Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Did you see Doctor Who? – Spoilers!

Viewing 100 posts - 1 through 100 (of 361 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #2290
    penny
    Participant

    So much better than the Chrismas ep, which lets face it was cheesy humour with eye candy for guys and girls…the part with the sparks behind Tennant bit was lovely, but I did think the episode had turned in to an aftershave advert when they did that.

    Anyway, on to today’s one…So went “What!? What!? What!?” when Rose turned round.
    I’m still not totally in to Tate’s character (she’s a bit annoying). I kind of liked her as a one off type character.

    The fat tissue baby creatures were cute though…awwwww!

    #122177
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Sarah Lancashire was great. Really fantastic. I liked the Adipose themselves – it was generally terrible CGI (the shot of one of them going through the letterbox was particuarly awful), but they were cute enough that they *just* about got away with it. And THAT MOMENT was great. (I didn’t predict it before she turned round, either.)

    But the rest of it was just boring. I preferred New Earth, actually, and I wasn’t a massive fan of that. For that matter, I preferred Fear Her, The Long Game, or any other episode the series has offered so far. And I disliked ‘Voyage of the Damned’ too, so this production run really doesn’t have a great hitrate so far…

    As for Tate… I really didn’t mind her in The Runaway Bride, partly *because* it was a one-off, and I can cope with her in a special one-off. But when I first learnt she was coming back for a whole series, I wasn’t sure at all. Fine for a one-off, but a whole series?

    And then, I thought about it. I thought they’d tone her down. I saw the publicity photos coming out, and really liked them. And I didn’t mind her *that* much in Runaway Bride. So I was pretty much fine with it.

    But she irritated me SO much in this episode – far more than anything else in New Who has so far. The scene between her and the Doctor when they first see each other should have been hilarious – instead, it made me want to strangle her. And knowing we’ve got a whole series of her… gah. I’ve been thinking everyone was over-reacting, and was all ready to sit there smugly and say “she’s fine, get over it”. But I HATED it. And I’m really worried about sitting through the rest of the series with her now, even when the stories pick up.

    Bah. I’m not happy. Hopefully in a couple of weeks, I’ll be happy – but right at the moment, I’m *really* not looking forward to 12 more weeks of her.

    #122178
    Steve Harris
    Participant

    Oddly perhaps, I’m the opposite…

    In a one off I thought ‘NO’ why her of all people, so many people would bend over backwards to take on this part.
    But she won me round…

    Clearly it’s a change of tack having an assistant that isn’t (on the face of it) after romance with the Doctor and I think this stands out and makes her an altogether different companion. I would also say, she can handle the lighter moments better than Rose and Martha..
    Having said that, Wether she stands the test of time in terms of annoyance for me remains to be seen but I think she’s done more than enough to be given the chance.
    So I am looking forward to seeing more and how it develops…

    As for the episode, I really enjoyed it and the ‘Rose’ moment was wonderful and totally unexpected, I cant wait to see where this is leading to..

    Sarah Lancashire has gone up a million fold in my estimation, a great performance and I was also impressed with Bernard Cribbens.

    The Adipose were tremendous and extremely cute and as such detracted from any dodgy CGI which I have to say I didn’t really pick up on (too engrosed)…

    Biggest ‘iffy’ moment for me was Grandad Cribbens seeing the blue box, had it been left at that, I would have been fine, but seeing the Doctor and Donna waving back was a leap of fantasy too far for me…

    All in all, there have been better episodes for me, but the magic of Who continues and this is still miles and miles better than most TV offerings arround…

    #122180
    Tanya Jones
    Participant

    I feel bad for saying it, but this bored me silly, and after keeping an open mind on Tate, she disappointed me. I’m really hoping there’s some better stories to come.

    #122181
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I wasn’t really sure what the amulets were about. I.e. I understand the amulet provides some kind of signal which reacts with the pill somehow in turning the fat into critters, but considering the big machine at the end did that, they just seemed a bit redundant (apart from giving Donna a useful tool to mess with the machine at the end), but that might just have been me losing concentration. (Not through boredom, I just seem to have a bit of a low attention span. Mainly through thinking about what has happened, and then missing what a bit of what’s happening right now.)

    I did enjoy the episode though. I liked the fat monsters, and I thought Catherine Tate was ok. And I think she actually was toned down compared to how she was in that Christmas episode. (Mind you she was in a panic through much of that.) I liked the little Rose appearance too, although I guessed it was her when I saw the back of her head when Donna spoke to her. Thing is, I knew Rose would appear in this series at some point, although I figured it would be much later, so it was still a surprise in that sense.

    #122182
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Once again I found myself enjoying Catherine Tate’s appearance. I hate her sketch show but she seems fairly competent on Who. The episode as a whole, though, was a bit Meh.

    And, as a mark of just how much of a unique little gremlin I am, this is oddly the first time since the show was revived where I felt the music cues were horribly put together. It was just sloppy work. The random, slapdash insertion of the “Doomsday” music when Rose appeared just seemed awful and rushed, and detracted from the moment for me (although it was a superb little surprise all told). I think it would have worked much better had Murray Gold actually composed some music for this scene. It deserved more.

    #122186
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    I dunno…I swung between loving and hating it.

    I liked the Adipose…Tennant was great…

    The story itself felt like a left-over from the Sarah Jane Adventures…

    Tate was about what I expected. I didn’t find her believable for a second. Her acting style seems completely out of synch with everyon else. All I could see was flashes of her sketch show characters… particularly the “You’ll never guess what” woman who thinks banal stuff is hilarious.

    I did like that they’re just going to be mates, although it was overplayed. Overall I could take it or leave it.

    I was one of the few who adored the Voyage of the Damned and after that this was quite a dip. I think “meh”, “buh” and “sneh” are all words that accuratelyt sum up my feelingds. Probably enjoyed it the least of any episode of the new series since Boom Town.

    But hey…it’s still Doctor Who. And I still love it! So yes…I suppose I look like a dog with a caramel toffee.

    #122188
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >And, as a mark of just how much of a unique little gremlin I am, this is oddly the first time since the show was revived where I felt the music cues were horribly put together.

    Agreed. The bits where they were tangling on the side of the building was completely robbed on tension by comedy music.

    I thought Tate was better than she was in Runaway Bride but this hasn’t changed my opinions of her. The “mime” thing, as John says, should have been excellent but she completely over-played it. Tennant is as reliably brilliant as ever which is pretty fortunate when they offer such an awful opening episode.

    Some spacing between names in the end credits would be lovely. How messy did that look?

    And is it intentional to have Bernard Cribbins as a Womble?

    By the way, the thing with the car-keys being put in the bin. That was the same bin that Doctor used to chuck the sonic pen, right?

    #122190
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Oh and I HATE the new theme-tune. It’s suddenly become utterly unmajestic and bland.

    Didn’t notice the bin bit, Pete.

    #122192
    penny
    Participant

    >By the way, the thing with the car-keys being put in the bin. That was the same bin that Doctor used to chuck the sonic pen, right?

    I was thinking that, but then I remembered the bin he put the pen in was a big one on the floor and the bin she put the keys in was a small one on a lamp post.

    #122198
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Zombie Dave sent this message by Codec. His frequency is 140.85. Message begins…
    Oh and I HATE the new theme-tune. It?s suddenly become utterly unmajestic and bland.

    I thought that when I heard it on VOTD, but I have the MP3 on my iPod and it pops up in the shuffle every now and then. Each time it does, it grows on me a little. I still prefer the Series 1-3 theme, though. Overall it’s my favourite Who theme EVAR, very closely followed by Peter Davison’s theme. I actually have a very spiffy MP3 of the Series 1-3 theme re-created using elements from Davison’s theme if anyone wants me to share.

    #122201
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    yes PLEASE!

    #122203
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    > I thought that when I heard it on VOTD, but I have the MP3 on my iPod and it pops up in the shuffle every now and then. Each time it does, it grows on me a little. I still prefer the Series 1-3 theme, though. Overall it?s my favourite Who theme EVAR, very closely followed by Peter Davison?s theme. I actually have a very spiffy MP3 of the Series 1-3 theme re-created using elements from Davison?s theme if anyone wants me to share.

    But…but I LOVED the theme on voyage of the damned. This one sounded different. Is the same arrangement? Am I going mental?

    #122207
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    It’s identical.

    And I’m just going to upload that Fifth/Tenth mix now. Hang on.

    Edit: Here we are.

    #122208
    Andrew
    Participant

    I liked, in spite of what everybody else says: Catherine Tate. The Doomsday music cue being used. The new version of the main theme. Some of the CGI (Close Encounters-y space ship = brilliance)

    I disliked: The A storyline. The lack of teaser. Clumsy ‘Martha’ chatter. Some of the CGI (adipose design > adipose execution).

    I was left looking forward to: The Doctor and Donna bickering. The build to the Rose stuff.

    #122209
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Some of the CGI (Close Encounters-y space ship = brilliance)

    That was very, VERY good. It had me wondering whether it was a model at first, and there’s no higher praise.

    The lack of teaser.

    I don’t think any first episode of new Who has had a teaser, has it? I think it’s RTD’s way of wanting to go straight into the action at the start of a new series. I’d prefer one, though.

    (adipose design > adipose execution).

    Absolutely.

    The worst thing about the story is that there’s something great there waiting to get out. And Sarah Lancashire was FANTASTIC. But the rest of it was so bloody DULL…

    I was left looking forward to: The Doctor and Donna bickering.

    This is the stuff that I’m really dreading. It’s not the bickering I’ve a problem with – fourth series is the IDEAL time to have a companion like that – it’s purely Tate.

    It really upsets me. I’ve been saying for nine fucking months that I thought Tate would be fine, and people were over-reacting… and now it comes to it, I really, really, REALLY hated it.

    And yet a lot of the people who were really dreading her either LIKE her, or at least say she was far better than they expected. Maybe some of it is that for the people expecting to hate her, she wasn’t as bad as they’d feared – but as I expected to LIKE her, I had a bad reaction when she was everything I hoped she wouldn’t be. (That dropped jaw when she first sees the Doctor… AAAARRRGGGH.)

    Hopefully she’ll annoy me less as time goes on. Hopefully, when the story is a lot better, I’ll be able to ignore the bits where she irritates me. Hopefully, when the other companions come back in, she’ll have less screentime. I’m not writing the series off as a dead loss… but still. Wah.

    The build to the Rose stuff.

    YES.

    #122210
    pfm
    Participant

    Seen it twice now (3 times including a commentary viewing, which I recommend) and I’m still not sure. A lot of it felt like a clumsy mess, the running around bits being far less effective than past similar episodes like ‘Smith & Jones’.

    The plot would have been better in Sarah Jane but I think we can live with it being episode 1 of the season. CG was good, I thought. Perhaps they can make use of the Massive effects setup sometime in the future, e.g. with Cybermen. The fact that WETA Digital was involved is perhaps another nod relating to that movie rumour that continues to hover about.

    #122213
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    The Close Encounters ship made me smile at the time…but looking back…what was the point?

    I think the first episodes often seem a bit messy. There’s a lot to set up and the A-story almost seems like an after-thought happening in the background.

    Oooh, I did like Donna commenting on how the Doctor had changed thanks to the input of Martha – sparing the life of the Adipose due to them being innocents – quite in contrast to the previous streak of unforgiving nihilism that had led him to kill the baby Racnoss. That was good that was.

    I guess everyone spotted the missing bees thing. Presume it’s a lead-up to the forthcoming episode featuring…er…. giant bees.

    Wonder if the shadow proclamation is going to be this season’s Bad Wolf or of it was just a throwaway reference…

    Wonder if the sonic pen has any deeper relevance…is there a Master or a Rani about?

    I wonder if they will acknowledge or explain why the sontarans dress so much like the Judoon.

    Ah, so many unanswered questions.

    #122215
    Andrew
    Participant

    > sparing the life of the Adipose due to them being innocents – quite in contrast to the previous streak of unforgiving nihilism

    This. Yes. Absolutely.

    Fact: I would happily take the adipose pills if it would take all my fat away. A two-minute wriggle of discomfort at 1.10am is a small price to pay. This is NOT a good premise for an episode.

    Also – no more fucking spaceships over London. No matter how pretty.

    #122216
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    >Also – no more fucking spaceships over London. No matter how pretty

    Ha ha, yes – absolutely.

    I would also appreciate the adipose pill. I would also sellotape the catflap shut so that in the morning not only would I have lost several pounds, but I would also have a cute little pilsbury dough boy pet thing.

    #122218
    penny
    Participant

    Did you notice that the taxi must of squashed some of the adiposes? Yet, saw none were hurt.

    >I would also appreciate the adipose pill. I would also sellotape the catflap shut so that in the morning not only would I have lost several pounds, but I would also have a cute little pilsbury dough boy pet thing.

    I like that idea.

    #122219
    ChrisM
    Participant

    sparing the life of the Adipose due to them being innocents – quite in contrast to the previous streak of unforgiving nihilism

    This. Yes. Absolutely.

    Much as I got the reference and what Donna was saying, I didn’t entirely buy it as Martha’s influence on the doctor. There is quite a difference between little blubber guys who had were pretty harmless (once they’d come into being) and thousands of flesh eating spider-things. I mean, it was implied that once the arachnoids got out they were going to feast on the human race…

    True, it’s part of the arachnoids nature, and therefore arguably not their fault, any more than it is a foxes fault for helping itself to a chicken, but the danger was there, whilst with the Adipose, once they were created the danger was pretty much over.

    Even without Martha’s influence, it seems to me the Doctor would have made a distinction between the two and acted the same. Showing mercy was never a new thing for the Doctor.

    #122221
    Andrew
    Participant

    > I mean, it was implied that once the arachnoids got out they were going to feast on the human race?

    But you don’t execute for what a creature WILL do. (You don’t kill fox cubs in advance of their potential threat. Or, at least, you shouldn’t.)

    Re-house, re-locate, release into a safe environment. That’s the compassionate thing to do.

    #122226
    pfm
    Participant

    Phil Collinson on the commentary said that because it wasn’t the first episode shot they were able to throw in a few references to later events, e.g. the bees, even though he didn’t mention them directly. They did say the taxi pulling up and driving away was important for some reason. Maybe the driver turns out to be an important character.

    #122225
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >Re-house, re-locate, release into a safe environment. That?s the compassionate thing to do.

    True, and I remember him offering to do that, although the Spider-queen (I forget her name but you’ll know who I mean) refused.

    By that point it seemed too late to do that anyway. (Actually in the real world he would have had plenty of time if they were in the centre of the earth, but it was implied by the sound effects etc, that their coming was imminent.)

    Ok, he is a time-lord and it could be argued that he could have rushed off across the universe and found such a world and returned to before humans were devoured, but that seems to go against the time travel rules for the show.

    #122227
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >Wonder if the shadow proclamation is going to be this season?s Bad Wolf or of it was just a throwaway reference?

    What is the shadow proclamation? I seem to remember it being mentioned before.

    The Taxi had the words ATMOS on the windscreen. Mean anything to anyone? No. Oh, OK.

    On reflection, I thought it was better than the Torchwood finale which, to be frank, stank.

    #122229
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    The shadow proclamation seems to be some intergalactic peace agreement or code of conduct….or something.

    It’s mentioned in Rose when the Nestene consciousness is being a naughty.

    I’m wondering if the Adipose are going to return as big grown-up fierce creatures…perhaps pissed off that the taxi squished some of them. Or perhaps not.

    Hmmm…..ATMOS…..let’s think.

    The taxi was “ATMOS”…. and the Adipose created FEAR. Put them together and you have “ATMOSFEAR”. Atmosfear was a board game released in 1991….they very same year that Bobby Davro moved from ITV to the BBC. During 1991, he enjoyed ratings success with multiple shows such as “The Heat is On” and “Rock With Laughter”.

    So the multiple of Davro? Of course….it’s DAVROS!

    #122231
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Ah, yeah. It’s obvious when you think about it.

    #122232
    Dave
    Participant

    From the people who brought you Bad Wolf, Torchwood & Saxon. This year’s is:

    “That bin there”

    #122233
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    “That bin there” is an anagram of “Bare Tenth Hit”, meaning that the series finale is going to involve a naked Doctor being punched.

    #122234
    penny
    Participant

    >What is the shadow proclamation? I seem to remember it being mentioned before.

    You would have heard it quoted in the Christmas episode called the Christmas Invasion in 2005. This is when the Sycorax are trying to claim Earth. Also, the Doctor mentions it to the Nestene Consciousness in series 2.

    http://www.whoniverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Proclamation

    #122235
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    ?That bin there? is an anagram of ?Bare Tenth Hit?, meaning that the series finale is going to involve a naked Doctor being punched.

    It’s also an anagram of “Teeth Than Rib”, which is a obvious nod to a future plotline involving a part of his anatomy which but be removed. He will choose his teeth.

    #122237
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    > Also, the Doctor mentions it to the Nestene Consciousness in series 2.

    *cough*seriesone*cough*

    #122238
    Dave
    Participant

    The Doctor mentions it to the Isolus in Fear Her as well, I think it might’ve been mentioned in the first Sarah Jane Adventures story with the Slitheen.

    What bin? Where?

    #122240
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    That remix is great, Ben. Gets the goosebumps going in exactly the same way the Series 4 theme doesn’t.

    #122241
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Holy heckfire. Just listened to that mix. It’s chuffing fantastic. Needs to replace the current theme.

    #122242
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >I don?t think any first episode of new Who has had a teaser, has it?

    I think New Earth did – but to check would involve re-watching the episode, and like a handful of other eps (Fear Her, Tooth & Claw, 42, VOTD) I have no intention whatsoever of doing so unless it’s part of a “watch everything in one go” session.

    #122243
    si
    Participant

    Okay – going back to the music – can’t listen to that there remix, cause of these bloody computers, but I’m sure this is a completely new recording – not as orchestral.
    I agree about the music cues – the Doomsday music is beautiful, but felt shoehorned in here. But Rose…that had to be the best kept secret since Who’s return!

    Also – did anyone else notice that when Foster finished her opening address in the lecture theatre, the ‘Industries’ behind her was framed as ‘DUST’? An intentional Little Britain/Marjorie Dawes/Weight-loss reference? Or am I reading too much into it?

    As for ATMOS – I think it might be something to do with the Sontarans, but don’t quote me on that.

    Unless I’m right, obviously.

    #122244
    penny
    Participant

    >*cough*seriesone*cough*

    Ooops!

    I mixed it up with Max for some reason.

    #122247
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Who was also in series one. Do pay attention, 007.

    #122254
    penny
    Participant

    >Who was also in series one. Do pay attention, 007.

    Oh fuck! Series 1 and 2 blend together for me…oh well.

    #122257
    pfm
    Participant

    Ah, the heady days of series 1! Feast yer eyes on this, possibly the greatest scene in all of Who –

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=U1YPsaHFD8w

    #122260
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Ecclestone…bleh.

    #122262
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Gah…this is driving me made. Are these the same or not?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEoQubpFVC0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peuCx_3PYZw

    Either way, the new music is growing on me. You can really hear hints of every theme up to this one – even the McGann one.

    #122263
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Just struck me how horrid the McGann theme was

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTdGg9BIX4k

    #122266
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    I loved the McGann theme!

    #122268
    Andrew
    Participant

    I think you just have to be glad McGann’s movie USED the damn theme at all!

    #122269
    si
    Participant

    I?m sure this is a completely new recording – not as orchestral.

    Oh. Listened to both the Christmas opening theme, and Saturday’s opening theme last night, and they are, indeed, identical. The only difference being that Saturday’s is a couple of seconds shorter with a different ending.

    Personally, I think the best theme is the 1973 ‘Delaware’ theme…

    For anyone interested, there are lots of homemade ‘remixes’ and reimagining of the themes at http://whomix.trilete.net – a lot of them are shite, but there’s some good stuff too.

    #122271
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Ahahaha…the Delaware one. Yeah, that always gives me chills.

    #122272
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    I feel like the last person to cheer at a football match, but that Fifth/Tenth version was amazing!

    That middle 8 is so often overlooked…

    #122273
    pfm
    Participant

    It’s the same but remixed to make it less ‘busy’ (you can’t really tell that from these youtube clips) and the end is cut down. HOWEVER, it seems they are using the Voyage version over the end credits, which I like.

    People are complaining about the theme but it NEEDS to be like this to match the loudness of the incidental music. Murray Gold really is going for ‘let’s see how loud we can make an orchestra in a series!’ The funniest thing was how crazy it was going during the ‘miming’ scene.

    IMO when it gets the big reboot after RTD leaves they should strip it back to something close to the original arrangement, or at least make it sound more ‘weird’ instead of overly bombastic.

    #122274
    Andrew
    Participant

    > That middle 8 is so often overlooked?

    *applauds*

    > Murray Gold really is going for ?let?s see how loud we can make an orchestra in a series!?

    I’m not sure this is completely fair, since – while he’s not short on the histrionics – it’s not his job to mix the sound for the show. He doesn’t set the balance which, for the fourth series on the trot, is indeed FAR too heavy on the incidental music. Someone needs to quit approving the sound mix in a great big suite and watch the damn thing on a regular home TV.

    There’s a difference between hearing the dialogue and remembering it once you see the actors mouths move and deciding it’s clear enough. Guys, you’re drowning out da wordz!

    #122275
    pfm
    Participant

    It would be interesting to know whether they actually do a stereo mix ever, or because they know it’s gonna be 5.1 on the DVD set that’s the only mix they do and then it’s just crammed into 2.0 stereo for broadcast.

    The sound on the DVD sets is enough for me to want to end it all (well, almost)unless I’ve got it on my surround setup. I don’t know what the ‘vanilla’ releases sound like because I’m not insane enough to own them (unlike David Tennant who, on his series 3 video diary, you can see he has them all on his shelf, along with all the classic Who DVDs!!)

    #122277
    Somebody
    Participant

    Ben Paddon / Sun, 2008-04-06 16:59:
    Each time it does, it grows on me a little. I still prefer the Series 1-3 theme, though. Overall it?s my favourite Who theme EVAR, very closely followed by Peter Davison?s theme.

    Umm… Series 1 theme != Series 2-3 theme (and there might have been some more subtle tweaks between 2 & 3).

    The S1 theme was built from samples, and had no middle eight.

    The S2-3 theme(s) was (were) performed by the National Orchestra of Wales. And had the middle eight.

    The difference isn’t so drastic as the S4 theme, but the original Delia Derbyshire theme elements were far stronger in the S1 theme. They kind of got buried in the live-orchestra theme.

    #122279
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > Umm? Series 1 theme != Series 2-3 theme (and there might have been some more subtle tweaks between 2 & 3).

    Depends what you’re referring to. Series 1, 2 and 3 had the exact same opening theme and the big orchestral version done for 2 and 3 credits has that same theme on the front before it kicks off and the orchestra takes over for the middle 8th.

    #122280
    John Hoare
    Participant

    It would be interesting to know whether they actually do a stereo mix ever, or because they know it?s gonna be 5.1 on the DVD set that?s the only mix they do and then it?s just crammed into 2.0 stereo for broadcast.

    As far as I’m aware, from posts made on the Restoration Team forum, they only do a 5.1 mix – and then automatically fold it down to make the stereo broadcast mix. Which might explain some of the problems.

    For anyone interested, there are lots of homemade ?remixes? and reimagining of the themes at http://whomix.trilete.net – a lot of them are shite, but there?s some good stuff too.

    That’s a great site. I love this:

    http://whomix.trilete.net/?wmid=subreadremixreviews&remixid=66

    And the following sounds like something they might actually have done with the theme if the show had carried on into the 90s:

    http://whomix.trilete.net/?wmid=subreadremixreviews&remixid=89

    FWIW, my favourite version of the theme is the original Delia one, which is just a classic in every sense (although I also love the version used for the pilot as well, with the thunderclaps). By Baker’s time, unfortunately, the theme has been fucked about with so much that it lost all its majesty, and just sounds bland.

    I have a very soft spot for the Howell 80s version as well – I love the middle eight, and that version has by far the best rendition. It really soars

    #122281
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >>By the way, the thing with the car-keys being put in the bin. That was the same bin that Doctor used to chuck the sonic pen, right?

    >I was thinking that, but then I remembered the bin he put the pen in was a big one on the floor and the bin she put the keys in was a small one on a lamp post.

    I’m wondering whether Donna’s mum will make a similar mistake and end up with a new pen.

    #122282
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Did Somebody say something?
    Umm? Series 1 theme != Series 2-3 theme (and there might have been some more subtle tweaks between 2 & 3).

    The S1 theme was built from samples, and had no middle eight.

    The S2-3 theme(s) was (were) performed by the National Orchestra of Wales. And had the middle eight.

    The difference isn?t so drastic as the S4 theme, but the original Delia Derbyshire theme elements were far stronger in the S1 theme. They kind of got buried in the live-orchestra theme.

    The Series 2-3 theme is little more than an expanded version of the Series 1 theme, as the only involvement the National Orchestra of Wales had was recording that extended version including the middle eight for the end credits (which was also mixed into the “album version” of the theme included in the Series 1 & 2 soudntrack). There is very little difference between the series 1 and series 2-3 opening titles, and so I consider them to be the same theme.

    Because they are the same theme.

    So there.

    #122287
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Is the “unused” 2005 theme still out there anywhere? I used to have it a while ago – it’s much deeper and more resonant, particularly around the “diggerdydum” bit. It was used on the very first “D’you wanna come with me?” trailer, but for some reason got changed by the time “Rose” came along…

    Also, if anyone can find me the “Ron Grainer arrangement”, I’ll be very happy. I saw it posted on the net AGES ago, but lost it when my old MP3 player died. Basically, because Grainer just composed the tune, but didn’t arrange it (that was Delia D, obv.), the version used in 1963 ended up sounding nothing like his original plan. He finally did his own version for a compilation album of his own songs in the ’70s some time… and it sounds like a cross between a Barry Gray theme and the Grandstand opening titles. Incredibly bizarre.

    #122288

    Whomix is an excellent site, isn’t it? I know, because I’d swear I posted a link to it here before =P . (Altho’ for all I remember, I may have gotten the link from here in the first place.) A list of my favorite mixes there would probably run into a few dozen; I tend to go for the more experimental stuff there, myself.

    #122296
    pfm
    Participant

    > they only do a 5.1 mix – and then automatically fold it down to make the stereo broadcast mix. Which might explain some of the problems.

    It definitely would explain the volume of the music and the effects often eclipsing the dialogue. Thankfully with 5.1 surround you have dialogue front and centre with its own speaker, but when it’s downmixed to stereo you’re getting the sound from the back two speakers mixed in with everything else, so it seriously increases the volume of sfx and music and the dialogue stays at the same level.

    HOWEVER, some of the episodes have been shoddily mixed even in 5.1. Later episodes seem to have found a comprimise. The worst mix ever is during Eccleston’s earth turning speech in Rose. You’re hard put to hear what the frak he’s saying due to the harsh strings drowning everything out!!

    #122298
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Yeah, that sounds about right. Similar comments on the Restoration Team forum, too.

    Which is REALLY stupid – because far more people are going to watch the bloody show in stereo than in 5.1! And RTD is always going on about the mainstream audience, so you think he’d be specifically catering for them, rather than DVD sales…

    #122306
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Animations what have been done by fellows on Youtube. Ten shades of awesome.

    #122307
    penny
    Participant

    Cool animations there!

    #122312
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Indeedy. Not arf bad.

    #122345
    Dave
    Participant
    #122347
    penny
    Participant

    *Chuckles*
    Nope!

    #122349
    Phil
    Participant

    I think Arlene bought one and bit its head off.

    #122370

    >I think Arlene bought one and bit its head off.

    Why ever would I do that?

    (Honestly, for all the scorn I heap on Rose, and on his writing, all I really wish, after I’ve wiped the fan-froth from my lips, is that he’d go work on something else.)

    #122380
    pfm
    Participant

    > that he?d go work on something else

    Like the next Christmas special, featuring the Cybermen in Victorian times.

    #122385
    si
    Participant

    I have a very soft spot for the Howell 80s version as well – I love the middle eight, and that version has by far the best rendition. It really soars?

    Me too – I have a 7″ single of it, with a scary picture of Tom Baker on the sleeve, which I grew up listening to. I listened to it the other night, and it still puts a big smile on my face.

    #122394
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Well, this week’s was better. MUCH better. Tate was actually pretty good.

    Loved the pyroviles….and oooh! Another reference to the shadow proclamation!

    And then there was the “SHE is returning” prophecy (The Rani?)

    and Tate has something “on her back”? Hmmm….

    #122395
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    > (Honestly, for all the scorn I heap on Rose, and on his writing, all I really wish, after I?ve wiped the fan-froth from my lips, is that he?d go work on something else.)

    Agreed! Russell T Davies gets right on my tits these days. Though I did like Rose.

    #122396
    Ridley
    Participant

    That screwdriver is so, so lazy :'(

    #122398
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    That’s true. It’s being massively over-used.

    Also wasn’t keen on the clunky comedy “Hey, the families of Pompeii were just like us!” business.

    But overall, yes…a good episode.

    #122400
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >And then there was the ?SHE is returning? prophecy (The Rani?)

    Er, who did we see last week?

    #122402
    Andrew
    Participant

    Beyond a few exceptional eps (read: Moffat’s stuff) I thought it was about as good as Who gets.

    Great monsters and baddies (varied and interesting ones, too), neat body horror, lovely effects work, funky design (Roman circuit boards!) smart character writing (New Who leaves time only for broad strokes, but these were spot-on within that, I thought), some deft comic touches (water pistol!), a genuinely affecting AND thrilling climax, and splendid performances.

    Plus SUCH good – and comfortingly fannish – writing. Played for laughs (Latin/Celtic), shock impact (nifty psychic stuff) and, most impressively, for drama. That scene describing WHICH events are fixed in time was extraordinary, totally rooted in character yet also plot-hole-plugging exposition. As good ass anything written for the series, that bit.

    A couple of minor stumbles, but…I was genuinely struck by it. Laugh-out-loud stuff, gasp-stuff, and an honestly tearful conclusion. Firing on all cylinders. Which, coming from someone who’d not been keen on ‘hey, lets visit another famous era’ stories, is saying something.

    #122403
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    > Er, who did we see last week?

    Quite a few people but none of them were the Rani.

    #122405
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    No. We saw Rose. Who is returning.

    Did you honestly not get the MASSIVE SIGNPOSTING of that line? And they said this series’ arc was going to be subtle. Meanwhile, in two episodes so far, two alien races have mysteriously “lost” their planets. OMG DO YOU THINK THERE’S A CONNECTION?

    Sorry, but I didn’t like this at all. I’ve outlined on my blog the massive problem I had with the idea of the Doctor just leaving a family to die while he swans off in the TARDIS, but there was lots that just irritated the hell out of me. Philip Cornwell. The fact that they’d made such a big deal out of the TARDIS translating from Latin, and then had a moment where the Doctor made a linguistic pun that didn’t actually work in translation (“sun” and “son” may sound alike, but “sol” and “filius” most certainly do not). The soothsayer women looked like Peter fucking Criss.

    And worst of all… there was absolutely no need whatsoever to go back to Pompeii, of all places, somewhere absolutely RIPE with a potentially brilliant human interest story, and instead write a story all about aliens YET AGAIN.

    Andrew, in all seriousness, what was “tearful” about the conclusion? All I saw was the Doctor being an utter cunt until Tate quite rightly asked him what the fuck he was doing. And that bit at the with the “household Gods”… OH YEAH I DIDN’T SEE THAT COMING.

    #122404
    Andrew
    Participant

    > > Er, who did we see last week?

    > Don?t think it was the Rani? [or, after the edit] Quite a few people but none of them were the Rani.

    So the ‘she’ being referred to was most likely Rose, dontcha think?

    #122406
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    BBC Press Release about episode 4…

    “Martha Jones summons the Doctor back to modern-day Earth, but an old enemy lies in wait, as Russell T Davies’s Bafta Award-winning time-travelling drama continues. With the mysterious ATMOS devices spreading across the world, Donna discovers that even her own family is not safe from the alien threat ? but is it too late to save them?”

    Pete was correct about ATMOS being significant. He wins the biscuits!

    #122407
    Andrew
    Participant

    > Andrew, in all seriousness, what was ?tearful? about the conclusion?

    Beyond ‘the couple I shed’, y’,mean? What can I say? The logic of having to kill 20,000 to save far more seems like a genuinely tough dilemma for anyone but the hardest-hearted pragmatist to me. Having to CAUSE the destruction – that’s proper structure with an emotional core, is that.

    #122408
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    *slaps head* Rose, yes. What a tool I be.

    #122409
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    “The fact that they?d made such a big deal out of the TARDIS translating from Latin, and then had a moment where the Doctor made a linguistic pun that didn?t actually work in translation (?sun? and ?son? may sound alike, but ?sol? and ?filius? most certainly do not).”

    Bloody hell.

    #122410
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    What I did like about that bit was that it gave a genuine, non-arbitrary reason for why the eruption had to happen – it wasn’t that it was some randomly-chosen “fixed” point, it was that the Doctor made it happen.

    However, making the decision to kill a load of people in order to save more… well, that seems pretty damned well at odds with a certain moment in The Parting of the Ways… “Coward or killer?” “Coward… every time”.

    Killing a massive number of people as the only way to save the rest? When did the Doctor turn into Adrian Veidt?

    #122411
    Andrew
    Participant

    > Killing a massive number of people as the only way to save the rest? When did the Doctor turn into Adrian Veidt?

    I don’t think that’s fair, unsurprisingly. Veidt was coming from a far more abstract position. You can argue his intellect made it seem not that way, I guess, but while we could never comprehend Veidt’s choice as binary (however much he insists), the Doctor’s clearly was.

    It’s one thing to plan the destruction. It’s another to have to make the decision in seconds.

    As to the rest…

    > Did you honestly not get the MASSIVE SIGNPOSTING of that line? And they said this series? arc was going to be subtle.

    Seems a bit harsh. We did see Rose already – so it’s not a signpost for us, is it? I guess it says she’s coming back again, which we weren’t specifically told, but I doubt anyone thought she was hired for that one shot in isolation. So it reinforces what we saw last week. Nothing especially wrong about that, is there?

    > Meanwhile, in two episodes so far, two alien races have mysteriously ?lost? their planets. OMG DO YOU THINK THERE?S A CONNECTION?

    To be fair, I hadn’t joined that up. But then, don’t the aliens in Who generally arrive on Earth due to escape or evacuation? (‘Invasion’ being the other one, I guess.)

    > Philip Cornwell.

    No, fair enough on that one.

    > The fact that they?d made such a big deal out of the TARDIS translating from Latin, and then had a moment where the Doctor made a linguistic pun that didn?t actually work in translation (?sun? and ?son? may sound alike, but ?sol? and ?filius? most certainly do not).

    Yes, they should have made it true to the Latin so it didn’t work for the audience instead. Clearly. :-)

    When the translation idea’s a mess anyway – and an inherited mess at that – this doesn’t trouble me. (Why do we see and hear English in scenes the Doctor is in? And If you spoke to a Frenchman In French while being overheard by an Englishman, what then? And whither accents? Etc. etc.)

    > And worst of all? there was absolutely no need whatsoever to go back to Pompeii, of all places, somewhere absolutely RIPE with a potentially brilliant human interest story, and instead write a story all about aliens YET AGAIN.

    They should have written an alien-free episode?

    Bah – we’re never gonna agree on this one, huh?

    #122412
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    I’m clearly in the minority – scouting around, it seems this was a well-liked episode. And there were definitely good things about it – Peter Capaldi was every bit as good as I’d expected (although this was counterbalanced by the hamminess of Phil Davis). As with episode one, Donna had moments that were awful, and moments that were really rather good (I don’t know why, but I thought in terms of the tone, the “I bloody love you!” line worked perfectly).

    But I’ve wanted a Roman Empire-set story since day one. I’d been looking forward to this one massively. And it just felt like something of a missed opportunity – the plot felt messy (too many different and disparate strands of antagonist – from Davis, to the rubbish Sisters of Wossname, to the big monsters underground), the attempt at justifying the “I can’t interfere HERE even though I interfere EVERYWHERE ELSE” was half-hearted and lazy, and I was really appalled by what I perceived to be an out-of-character set of actions on the Doctor’s part at the end.

    I don?t think that?s fair, unsurprisingly. Veidt was coming from a far more abstract position. You can argue his intellect made it seem not that way, I guess, but while we could never comprehend Veidt?s choice as binary (however much he insists), the Doctor?s clearly was.

    It?s one thing to plan the destruction. It?s another to have to make the decision in seconds.

    Yeah, that was a cheap shot. But I do think we’ve had precedent for this sort of decision. He had to make a snap decision of that type during the Time War. He’s been living with the guilt ever since. In TPOTW, he had a similar decision to make, and he turned it down. Why the change now?

    I just felt… I dunno… at every turn, the character morals felt wrong to me.

    #122413
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    > As with episode one, Donna had moments that were awful, and moments that were really rather good (I don?t know why, but I thought in terms of the tone, the ?I bloody love you!? line worked perfectly).

    Agreed. I just can’t make my mind up. I guess I don’t see her as a rounded character…I still see her as Tate with flashes of sketch show characters peeking through.

    #122414
    Andrew
    Participant

    > But I?ve wanted a Roman Empire-set story since day one. I?d been looking forward to this one massively.

    Ah. Nowwwwwwwwwwwww I get it. :-)

    Fair enough. I’m the same about every SF show’s use of Jack the Ripper.

    > Why the change now?

    Different Doctor? One with a fighting hand?

    Didn’t feel out of character to me. I guess because it’s a question built on structure. It’s one a show gets to answer in words all the time – check me out with my stance on morality – but when it has to be answered in actions, well, we end up not always being who we think we are.

    (I also have a huge bugbear about the reverence for Genesis of the Daleks because it asks the question, then cheats the Doctor out of having to make the decision.)

    I thought the beats of the story were terrific, BTW. Usually I find New Who suffers from a lack of second acts – straight from ‘ooh, here we are, and this is the situation’ to ‘quick, blow it up!’ It’s partly a product of the duration, as is the quickie characterisation. But I loved how each part evolved and joined, how the characters were sketched and utilised, and how it managed to combine a lot of ideas coherently. (No ‘hey, we have a monster, won’t that do?’ a la Lazarus; we got loads of great imagery, all tied to the story.)

    Plus, some nifty social commentary. Not entirely subtle, but the points on gender and religion were neatly done. Chuffed to see the 9/11 subtext – religious mania, major destructive event – underplayed. too.

    #122415
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Not read all this thread yet – I will do – but after I was *so* upset about last week’s episode, I just have to report that I just watched it on catch-up, and I fucking loved it. And I was going into the episode *really* worried!

    Not perfect – Tate’s “SPACEMAN!!!!!!!!” line had me willing her to fuck off – but hugely enjoyable. (And great to see some decent CGI again – what with this and The Satan Pit, New Who really does fire creatures well, doesn’t it?) And that shot of the family cowering in the ash was… yes, moving. And I’m a hard-hearted bastard, really.

    And by the end, despite my massive slagging last week, I didn’t mind Tate – she’s generally fine when she’s not doing her patented schtick. (And her reaction to the Doctor’s foam line is the FIRST TIME EVER she’s made me laugh.)

    Not as good as The Aztecs, mind…

    #122416
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I found it a bit simplistic that just pushing down a couple of panels was enough to turn Venusvius’s power into itself and cause the eruption… That being said, I understand there’s only a limited amount of space in the episode and quite a bit of area to cover, and in the end it was about presenting the moral conundrum… which was a very interesting twist to the Pompeii story.

    Great monsters (if a bit easy to kill… I understand the shock factor of cold water on hot rock is what did it, but it would require a bit more than a bucket for that amount of body mass) and I liked the merger of the aliens with the various human villain threads.

    Overall a good episode, and yes Tate was great, and I am a poet. (Well not really but anyway..)

    #122417
    Ridley
    Participant

    I?ve outlined on my blog the massive problem I had with the idea of the Doctor just leaving a family to die while he swans off in the TARDIS

    James Moran: Seb, I didn’t get the opportunity to tell you before, but earlier today I discovered that the Doctor is suffering from a stress-related nervous disorder.

    #122418
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Aaaaaand Ridley wins.

    #122419
    Andrew
    Participant

    > As good ass anything written for the series, that bit.

    I meant ‘as’.

    > Why do we see and hear English in scenes the Doctor is in?

    I meant ‘isn’t in’.

    I also meant to bitch about how editing my posts will ruin the flow of this robust discussion about how wrong Seb is – :-) – but I’ll leave that one for now…

    #122422
    pfm
    Participant

    > Not as good as The Aztecs, mind?

    Lolling myself to sleep… :)

    Flippin’ ‘eck, this is one of the craziest episodes they’ve done so far. Yet again, for what seems like the 20th time in new Who, there was such ambition and hugeness and not enough time to do it justice. They definitely should have gone for THIS as the 2-parter instead of the Sontaran Stratagem. Maybe they didn’t have the balls to do it considering how flat the New York 2-parter fell (IMO) last year.

    Because there wasn’t enough time they didn’t have chance to make us give much of a crap about either the family (anyone do Latin at school? Caecilius and his family are what you learn about, or at least you did 10 years ago when I was doing it) OR the Pyroviles – a groanworthy name, if there was one.

    Did anyone notice Tennant talking even quicker than normal? Maybe that’s because the exposition, or what you could hear of it, was pretty darn hazy and bullshitty, though all this was saved by the EXCELLENT Rome set standing in for Pompeii and effects work that we really aren’t worthy of (how do they have any money for the rest of the series?)

    Catherine Tate was really good at the emotional stuff. If it weren’t for her series no-one would be complaining at all. It’s just that all some people can see are her characters! Well I’ll tell you something, all I could see were her BREASTS during some moments! Huge succulent orbs, surely an episode should be based around them at some point. Hang on, these are the missing planets!!

    #122423
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Before Donna convinced him to go back, both Donna and the Doctor drew parallels to the destruction of Gallifrey, and the Doctor mentioned that he’s just as unable to go back to Pompeii to save anyone as he is to travel back to the Time War and stop the destruction of his own planet. Is this perhaps laying the seed – in the Doctor’s mind, if not the story as a whole – of the Doctor going back to the Time War? Could this be seed-planting for the finale, or perhaps that “fanwanky” 2009 special Russell T Davies has mentioned previously?

    #122426
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I thought it was a 4 star belter. Cornwell was not welcome, it took a while to get going and Tate was her usual self, but it worked really well and the last ten minutes were great. The coda was pretty pointless and obvious though.

    The thing about “flux vs fixed” was interesting. Didn’t make much sense, but interesting nonetheless.

    #122429
    Ridley
    Participant

    Can’t there just be more like Girl in the Fireplace, Blink and Human Nature?

    #122435
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Well, that’s called “getting Moffat and Cornell to write everything”. Which I think most people would rather like.

    Although, I’d like to reassert my opinion that if either of those writers, brilliant as they are, had to write more than two episodes per series, we WOULD see poor episodes from them. Similarly, if RTD had only had to write his very best eps, we’d hail him as much as we do Moffat.

    #122437
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    … *almost* as much as we do Moffat.

Viewing 100 posts - 1 through 100 (of 361 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.