3D and Robotnik’s Mean Bean Machine thrown in for good measure. A bit like being 8 years old again!

Opinions?

Topic

[Moonlight]

I remember being excited for Sonic Adventure when the Dreamcast first came out and persisting with it, even though so much of it was just clearly wrong for a Sonic game. Still impressive in a lot of ways though. Just not that much, y’know, fun.

Sonic Adventure is really really fun if you just play the Sonic stages and also you’re a godtier player who knows how to exploit the spindash to use makeshift ramps out of the terrain to skip all boring parts of levels.

Also Gamma’s pretty fun but his stages are absurdly short except for Hot Shelter.

I thought most of Colours was 2d or at least on a Crash Bandicoot style fixed track. I still haven’t played it though. But I remember it being hailed as a return to form at the time.

Colors fucking sucks. I played almost the entire game on stream the other day and it was pretty miserable. #NotMySonic

[Phil]

It’s probably due to the announcement of the Origins collection or something, but I suddenly realized I’d never played the Sonic Mania DLC so I booted it up again, figured I’d play through a few levels to get back into the swing of things before playing with the new characters…and ended up just playing through the base Sonic Mania game again.

It really does get better every time I play it. I still haven’t come around on a few things (Titanic Monarch drags, it’s too easy to get into the Blue Sphere stages) but the game is so…damned…good.

I’m still holding out hope for a direct sequel. There are so many other classic zones I’d love to see them tackle, and of course more new ones would be great as well.

I’ll play through the new modes, certainly, but I’m impressed by just how easily I got sucked into the main game all over again. Just wonderful.

[Jenuall]

Sonic Mania 2 is probably the biggest open goal in gaming and yet SEGA still can’t seem to score

[Dave]

Yeah, I’m baffled it’s taken them this long to put it together. It’ll be a shame if it never shows up.

The Sonic 30th anniversary year is shaping up to be a bit like the Red Dwarf 30th anniversary year. A bit of stuff announced and teased for later, and a few new little bits and pieces (I grabbed the new Sonic-based Minecraft content “for the kids” today), but pretty light on anything substantial.

[Phil]

FANS: May we have Sonic Mania 2?
SEGA: What’s that? You want more Sonic?

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/06/rumour_sonic_the_hedgehog_is_reportedly_set_to_become_a_vtuber

[Ridley]

“Drop Sonic Mania, SEGA.”
“Already have done.”

[Dave]

“Drop Sonic Mania, SEGA.”

“Already have done.”

“Encore mode.”

[Jenuall]

Well played :D

[Dave]

Currently free on the Epic Games store, penny-pinching platformer proponents.

[Moonlight]

Everything I know about the corporate politics of SEGA, including from making friends with somebody who worked there as a translator and interpreter in the Dreamcast era, tells me that SEGA’s higher-ups are probably humiliated that Sonic Mania (headed by devs hired from the fan game community) was such a critical darling and the best selling Sonic title since Heroes in 2004, all while their in-house effort Sonic Forces was very poorly received on account of sucking incredibly hard.

We’re never getting a follow-up to Mania (whether fully original or based mainly on nostalgic zones) because it was so good it embarrassed the company. That’s my theory and I don’t see any evidence to the contrary.

[Warbodog]

The follow-up is Sonic Depression (about there not being a follow-up).

[Jenuall]

Largely I’m just glad that Mania exists at all, I never would have dreamed of SEGA actually going for something like it so for us to finally get a great classic Sonic title after ~25 years of thinking “nah, those days are gone” was great.

[Kris ‘Drivaaar’ Carter]

I’m still fucking salty that I can’t complete Titanic Bollock zone.

[Dave]

Where are you stuck? The four routes at the end?

[Kris ‘Drivaaar’ Carter]

Yeah, precisely – I take too long on those, end up running out of time on the boss. It would help if I played the game more often than once every few months though.

[Dave]

That’s weird. The timer should reset at the end of Act 2 before the boss.

[Kris ‘Drivaaar’ Carter]

Huh… That is weird. I’ll keep an eye on that next time

[Warbodog]

Are you seriously telling me he was playing the prat version of Sonic Mania for all that time? For four years?

[Kris ‘Drivaaar’ Carter]

No, I had it sussed right from the beginning!

[Moonlight]

You realize you can turn off the time over, right?

[Jonathan Capps]

Sure you can, if you’re weak.

[Jenuall]

Just remember you can clap your hands together at any time to exit the AR simulation.

I do remember Titanic Monarch going on a bit to be fair, I’m not surprised to hear about people timing out on that zone

[Kris ‘Drivaaar’ Carter]

You realize you can turn off the time over, right?

… Huh.

[Rick]

There’s a clue hidden in the microdot over the I in Mania on the title screen… A blatant clue.

[Dave]

I just picked up the Sonic Colours Ultimate remaster and I’m quite enjoying it with the kids. This is one of the middle-era Sonic games that I never played before, as the original release coincided with my few years away from console gaming, so it’s nice to finally give it a go.

It’s pretty simple but so far it feels like one of the best 3D Sonic games – it’s nice and straightforward, not too punishing, tight little short levels with decent 2D sections, and the wisps work well.

Plus the two-player minigame is amusing and a nice addition.

Also, despite having heard of some bugs in some versions of the remaster, this seems pretty smooth (playing the PS4 version on PS5). Although it’s weird that the cutscenes haven’t had the same polish and HD upgrade as the rest of the game – presumably redoing them was too much work? It makes for quite a jarring transition.

[Ridley]

I played Sonic 2006 off the back of this thread a lil’ while ago and haven’t made it past Wave Ocean. Sonic’s still on the back of that Orca a lil’ whale ago so Mania never happened. Sorry, guys.

[Dave]

Never played Sonic ’06 as it sounded so dire.

[Jenuall]

We don’t talk about Sonic ’06

[Moonlight]

Everyone’s trying to pretend now (thanks to a certain fan remaster) that ’06 was secretly always a masterpiece that only failed because it was rushed out the door unpolished, and it drives me crazy because you can fix any amount of glitches in that game and it’s still just a shitty version of the good parts of Sonic Adventure.

I know because the fan remaster is exactly that. Every time I complain about something in it, somebody responds “You should have seen how it worked in the original” which is damning with faint praise to say the least.

Adventure meanwhile has the opposite reputation curve – everyone loved it and especially its sequel until they randomly decided one day that they actually always sucked for mostly unfair reasons despite, speaking as someone who fucking loves both, it being so easy to come up with actual good substantive criticism of them that isn’t nitpicking bullshit.

[Warbodog]

Playing a few minutes of Sonic Adventure didn’t rekindle the enthusiasm that Sonic 3D killed, but my brothers were into it.

[Dave]

Yeah, I was slightly too old to love Sonic Adventure and see past its flaws, but my younger brother loved it and SA2.

[Jenuall]

The Adventure games definitely have their flaws, the first one in particular, and they can’t hold a candle to the 2D classics, but there’s still fun to be had with them.

Sonic ’06 is just pure garbage.

[Dave]

Yeah, I think SA2 learned nicely from the first one, the variety of characters/stages works better there and it’s all a bit more exciting and slick.

But they’re both respectable and decent early forays into 3D for Sonic, and I think in retrospect the first one is maybe one of the most important Sonic games ever (particularly in terms of the things it did that modern Sonic games are still emulating today.)

[Moonlight]

Good thing SEGA threw out everything that worked about Adventure when 06 flopped. Otherwise we could have, I dunno, refined that formula to perfection over the years instead of constantly coming up with new ways to be underwhelming and then throwing them out.

Playing a few minutes of Sonic Adventure didn’t rekindle the enthusiasm that Sonic 3D killed, but my brothers were into it.

I can’t say that this is the game’s doing, but SA1 Sonic is approximately 500 times more fun if you employ basic speedrun strats and it also lets you skip basically every single section of a level I consider slow and/or annoying.

SA2 Sonic / Shadow play excellently when you’re good at it even without anywhere close to the same degree of cheating, but there’s a lot of things that later inferior titles worked out about improving gimmicks SA2 invented which leaves you with the best version of the gimmick being the least refined because games like Heroes ruined everything else that was good?

What a sentence.

Just remove rail balancing with mods and you’ll do fine. And remap light dash to Y with another mod. I’d say mapping every action (besides jump-related stuff) to B and making it context-sensitive was the dumbest game design choice in Sonic,

 

but

 

that barrel exists in Sonic 3. So I can’t say that. That B-button may have killed me countless times trying to light dash over a bottomless pit by triggering the bounce bracelet because I was two pixels too far from the rings, but I never got stuck because of it.

I played Sonic 2006 off the back of this thread a lil’ while ago and haven’t made it past Wave Ocean. Sonic’s still on the back of that Orca a lil’ whale ago so Mania never happened. Sorry, guys.

Good thing Sonic Mania takes place immediately after 3&K, then. Also Sonic doesn’t have a timeline or a cohesive universe and it gave up trying like 15 years ago.

Because 06.

So that’s another thing they threw out with 06 – the actually interesting world that had built up since Adventure 1 with its own backstories and mythos and shit. Thanks, Sonic Team, you incompetent fucks.

[Ridley]

Well, I’ve been playing Tails Special Stage Mania thanks to Monkey Ball.

[Moonlight]

If you could see me play Adventure 1 and make absolute mincemeat of the levels you’d probably go “Shit, that looks extremely fun. But hell, I’m not spending 20 years getting good enough to try.”

[Warbodog]

I didn’t know that “The Barrel” in Carnival Night Zone was some infamous thing until this thread, it never stood out to me. But I had been through dozens of fiddly platformers on the Amiga before we got on to the Sonics.

Things I didn’t like were Sonic 1’s uniquely unforgiving instant death spikes and when you’d go faster than the games could handle in certain parts and the screen would pan frantically trying to work out where you were until it gave up and killed you.

[Dave]

I didn’t know that “The Barrel” in Carnival Night Zone was some infamous thing until this thread

It’s because it suddenly introduces a brand new mechanic to the game without even suggesting it let alone explaining it. It’s a bit baffling really. I played it on release and I remember multiple playthrough attempts before stumbling across the solution.

[Dave]

Sonic 2 (D’Movie) is good fun. If you liked the first one you’ll like this, and it incorporates the additional characters and ideas from the games nicely. I saw it in a cinema with lots of young kids in the audience and they all seemed to love it. Plus, another fan-pleasing post-credit scene.

[Warbodog]

I downloaded a phone version of the original Sonic to briefly show to my two-year-old and let her do the jumping. Later in the day, she randomly exclaimed “Segaaaaaa.” Hooked!

[Jenuall]

Hopefully going to watch Sonic 2 tomorrow, really looking forward to it.

My brain refuses to accept that it has been 30 (!) years since Sonic 2 D’Game came out though!

[Dave]

Did anyone pick up Sonic Frontiers? Thoughts?

I got it at Christmas and gave it a try then, but found it a bit underwhelming. But starting again this week I’ve enjoyed it a little better, in part I think because I’ve reset my expectations.

I initially went in expecting a speedy platformer and didn’t get that – but this time around I’m quite enjoying the ambient, non-linear, exploration-focused vibe. It’s something a bit different for a Sonic title. And it’s quite a pretty game with nice music that makes it oddly relaxing to play.

It’s far from perfect – lots of the game mechanics are a bit wonky and unintuitive, and there’s far too much fussiness in terms of item collection and skill upgrades for a Sonic game – and it’s a shame that the traditional style of Sonic level is relegated to effectively an occasional side-game. But at least it’s trying something new.

[Warbodog]

We’re playing through childhood favourite Sonic 3 (& Knuckles) a zone a day on emulator + USB controller. I never realised *quite* how much it’s just ‘hold right + jump randomly’ (sometimes going left a bit for variety) with extensive semi-automated sections where it’s best to just not do anything, at least in the early stages.

Not that I used to mind going through those hypnotic motions endlessly, but it’s taken some of the shine off. It’s no Mario World!

[Dave]

I always liked that about Sonic games though. You get some super tricksy platform bits, and then you get rewarded for those with some slick speedy sections too. And some great bosses!

I’ve always preferred that mix to Mario, which I like but find a bit boring and fiddly in comparison. 

(Now which is better, SNES or Megadrive?)

[Warbodog]

SNES does the sci-fi (Starwing), Mega Drive does the comedy (ToeJam & Earl).

[Jenuall]

Way too old to be getting into console wars arguments these days, kind of embarrassing how this sort of thing used to dominate the playground and result in some people genuinely getting quite angry at each other.

That said, Mega Drive is clearly better and anyone who likes the SNES is a massive bumface!

[Dave]

Clearly the Smegadrive is an attempt to heal that divide.

[Jonathan Capps]

I’ve been a snooty little boy about the 3D Sonic games for years and years, but because Frontiers looked so good to me I played through a few (Forces was a mistake, I was a fool) and so got Frontiers day one. I absolutely loved it. I can see why people don’t as it’s incredibly rough around the edges, but I loved the pacing of gently exploring and picking up tokens and then being more ffocused on the traditional levels before having some amazing interactable cutscene with a giant boss and some banging music. I hope Sonic continues down this road.

I will now sit my coffee and wait patiently for Moonlight’s 3000 word essay on Sonic Adventure 3

[Dave]

I can see why people don’t as it’s incredibly rough around the edges, but I loved the pacing of gently exploring and picking up tokens and then being more ffocused on the traditional levels before having some amazing interactable cutscene with a giant boss and some banging music. I hope Sonic continues down this road.

Yeah, this sums it up well. I feel like any sequel will hopefully be able to polish things up a bit more and improve on the solid basis of this game, which already works better than the vast majority of the other 3D Sonic offerings.

[Jenuall]

I’ve had Frontiers since Christmas but haven’t actually had a chance to play it yet. Think I need to turn in my Super Sonic Fan Club™ membership card! 

I’ve heard a mix of responses to it, so already set my expectations low but nice to hear some praise as well!

[Author]

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