LET’S LOOK AT SOME PICTURES News Posted by Jonathan Capps on 23rd January 2020, 11:05 Oh, it’s all kicking off now. No sooner have the cameras stopped rolling on the new Special than still images harvested from said cameras have made their way online. They come courtesy of Pilot TV‘s latest issue and we present them here after the jump for your viewing and discussing pleasure. We’ll be back later with more thoughts. First of all, I should mention that I was not present at either of the recordings for the Special as I was too busy fighting for my survival in the hills of East Lancs. As such, I’m devoid of some of the context others will have for these pictures. With that in mind, SOME THOUGHTS… The crew are looking pretty much as you’d expect here. I do like the visual consistency over the last ten years and while Lister and Rimmer have recieved some tweaks over that time, they’re very much the versions of the characters we’re now very familiar with. Kryten always ends up being a bit of a mixed bag, and his mask does look a bit melty and weird here, but we should probably be used to the sacrifies obviously made for comfort by now. The glory years of Kryten’s look in the early 90s this isn’t, but he’s fine really. Finally, it wouldn’t be a new series of Red Dwarf without debates about whether Cat’s costume is shit or not shit, and so I’m going to plant my flag in the not shit camp. A garish and ill fitting puffer puffer jacket that doesn’t even slightly go with his more traditional suit underneath perfectly matches the Cat’s evolving state of not giving a fuck, in my opinion. Also, is that ostenacious watch placement a subtle reference to the recent Bond poster? Rodon? Where we’re going we will need Rodon. Because he his playing the leader of the feral cats, and appears to be an integral part of the plot. There’s just SO much to talk about from this one image. Firstly, it’s nice that the Dave Twitter account gave us some nice context to go with this image to prevent there being *too* much wild speculation. We now know we’re getting at least three new cats in the special, and the main lad has chopsticks inbetween his fingers. We’re left to wonder whether this is a sect from one of the fated arcs of old or something else entirely, but I do know the look of the costumes and characters here is exceptional. What a scary, cool looking bastard he is. As someone who’s head has been drifting a little away from Red Dwarf in the years since XII, these pictures have done a lot to kickstart my excitement for the Special. The production design / values never fail to impress me and I’m really excited to see the direction Doug is taking the show given all the focus will be on this one story. Considering the hints here, it’s certainly looks like it’s aiming to be a big ‘un.
Probably looks better when he’s moving, but don’t massively like cats outfit, reminds me of the lining of the snorkle jacket I had when I was a kid, so looks a bit too Dwayne. Hmm simulant overload? Or something else.
https://twitter.com/davechannel/status/1220284491727589376 CATS CATS CATS CATS CATS CATS On an unrelated note can we just take a moment to appreciate that guy’s dalek pants?
I’m not a fan of Cat’s outfit either. That gold body warmer looks a bit silly over the orange suit, and too small for him. I am however, quiet excited by the prospect of meeting some more Cats! We’ve been down that road before though, and this could be a 5min dream scene that is largely irrelevent to the overall story.
I’d be happy if the story of this special is the crew finally running into the Cat race that left Red Dwarf before Lister left stasis. It’s been a long time coming.
Oh my god it really is the episode I’ve been praying for all this time. Everyone looks great. Is this… it for us though? Everyone’s saying it’s not but it feels like this is our series finale.
Just a thought. First publicity shots released and nothing with Norman in. Obviously he isn’t here in this scene, but does suggest they’re not fussed about highlighting his involvement in promo yet.
Guest star looks great, hopefully a proper villain like the old simulants, menacing, played straight. Cat looks like he’s stolen someone’s Gran’s body warmer and Out of Time Kryten’s suit and turtle neck, not a fan, and everyone looks old, but they are so who gives a smeg.
Is it me or does that Rimmer costume have a hem where it didn’t previously? Bare minimum to keep the Rimmer needs a new costume crowd quiet haha
this looks smaller than that though, but I don’t think it actually is. Age related spread for the head.
Also, from what we’ve glimpsed elsewhere, I don’t think it’s a secret that Kryten’s body is concealed in that photo.
Does look a little smaller than usual, but could just be the angle and the lighting I’ve tried that line before.
Is it me or does that Rimmer costume have a hem where it didn’t previously? Yes, I noticed that too. Looks… fine, I suppose.
This looks totally great. The Cat ark at last! And the costumes, including Cat’s, are awesome. Can’t believe the grumbling above about Cat’s jacket, which looks totally great anyway, and Rimmer’s small H, which we all know can change style in-universe at the touch of some keys in the Holoprojection Suite (re: Holoship, Season 1 v III etc.). It’s a miracle – new RD, folks! NEW RD!
My first thought when I saw that second picture was he’s gotta be a cat! Then I was looking so closely to see what his teeth are like that I completely failed to spot the claws. These both look great and I like Cat’s outfit.
You get no Cat -centric episodes since Waiting for God then you get 2 ! Can of Worms and the special!
I’ve always longed for the Cats to return ever since Waiting For God & Identity Within. De smegging lighted
You get no Cat -centric episodes since Waiting for God then you get 2 ! Can of Worms and the special! Can of worms should give us super high hopes for this special.
Finally, it wouldn’t be a new series of Red Dwarf without debates about whether Cat’s costume is shit or not shit, and so I’m going to plant my flag in the not shit camp. I’ll go with Not Shit, too. I think he’s looking sharp. As for the second pic… After everything that’s been said on that there other thread about spoilers and going in blind, do we think it may be a wee bit Spoilery, or at least give a bit more of a clue to the storyline than those peeps would like? I don’t know, so don’t look at/start overly elaborate arguments with me, please.
Rimmer’s uniform is the exact same, it always had that stitching. First the H now this, next you’re going to tell me they’ve given Lister dreadlocks.
Rimmer’s uniform is the exact same, it always had that stitching It looks slightly different in this photo, more prominent than before, although again that could be the lighting. next you’re going to tell me they’ve given Lister dreadlocks Next you’re going to tell me that Kryten’s mask has always looked the same.
After everything that’s been said on that there other thread about spoilers and going in blind, do we think it may be a wee bit Spoilery, or at least give a bit more of a clue to the storyline than those peeps would like? We’re never going to not talk about something that’s been properly released by GNP or Dave. It’s all in the microdot.
Identity Within isn’t great. i always put that down to the fact that it was written by someone else other than one of the original writers. but in a way its at least more consistent then Can of worms was with the cat’s character. which is strange when you think about it.
What I’m curious is, going off the Gazpacho Soup set report and the Byte 2 of the G&T one, this episode isn’t exclusively a Cat episode. I’m thinking the feral cats aren’t the main focus of this story, but are one of maybe a few cogs in the plot, maybe Rodon is the big bad to the bigger bad that has yet to be revealed.
Btw Rod-on, I didn’t notice that till someone on Twitter pointed it out but his name is literally Hard-on, lol. Is this what Danny meant when he was trying to “forget about the erection” from that Instagram post? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssnw2GA657s
What I’m curious is, going off the Gazpacho Soup set report and the Byte 2 of the G&T one, this episode isn’t exclusively a Cat episode. I’m thinking the feral cats aren’t the main focus of this story, but are one of maybe a few cogs in the plot, maybe Rodon is the big bad to the bigger bad that has yet to be revealed. That could just mean Doug has found a use for all of them. Lister is the cat god, so how would that go down if he found the cats. Cat is a Cat, Rimmer and kryten… i dunno. Holly… i dunno, Chinese whispers maybe? Funny enough i remember around the time of series 10, Craig was talking about how they wanted Madonna to play the Cat Queen or something for the movie.
> Not the most interesting thing about that photo though Well I’ve Esper-ed the fuck out of it using just my shit human eyes. Rimmer seems to be carrying something by a handle, a box or case of some kind maybe. Lister has something in his hand as well. I’m guessing it’s only interesting because you were at one of the recordings and so you can’t tell us, Pete?
Yeah I remember that interview. Pretty sure Craig misspoke and meant the Homo Sapenoid Queen that’s in the leaked concept art. There’s an interview with Doug from 2018 I believe where he mentions Steve Martin wanted to be in the movie too.
With the magic of curves on Photoshop, I can exclusively reveal that Lister is holding something small in his hand, which looks to have a button on it, I’m going detonator remote or summat, and Rimmer is carrying a box with a handle which has seems to have been blended out to black, but if looks like the black box from Thanks for the Memory (Memories on Blu-ray) shape wise, or an old cassette storage box from the 80s. I’m going to say it’s some kind of explosive device. Could be a teleporter or something sci-fi though.
There’s an interview with Doug from 2018 I believe where he mentions Steve Martin wanted to be in the movie too. As a pink panther.
Good spot that whatever Rimmer’s holding has been digitally removed! I hope it is a Paw Patrol lunchbox.
We’re never going to not talk about something that’s been properly released by GNP or Dave. It’s all in the microdot. Yes, I did read that the other day. That’s partly what the I don’t know, so don’t look at/start overly elaborate arguments with me, please. was supposed to be addressing. I was merely playing ‘Devil’s Advocaat’, as a guy once said.
Rimmer’s outfit is dearly helped by that lighting. Looks much less drab and dull than in most of the last few series.
The words Ray Fearon and Rodon keep merging in my head into Ray Reardon, the snooker player whose nickname was Dracula because his hair and teeth made him look like the eponymous Count. Just like the Cat does! Anyway I see that Ray Fearon was in Corrie at the same time as Craig for about a year (2005 – 2006), and a 2011 episode of Death in Paradise with Danny.
I’ve only seen him in Fleabag (which seems to be what he’s most famous for) and I enjoyed him there. Shocked to find he was in Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone of all things.
I see that Ray Fearon was in Corrie at the same time as Craig for about a year (2005 – 2006), and a 2011 episode of Death in Paradise with Danny. But no Prince Among Men or I, Lovett.
On instagram someone posted a selfie with Robert in the Kryten make up, and it looks like its from the recent filming. His costume. from what can be seen of it, looks abit rusted. which i assume is part of the episode and they did not just get the costume out of storage and were like ah good enough! https://www.instagram.com/p/B7tSugmBOJL/
I think Kryten being in a state of disrepair must be hugely important to the plot of this episode for it to have been so creatively and consistently concealed in all the *officially* released promo material so far. (This is amusingly unravelled by the fact that it’s clear as day in all the stuff the cast etc have spunked out on social media.) Either way I am hugely intrigued by this, as we now have clues that at least two of the main characters have epochal experiences in this episode far beyond anything they’ve had before. Which again leads me to thinking it really does seem very grand finale-ish in scope…
Looks like Kryten has had a metal plate bolted to his chest. Maybe it’s a similar incident like at the beginning of Terrorform only he’s not been fully-repaired or maybe he’s been getting tortured by the feral cats? Something along those lines.
we now have clues that at least two of the main characters have epochal experiences in this episode far beyond anything they’ve had before. From what the Gazpacho Soup set report said, it also sounds as if Rimmer will be getting some character-changing moment as well, assuming you were referring to just Kryten and Cat. Lister will probably be getting some new revelations as well too, since he’s said to have more prominence than Kryten who’s already been shown to have undergone some changes himself. The special is shaping up to have a role for everybody in this in some form.
Leave the revelations alone Doug. we don’t need another Lister is his own father type reveal, or Rimmer father isn’t his father, and his brother is secretly exactly the same as him, type of revelations. they may sound good in theory, but they come out messy as. Stick to gradual development.
The Trojan one makes The Beginning one pointless though. Rimmer’s always compared himself to his amazing space hero brothers, and he’s got nowhere near, so the reveal he’s only their half brother makes sense, if they hadn’t already revealed that his brothers were just as useless even with a different father. No issue with the paternity one on its own, as I said it would make sense and be funny if not for Trojan pissing on it’s chips, but I was a bit annoyed that they undid Rimmer’s brothers being cool. Sort of messes with the concept of Ace Rimmer and Dimension Jump too.
we now have clues that at least two of the main characters have epochal experiences in this episode far beyond anything they’ve had before I don’t know, with all the ways Kryten has been destroyed and dismantled in the past, a bit of rust is nothing. Either way though, it’s still intriguing.
>The Trojan one makes The Beginning one pointless though. Indeed. And given the choice, I’d ditch The Beginning one anytime, Either way, it’s really odd we got both in one series. Pick on someone else’s backstory, Doug!
Like every debate about Dwarf, we’ve had this one a million times and it goes the same way a million times; you say them not being full brothers makes it pointless, I say them being raised together makes them likely to inherit similar traits anyway, you say it’s a “Nature vs. Nuture” debate. The end. I like both, I think Rimmer being illegitimate gave his dad plausible reason to treat him worse off. Many people don’t like the characters having layers added to their established backstories, but I’d rather they have ever expanding histories than keeping to a strict guideline set by older series. It’s not two writers it’s one and his vision, you could stick to the first six and call it a day. They’re not going anywhere.
>I say them being raised together makes them likely to inherit similar traits anyway And then I mention that Rimmer’s got two other brothers who, like Howard, were academy educated and went on to do pretty well. It’s a classic tale.
There’s layering and there’s painting over completely. Dad revelation, layer. Brothers being dense, painting over. You can add to a character and still use the continuity, it’s not like Red Dwarf has a huge lore, just a small smattering of character history, but Dave Dwarf at times seems intent on ignoring and reinventing when there’s no need. I also think that just because you could choose to not watch the new ones, that considering we all have, that a particularly honking story can affect your enjoyment of what has gone before just because you’ll be reminded of it as you’re watching the old one. Sort of like how “it was all a dream” endings taint the series previous.
Both Trojan and The Beginning’s revelations work for their episodes, and I don’t agree that one undermines the other or that either undermine Rimmer’s characterisation, as the point has always been his *perception* of these inequalities and the idea that he doesn’t measure up, not so much the reality.
This supposed contradiction between Trojan and The Beginning is less egregious than Back to Reality asserting that Sebastian Doyle being Rimmer’s brother means he can no longer blame his failures on his upbringing, when the fact that he had very successful brothers with the same upbringing as him was already a core aspect of his backstory. Yet weirdly people don’t seem to have as big a problem with that one… (Though I know you can argue that Kryten was just misunderstanding the situation, and the real reason it was a nightmare for Rimmer was that it was Lister specifically who became his more successful brother.) Actually that ends up being a nice “it’s like poetry, they rhyme” situation. William Doyle was the half-brother of his more successful sibling, and Rimmer was revealed to be a half-brother to the other Rimmer sons in The Beginning.
Well with Rimmer he tries and fails, and then he blames his upbringing for his lack of success. even though he had brothers who were successful. with William Doyle its hard to say he was someone who even tried. For me the revelation in the beginning, is kinda messy in itself. i ain’t even too sure Doug even knows what he is trying to say with it. that Rimmer’s downfalls are because of his genes or heritage? which there are some lines in there that almost make it sound like that. or that its all purely about Rimmer feeling he can stop trying to appease the father who is either a complete asshole as some moments suggest or actually not that bad after all, since the guy decided to not ruin rimmer chance of success by only telling him of his heritage after he fulfilled all his dreams and wouldn’t care anymore. and i have tried to watch the scene back and see it through a different light, but it constantly just feels clunky to me. As for the Rimmer brother thing. thats abit overkill. i ain’t sure we needed 2 episodes of Rimmer discovering a revelation about his family in the same series. whether that one makes sense or no.. it would involve thinking about how it works with The Beginning, whether you wanna take the gene and heritage theory into consideration ect ect. There was always a sorta sophistication behind Rimmer’s upbringing, which sort of turned soap opera.
There are lots of class issues tied up with the revelation of The Beginning that really set it apart from Trojan I think. Trojan gets easy laughs from its reveal but it doesn’t run as deep or even try to be as meaningful as The Beginning. In The Beginning, the revelation’s impact on Rimmer seems to be that he goes from thinking of himself as someone who is from an officer-class background who has let his family down by underachieving, to thinking of himself as someone who is from working-class stock and has achieved stuff with his life that exceeds what he now considers to be his humble beginnings. Even though obviously he’s objectively still the same person. And then that new take on how he has exceeded his beginnings gives him the confidence to achieve more with his life, and less hangups related to his family background. Snacky encounter notwithstanding. That’s all fairly deep stuff and I don’t think Trojan really undermines it in any meaningful way.
Isn’t it only Howard who is revealed to be just as lame as Rimmer? And that doesn’t ruin anything, in my opinion, because Rimmer DID NOT KNOW THAT for the first… fifty(?) years of his… “life”, so that information could not affect him UNTIL Trojan, and he lived his life up until then AS IF Howard went on to do really well, which is what really matters. Reality matters less than one’s perception of it. Much like how retconning the Time War does not change one iota of Nine, Ten, or Eleven-until-that-point’s character development. They still BELIEVE the same things, so it still affects them on a personal level in exactly the same way. The dramatic irony of us knowing what really happened doesn’t change that our characters are unaware of the truth. In a way you could argue that it makes it even more tragic, because they’re putting themselves through such hardship for no real reason other than their own beliefs.
Pretty sure no one’s said anything about the Howard retcon *on its own*. Only when analysed at the same time as the Dungo revelation. >exceeds what he now considers to be his humble beginnings. “My father was a half-crazed military failure, my mother was a bitch-queen from hell. My brother had all the looks and talent. What did I have? Unmanageable hair and ingrowing toenails. Yes, I admit I’m nothing. But from what I started with, nothing is up” Sounds like he was already deluding himself that his beginnings were humble, because he was blaming all his hang-ups on his parents (and brothers), and evaluating that he’d done as best as he could in that family environment. (This is obviously a delusion because; Ace). If the intention with The Beginning was to change Rimmer’s personality by removing his defence mechanism of blaming Mr Rimmer’s voice in his head, then it’s gone nowhere…because we don’t want Rimmer without his neuroses and hang-ups.
There was always a sorta sophistication behind Rimmer’s upbringing, which sort of turned soap opera. Alright now really, I think we’re elevating pre-VI Red Dwarf to some ludicrous levels right now when we start calling basic stuff like Rimmer being the loser of his siblings “sophisticated.” You could say it was relatable, you could say it was better done even, but at the end of the day it really doesn’t take a rocket scientist to craft that concept up.
There was always a sorta sophistication behind Rimmer’s upbringing, which sort of turned soap opera. Alright now really, I think we’re elevating pre-VI Red Dwarf to some ludicrous levels right now when we start calling basic stuff like Rimmer being the loser of his siblings “sophisticated.” You could say it was relatable, you could say it was better done even, but at the end of the day it really doesn’t take a rocket scientist to craft that concept up. But it is. we had glimpses into Rimmer’s upbringing in multiple episodes over the years. whether its the chest that his father gave him, how his father raised them fairly strictly in BTL, or a mention in the inquisitor. and then of course when you look at the character of Ace Rimmer. Rob and Doug really put some sophisticated writing into explaining why Rimmer and Ace were different. it wasn’t that his family was different or that one had the advantages, its that one did something else in their life that the other did not do in his life. What series 10 does. is kinda close to Soap opera writing. you know the jokes you hear about 90s American soaps, maybe they are still like that, i have no idea. but something would happen like a relative dies, then later on a secret twin brother/sister of that relative turns up at the door that no one knew about. SHOCK!, but it turns out that twin… was an evil twin… SUPER SHOCK!. and actually, if you watch an american show called Riverdale… that show is pretty bad for that stuff.
“My father was a half-crazed military failure, my mother was a bitch-queen from hell. My brother had all the looks and talent. What did I have? Unmanageable hair and ingrowing toenails. Yes, I admit I’m nothing. But from what I started with, nothing is up” Sounds like he was already deluding himself that his beginnings were humble, because he was blaming all his hang-ups on his parents (and brothers), and evaluating that he’d done as best as he could in that family environment. (This is obviously a delusion because; Ace). I think that all works though. He feels that he hasn’t lived up to the expectations of his family and more widely his social class, but he finds excuses to explain why his underachieving is all someone else’s fault. (And disproving those excuses is what Ace is all about.) Whether rightly or wrongly (given the questionable politics of it), the revelation of The Beginning changes his perspective on that by lowering the bar for achievement and removing some of that weight of expectation. But because Red Dwarf is an ongoing sitcom and needs its characters to remain somewhat static, that’s never really been properly followed up on after The Beginning. It would arguably have been a better episode had it been the final ever episode of Red Dwarf.
Isn’t it only Howard who is revealed to be just as lame as Rimmer? And that doesn’t ruin anything, in my opinion, because Rimmer DID NOT KNOW THAT for the first… fifty(?) years of his… “life”, so that information could not affect him UNTIL Trojan, and he lived his life up until then AS IF Howard went on to do really well, which is what really matters. Reality matters less than one’s perception of it. Yeah, a lot of this stuff only really matters in as much as it affects Rimmer’s own outlook on his life, and on that level I think it all works.
What series 10 does. is kinda close to Soap opera writing. you know the jokes you hear about 90s American soaps, maybe they are still like that, i have no idea. but something would happen like a relative dies, then later on a secret twin brother/sister of that relative turns up at the door that no one knew about. SHOCK!, but it turns out that twin… was an evil twin… SUPER SHOCK!. and actually, if you watch an american show called Riverdale… that show is pretty bad for that stuff. I honestly don’t understand what you’re trying to tell me here. Is it cause Red Dwarf did a twist that it’s like a “90s American soap” or something?
I honestly don’t understand what you’re trying to tell me here. Is it cause Red Dwarf did a twist that it’s like a “90s American soap” or something? It is the quality of storytelling i am comparing.
I don’t particularly like twists that go nowehere, either. I agree it might have worked if this had been the last episode, and we could assume that Rimmer would go on to live a happy death, free from his hangups. But while the title of the episode was -maybe- suggesting that, I think there was an an intention to make more. (At least, I hope there was bearing in mind the compromised production of X). “I’ve got some issues with my father who I’ve recently discovered wasn’t my father. Also I’ve got some issues with my mother who, very sadly, IS my mother” Well, it was worth it for that line, I guess.
So has anyone seen the Pilot TV exclusive interview yet? (He’s making it up isn’t he, the bloody book doesn’t exist).
Coming back to Rodon, I wonder if there’s any chance that having ‘named’ Cats in this episode will force them to address the elephant in the room that our Cat doesn’t have a proper name of his own (at least, that we know of).
“Also, I’ve got brothers… I better sit down”. I was thinking that was well, Dave, how Cat doesn’t have a name, and the rest of them having names would be weird. But then, it has been what, 700 years, give or take, since The End? So they could have developed since then, obviously.
I always thought the line “he hasn’t got a name, we just call him Cat” was quite a sad acknowledgement. It would be like them calling Kryten “robot”.
I doubt they’ll reveal his name, in any case, it doesn’t make a lot of sense if they would (and don’t bother replying with whatever cynical take on Dave Dwarf writing you have for this, it gets annoying when people derail discussions on here so we can get their soapbox rerun on the “glory days”). Assuming the feral cats weren’t in stasis, they’re likely an enclave who would be unlikely to remember the name of the cat they abandoned on Red Dwarf centuries ago. Unless they have it in writing, it wouldn’t make sense to retain such irrelevant knowledge. It’s more likely he’ll get a new one. In any case, they might just do what they did in Siliconia and have a character run-in mid-name reveal.
It just easier to assume the cat doesn’t have a name. infact its get abit complicated when you try and connect the dots to Cat and his people. the only source we have seen of this is the Cat priest and yeah after they left on the arcs they probably did gradually evolve abit to have names. There probably would be no reason to turn the name thing into something relevant though. nor would it be worth the time really.
Even when cats have names, you still call them cat. So it’s realistic that the humans around would just call him Cat. Every cat I’ve ever owned has had a name, and each name has been uttered about 3 times before I just started saying ‘Cat’ instead.
I’ve never heard of anybody calling their cat “cat”, lol I was thinking actually, it might be a northern thing. Rob and Doug are Northern so… “Has the cat been fed?” “Where’s the cat?” “Cat, get down!” “Cat, shut the fuck up” etc etc
Those first two, sure, but everyone I know calls their car by their name if they’re talking directly to it. Could be a North (of England) -ern thing
i imagine if Cat had an actual name it would be something weird-sounding like Noel Beurgerac, Brichel Corvelay or Mistine Preston. just because it’d be the last thing you would expect his name to be
Rob told me it was originally going to be Horatio Clumperdunk but Doug didn’t like it, The simmering feud over his name came to a head during the writing of lost episode “Slam Clumperdunk” where it was to be revealed. This episode would be replaced by Out of Time, and Rob would depart soon after.
Jim Reaper refers to Kryten as a “Kryten Series Three” in ‘The Last Day’, and this is reflected on the manual Lister is seen reading later in the episode. Given that Hudzen 10 is both his model and name, I think their early idea was that all models in the Kryten range were called Kryten. This obviously goes out the window quickly, as we get Series 4000 from the next season owards. Cat being called just Cat reminds me of my nan’s dog who was just referred to as “dog” or “the dog”.
This episode would be replaced by Out of Time, and Rob would depart soon after. Was that before or after Rob marched into the GNP offices with his lawyers demanding sacks of money with Robert Llewellyn in ear-shot?
Cat will only tell his real name to his wife, but when questioned about it, Lister will emphatically tell the cat race that his name is Cat.
Kryten’s/ mechanoid history is a bit all over the place in Red Dwarf. A Series 3 Kryten could quite easily be the third revision of the series 4000 mechanoid Kryten, 4000.3, but then stuff like the Hudzen 10 only appearing once he was on Red Dwarf, even though he’d been on the Nova 5 long enough for a new model to come out, establishing the series 3000 as a replica human (unless you attribute that to the unreality bubble too) and then making Butler one, and getting Kryten’s name wrong in the episode written by Robert haha Oh, and Ace knowing and serving with 4000 series mechs even though he was from over a century prior to their creation. (Right?)
A Series 3 Kryten could quite easily be the third revision of the series 4000 mechanoid Kryten, 4000.3, but then stuff like the Hudzen 10 only appearing once he was on Red Dwarf, even though he’d been on the Nova 5 long enough for a new model to come out, establishing the series 3000 as a replica human (unless you attribute that to the unreality bubble too) and then making Butler one, and getting Kryten’s name wrong in the episode written by Robert haha My head hurts.
>Oh, and Ace knowing and serving with 4000 series mechs even though he was from over a century prior to their creation Well, at least this can be explained away by him being from a parallel universe
They never actually ask if Cat has a name or not, Lister just starts calling him cat from the start. Side note, my cat doesn’t have a name either. Also I’ve read cat so much in the last few minutes it’s starting to sound odd in my head.
They never actually ask if Cat has a name or not, Lister just starts calling him cat from the start. It would be great if Cat just never mentioned his name for fear of awkwardness over the whole “hullo… Cat?” thing.
I’ve never heard of anybody calling their cat “cat”, lol I think it’s quite common. One of my friends had a cat just referred to as “the cat” until everyone decided on a name a few years later.
it would strike me that Cat doesn’t care, he just meets people and starts responding to whatever they call him. If his name ever comes up he’d probably all “well you never asked” sort of thing. Or the reason he has nicknames for everyone, is because he thinks calling him Cat is a nickname and he is just joining in. Or both. Or none of them.
And now watch the Special not touch on any of these issues whatsoever. It would seem a little off if, when meeting some of his people for the first time in 30 years, they don’t question why he doesn’t have a name, and why he lets these other creatures degrade him by just calling him by his species. Be like an alien just calling us Human. But equally, Red Dwarf doesn’t have to address those things, especially if they get in the way of plot so … who knows. But its an interesting discussion none-the-less.
There are cat experts that believe that it is a possibility that cats could develop ‘names’ for each other if they opt for mutual cat-to-cat verbal communication, which can happen in certain environments. We had two that ‘talked’ to each other a lot and we were reasonably sure we picked up common elements that appeared to be or could well have been ‘names’ as we might know them. There were definitely ‘words’ that they would frequently use when trying to get the other to come to them, that they didn’t use in any other situation. All very theoretical and impossible to test but I think there’s possibly something in it.
I do love how we’re trying to apply re-world theoretical science and casual observation of domesticated house cats, to a tv show that has a 3million year evolved humanoid species that can smell things through space!
> I do love how we’re trying to apply re-world theoretical science and casual observation of domesticated house cats, to a tv show that has a 3million year evolved humanoid species that can smell things through space! Well, the interview in Pilot TV mentions a “human-sized cat-flap” so, y’know.
Well, the interview in Pilot TV mentions a “human-sized cat-flap” so, y’know. You’re telling me you have the interview and you’re not showing us it (specifically me cause I can’t be bothered looking around)
Doesn’t he have a name in Infinity Welcomes Carefull Drivers? Or that he has a name but wouldn’t tell them or something
Among the users with chest hair in 2009, how long did it take for Back to Earth to get it’s title. Honestly I think it’s taking longer than it really should for us to find it out.
I wonder if it depends on the broadcast date. I’d expect to know the title a couple of months before it goes out.
Just having a quick look back at old G&T articles, the specials were announced in September 2018 and filming started in February as the head fuck Monday article suggests as they talk about the Carbug and Corrie leaks. In that’s article we have the title of the episode already. So we knew it would be called Back to Earth before filming had started. It then aired less than 3 months later in April. That was all a very different production though, and they knew when it was going to air really early on too if memory serves. Shit was leaking out all over the place and it was all quite rushed. This is special is a bit more traditional and they likely have a set plan for PR on the run up to whatever broadcast date they have, so if that isn’t for a while I suspect we won’t get an episode title until that date is revealed.
I thought it was Easter Sunday? Was that not confirmed somewhere or am I losing my mind? It could well be the latter.
I think we all speculated it’d be Easter again (or Richard *may* have hinted at/said it might be nice if it was that day), but nothing was ever officially confirmed.
Thanks, I genuinely couldn’t remember. Easter weekend is a great time for event TV, much better than Christmas/New Year. Hope it lands there.
The Back to earth title being released early on is like releasing a movie title. And back to earth was treated abit like a movie. This special may be treated more like an extended episode of a series.
Back To Earth was treated so much like a movie it was broadcast in three episodes. Whereas the new episode is being treated more like a series by being broadcast as a movie. Yep, checks out.
I imagine Dave wanted it as 3 parts. but in terms of how Doug wanted it to look. the DVD or “Directors cut” is probably it. Id be shocked if this new special is treated anything like the way they did BTE.
I thought BTE was designed as a two-parter from the off? And then reworked as three when the ‘unplugged’ show was dropped. Am I misremembering? I didn’t think it was ever primarily designed as a movie-style single extended episode.
It was 2 parts and a Red Dwarf unplanned special. the unplanned special got axed and then a 3rd episode was brought in to replace it. Then they were shoved together for the DVD where Doug made the end credits extra long to give the special a movie feel.
So BTE wasn’t really treated like a movie at all, then, other than being compiled into a single episode for the DVD.
There are several things in BTE where you can tell Doug was treating it abit like a movie. Yeah it was originally gonna be in 2 parts, but then beggars can’t be choosers. Doug took the lack of money Dave offered and put together whatever he could. and its clear Doug wanted something more filmic. even if it was only 45 minutes long.
It was supposed to be 2×30″, and as a result the 3×25″ edit leaves way too much running long or loose, just to keep the running time up. Not sure when Doug discovered they’d need to do this but it’s obvious watching the episodes now how slooooooow the cutting is. Anything at all to gain seconds. And a three minute driving montage. Let’s also remember that it was designed to have a laugh track recorded as well at the Unplugged taping, hence the weird Xtended style atmosphere where the cast leave gaps for laughs that never come. Gaps which nonetheless they retained. In theory the 2 part version is still possible. But the movie version is just the 3 part version jammied up with new stuff over the cliffhangers and very long end credits. It exacerbates the pacing problem.
I’m still concerned how they will re-introduce Holly to the series. I don’t know why it even bugs me, Red Dwarf is full of plot holes. I just hope they give a good or believable explanation. Hopefully referencing the water damage from BTE and that it doesn’t contradict anything from M-Corp.
What if it isn’t our Holly, but a version of Holly the cats took on their ships they built. Our Holly seems to know an awful lot about them in The End, able to explain their evolution and history to Lister and Rimmer. He probably interacted with them once they evolved to a certain point. Maybe he even helped them build their ships, and in doing so, a version of him was installed as part of the computer programs.
I hadn’t thought about that, but you’re right. Holly is the universe’s foremost expert on the cat people.
Seems pretty unbelievable, Holly’s main perogative has always been to keep Lister sane, why he’d form alliances with the two cat fractions seems really out-of-character. I wouldn’t be happy if that turns out what’s happening.
Holly doesn’t appear in (and doesn’t seem to have an ability to observe) the area down where Lister visits the Cat priest in Waiting For God. And we assume that Cat’s appearance in The End is the first time he’s left the area that was sealed during the radiation leak. So it’s a bit unclear how much Holly and the Cats have interacted up to that point. Holly does seem to know about them very quickly though.
Outside of, “What’s the short version?” “Bye.” I don’t think Holly and Cat have ever spoken to each other. Could be wrong though.
I actually think Holly and Cat would vibe well together, since they’re both idiots and usually clueless about everything. I think there’s some unmined potential there.
Outside of, “What’s the short version?” “Bye.” I don’t think Holly and Cat have ever spoken to each other. Could be wrong though. Cat has quite a long chat with Holly in Queeg, when he’s been demoted to night watchman. Of course, Cat also talks to Queeg, which technically counts too.
I actually think Holly and Cat would vibe well together, since they’re both idiots and usually clueless about everything. I think there’s some unmined potential there. formica
Of course, Cat also talks to Queeg, which technically counts too. Not really. Sure, Holly is Queeg, but they’re essentially different characters. formica Yeah I was thinking that too, but I realized that’s a different thing cause it’s Lister trying to reason with Cat that something is incorrect. Holly and Cat would be blindly agreeing with each other, and possibly correcting each other incorrectly.
Alot of Cat lines in series 11 and 12 could easily have gone to Holly instead. But then i am talking more series 8 holly in that respect. the same Holly that talked about becoming a dog and the theory you only tell your parents could easily work with that whole Cat formica speech. But then isn’t calling holly an idiot more a false caricature of the Holly character? Holly and Cat have interacted before but they are very different characters.
> it’s a bit unclear how much Holly and the Cats have interacted up to that point. Holly does seem to know about them very quickly though. He knows about the cats in the novel at least, and worries about all the supplies they’re using up. IIRC he just leaves them to it though, so maybe he could see them, but not interact with them, and they couldn’t see him. There’s also the ‘Lister the God’ comic in the Smegazine, where the cats can see Holly and they call him “the Holy” and he’s become an icon in the cat religion.
Thinking about that and quinn_drummer’s idea, the set report did say that Holly/Norman had some unusual things to do.
He knows about the cats in the novel at least, and worries about all the supplies they’re using up. IIRC he just leaves them to it though, so maybe he could see them, but not interact with them, and they couldn’t see him. There’s also the ‘Lister the God’ comic in the Smegazine, where the cats can see Holly and they call him “the Holy” and he’s become an icon in the cat religion. Remember we only know of “feral cats”, and when they say feral I assume these cats wouldn’t observe the religious customs of their ancestors, especially with the lack of blue and red hats.
He knows about the cats in the novel at least, and worries about all the supplies they’re using up. IIRC he just leaves them to it though, so maybe he could see them, but not interact with them, and they couldn’t see him. There’s also the ‘Lister the God’ comic in the Smegazine, where the cats can see Holly and they call him “the Holy” and he’s become an icon in the cat religion. Remember we only know of “feral cats”, and when they say feral I assume these cats wouldn’t observe the religious customs of their ancestors, especially with the lack of blue and red hats. I’d say feral means the opposite in a Red Dwarf context. Remember the cats had a holy war over some hats. The Cat is domesticated, used to humans and their culture and behaviour, feral cats would be the original cats, no human interaction, no mellowing of their religion or hunting and fighting instincts. Although the human sized cat flap might suggest something more stupid, like them just being thick.
Oh, I was just pointing out that that comic has an interesting take on the relationship between the cat race and Holly, really. But maybe they are doing something outlandish like that with Holly in the special. I suppose quinn_drummer’s idea could be a bit like the egghead Holly in VIII, or he could be senile but… cattified somehow.
Remember we only know of “feral cats”, and when they say feral I assume these cats wouldn’t observe the religious customs of their ancestors, especially with the lack of blue and red hats. I’d say feral means the opposite in a Red Dwarf context. Remember the cats had a holy war over some hats. The Cat is domesticated, used to humans and their culture and behaviour, feral cats would be the original cats, no human interaction, no mellowing of their religion or hunting and fighting instincts. That seems redundant then to describe them as “feral cats” really, as Cat is the only domesticated felis sapien we are aware of. I believe the clear distinction made with calling them “feral cats” means there is an opposing force to these possibly atheist cats. I’m putting my money on a Demons & Angels-esque situation here where the feral cats led by Rodon are the more sinister, antagonists of the episode while there also exists a peaceful side, who I would assume own a human-sized cat-flap.
Remember we only know of “feral cats”, and when they say feral I assume these cats wouldn’t observe the religious customs of their ancestors, especially with the lack of blue and red hats. I’d say feral means the opposite in a Red Dwarf context. Remember the cats had a holy war over some hats. The Cat is domesticated, used to humans and their culture and behaviour, feral cats would be the original cats, no human interaction, no mellowing of their religion or hunting and fighting instincts. That seems redundant then to describe as “feral cats” to begin with, as Cat is the only domesticated felis sapien we are aware of. I believe the clear distinction made with calling them “feral cats” means there is an opposing force to these possibly atheist cats. I’m putting my money on a Demons & Angels-esque situation here where the feral cats led by Rodon are the more sinister, antagonists of the episode while there also exists a peaceful side, who I would assume own a human-sized cat-flap. Personally I’d put a quid on Doug going for religious radicals as some kind of social commentary. They’ll be radical cats, who actually turn out to be idiots and they’ll likely end up destroying themselves in a comedic way when the Dwarfers escape.
That seems redundant then to describe as “feral cats” to begin with, as Cat is the only domesticated felis sapien we are aware of. I believe the clear distinction made with calling them “feral cats” means there is an opposing force to these possibly atheist cats. I’m putting my money on a Demons & Angels-esque situation here where the feral cats led by Rodon are the more sinister, antagonists of the episode while there also exists a peaceful side, who I would assume own a human-sized cat-flap. Personally I’d put a quid on Doug going for religious radicals as some kind of social commentary. They’ll be radical cats, who actually turn out to be idiots and they’ll likely end up destroying themselves in a comedic way when the Dwarfers escape. There was some hint towards social commentary from the set reports given (though I think they meant it was more a one-off joke than part of the plot but idk).
I have to say we, myself included, have all done very well at speculating from a photo of a bloke sat down. It’s going to be a long ten weeks. If they release a photo of him stood up as well we could probably keep that top spinning til Christmas.
All this talk and the cat race could end up a very small part in this special for all we know. Remember that image released of old aged lister from M-Corp? Was for less then a minute of screen time. But you could have easily been fooled into thinking it was more an important part of a story
I can’t imagine the Cat race would be brought back as a minor tiny little piece of the special considering how big a part of the show’s mythology it really is. I see this kind of extended running time as the perfect opportunity to finally address those questions hanging in the air for 30 years in a meaningful way without it feeling rushed.
I really hope that’s the case Katy. But at the same time I will not at all be surprised if Dax is right. I pretty much expect it. The only thing that has me thinking they’ll be more than just 1 scene is casting a “known” actor in the role of the lead cat.
By tomorrow it’ll be about 20 days since we last got Red Dwarf special news, so I assume we’re getting something either on the 15 or the day before. A title at the very least.
This all seems about normal tbh. the last 3 series were not giving out titles until 2 weeks or something before release. unless it was back to earth but that was a different beast apparently. Danny has posted an image on his instagram. him doing ADR. there is image of Lister and cat on greenscreen.
Yeah I saw that, Cat looked really good tbh. I think the reaction to his outfit was a bit overblown cause Danny seems like he pulls it off on the screen
Veni you son of a bitch you were right. More news at 11.30 today https://twitter.com/RedDwarfHQ/status/1228256509915779074
Just caught a new banner featuring Rodon, might prove to be one of the more rarer ones to achieve in the near future.
I got Doug in the cockpit doorway earlier but I’ve also just seen the artwork of the crew from the cover of the first Smegazine, which is a banner I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen before. Is that just a really rare one, or have a few new ones been added along with the Promised Land publicity photos I wonder. I used to see Norm’s black and white frowny eyes fairly often but haven’t for ages, so I’m guessing that’s been retired.
I did the Smegazine one ages ago but noticed it wasn’t in the folder when I added the new ones! Not sure about Norm’s scary eyes, but I think it’s still in there.
