Did you see Doctor Who? – Spoilers!

[penny]

So much better than the Chrismas ep, which lets face it was cheesy humour with eye candy for guys and girls…the part with the sparks behind Tennant bit was lovely, but I did think the episode had turned in to an aftershave advert when they did that.

Anyway, on to today’s one…So went “What!? What!? What!?” when Rose turned round.
I’m still not totally in to Tate’s character (she’s a bit annoying). I kind of liked her as a one off type character.

The fat tissue baby creatures were cute though…awwwww!

Topic

[Danny Stephenson]

HAPPY 250th POST EVERYBODY!!!

*Blows Party blower thing*

Plays “Fiesta” by the Pogues and other frivolities!

[Pete Part Three]

>but WAS in the eco stuff.

I guess this makes more sense witin the context of the story. She’s probably been terraformed, as it were. Pity she didn’t stick around for an explanation.

[Dave]

>Pity she didn?t stick around for an explanation.

Actually maybe it’s better she didn’t, because she’s bound to turn up again and not explaining herself now could avoid some really awful expositionary dialogue later on.

[John Hoare]

The confusion between whether she regenerated or was brought back to life by the terraforming (and I agree that it must be the latter, although I also thought it was the former when watching it) is APPALLING. It’s seriously shit storytelling. I don’t know how it got broadcast like that. Stupidly, needlessly confusing.

I enjoyed the episode once it got into it (hell, I *really* liked the ending with her blasting off, and the design for the Hath was great), and the big reveal worked for me (I can excuse the whole thing with the older soldier – he’s either one of the originals, or he was created as a helpful father figure for the other soldiers!). But I still can’t shake the idea that this series is somewhat underachieving so far.

But I agree with Andrew – much as I love Freema, Georgia acted her off the screen. I’d be more than happy for her to come back as a regular companion.

[Ridley]

Brought back by the terraforming? How does that work?

Harkness: “#I love a lady with a happy atmosphere”

[Andrew]

> Brought back by the terraforming? How does that work?

Blah blah…life giving chemical concoction…blah blah…

[ChrisM]

Could have been worse. She could have regenerated from her remains from an embryo and be found later naked and mindless waiting for a good Doctor to do that little known Galifreyan ‘mind transference’ ritual to reintegrate her mind…

… the mind being stored in a mind wart thing in the noggin of a certain guard. She put it there when she snogged him in escaping from her cell. And we thought it was just to take him by surprise, that saucy little minx!

(How did she know she was going to die? She’s a time lady! They see all time and space! Except when they come across something that isn’t set in time…)

[Pete Part Three]

>Could have been worse. She could have regenerated from her remains from an embryo and be found later naked

This is worse?!

[pfm]

> Oh, and I thought the revelation was going to be that the whole situation was a bigger intelligence?s giant experiment.

That would have saved this episode. We cut to a monitor, slowly zoom out to reveal the back of a chair, a single hand at the controls. ‘I’ll get you next time, Gadget, er I mean Doctor…next time…’

[ChrisM]

>Could have been worse. She could have regenerated from her remains from an embryo and be found later naked

This is worse?!

Well ok… maybe not the naked bit.

[Seb Patrick]

That was actually alright, dodgy last ten minutes or so notwithstanding. Easily the best of this series so far, anyway.

But I’m very annoyed at not getting a “rest of series” trailer like we did when there was a Eurovision break last year. It kind of sums up the complacent laziness of this series so far. These seven (seven!) episodes have been anything but stellar, and let’s face it, we sort of needed a glimpse of the finale to keep us interested.

[Andrew]

> Easily the best of this series so far, anyway.

We shall have words, young feller me lad!

But yeah, not at all bad.

> These seven (seven!) episodes have been anything but stellar, and let?s face it, we sort of needed a glimpse of the finale to keep us interested.

And again with the needing of words… :-)

[John Hoare]

I wonder whether the reason we didn’t get a rest-of-season trailer is because they really don’t want to give ANYTHING away.

But either way, that was good stuff. I still can’t get past Tate to enjoy the good jokes she was given, but it was lots of fun.

[Seb Patrick]

Sorry, but there has just been absolutely nothing to excite me. Pompeii probably came the closest, but I had severe issues with the ending. Everything else, just… eh. I haven’t *hated* anything, but I certainly haven’t loved anything either. And I know it’s tradition for things to get better in the second half of a series (will anything in telly history ever match the run of Human Nature/Family of Blood-Blink-Utopia?), but in each of the three previous years, by this point we’d at least had *something* that was absolutely brilliant.

[Michael Warren]

The ‘rest of series’ trailer will be shown next week at 8pm – just before Eurovision.

Episode wasn’t bad – better than I thought it was going to be, based on the trailer.

[Seb Patrick]

>The ?rest of series? trailer will be shown next week at 8pm – just before Eurovision.

CHEATS.

[John Hoare]

Fucking excellent, though. Wonder how much they *will* give away, then…

[ChrisM]

I liked this weeks. Silly monster, yet quite a freaky idea, and amusing. (Although I don’t really buy the posh woman getting impregnated by giant wasp… oo-er…)

Not sure they had enough information to come up with the mystery resolution, but the episode worked overall.

I’m not happy that Eurovision is replacing Doctor Who, but it’s traditional I suppose… I’d have preferred they just reschedule Who for another time or move it over to BBC2 or 3 but I guess that’s easier said than done.

[Andrew]

> but in each of the three previous years, by this point we?d at least had *something* that was absolutely brilliant.

But that’s the thing, I guess – for me Fires of Pompeii was top-drawer, a mere step below the Moffats, Cornells and season climaxes. I just found SO much to it, everything I want from a Who story. A good mystery, visually arresting imagery, appropriate monsters, wicked body horror, a neat line in supporting characters, interesting morality, some Doctor-based character work, a well-constructed twist…all topped off with some lovely production values. No question it’s in my top ten for New Who.

(I was also very keen on Planet of the Ood. I’d take the Sontaran story over their equivalent two-parters in the last three series. And I had some fun with the Doctor’s Daughter character work, despite the shoddy plotting. I’m having as entertaining a time as I’d had, more or less.)

[ChrisM]

Same here, I like this series.

Might not come across that way the amount I dissect each episode and remark on stuff I think didn’t work… but I’ve enjoyed it just the same. (And the analysis is part of the fun.)

One thing, on hearing the repeated references of bees vanishing, I remembered a clip at the start of the season with a giant bee/wasp thing. I thought those events were likely linked.

Interesting to see in hindsight how wrong I was.

[Seb Patrick]

>One thing, on hearing the repeated references of bees vanishing, I remembered a clip at the start of the season with a giant bee/wasp thing.

A few people have mentioned this, actually, to which I’ve only been able to reply… is it REALLY that hard to tell the difference between a bee and a wasp?

[Dave]

It was a space wasp in Space Pilot 3000, but by The Sting they had become bees

[Andrew]

> It was a space wasp in Space Pilot 3000, but by The Sting they had become bees

Ha ! Yes!

[ChrisM]

.A few people have mentioned this, actually, to which I?ve only been able to reply? is it REALLY that hard to tell the difference between a bee and a wasp?

Well…. they both wear stripy pajamas.

Actually I can tell the difference in real life, and I agree the creature looked like a wasp rather than a bee, but since neither is 8 feet long… well who is to say what mutations could have happened to the bees on making them that big? (If that is the route they had taken, obviously.)

Of course it was neither a wasp or a bee anyway.

[Ridley]

I thought that one was pretty dull overall actually. Not sure I can place what it was though, it just seemed a bit… samey.

Ah (edit), I could compare it to the back end of “Espionage Escapes” (the first half wasn’t particular pleasant either but that’s another story) of Young Indiana Jones:

Having a whole ‘comedic’ episode, that changes the usual tone of the series, intended in the style Franz Kafka doesn’t make the fact it’s an episode about someone installing a phone interesting or funny.

This week’s episode was ultimately about a wasp who just wanted to be loved. And while the elements of the series were there it was done in a way that didn’t come across as self-mocking but laughed at you for having watched it.

[Pete Part Three]

Well, it wasn’t great but it’s good to see a distinct absence of “running”. A rather lengthy love-letter to Christie (the title references got tiresome) and the characters were all thinly drawn.

Better than the Sontaran stuff and the Adipose episode as well. It’s probably got the edge on last week too. Pompei is still the best this season has to offer.

The best bit was the Doctor sitting on the chair and being drawn into a completely unrelated flashback.

[John Hoare]

The best bit was the Doctor sitting on the chair and being drawn into a completely unrelated flashback.

Yes! I’m not sure if Buffy ever did that, but it felt like a very Buffy-style thing to do.

Having a whole ?comedic? episode, that changes the usual tone of the series, intended in the style Franz Kafka doesn?t make the fact it?s an episode about someone installing a phone interesting or funny.

Surely the the JOKES in this episode make it funny, though?

This week?s episode was ultimately about a wasp who just wanted to be loved. And while the elements of the series were there it was done in a way that didn?t come across as self-mocking but laughed at you for having watched it.

I REALLY didn’t get the idea that the series was laughing at the viewer at all. What kind of things made you think that?

[Ridley]

Not the series, just that episode.

It’s the combination of these over the top performances (with the last five minutes played straight) and references to how similar this is to what went before (Dickens, spiders) that just made it seem like you should have been embarrassed for having went along with those stories in the first place.

[ChrisM]

references to how similar this is to what went before (Dickens, spiders) that just made it seem like you should have been embarrassed for having went along with those stories in the first place.

I saw those references as more a wink to the fans, as in, “Remember when…” rather than mockery of the fans. Of course if you disliked those episodes, it might come across that way.

[Smeg4Brains]

> he?s either one of the originals, or he was created as a helpful father figure for the other soldiers!

I’m sure I remember him talking about his ancestors starting the war.

[Andrew]

> I?m sure I remember him talking about his ancestors starting the war.

He did. So he’s another clone. Making the war-weariness even dafter. “Oh, war is hell. I should know – I’ve been fighting for three days now.”

[ChrisM]

> I?m sure I remember him talking about his ancestors starting the war.

He did. So he?s another clone. Making the war-weariness even dafter. ?Oh, war is hell. I should know – I?ve been fighting for three days now.?

Or he was lying to keep the others fighting.

Yeah, I’m not sure I quite buy that either.

[Seb Patrick]

> I?m sure I remember him talking about his ancestors starting the war.

He did. So he?s another clone. Making the war-weariness even dafter. ?Oh, war is hell. I should know – I?ve been fighting for three days now.?

The REALLY daft thing is that the idea of a clone race that is actually much younger than it thinks it is is a really neat one. I just don’t understand why the chosen time period was so short. They could quite easily have had it be, say, six months or a year that the war had been going on, just with everyone thinking it had been thousands, and it would have been just as effective without creating all these sorts of questions…

[John Hoare]

To be fair, if I’d been on the front line fighting a war even just for three days, I’d be pretty sick of it too – if it was violent and bloody enough. Which it obviously is, if clones need to keep being replaced!

[Andrew]

Yet on the one day we saw, up to the end there were only a couple of casualties on either side and no signs of huge battles being fought elsewhere. It seems insanely unlikely that EVERY member of the original crew has died – and all AFTER creating offspring (wouldn’t you send the clones out to do your fighting anyway?) – and even more unlikely that not one of them wrote anything down, left a radio to home active, or had time to program the soldiers for war but not to know what’s actually going on.

This would have made a lot more sense if there were only two crew members to start with – one of each. Having got into a stupid fight, to the point of near death, they both hit the clone button…

(Or, yeah, what Seb said.)

[John Hoare]

I don’t think the six months or a year thing quite has the wow factor required for the twist. A week does.

Still, yeah, I admit there are major problems with the general idea of it. It’s just that the specific character of the war-weary solider doesn’t bug me per se, as there are enough ways of explaining it away.

What perhaps would have solved part of the problem is if the soliders *knew* the war had only been going for a week, but didn’t mention it as they saw no reason to. That would have solved some of the problems Andrew mentions, at least.

[Andrew]

> I don?t think the six months or a year thing quite has the wow factor required for the twist. A week does.

This is the problem for me. It’s a twist that looks great in the pitch, but the logistics simply don’t add up.

> What perhaps would have solved part of the problem is if the soliders *knew* the war had only been going for a week, but didn?t mention it as they saw no reason to.

See, I think this WAS what was intended! Just another thing that wasn’t handled with clarity…

[John Hoare]

To be honest, I thought the soldiers *did* know… and then people in this thread were talking like they *didn’t* know – and as I fully admit I’m sometimes bloody awful at following plots, I just assumed I was wrong!

Regardless – the ending with the not-a-regeneration-but-looks-like-one is the bit that annoys me most. And why the HELL did everyone assume that there wasn’t going to be a regeneration anyway? Why does Martha shaking her head mean anything? As someone said on another forum I go to, since when did she become an expert on Time Lord physiology?

[Andrew]

> Why does Martha shaking her head mean anything?

Having now watched it twice, this bugs me even more – because Martha SAYS there’s no sign that she’ll regenerate. So a) someone told Martha about regenerations, then? And b) she feels medically qualified to recognise one.

I hate that I’m railing on TDD like this, because I actually did like the episode, but it’s rare for a show to cock-up by both being too direct and obvious (the plot is, literally, ‘get from A to B’, and exposition dialogue abounds) and too confused and vague.

[Dave]

It’s very telling that The Unicorn And The Wasp barely made a dent in the seven day war discussion.

[Smeg4Brains]

> someone told Martha about regenerations, then?

The Master

[Dave]

>And b) she feels medically qualified to recognise one.

Maybe UNIT’s files are incredibly thorough. Spearhead From Space & Robot both put the post-regenerative Doctor into a UNIT controlled hospital.

[Michael Warren]

http://www.gallifreyone.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?id=EkEEkAyuFuDUQWwpTO&tmpl=newsrss&style=feedstyle

…

[Pete Part Three]

YEEEESSS

[Seb Patrick]

I already knew about this “unofficially”, but… YAY.

[Seb Patrick]

Moffat said: “My entire career has been a secret plan to get this job. I applied before but I got knocked back because the BBC wanted someone else. Also I was seven.

God, I love him. I love him so much.

[Andrew]

Fuckin’ Dancer!

Yep, that’s just about the best telly news in years.

Anyone NOW want to bet that he’ll be unavailable for the entire run of Tintin?

[Pete Part Three]

Anyone else think the trailer for the next episode looked a bit dull though?

[ChrisM]

>Anyone else think the trailer for the next episode looked a bit dull though?

Actually, yeah… but maybe that’s a good thing. It might just mean they’re cutting on the spoilers.

Besides, according to that article above, it’s a 2 parter, so there might be a bit more for us to get our teeth into.

[pfm]

Considering only 3 out of the 6 Jekyll episodes were any good and Coupling was mostly a piece of shit, this is good news HOW?????? And FFS Chalk, it’s NOT Brittas, it’s NOT Fawlty Towers, it’s crap! OK, Press Gang, I’ll give him that, maybe…

Before we know it Who could be all over in the blink of an eye, with the BBC dancing on the Doctor’s grave leaving the fans feeling like empty children being told there must be ‘silence!’ in the library of family sci-fi. The viewers could leave like…like girls in fireplaces bound for the Forest of the Dead. All joking apart, it’s gonna be like a curse of fatal death, a real time crash, something that Tintin himself couldn’t solve.

Where do they find these hacks? Why can’t RTD be showrunner forever??

[Author]

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