Did you see Doctor Who? – Spoilers!

[penny]

So much better than the Chrismas ep, which lets face it was cheesy humour with eye candy for guys and girls…the part with the sparks behind Tennant bit was lovely, but I did think the episode had turned in to an aftershave advert when they did that.

Anyway, on to today’s one…So went “What!? What!? What!?” when Rose turned round.
I’m still not totally in to Tate’s character (she’s a bit annoying). I kind of liked her as a one off type character.

The fat tissue baby creatures were cute though…awwwww!

Topic

[Andrew]

> Considering only 3 out of the 6 Jekyll episodes were any good and Coupling was mostly a piece of shit, this is good news HOW??????

Just when you think the internet has exhausted it’s supply of stupid…

“Hacks”!?! For fuck’s sake…

[Smeg4Brains]

> Coupling was mostly a piece of shit,

Hang your head in shame

[Seb Patrick]

monkey, I can’t tell if your post about Coupling was sarcastic, but if it wasn’t, you’re so wrong as to not be worth bothering to engage with on this one ;-)

[Pete Part Three]

Coupling was occasionally very clever, but I’d hesitate to call it “funny”, and Jack Davenport irritates me no end.

But Blink was the best thing on TV since…I can’t remember when. The Girl in the Fireplace was similarly wonderful. They are the benchmarks that all new Doctor Who should aspire to, so it’s only right that the man responsible should be put in a more controlling role of the series.

[Andrew]

Ugh – ‘next page’ buttons!

[John Hoare]

Ugh – ?next page? buttons!

Fixed – I didn’t expect ANY thread to get past 300 posts!

Will have to change it so people can select whether to have pagination or not at some point, though (and make it so the pagination system actually *works* properly, rather than being a confusing mess). I know most people here prefer it all on one page, but once a thread gets this long and unwieldly it starts to annoy me!

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

I’d go dance naked in the front yard cackling insanely with joy, but it looks like it’s gonna rain. So I’ll just smile quietly to myself.

[Dave]

> Coupling was mostly a piece of shit

I hated it.

>Blink was the best thing on TV since?I can?t remember when. The Girl in the Fireplace was similarly wonderful

Blink was the best thing on TV since The Girl in the Fireplace.

[Andrew]

But you don’t have to like a show to appreciate its qualities. You’d have to be an idiot to dismiss the construction of Moffat’s farces as hack work.

[Jonathan Capps]

> You?d have to be an idiot to dismiss the construction of Moffat?s farces as hack work.

Presactly.

Jekyll is probably the best thing to look at when trying to work out what His Who will be like, but only in the same way that, say, Queer as Folk was a good indication that RTD’s Who was going to be good. I loved 5 out of the 6 episodes of Jekyll – the ending was hugely disappointing, but nothing that some fine tuning couldn’t fix. The idea of Moffatt planning arcs, writing the big episodes and, hopefully, bringing Cornell into a bigger role sounds like the best thing in the world ever.

I hope with this that we get a clean break, though. I’d like RTD to be able to tie up Ten’s story and finish up with a regeneration obviously in tandem with Moffat’s plans (or, how about the last special being co-written by the two?) and then let Moffat’s Who instantly be able to find it’s own feet with brand new leads. That’d be my perfect scenario.

[Jonathan Capps]

Considering only 3 out of the 6 Jekyll episodes were any good and Coupling was mostly a piece of shit, this is good news HOW?????? And FFS Chalk, it?s NOT Brittas, it?s NOT Fawlty Towers, it?s crap! OK, Press Gang, I?ll give him that, maybe?

Before we know it Who could be all over in the blink of an eye, with the BBC dancing on the Doctor?s grave leaving the fans feeling like empty children being told there must be ?silence!? in the library of family sci-fi. The viewers could leave like?like girls in fireplaces bound for the Forest of the Dead. All joking apart, it?s gonna be like a curse of fatal death, a real time crash, something that Tintin himself couldn?t solve.

Where do they find these hacks? Why can?t RTD be showrunner forever??

YOU’VE READ IT. YOU CAN’T *UN*READ IT.

[TheLeen]

I’m taping this vlind becaise I don’t want to rad anmy spoulers.
But I wanted to sayx ” YAY MOffat” . Or something.
This teyt does pronanly sick.

Proceed.

[Seb Patrick]

Marleen, you need to stop being so awesome. It’s not good for morale.

[Andrew]

> I?d like RTD to be able to tie up Ten?s story and finish up with a regeneration obviously in tandem with Moffat?s plans

Yeah, I think that’s the great big hope now. That Tennant will stay for the specials next year (and tie up some Time War threads? Some hope!) and then Moffat gets to paint his own picture. And it looks likely that it’ll go this way.

That said, I can’t see a showrunner being at all unhappy to continue WITH Tennant, nor to absorb the RTD mythologies. The show’s in great shape, and you take it on as much because of its baggage as in spite of it. A clean slate can be difficult – like a cold start for a car when you could just letting off the handbreak at the lights.

Lord, the possibilities of how ANY of the episode styles will come out – straight horror, SF mysteries, out and out comedies – are mouth-watering.

[Pete Part Three]

I’d be disappointed if Tennant went as Moffat takes the reins. The central actor is going to have a huge influence over whether mainstream audiences enjoy the show. I don’t want people to be swayed into thinking that Moffat taking over from RTD was a bad thing if the show taking a downward turn is actually due to a miscast actor.

Have just re-read that and am not sure it makes any sense. Ah well. “Post Comment” it is.

[Jonathan Capps]

I have absolutely no fears about them miscasting Eleven. Tate aside, the casting has been pretty solid, especially some of the major characters. Eccleston and Tennant alone are 100% inspired choices and perfect for the show. I have no doubt’s that RTD’s golden touch will be involved with Eleven’s casting, so I have no worries of someone shit getting the job.

I guess the desire to see a new Doctor along with a new showrunner is rooted in traditionalism, as in my mind that’s what happened in the old series. In truth it didn’t happen like that all the time, but I can see problems with Tennant being the one and only hangover from the old production and maybe stifling the fresh feel a bit. Tom Baker and season 18 (17? Oh, you know what I mean) syndrome, if you like.

As much as I love the man to bits, Tennant has bored me this year. He’s almost felt by the numbers and ineffective compared to the almost uniform powerhouse performances from last year. After this year and the specials, I think Ten will be more than ready for a regeneration and the opportunity to take the character somewhere entirely new, in a way that only Who can do.

What I do find interesting about this announcement is they refer to him as being the lead writer and then to become executive producer/show runner in season 5. It’s almost suggesting he’ll be having a greater hand in the specials than we originally thought and, to be honest, RTD and Moffatt working closely together to see out Ten’s run gives me a funny feeling in my tummy.

[Jonathan Capps]

> Lord, the possibilities of how ANY of the episode styles will come out – straight horror, SF mysteries, out and out comedies – are mouth-watering.

Absolutely this. Aside from Moffatt’s considerable talent and track record, that fact that he’s such a different animal from RTD is one of the more exciting things about him taking over. He has the opportunity to genuinely surprise all over again, just like RTD did in series 1. He’s always talking about how much he loves RTD’s work, so I’m sure the legacy will be honoured, but as you say, the possibilities are as endless as they are mouth watering.

[Andrew]

> Tennant has bored me this year. He?s almost felt by the numbers and ineffective compared to the almost uniform powerhouse performances from last year.

I don’t think it’s the performance, I think it’s the writing. He’s not had much to sink his teeth into, emotionally-speaking, that hasn’t done what you’ve seen before.

> What I do find interesting about this announcement is they refer to him as being the lead writer and then to become executive producer/show runner in season 5.

I think you have to take the clunky online journalism with a pinch of salt. I had a similar debate with the new Bond movie – one bit of bad wording on BBC’s news site and suddenly every fan thought the director was rewriting the screenplay himself.

I think it’s just ‘taking over production in 2009, which will be the 2010 series’.

> He?s always talking about how much he loves RTD?s work, so I?m sure the legacy will be honoured, but as you say, the possibilities are as endless as they are mouth watering.

The only thing that concerns me is the emotional side. It’s my favourite thing about RTD’s contribution – the stronger comprehension of motivation, the way things have more clear meaning on a human level (I know the sense of distance is something a lot of people like about old Who; I often find it stifling). And it’s not Moffat’s general strength…though his Who work has actually shown a lot of ability in this area compared to much of his other stuff.

Still, a small concern for such enormous gains.

[pfm]

> I hated it.

Thankyou. Er, no wait a minute I never actually watched Coupling properly (as soon as I saw Sarah Alexander I had to go into the bathroom, for some reason…) so slagging it off was just a ridiculous falsity. And I fucking love Chalk, despite a lot of it obviously being poor. The greatness of Press Gang can’t be denied – http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YpaZcBoj-qY

Blink is wanked over way too much though. Yeah it’s a great episode but I seriously wish people would stop going on and on about it. It was the best thing on TV since Human Nature, which was the best thing on TV since Gridlock, which was the best thing on TV since Smith & Jones, which was the best thing on TV since The Impossible Planet, which was the best thing on TV since TGITFP, which was the best thing on TV since Billie made my cock go hard in New Earth, which was the best thing on TV since The Christmas Invasion, which was the best thing on TV since – http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QI04vi1Bpco, which was the best thing on TV since – The Doctor Dances, which was the bes thing on TV since Father’s Day, which was the best thing on TV since Dalek, which was the best thing on TV since The End Of The World, which was the best thing on TV since Rose, which was the best thing on TV since – http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LyuFbhbZ7Wo

[Tanya Jones]

pm, you’ve added NOTHING.

[pfm]

It doesn’t mean Moffat won’t continue to work on Tintin.

[Andrew]

> It doesn?t mean Moffat won?t continue to work on Tintin.

*sigh* Yes, absolutely. Spielberg has never used a single writer on any of his films, Moffat will be working on Who nine months of every year, and only the first Tintin will be shot by the time he starts work on Who 5 – it’s absolutely likely that he’ll be the only writer on the entire trilogy. Yep. Uh-huh.

[pfm]

I’m surprised it took you even 20 minutes to take the bait, Mr Ellard.

[Andrew]

You remain an inspiration, PM.

[Joey TORDFC]

Sorry but did ANYONE not see the direct homage to Psirens in the first five minutes? Or just me?

[ChrisM]

Sorry but did ANYONE not see the direct homage to Psirens in the first five minutes? Or just me?

The main antagonist being insectoid? That’s not an homage though cos that would need to be intentional.

I think insect like aliens are quite common in sci-fi simply because insects look pretty alien to us anyway don’t they? (Ironically they’ve been on earth longer than us though. According to natural history anyway.)

[Andrew]

The POV shot shifting upwards as the monster transformed looked a great deal like Psirens. Not that Dwarf was anywhere near the first to do it…

Back to the 2010 series for a moment and it occurs to me that a regeneration might be a bit of a poison chalice. A couple of episodes after the change things settle down and fine, it’s a fresh start, but the first episodes following a regeneration aren’t always the most dynamic.

I find the first halves of Spearhead From Space, Castrovalva and The Christmas Invasion to be very slow. Interestingly, I generally like the latter halves very much indeed – but the tradition of leaving the Doctor insensible following a transformation isn’t, dramatically, the best thing in the world. (Davison spending the bulk of two episodes in a box being carried around is especially pants.)

For a ‘check out our funky revamp and leading man’ opener, it could leave the makers a little hamstrung.

No question Davies made the right choice in Rose, a story that has a lot in common with the original Unearthly Child, using curious humans – and their first walk into the TARDIS – to introduce everything. And I’ve banged on before about The Movie’s miscalculation in only finding it’s leading man’s full personality half way through…

[pfm]

The regeneration aftermath of The Christmas Invasion allowed series 2 to have a fresh start. They need to do the same with series 5, the regeneration should happen in the previous Christmas ep (or maybe even before that) that way Moffat starts with a clean slate. New companion(s), new titles and music, new Tardis set, new filming style(?), new story arc (the Time War thread should end with series 4), new nemeses (let’s have a series WITHOUT any classic Who monsters/villains).

[Pete Part Three]

>new story arc (the Time War thread should end with series 4)

Do we need more time lords though?

>new nemeses (let?s have a series WITHOUT any classic Who monsters/villains).

I don’t see a problem with mining the show’s history, but they could certainly do without the Daleks for at least 13 episodes.

[Ian Symes]

I don?t see a problem with mining the show?s history, but they could certainly do without the Daleks for at least 13 episodes.

What, like they are now?

[Pete Part Three]

I was under the impression that they’re back in a couple of episodes time.

[Seb Patrick]

… which will have been more than 13 episodes since their last appearance.

Also, we should be careful about advance spoilers here, as some people like to avoid them. Obviously spoilers for broadcast stuff are fine, but let’s try not to discuss any known/speculated details of the finale, eh?

[Pete Part Three]

[Humble] Sorry [/Humble]

And fair enough about how far they’ve been gone. I should have said “a season” rather than “13 episodes”.

[Joey TORDFC]

>>The POV shot shifting upwards as the monster transformed looked a great deal like Psirens. Not that Dwarf was anywhere near the first to do it?

No no no…the whole metal pole shadow as the insect struck the victim. Almost identical to the psiren stabbing its victim with the straw to suck brain. I still can’t believe I’m the only one to spot this.

[Andrew]

> No no no?

Well I thought it did… :-p

> the whole metal pole shadow as the insect struck the victim.

Well Psirens showed the actual hand holding the straw, I thought Who only showed the shadow on the wall? But either way, that’s a grand old convention, too…

[Danny Stephenson]

Another Doctor Dwarf moment for YouTube, perhaps?

[ChrisM]

I’m already missing Who this week, even though it’s not even the time for it yet.

I might take a peek at Eurovision though. It’s sometimes good for a giggle.

[Danny Stephenson]

Wasn’t Bill Bailey meant to be creating songs for Eurovision this year?

[Smeg4Brains]

> Another Doctor Dwarf moment for YouTube, perhaps?

I’ve been looking out for ones that would make good videos and I’ve got a few idea. might try doing another over the long weekend if i get the time.

[Seb Patrick]

Right, so I’m calling anything that’s been in a trailer as fair game, spoiler wise, because it’s been broadcast on TV. If you want to avoid trailer discussion, don’t read on…

… but it amuses me greatly that there are people on Outpost Gallifrey somehow attempting to reason that that WASN’T Davros in tonight’s trailer. Look, people. He is being played by Julian Bleach. It IS him. And I hope to god he can rescue the second half of this series. I’ve got a feeling he just might.

But what was up with the Doctor flying through the vortex TARDISless…? Also, Rose looked pretty cool – I think it’s obvious what was coming at her when she said “Now we’re in trouble”, or whatever it was. Also also, doesn’t look good for Donna, does it?

[Andrew]

> And I hope to god he can rescue the second half of this series.

Every time you say this, I’m going to reply that it’d be like saving a person who’s having a perfectly happy picnic in a park somewhere. :-)

I’m looking forward to Colin Salmon. Because he’s yummy.

[John Hoare]

TRAILER = EXCITEMENT.

As for Eurovision, I enjoyed it more than any episode of Who this series, I’m afraid! In short: Russia didn’t deserve to win in a million years, I’m glad Ukraine was second because it was my favourite song, Wogan was as hilarious as ever (but needs to realise that Spain and Bosnia’s entries were great), and the UK fucking deserved joint last place as we were bloody terrible.

[pfm]

> And I hope to god he can rescue the second half of this series.

Moffat’s episodes will have already done so by the time Davros comes trundling out of the shadows. Have you seen the new clip from Silence in the Library? Straightaway you get the feeling it’s a better quality of episode than what we’ve had so far this season. The effects shots of the library are truly amazing. The Mill have done a stellar job this year. I thought they did well with the wasp, despite the insanity of it all. Very difficult to make something like that look as though it’s really there in the shots.

[John Hoare]

I wasn’t that keen on the wasp – it looked OK in some shots (the very first ones until they did the reverse angle, and… erm, the bit where the lights went out…), but most of the time I just didn’t buy it.

Still, it doesn’t bug me that much, because there’s no other way they could have done the shots. What really bugs me is when Who does shots that they should have done better. I’m going through Buffy at the moment, and every time Oz transforms, I just start thinking what Tooth & Claw should have looked like if they hadn’t gone down the CGI route…

[Andrew]

> I?m going through Buffy at the moment, and every time Oz transforms, I just start thinking what Tooth & Claw should have looked like

Much as I was non-plussed with the CGI wolf from T&C, I can’t get behind the idea that Oz’s “bloke in a furry coat” was better…

[John Hoare]

Oh, I love the werewolf in Buffy. But I think it’s more sold by the actual guy in the suit, who I think moves tremendously, than the actual suit itself. But it comes back to the thing that if there is something *real* there, then my brain generally accepts things more and will forgive any faults.

I certainly don’t hate all Who CGI monsters – there’s been at least one in each series that I’ve loved. The best being the Beast at the end of The Satan Pit, which I think is astonishingly good.

[Dave]

There was quite a bit of variety in Oz’s transformations though. And the less wolflife the more impressive they were. In Phases it’s very definately a wolf, but later on, its more of a hairy Lion-O with big teeth. I don’t mean to make it sound bad because it looks great, but it doesn’t have the classic werewolf feel.

There was a werewolf on Angel as well but I can’t remember what it looked like.

[ChrisM]

>As for Eurovision, I enjoyed it more than any episode of Who this series, I?m afraid

Crikey really? I wouldn’t go near that far.

I just caught a bit of the end this year, when they were collating the results. Trust us to get last place again. (Although why am I not surprised?)

From what I’ve seen of our song it was a bit rubbish though.

The Eurovision votes are unfair though. Countries obviously vote in a biased way rather than voting for whom they actually preferred. (I’m sure the latter comes into it, but when the Nordic countries all vote for each other it’s like, yeah…. rrrright!) Whether or not we would actually get higher though is a whole other case though…

Oh, and I missed the Doctor Who trailer. I imagine it’ll be on the site though, so I’ll have a butchers later. (Hark at me with me cockney cliches. I’m not even cockney.)

[ChrisM]

>There was a werewolf on Angel as well but I can?t remember what it looked like.

I think that one was genuinely more wolf-like.

That one was a biped though rather than the quadrupeds of the Buffy series, but it had the long dog-like muzzle (if I remember correctly).

As for the Oz wolf, I quite liked the first version we see. I thought the more human-like versions looked a bit rubbish though. I guess they wanted to make it more identifiably Oz?

I’ve seen worse though. Namely, in Supernatural. The werewolves that appeared in an episode of that show were atrocious. Pretty much just people with fangs and a bit more hair. I don’t think they even made any effort to change the facial features except for the eye colour. I understand it might have a lower budget than other US shows (and to be fair, effects wise they usually do very well with what they have), but they really could have done better than that.

[Andrew]

> There was a werewolf on Angel as well but I can?t remember what it looked like

My defining memory is of her waking naked in a cell. It looked brilliant.

[Author]

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