The Classic Doctor Who Thread (1963 to 1989/1996)

[By Jove its holmes]

Fact of the Day: Tom Baker was the first DW series lead who wasn’t a veteran of the Second World War. He had the mercy of a late birth.

Topic

[Rudolph]

I actually think City of Death is the worst place to start. It’s often considered the best story ever (not by me, I don’t like it at all, but that’s for another time), and so it can set unrealistic expectations for what the rest of the series will be like.

[Rushy]

(not by me, I don’t like it at all, but that’s for another time)

Finally, a voice of sanity

[Warbodog]

I approached City of Death as another Douglas Adams thing after I read his books, it could have been Doctor Who or anything. It’s always stuck out as different from the rest as a result. Oh yeah, there’s also that famous cameo whose presence also feels bizarre (tombow might not have got there yet).

[Ben Saunders]

The War Machines, Destiny of the Daleks and Four to Doomsday

Oh dear. War Machines is alright.

[Ben Saunders]

I actually think City of Death is the worst place to start. It’s often considered the best story ever (not by me, I don’t like it at all, but that’s for another time), and so it can set unrealistic expectations for what the rest of the series will be like.

It also begins with a slightly bizarre scene of a green spaghetti monster spouting incomprehensible dialogue back and forth on an unconvincing planet and then exploding. And it has the Thunderbirds guy doing a bad comic German accent. But apart from that it’s stellar.

[tombow]

Yeah I’ve realised I might be getting my hopes up for Adams level wit for the rest of era. I just want to jump in and get some different stories watched really. I can see there’s a lot of variety in style. I also have seen a clip of a certain icon appearing as an art critic.

[Technopeasant]

I actually think City of Death is the worst place to start. It’s often considered the best story ever (not by me, I don’t like it at all, but that’s for another time), and so it can set unrealistic expectations for what the rest of the series will be like.

Certainly shouldn’t for the frankly coincidental reason it had the highest ratings… against a static screen.

[Professor Flibble]

I think the best stories to start with are the ones that are fairly well liked, with one or two fan favourites peppered in.

The Curse of Peladon is my favourite story of all time and it’s also one I show people getting into the show.

[Jonathan Capps]

Remembrance and City of Death were my first two. I think it definitely makes sense to start strong.

[Rushy]

I bought my first two on DVD as a child with no understanding of what’s good and what’s not. I picked the Dalek Invasion of Earth and Attack of the Cybermen. 

[Professor Flibble]

Remembrance and City of Death were my first two. I think it definitely makes sense to start strong.

It makes sense but I suppose I’m a bit unusual in that a lot of the fan favourites are maybe in the middle of my era rankings, and I think you should lean towards more monster-heavy ones to give an idea of the show’s ambition in spite of its budget

[Technopeasant]

I mostly started on what my parents had recorded off KCTS (as with Red Dwarf) and whatever the public library network had on VHS and later DVD, which gave me a good taste of different Doctors. An Unearthly Child and The Daleks for Hartnell, The Invasion and The War Games for Troughton, The Sea Devils for Pertwee, Genesis of the Daleks, Robots of Death, and The Invasion of Time for Tom, Enlightenment for Davison, Vengeance on Varos and The Two Doctors for Colin, and Remembrance of the Daleks, Silver Nemesis, and Curse of Fenric for McCoy. That diet might be what makes me appreciate the ’80s more than some, and surprisingly little Barry Letts or Philip Hinchcliffe.

[Ben Saunders]

I bought my first two on DVD as a child with no understanding of what’s good and what’s not. I picked the Dalek Invasion of Earth and Attack of the Cybermen. 

I used to quite like Attack of the Cybermen as a teenager. Now I recognise its weaknesses but the violence appealed to me at the time.

[Rushy]

Lytton’s character always struck me as very “Eric Saward wants to write Blake’s 7 but can’t”

[Doomitron]

Love Attack. It’s pure schlock and it’s great.

[Doomitron]

I just got done editing together a higher quality VHS copy of Ultimate Adventure and the superior audio from Josh Snares’s YouTube version. Going to upload this to the Internet Archive at some point.

[Rushy]

Is it any good as a story?

[Ben Saunders]

Matthew Waterhouse is such an unconvincing actor that it’s very easy to read his siding with Monarch in Four to Doomsday as him simply pretending to in order to stroke his ego and lull him into a false sense of security, which make the story ten times more interesting. Of course then he’s an asshole to Nyssa and Tegan about it so it doesn’t really work.

Davison is constantly out of breath for some reason.

The clip of Tegan having a breakdown while trying to fly the TARDIS has been used as a reaction on Twitter quite a lot, to the point where people who have never seen Doctor Who have used it in completely unrelated contexts, which is fun.

[Ben Kirkham]

I think if you want to introduce new fans to the Classic series, show them “Carnival of Monsters.”

[Ben Saunders]

I love Carnival of Monsters, the bald greys are very funny.

[Doomitron]

Is it any good as a story?

Ultimate Adventure? No, it’s for little kids, but it’s technically the only time the Daleks and Cybermen met in the Classic era (the play ran concurrently with S26). If you don’t like Colin Baker I don’t know how much you’ll enjoy this although he’s toned down a lot from his TV persona. I can put the Archive link here if it’s allowed (it’s not copyrighted but don’t know the rules).

[tombow]

I also was assuming Romana is just a regular companion, and was surprised at her genius abilities. I know now she’s a time lady. I thought she was just a savant person.

[Technopeasant]

Davison is constantly out of breath for some reason.

I assume you don’t mean the spacewalk scene.

[Ben Saunders]

The Visitation is excellent. Tightly plotted, witty, excellent set and costume designs, well-directed, good music, wonderful intertwining of film segments and VT-in-studio, and a great monster. I would have given Eric Saward the script editor role too. There are multiple foreground paintings used in this story, to make the barn and the spaceship appear larger than they actually are, and aside from being conspicuously static shots there’s no telling – the joins are seamless, even on the Blu-Ray restoration, which of course looks marvellous.

Nyssa is cute, and works so well with Davison’s Doctor, you can see why he said she was his favourite and wished they were travelling alone. Tegan I like but her constantly wanting to leave and complaining all the time is grating, and Adric is even worse under Davison than he was with Baker.

One strange thing is that the Doctor sort of figures out they’re Terileptils offscreen it seems, he name drops them out of nowhere. There’s no a-ha moment.

Hey look, the Terileptils have widescreen TV!

[Doomitron]

Did you skip Four to Doomsday and Kinda or did you just not want to write about it? Won’t blame you if you did the former.

[Ben Saunders]

Did you skip Four to Doomsday and Kinda or did you just not want to write about it? Won’t blame you if you did the former.

Four to Doomsday I actually found more engaging than Logopolis or Castrovalva, but there’s not much to talk about really. I like the ancient Greek guy, I like the frog people turning into Tegan’s remarkably good drawings, I like the cricket ball in space bit with the conspicuously static TARDIS. Monarch’s makeup is pretty good. I like the effect of the manopticons and wonder how it was done. Adric is at his worst so far though, he’s just mean and misogynistic for no reason. “Space fascism from a big fat frog man? Count me in!”

The ending is weird, “we’ve decided to stay and start anew on some other planet”. What, all four of you?

I’ve skipped Kinda for now because I haven’t got the non-CGI version downloaded and my internet has been spotty so I can’t watch it on iPlayer right now. I’ll go back to it right after I finish The Visitation.

[Flap Jack]

And you did at least talk about Four to Doomsday a little bit.

[Doomitron]

Ah yes he did, I must’ve forgot.

[Warbodog]

[Warbodog]

I associate The Visitation with The Awakening, but it turns out to be from way later. Probably because they’re the better historical Davisons.

Edit: It’s not even a historical. I don’t know why then. 

[Ian Symes]

I always get those two dudes mixed up. I can remember that one of them is Terileptils and the Great Fire of London, and the other is Denis Lill and a big face in a wall, but I find it impossible to remember which one of those is called The Visitation and which is called The Awakening. Is it just cos they’re both called “The Something”?

[tombow]

I have to admit.. I’m struggling a bit with the slow pace. I got halfway through “City” and switched to “Robots” for a break. I love the world and the robots, but I’m finding the royal people in charge of the craft a bit wearying – they sound like they’re all acting different plays and yelling in weirdly clashing tones to each other. I’ve still got Fang Rock and Dalek Invasion of Earth to watch, and I’ve ordered the first Leela story with her forest tribe as I think i have memories of seeing it as a kid.

[Flap Jack]

Is it just cos they’re both called “The Something”?

And the second word has the same number of syllables.

The main thing I think of when someone mentions The Awakening is that when it came to releasing it on DVD, they knew it wasn’t good enough to get a solo release, but the strongest connection they could think of between it and any other unreleased story for box set purposes was “set on Earth”.

That’s quite the contrast with The Visitation, which was deemed worthy of not just a solo release but a Special Edition re-release too.

I’ve still got Fang Rock and Dalek Invasion of Earth to watch, and I’ve ordered the first Leela story with her forest tribe as I think i have memories of seeing it as a kid.

The Face of Evil is really underrated in my opinion, and Horror of Fang Rock is just an all time banger. So hopefully you get on OK with those.

[Warbodog]

And the second word has the same number of syllables.

And they’re really non-descriptive titles, like when a Star Trek episode is called ‘Eye of the Beholder.’

Anyway, a contemporary 1984-set story is a historical now.

[Unrumble]

 I find it impossible to remember which one of those is called The Visitation and which is called The Awakening. Is it just cos they’re both called “The Something”?

[Unrumble]

The Face of Evil is really underrated in my opinion

One of those where I’d read the Target novelisation back to front multiple times, years before I ever saw it, and it never quite lived up to the image I had in my head. There were a few like this.

[Professor Flibble]

I associate The Visitation with The Awakening, but it turns out to be from way later. Probably because they’re the better historical Davisons.
Edit: It’s not even a historical. I don’t know why then. 

Well the Malus is made from tinclavic, so there is actually a link there.

[Ben Saunders]

You get the feeling from episode four of The Visitation that Five hates his companions, he talks down to all of them, even Nyssa, and refuses to answer any questions or offer any sort of support. I know things are pretty serious, he’s stressed and has a lot of important work to do, but damn, what a prick.

I love how utterly horrible the death of the Terileptil is, the gnarly effects and the screaming and moaning. They would later repeat the bubble popping effect on the Sontarans in The Two Doctors, which is fitting since everybody says this story is a remake of The Time Warrior. I think the similarities between that story and The Visitation are obvious, but more broad than people give credit for. This is very traditional Doctor Who, yes, but with enough originality and flair that it’s still really rather good.

Is this seriously the best map the TARDIS had to offer?

I don’t think this is quite right…

[Technopeasant]

And the second word has the same number of syllables.
And they’re really non-descriptive titles, like when a Star Trek episode is called ‘Eye of the Beholder.’

You mean over half of them?

[Ben Saunders]

Black Orchid is delightful. A fun little fluff piece where the Doctor plays cricket and the companions dance. Getting rid of six-parters was a great move on JNT’s part. I like how you can tell it was shot in England because it looks bloody freezing.

[Warbodog]

Did Doctor Who terrify you as a kid?

I didn’t see much as a Wilderness kid, but Ghost Light’s creepy house stayed with me. I saw Daleks occasionally, but just found them fun. The Martians from the 1950s War of the Worlds were maybe my equivalent, that was on TV a lot and they were properly scary and lethal.

– CITV witches T-Bag and Grotbags used to creep me out when I was very young

– A bit later (about 7), the villain Jemadah from Watt on Earth by Pip & Jane Baker always made me really tense

– Knightmare, obviously, clue’s in the name

[Professor Flibble]

There were three things in Doctor Who that scared me to the point I couldn’t watch certain stories for a long time.

– The sequence in Inferno Episode 1 where the Doctor and the TARDIS console go between universes

– The time scoop in The Five Doctors (I think the “Mr Whippy” version particularly)

– Sylvester McCoy’s silver face in the title sequence

[Ben Saunders]

I find the horror stuff quite affecting these days, like that guy shooting himself in Image of the Fendahl or the guy getting mulched in Seeds of Doom. There are a couple pretty gruesome deaths in Classic Who if I recall. But I don’t think Doctor Who really scared me as a child, I hadn’t unlocked empathy yet.

[Technopeasant]

But I don’t think Doctor Who really scared me as a child, I hadn’t unlocked empathy yet.

Most Doctor Who I first saw as a teenager. Blackadder of all things scared me a little as a kid. The Black Seal in particular.

[Doomitron]

Most Doctor Who I first saw as a teenager. Blackadder of all things scared me a little as a kid. The Black Seal in particular.

Surprisingly the same. The first series has this cruel and nasty vibe throughout it (I don’t hate it) and gave me serious whiplash compared to the carefree jokey nature of the latter three seasons I was more familiar with when I first watched it.

[Technopeasant]

I actually rather appreciate The Blackadder these days, weirdness and all.

The final cutaway at the end of Chains is also rather unsettling.

[Ben Saunders]

Kinda is a bizarre story. Not sure what to make of it. Flashes of Five hating his companions, and lashings of his companions hating each other. A sickeningly sweet wrap-up ending reminiscent of the Pertwee era. The least convincing giant snake ever televised. Matthew Waterhouse “acting”.

[Warbodog]

I watched The X-Files from the start when I was 9, but only clearly remember being scared by the ghosts in ‘Beyond the Sea,’ which are just standing there and not hurting anyone.

This ghost from 1995 ITV horror anthology Chiller shit me up at 10. I had to stay away from the windows that night when going to bed.

Scariest proper horror film as a teenager might have been Event Horizon’s eyeless dead wife jumpscares. Similarly, the Buffy episode After Life where they get possessed and their eyes have no pupils.

So I was mainly scared by ghosts and wrong eyes, especially when combined.

[Dave]

Did Doctor Who terrify you as a kid?

Only two memories of Doctor Who ever really scaring me:

The Dalek coming up the stairs at the end of Remembrance, and McCoy’s terrified face in its sights for the cliffhanger as it went into the closing theme.

The Kandyman (yes really).

[Doomitron]

If we’re talking strictly Classic Who nothing of it really frightened me, although I only saw Classic Who beginning in my late teens so I probably missed the boat on when it would’ve been able to. But including NuWho then absolutely the episode where Captain Darling got turned into an Ood.

[Author]

Replies