Did you see Doctor Who? – Spoilers!

[penny]

So much better than the Chrismas ep, which lets face it was cheesy humour with eye candy for guys and girls…the part with the sparks behind Tennant bit was lovely, but I did think the episode had turned in to an aftershave advert when they did that.

Anyway, on to today’s one…So went “What!? What!? What!?” when Rose turned round.
I’m still not totally in to Tate’s character (she’s a bit annoying). I kind of liked her as a one off type character.

The fat tissue baby creatures were cute though…awwwww!

Topic

[John Hoare]

Sarah Lancashire was great. Really fantastic. I liked the Adipose themselves – it was generally terrible CGI (the shot of one of them going through the letterbox was particuarly awful), but they were cute enough that they *just* about got away with it. And THAT MOMENT was great. (I didn’t predict it before she turned round, either.)

But the rest of it was just boring. I preferred New Earth, actually, and I wasn’t a massive fan of that. For that matter, I preferred Fear Her, The Long Game, or any other episode the series has offered so far. And I disliked ‘Voyage of the Damned’ too, so this production run really doesn’t have a great hitrate so far…

As for Tate… I really didn’t mind her in The Runaway Bride, partly *because* it was a one-off, and I can cope with her in a special one-off. But when I first learnt she was coming back for a whole series, I wasn’t sure at all. Fine for a one-off, but a whole series?

And then, I thought about it. I thought they’d tone her down. I saw the publicity photos coming out, and really liked them. And I didn’t mind her *that* much in Runaway Bride. So I was pretty much fine with it.

But she irritated me SO much in this episode – far more than anything else in New Who has so far. The scene between her and the Doctor when they first see each other should have been hilarious – instead, it made me want to strangle her. And knowing we’ve got a whole series of her… gah. I’ve been thinking everyone was over-reacting, and was all ready to sit there smugly and say “she’s fine, get over it”. But I HATED it. And I’m really worried about sitting through the rest of the series with her now, even when the stories pick up.

Bah. I’m not happy. Hopefully in a couple of weeks, I’ll be happy – but right at the moment, I’m *really* not looking forward to 12 more weeks of her.

[Steve Harris]

Oddly perhaps, I’m the opposite…

In a one off I thought ‘NO’ why her of all people, so many people would bend over backwards to take on this part.
But she won me round…

Clearly it’s a change of tack having an assistant that isn’t (on the face of it) after romance with the Doctor and I think this stands out and makes her an altogether different companion. I would also say, she can handle the lighter moments better than Rose and Martha..
Having said that, Wether she stands the test of time in terms of annoyance for me remains to be seen but I think she’s done more than enough to be given the chance.
So I am looking forward to seeing more and how it develops…

As for the episode, I really enjoyed it and the ‘Rose’ moment was wonderful and totally unexpected, I cant wait to see where this is leading to..

Sarah Lancashire has gone up a million fold in my estimation, a great performance and I was also impressed with Bernard Cribbens.

The Adipose were tremendous and extremely cute and as such detracted from any dodgy CGI which I have to say I didn’t really pick up on (too engrosed)…

Biggest ‘iffy’ moment for me was Grandad Cribbens seeing the blue box, had it been left at that, I would have been fine, but seeing the Doctor and Donna waving back was a leap of fantasy too far for me…

All in all, there have been better episodes for me, but the magic of Who continues and this is still miles and miles better than most TV offerings arround…

[Tanya Jones]

I feel bad for saying it, but this bored me silly, and after keeping an open mind on Tate, she disappointed me. I’m really hoping there’s some better stories to come.

[ChrisM]

I wasn’t really sure what the amulets were about. I.e. I understand the amulet provides some kind of signal which reacts with the pill somehow in turning the fat into critters, but considering the big machine at the end did that, they just seemed a bit redundant (apart from giving Donna a useful tool to mess with the machine at the end), but that might just have been me losing concentration. (Not through boredom, I just seem to have a bit of a low attention span. Mainly through thinking about what has happened, and then missing what a bit of what’s happening right now.)

I did enjoy the episode though. I liked the fat monsters, and I thought Catherine Tate was ok. And I think she actually was toned down compared to how she was in that Christmas episode. (Mind you she was in a panic through much of that.) I liked the little Rose appearance too, although I guessed it was her when I saw the back of her head when Donna spoke to her. Thing is, I knew Rose would appear in this series at some point, although I figured it would be much later, so it was still a surprise in that sense.

[Ben Paddon]

Once again I found myself enjoying Catherine Tate’s appearance. I hate her sketch show but she seems fairly competent on Who. The episode as a whole, though, was a bit Meh.

And, as a mark of just how much of a unique little gremlin I am, this is oddly the first time since the show was revived where I felt the music cues were horribly put together. It was just sloppy work. The random, slapdash insertion of the “Doomsday” music when Rose appeared just seemed awful and rushed, and detracted from the moment for me (although it was a superb little surprise all told). I think it would have worked much better had Murray Gold actually composed some music for this scene. It deserved more.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

I dunno…I swung between loving and hating it.

I liked the Adipose…Tennant was great…

The story itself felt like a left-over from the Sarah Jane Adventures…

Tate was about what I expected. I didn’t find her believable for a second. Her acting style seems completely out of synch with everyon else. All I could see was flashes of her sketch show characters… particularly the “You’ll never guess what” woman who thinks banal stuff is hilarious.

I did like that they’re just going to be mates, although it was overplayed. Overall I could take it or leave it.

I was one of the few who adored the Voyage of the Damned and after that this was quite a dip. I think “meh”, “buh” and “sneh” are all words that accuratelyt sum up my feelingds. Probably enjoyed it the least of any episode of the new series since Boom Town.

But hey…it’s still Doctor Who. And I still love it! So yes…I suppose I look like a dog with a caramel toffee.

[Pete Part Three]

>And, as a mark of just how much of a unique little gremlin I am, this is oddly the first time since the show was revived where I felt the music cues were horribly put together.

Agreed. The bits where they were tangling on the side of the building was completely robbed on tension by comedy music.

I thought Tate was better than she was in Runaway Bride but this hasn’t changed my opinions of her. The “mime” thing, as John says, should have been excellent but she completely over-played it. Tennant is as reliably brilliant as ever which is pretty fortunate when they offer such an awful opening episode.

Some spacing between names in the end credits would be lovely. How messy did that look?

And is it intentional to have Bernard Cribbins as a Womble?

By the way, the thing with the car-keys being put in the bin. That was the same bin that Doctor used to chuck the sonic pen, right?

[Zombie Jim Undead]

Oh and I HATE the new theme-tune. It’s suddenly become utterly unmajestic and bland.

Didn’t notice the bin bit, Pete.

[penny]

>By the way, the thing with the car-keys being put in the bin. That was the same bin that Doctor used to chuck the sonic pen, right?

I was thinking that, but then I remembered the bin he put the pen in was a big one on the floor and the bin she put the keys in was a small one on a lamp post.

[Ben Paddon]

Zombie Dave sent this message by Codec. His frequency is 140.85. Message begins…
Oh and I HATE the new theme-tune. It?s suddenly become utterly unmajestic and bland.

I thought that when I heard it on VOTD, but I have the MP3 on my iPod and it pops up in the shuffle every now and then. Each time it does, it grows on me a little. I still prefer the Series 1-3 theme, though. Overall it’s my favourite Who theme EVAR, very closely followed by Peter Davison’s theme. I actually have a very spiffy MP3 of the Series 1-3 theme re-created using elements from Davison’s theme if anyone wants me to share.

[Danny Stephenson]

yes PLEASE!

[Zombie Jim Undead]

> I thought that when I heard it on VOTD, but I have the MP3 on my iPod and it pops up in the shuffle every now and then. Each time it does, it grows on me a little. I still prefer the Series 1-3 theme, though. Overall it?s my favourite Who theme EVAR, very closely followed by Peter Davison?s theme. I actually have a very spiffy MP3 of the Series 1-3 theme re-created using elements from Davison?s theme if anyone wants me to share.

But…but I LOVED the theme on voyage of the damned. This one sounded different. Is the same arrangement? Am I going mental?

[Ben Paddon]

It’s identical.

And I’m just going to upload that Fifth/Tenth mix now. Hang on.

Edit: Here we are.

[Andrew]

I liked, in spite of what everybody else says: Catherine Tate. The Doomsday music cue being used. The new version of the main theme. Some of the CGI (Close Encounters-y space ship = brilliance)

I disliked: The A storyline. The lack of teaser. Clumsy ‘Martha’ chatter. Some of the CGI (adipose design > adipose execution).

I was left looking forward to: The Doctor and Donna bickering. The build to the Rose stuff.

[John Hoare]

Some of the CGI (Close Encounters-y space ship = brilliance)

That was very, VERY good. It had me wondering whether it was a model at first, and there’s no higher praise.

The lack of teaser.

I don’t think any first episode of new Who has had a teaser, has it? I think it’s RTD’s way of wanting to go straight into the action at the start of a new series. I’d prefer one, though.

(adipose design > adipose execution).

Absolutely.

The worst thing about the story is that there’s something great there waiting to get out. And Sarah Lancashire was FANTASTIC. But the rest of it was so bloody DULL…

I was left looking forward to: The Doctor and Donna bickering.

This is the stuff that I’m really dreading. It’s not the bickering I’ve a problem with – fourth series is the IDEAL time to have a companion like that – it’s purely Tate.

It really upsets me. I’ve been saying for nine fucking months that I thought Tate would be fine, and people were over-reacting… and now it comes to it, I really, really, REALLY hated it.

And yet a lot of the people who were really dreading her either LIKE her, or at least say she was far better than they expected. Maybe some of it is that for the people expecting to hate her, she wasn’t as bad as they’d feared – but as I expected to LIKE her, I had a bad reaction when she was everything I hoped she wouldn’t be. (That dropped jaw when she first sees the Doctor… AAAARRRGGGH.)

Hopefully she’ll annoy me less as time goes on. Hopefully, when the story is a lot better, I’ll be able to ignore the bits where she irritates me. Hopefully, when the other companions come back in, she’ll have less screentime. I’m not writing the series off as a dead loss… but still. Wah.

The build to the Rose stuff.

YES.

[pfm]

Seen it twice now (3 times including a commentary viewing, which I recommend) and I’m still not sure. A lot of it felt like a clumsy mess, the running around bits being far less effective than past similar episodes like ‘Smith & Jones’.

The plot would have been better in Sarah Jane but I think we can live with it being episode 1 of the season. CG was good, I thought. Perhaps they can make use of the Massive effects setup sometime in the future, e.g. with Cybermen. The fact that WETA Digital was involved is perhaps another nod relating to that movie rumour that continues to hover about.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

The Close Encounters ship made me smile at the time…but looking back…what was the point?

I think the first episodes often seem a bit messy. There’s a lot to set up and the A-story almost seems like an after-thought happening in the background.

Oooh, I did like Donna commenting on how the Doctor had changed thanks to the input of Martha – sparing the life of the Adipose due to them being innocents – quite in contrast to the previous streak of unforgiving nihilism that had led him to kill the baby Racnoss. That was good that was.

I guess everyone spotted the missing bees thing. Presume it’s a lead-up to the forthcoming episode featuring…er…. giant bees.

Wonder if the shadow proclamation is going to be this season’s Bad Wolf or of it was just a throwaway reference…

Wonder if the sonic pen has any deeper relevance…is there a Master or a Rani about?

I wonder if they will acknowledge or explain why the sontarans dress so much like the Judoon.

Ah, so many unanswered questions.

[Andrew]

> sparing the life of the Adipose due to them being innocents – quite in contrast to the previous streak of unforgiving nihilism

This. Yes. Absolutely.

Fact: I would happily take the adipose pills if it would take all my fat away. A two-minute wriggle of discomfort at 1.10am is a small price to pay. This is NOT a good premise for an episode.

Also – no more fucking spaceships over London. No matter how pretty.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

>Also – no more fucking spaceships over London. No matter how pretty

Ha ha, yes – absolutely.

I would also appreciate the adipose pill. I would also sellotape the catflap shut so that in the morning not only would I have lost several pounds, but I would also have a cute little pilsbury dough boy pet thing.

[penny]

Did you notice that the taxi must of squashed some of the adiposes? Yet, saw none were hurt.

>I would also appreciate the adipose pill. I would also sellotape the catflap shut so that in the morning not only would I have lost several pounds, but I would also have a cute little pilsbury dough boy pet thing.

I like that idea.

[ChrisM]

sparing the life of the Adipose due to them being innocents – quite in contrast to the previous streak of unforgiving nihilism

This. Yes. Absolutely.

Much as I got the reference and what Donna was saying, I didn’t entirely buy it as Martha’s influence on the doctor. There is quite a difference between little blubber guys who had were pretty harmless (once they’d come into being) and thousands of flesh eating spider-things. I mean, it was implied that once the arachnoids got out they were going to feast on the human race…

True, it’s part of the arachnoids nature, and therefore arguably not their fault, any more than it is a foxes fault for helping itself to a chicken, but the danger was there, whilst with the Adipose, once they were created the danger was pretty much over.

Even without Martha’s influence, it seems to me the Doctor would have made a distinction between the two and acted the same. Showing mercy was never a new thing for the Doctor.

[Andrew]

> I mean, it was implied that once the arachnoids got out they were going to feast on the human race?

But you don’t execute for what a creature WILL do. (You don’t kill fox cubs in advance of their potential threat. Or, at least, you shouldn’t.)

Re-house, re-locate, release into a safe environment. That’s the compassionate thing to do.

[pfm]

Phil Collinson on the commentary said that because it wasn’t the first episode shot they were able to throw in a few references to later events, e.g. the bees, even though he didn’t mention them directly. They did say the taxi pulling up and driving away was important for some reason. Maybe the driver turns out to be an important character.

[ChrisM]

>Re-house, re-locate, release into a safe environment. That?s the compassionate thing to do.

True, and I remember him offering to do that, although the Spider-queen (I forget her name but you’ll know who I mean) refused.

By that point it seemed too late to do that anyway. (Actually in the real world he would have had plenty of time if they were in the centre of the earth, but it was implied by the sound effects etc, that their coming was imminent.)

Ok, he is a time-lord and it could be argued that he could have rushed off across the universe and found such a world and returned to before humans were devoured, but that seems to go against the time travel rules for the show.

[Pete Part Three]

>Wonder if the shadow proclamation is going to be this season?s Bad Wolf or of it was just a throwaway reference?

What is the shadow proclamation? I seem to remember it being mentioned before.

The Taxi had the words ATMOS on the windscreen. Mean anything to anyone? No. Oh, OK.

On reflection, I thought it was better than the Torchwood finale which, to be frank, stank.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

The shadow proclamation seems to be some intergalactic peace agreement or code of conduct….or something.

It’s mentioned in Rose when the Nestene consciousness is being a naughty.

I’m wondering if the Adipose are going to return as big grown-up fierce creatures…perhaps pissed off that the taxi squished some of them. Or perhaps not.

Hmmm…..ATMOS…..let’s think.

The taxi was “ATMOS”…. and the Adipose created FEAR. Put them together and you have “ATMOSFEAR”. Atmosfear was a board game released in 1991….they very same year that Bobby Davro moved from ITV to the BBC. During 1991, he enjoyed ratings success with multiple shows such as “The Heat is On” and “Rock With Laughter”.

So the multiple of Davro? Of course….it’s DAVROS!

[Pete Part Three]

Ah, yeah. It’s obvious when you think about it.

[Dave]

From the people who brought you Bad Wolf, Torchwood & Saxon. This year’s is:

“That bin there”

[Ian Symes]

“That bin there” is an anagram of “Bare Tenth Hit”, meaning that the series finale is going to involve a naked Doctor being punched.

[penny]

>What is the shadow proclamation? I seem to remember it being mentioned before.

You would have heard it quoted in the Christmas episode called the Christmas Invasion in 2005. This is when the Sycorax are trying to claim Earth. Also, the Doctor mentions it to the Nestene Consciousness in series 2.

http://www.whoniverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Proclamation

[Danny Stephenson]

?That bin there? is an anagram of ?Bare Tenth Hit?, meaning that the series finale is going to involve a naked Doctor being punched.

It’s also an anagram of “Teeth Than Rib”, which is a obvious nod to a future plotline involving a part of his anatomy which but be removed. He will choose his teeth.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

> Also, the Doctor mentions it to the Nestene Consciousness in series 2.

*cough*seriesone*cough*

[Dave]

The Doctor mentions it to the Isolus in Fear Her as well, I think it might’ve been mentioned in the first Sarah Jane Adventures story with the Slitheen.

What bin? Where?

[Ian Symes]

That remix is great, Ben. Gets the goosebumps going in exactly the same way the Series 4 theme doesn’t.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

Holy heckfire. Just listened to that mix. It’s chuffing fantastic. Needs to replace the current theme.

[Seb Patrick]

>I don?t think any first episode of new Who has had a teaser, has it?

I think New Earth did – but to check would involve re-watching the episode, and like a handful of other eps (Fear Her, Tooth & Claw, 42, VOTD) I have no intention whatsoever of doing so unless it’s part of a “watch everything in one go” session.

[si]

Okay – going back to the music – can’t listen to that there remix, cause of these bloody computers, but I’m sure this is a completely new recording – not as orchestral.
I agree about the music cues – the Doomsday music is beautiful, but felt shoehorned in here. But Rose…that had to be the best kept secret since Who’s return!

Also – did anyone else notice that when Foster finished her opening address in the lecture theatre, the ‘Industries’ behind her was framed as ‘DUST’? An intentional Little Britain/Marjorie Dawes/Weight-loss reference? Or am I reading too much into it?

As for ATMOS – I think it might be something to do with the Sontarans, but don’t quote me on that.

Unless I’m right, obviously.

[penny]

>*cough*seriesone*cough*

Ooops!

I mixed it up with Max for some reason.

[Ben Paddon]

Who was also in series one. Do pay attention, 007.

[penny]

>Who was also in series one. Do pay attention, 007.

Oh fuck! Series 1 and 2 blend together for me…oh well.

[pfm]

Ah, the heady days of series 1! Feast yer eyes on this, possibly the greatest scene in all of Who –

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=U1YPsaHFD8w

[Pete Part Three]

Ecclestone…bleh.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

Gah…this is driving me made. Are these the same or not?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEoQubpFVC0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peuCx_3PYZw

Either way, the new music is growing on me. You can really hear hints of every theme up to this one – even the McGann one.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

Just struck me how horrid the McGann theme was

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTdGg9BIX4k

[Seb Patrick]

I loved the McGann theme!

[Andrew]

I think you just have to be glad McGann’s movie USED the damn theme at all!

[si]

I?m sure this is a completely new recording – not as orchestral.

Oh. Listened to both the Christmas opening theme, and Saturday’s opening theme last night, and they are, indeed, identical. The only difference being that Saturday’s is a couple of seconds shorter with a different ending.

Personally, I think the best theme is the 1973 ‘Delaware’ theme…

For anyone interested, there are lots of homemade ‘remixes’ and reimagining of the themes at http://whomix.trilete.net – a lot of them are shite, but there’s some good stuff too.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

Ahahaha…the Delaware one. Yeah, that always gives me chills.

[Danny Stephenson]

I feel like the last person to cheer at a football match, but that Fifth/Tenth version was amazing!

That middle 8 is so often overlooked…

[pfm]

It’s the same but remixed to make it less ‘busy’ (you can’t really tell that from these youtube clips) and the end is cut down. HOWEVER, it seems they are using the Voyage version over the end credits, which I like.

People are complaining about the theme but it NEEDS to be like this to match the loudness of the incidental music. Murray Gold really is going for ‘let’s see how loud we can make an orchestra in a series!’ The funniest thing was how crazy it was going during the ‘miming’ scene.

IMO when it gets the big reboot after RTD leaves they should strip it back to something close to the original arrangement, or at least make it sound more ‘weird’ instead of overly bombastic.

[Author]

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