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  • #112109
    si
    Participant

    The scene in the bedroom where Amy screams.That painting behind her…turn it upside down and it looks like a Silent. Also:
    WILD SPECULATIVE THEORY



    I think it might be Canton in the suit. It’s old Canton who says that the Doctor is definitely dead, then later on, young Canton states that he’ll shoot him himself…

    #112110
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Well, we know that River’s banged up for murdering “a good man”. I think whoever it is, it’ll be a ‘goodie’ who’s doing it for some timey wimey reason, and possibly under The Doctor’s instructions.

    #112111
    Jo
    Participant

    Re: Rory remembering his 2000 years waiting for Amy.
    He didn’t say he’d forgotten it; The Doctor asked if he remembered and he said No, The Doctor then asked if he was lying and he said of course he was. He explained that he didn’t remember it all the time, I think he said something about a door in his mind that he can keep shut.

    Maybe I’m wrong but I took this to mean that he *can* remember if he wants to but he chooses not too. I’d imagine that waiting 2000 years for the love of your life is not the most pleasant experience…

    I think it might be Canton in the suit. It’s old Canton who says that the Doctor is definitely dead, then later on, young Canton states that he’ll shoot him himself…

    He only said he’d shoot him if he didn’t deliver on his promise to explain where the phone call came from though…

    #112112
    Jo
    Participant

    River’s comment about how the more she gets to know The Doctor the less he knows her is slightly odd since we already know that time isn’t linear. Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey!

    Maybe she just means that it seems that way to her, but her reaction to The Doctor saying they’d never kissed before is a little extreme – just because it’s his first kiss with her doesn’t automatically make it her last kiss with him.

    WWTW.

    #112113
    si
    Participant

    I know Canton was only referring to what happened in the Office – that’s what made my suggestion Wild and Speculative! :)

    #112114
    Jo
    Participant

    Singingpotato1979 (I always call her that, even in bed) pointed out last night that the little girl could be Jenny. Having thought about it more, I think it could be The Doctor, and that’s how they get out of his death. Somehow.

    He does, it’s true.
    You’re probably right, given The Doctor’s death storyline this would make the most sense. It just seems off to me that The Doctor would walk up to a complete stranger and then regenerate. The little girl seemed to know that she was dying and that it would be ok, but her reaction to the regeneration starting seemed to me as if it was still a new thing to her and she wanted to show it off, that’s why I thought of Jenny. Perhaps she’s only regenerated once before and it’s still all new… It’s a theory anyway :oD

    #112115
    Jo
    Participant

    I know Canton was only referring to what happened in the Office – that’s what made my suggestion Wild and Speculative! :)

    …fine. Are we not allowed to respond to wild and speculative theories then?

    #112116
    si
    Participant

    I was just being silly! See, it had an exclamation mark and a smiley face!

    Another one: At the end of ep 1, Amy says she’s pregnant.Ep 2 starts three months later, and ends six months after that.

    So the child regenerates nine months after Amy ‘thinks’ she’s pregnant…okay, I’m shutting up now.

    !
    :)

    #112117
    Nick R
    Participant

    River’s comment about how the more she gets to know The Doctor the less he knows her is slightly odd since we already know that time isn’t linear. Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey!

    Maybe she just means that it seems that way to her, but her reaction to The Doctor saying they’d never kissed before is a little extreme – just because it’s his first kiss with her doesn’t automatically make it her last kiss with him.

    Yes, IIRC in Silence in the library/Forest of the Dead the implication was that they were meeting each other randomly. But now that seems to be have been changed to “strictly linear, but in opposite directions”.

    Someone (from Something Awful, apparently) came up with this timeline of what we know of their meetings:
    http://i.imgur.com/RAbmS.png

    #112118
    si
    Participant

    Am I trying to read too much into things, or is there some significance in River’s first appearance being ‘Silence in the Library’? Silence? See.

    No, shut up Simon, go to your corner and dribble…

    #112120
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > Silence isn’t the only thing that’s going to fall though. The ratings are going to take a dive, as this isn’t the mainstream Doctor Who that RTD cultivated.

    Last week’s final BARB figures (the one’s that matter) were 8.86 million. I can’t imagine episode 2 falling too far short of that considering the over nights were about 6. And none of that counts the 1 to 1.5 millions views it gets in iPlayer.

    It’ll definitely be interesting to see if figures drop off as the weeks go by, but it doesn’t seem likely it’ll have a huge effect.

    #112124
    si
    Participant

    Neil Gaiman’s episode should grab the genre fans, and then the mid-season finale at week seven should tempt with promises of a massive cliffhanger. I don’t think there’s any problem.

    #112125
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    Saw this on another forum. A kinda interesting timeline that shows the Doctor and River’s timelines and at which points they cross…

    http://www.treksinscifi.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7641.0;attach=9574;image

    #112129
    Tanya Jones
    Participant

    I reckon the Silence took Amy’s baby away after she had it under their capture, then wiped her memory, but the TARDIS is picking up on the confusion in her brain. The little girl’s not the Doctor’s kid, but was actually turned into a Time Child when exposed to the TARDIS’ radiation in the womb.

    It made sense last night…

    #112130
    Ridley
    Participant

    I’ve a feeling it will be completely standalone, as will anything non-Moffat-penned, I shoul imagine.

    Like that crack business. ;)

    #112136
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I enjoyed that. I was a bit confused to start with and rewatched the start, but it all fell into place. Mostly.

    Only bit I didn’t quite get (apart from the stuff that we’re not supposed to get yet, i.e. the stuff surrounding the little girl, and what was with the one eyed woman peering through the door?) was that little exchange between The Doctor and Rory. Wasn’t the version of Rory that waited for millennia an auton, with human Rory’s memories?

    I assumed when the universe was brought back at the end of last series the human Rory was brought back with it. I wouldn’t have thought he’d remember anything anyway since it was effectively someone else…

    No doubt I’ve missed a line somewhere as this being Roman Rory (at least in memory if not in substance, what with fathering a child and all. If that was him.) seems to be pretty much accepted. I suppose they both merged, or something… Since Pond’s memory seemed key to resolving the end of that story I guess that sort of makes sense. The memories originally went the other way after all.

    I reckon the Silence took Amy’s baby away after she had it under their capture, then wiped her memory,

    I thought that too…

    but the TARDIS is picking up on the confusion in her brain.

    I don’t think it was the confusion in her brain it was picking up as it was definitely the womb area that was shown in the scan. I suspect it’s more a time related thing, either due to the Tardis’s nature as a time machine or something time related to the child itself*, or both. I suppose the Time Child at the end could be the future self of that baby? The Silence have a Tardis of sorts after all. I wouldn’t be surprised if this were an red herring, but that photo certainly supports this idea.

    I’m not convinced time radiation would turn a human child into a member of the Timelord’s race though. That suggests the only difference between them and us is their exposure to time radiation/energy/stuff. Unless she’s just a human child who has the time lords power of regeneration due exposure to the time energy, but… that seems a bit of a stretch to me. Could the Doctor’s, or another Time Lords’ sperm been nobbled at some point by the Silence and injected into Pond? Neither would remember the experience a second or so later after all. That seems a bit extreme for a show with a large child following though.

    *I.e maybe the Tardis scanner can pick up two different states of a person/object past/present, and the results flickered back and forth between them both.

    #112137
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I loved the bit in yesterday’s episode where the Doctor said “shall we go and resolve this story arc, or shall we have a few non-connected adventures first to keep the kids happy?”

    Moffat doesn’t put any dialog to waste. The Doctor’s decision to avoid locating the girl suggests to me that he knows something he’s not telling… just as the others know something about the Doctor’s future that they’re not telling.

    #112148
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I wasn’t too fussed by that bit simply because… well… they have a time machine. And this doctor seems to have a lot more control over it than his predecessors, what with being able to catch River when she did her famous plummet. I.e. I figured they can go off and have a few adventures, then come back where they left off…

    Of course the bit at the end suggests that’s not the case since a few months on she has sickened and has to take care of things, and it does rather seem to be taking chances with peoples lives (especially that they’re going to survive in the interim.) Maybe ‘Doctor knowing something’ is the best theory there.

    I suspect he has already worked out who sent the messages too. Or at least strongly suspects.

    #112241
    Ridley
    Participant

    Okay, where did the pirate who barricaded himself in with Amy, Rory and Toby go?

    #112242
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    I was just asking my daughter the same thing. The same guy that played Libbie’s Dad recently in Eastenders and played Dodger (I think) in Our House back in the 80’s!

    Can’t be arsed to IMDB…

    #112243
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    Not Now, siren singer.

    #112244
    si
    Participant

    Okay, SPOILERISH STUFF FOR ANYONE WHO HASN’T SEEN IT YET IN WHICH CASE THE INTERNET PROBABLY ISN’T THE BEST PLACE FOR YOU JUST YET:





    Well, I say ‘spoilerish’, dunno what I’m gonna say yet, but typing that gives me free reign.
    That, going by what Twitter has to say, doesn’t look to have been received all that strongly. Personally, I thought it was a bit hit and miss – a little disjointed, it didn’t seem to flow that well. The Ghost Ship section was a bit off for me – the co-existing reality stuff – didn’t quite gel to my mind.
    I noticed the missing pirate – thought that was just me – thought the Pirates flying off at the end was a bit corny.
    However, I thought there was some good dialogue along the way – the Doctor had some decent lines, and I also thought Rory’s ‘post-Marked’ (ha! ‘Post-marked’! That’s quite funny, didn’t mean to write that, but I like it, it’s staying) state was amusing. And Amy as a Pirate. Works for me.
    The ending, with Rory…who *really* expected him to die? Fair do’s,it was a close call, but the fact that he kept dying last year kind of numbed the experience for the viewer, I feel.
    Also, I didn’t like the way The Doctor kept telling the others to ignore what he’d said before – made him look as though he’s always wrong, which, as we all know, he isn’t.
    Not a terrible episode by any means, but just felt like it could have done with some tightening up.
    Also, it has helped formulate a theory in my big old empty head about what may be happening. However, it’s the same theory that formulated in my head at the same stage of last year’s series, and I was wrong there, so I’ll just keep it to myself for now.

    Okay, thank you. That’s it, I’m done.

    #112245
    pfm
    Participant

    Enjoyed it more than the opening 2-parter. One of the better throwaway romp-y episodes in recent times; it didn’t make me utter the word ‘pah’ once… Alright alright, when Rory allllmost ‘died’ again sheesh!

    > And Amy as a Pirate. Works for me.

    God, yeah… she can swash my buckle any day!

    Then shag me. Eleven times. The 2nd, 4th, 5th and 9th being the best…

    #112196
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Your bog standard 3 star Doctor Who episode. Perfectly watchable, not overly memorable and justifiably skippable in a series re-watch.

    #112246
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I enjoyed it rather a lot. Plenty of action, some cracking dialogue. My only niggles: there was some cheese at the end, and Rory’s non-death being more or less a foregone conclusion (I figured he wouldn’t die, what with the episode order reshuffle). Still, these are relatively minor complaints in the grand scheme of things. Loved it. Tons of fun.

    I also liked that the Doctor kept getting it wrong – a stark change from the omnipotent Godlike figure presented in RTD’s era (and in series five, at times).

    The medical bay aboard the alien ship looked a lot like the storage facility in Coma. A lot like it. Almost identical, in fact.

    #112247
    si
    Participant

    The medical bay reminded me a bit of that set from Evolution of the Daleks, with the multi-level bed-type-things and stuff…you, know? Looking for a photo, can’t find one.

    I also liked that the Doctor kept getting it wrong – a stark change from the omnipotent Godlike figure presented in RTD’s era (and in series five, at times).

    It was alright the first time, but the idea that he *kept* getting it wrong…I found it annoying. The first time is a bit of a twist, but he did it three times at least.

    #112250
    redhead85
    Participant

    I thought the episode was….OK. Nice bit of swash-buckling but nothing that stood out for me. Like Pete said – it’s one of those eps that you can cough awkwardly as you skip past it on the DVD release.

    #112277

    I enjoyed it. Nice, simple episode.

    But PM what do you actually have against Steven Moffat? Jekyll = brilliant. Press Gang = brilliant. His ep of Sherlock = brilliant. His Dr Who ep’s = brilliant. I really don’t get what your problem is.

    #112278

    P.S Jonsmad, your comment is still making me smile.

    #112280
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    It was alright the first time, but the idea that he *kept* getting it wrong…I found it annoying. The first time is a bit of a twist, but he did it three times at least.

    I continue to love it. This is a Doctor who isn’t afraid to take wild stabs in the dark, but who also isn’t afraid to admit he’s completely and utterly wrong. A protagonist who knows everything about everything is… well, a bit dull.

    #112283
    pfm
    Participant

    > But PM what do you actually have against Steven Moffat?

    My current bother with him is…it feels like he’s now taking the piss out of us, the viewers, with his writing. He used to draw you in to his Who stories but now…he makes it all too obvious that it’s a series you’re watching, taking you out of the drama on far too many occasions.

    The worst moment in DotM was the Doctor saying right…should we carry on the main story now, because obviously you want to know what happens next…but, oh shit, we’ve got 4 more episodes to fill before we can do that so…random adventures it is then! We don’t need hitting over the head with that WITHIN the narrative! Moffat’s so full of himself, it’s like he’s making his version of Oasis’s ‘Be Here Now’, the smug, millionare’s, coke-fueled 3rd album, in front of our very eyes! Maybe a slightly OTT analogy but…ffs NEIL GAIMAN in less than 3 DAYS!!! :D

    #112284

    I disagree entirely, I don’t see it as smug at all, and it certainly has nothing to do with cocaine…

    It’s pretty futile to use the “RTD was/remains to be far more full of himself than Moffat ever could be” seeing as that’s completely besides the point… but I’m going to throw it out there anyway.

    It’s just funny, really. Bit of humour in there never hurt anyone. Red Dwarf uses it quite a lot ;)

    Tbh, I don’t mean any offence, but you do seem to be getting angry the same way the Daily Mail gets angry about things; you seem to have an agenda to not like something. Then again that could just be my imagination, seeing as I really love Steven Moffat’s writing style and find his scripts have so far always been of a high quality.

    Now it’s time for me to try and get back to sleep. Night all!

    #112285
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    It’s pretty futile to use the “RTD was/remains to be far more full of himself than Moffat ever could be” seeing as that’s completely besides the point… but I’m going to throw it out there anyway.

    See, after just accusing PM of being unfair to Moffat… I think you’ve been massively unfair to RTD, there.

    #112286

    You’re right, I take it back, I actually didn’t start that sentence to end it the way I did, I just forgot what I was going to say after the “…” But no, RTD is a good screen writer, I particularly enjoyed his Casanova.

    #112287
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I don’t think Moffat is taking the piss out of the viewer, and anyone who can reach that conclusion and then stick with it probably needs to get a CAT scan.

    #112084
    Ridley
    Participant

    Oh the Patrick squeeing will be unbearable. *looks at Twitter* Yep!

    #112085
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Short review as on way out: Batshit crazy, but a ton of fun. An extra 10 minutes would have been peachy. Compare to the similarly game-changing The Doctor’s Daughter and shudder about how bad this could have been.

    And Rory died. Again.

    #112295
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    >And Rory died. Again.

    And also spent years and years waiting for Amy. I don’t think these recurrences of events are accidental. I reckon they’ve got to be tied in with the eye patch lady storyline.

    Also…AWESOME EPISODE!!!

    #112296
    hummingbird
    Participant

    After last week being a bit of a disappointment, that was absolutely bloody marvellous.
    So may things to love that I don’t know where to start.

    #112297
    redhead85
    Participant

    This week’s episode was made of utterly pure and undiluted win.

    #112298
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    The fact that the Tardis Point of view is that she stole the dr, all the stuff between them, the other consoles in this episode, and the Tardis scrapyard, the actress playing the character, the madness, foresight and playfullness of a human Tardis Matrix, and jokes about being “old girl” or “sexy” = utter brilliant. Loved it. Favourite line is “picking up strays”, also loved the room deleting being referenced again.

    The promised “further inside the Tardis” being corridor time wasting nonsense = Boredom & Dissapointment.

    The excitement of “There are Time Lords” turning to nothing, was a bit dissapointing too, but totally rightly so in terms of the story, and so quite brilliant in terms
    of how the doctor felt through out this episode.

    #112301
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I wasn’t sure initially. I found myself a bit irritated by the characters in the introduction… but then the episode really took off and was rather good!

    Again with the sound drowning out some of the dialogue though! Grr!

    My favourite line: “You’re not the Tardis. You’re a mad bitey lady.”

    #112304
    si
    Participant

    NON-SPOILER





    Fucking BRILLIANT.

    #112305

    Hate to be predictable, but I loved that episode. *So* *fucking* *much*. Although Gaiman probably should have had the corridor bits from Rory’s point of view with Amy being the one who died or something. When I saw Rory’s “corpse”, I just sort of rolled my eyes and thought “oh no, not again.”

    But no, that was seriously fucking awesome.

    #112306

    Oh and my favourite line was “I’m sexy”, and the fact that I found Human TARDIS attractive didn’t even have much to do with it.

    #112309
    si
    Participant

    Did we catch the ‘Ood Created by Russell T Davies’ credit? Didn’t notice that on my first viewing. Second time round, yes. And the third.

    #112273
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >The fact that the Tardis Point of view is that she stole the dr

    Ah, yes. Lovely stuff. And “Hello”. Wonderful.

    #112311
    Nick R
    Participant

    It was a fantastic episode, and I’m sure I’d say that even if I didn’t know who’d written it. As I posted over at URP, the only real low point of the episode was the scene where Amy and Rory edge their way past the corridor-turned-pit – a wonderful idea, but the direction (and budget limitations?) didn’t show it at its best. It also would have been nice to see some other rooms, instead of just corridors and the Nine/Ten console room.

    But that those are pretty minor complaints compared to the episode as a whole, which was crammed with ideas and humour. It’ll be a very rewarding episode to rewatch! Who cares about Day of the Moon ending with the Doctor pointing out how they’re going to put the series arc on hold to have some one-off adventures, when we got this as one of those one-off adventures?

    Anyone want to ask Neil a question about the episode?
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2011/may/14/neil-gaiman-doctor-who-live-blog

    Although Gaiman probably should have had the corridor bits from Rory’s point of view with Amy being the one who died or something.

    Just saw this posted on the xkcd forum:
    http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll84s4ZmKh1qafmk8o1_500.gif

    lol

    #112312
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    I really do think the repeated killing of Rory is tied in somehow to the ongoing story arc….Not coincidental.

    #112315
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I don’t mind the fake killings of Rory so much, but I thought the end part of The Black Spot was bad. Not just because it was Rory again (although that was a big factor) but also the fact it’s the type of scene done again and again elsewhere. It really has reached cliché status!

    The fake (if it is fake) ‘aged to death’ stuff in this episode was okay with me though.

    #112318
    Phil1034
    Participant

    Can’t believe Idris wasn’t Romana, The Rani or Paul McGann. Bloody Gallifrey Base!

    #112319
    srmcd1
    Participant

    Who thinks Rory is the “good man” that River kills? Anyone? Chances are he’ll find his way back to the living, but she’ll still go to jail for killing him in the first place.

    #112326
    Ridley
    Participant

    #112328
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Heh. I like that.

    #112334
    Ridley
    Participant

    #112335

    Hahaha!

    #112340
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    The woman with the eye patch is Jenny Mutant from Red Dwarf. Do we already know this?

    #112341
    Jo
    Participant
    #112351
    hummingbird
    Participant

    I’m spoiler free so I don’t know if this has been speculated already, but feel free to laugh and point if it has.

    I’m just wondering if the fact that we now have a ganger of the Doctor explains who was killed in episode 1?

    #112353
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    That’s the obvious solution to the problem, but it almost seems too obvious to me. I suspect we’ll know more on Saturday – if the Gangerdoctor survives the episode, it seems likely, but I doubt he will.

    #112354
    Phil1034
    Participant

    Doctor Who is the Radio Times moment of the week. Apparently it’s a big surprise which eagle eyed viewers will already have figured out or something. Whether the Radio Times’ definition of a surprise is the same as fandoms remains to be seen.

    #112355
    hummingbird
    Participant

    > That’s the obvious solution to the problem, but it almost seems too obvious to me. I suspect we’ll know more on Saturday – if the Gangerdoctor survives the episode, it seems likely, but I doubt he will.

    It does seem a little *too* obvious, but I sort of like the idea that we’d have GangerDoctor running around the universe with his own agenda. Add that to the fact that he survives for 200 years … presumably outliving the eleventh incarnation of the Doctor, which opens things up for the twelfth Doctor to interact with the ganger of his former self. Which would be quite interesting.

    #112397
    Gwynnie
    Participant

    Just watched episode 6…. the end, eek! What is going on!? ^_^

    #112401
    pfm
    Participant

    Best combined twist/resolution/ending to an episode in ages. Oh yes!

    #112402
    hummingbird
    Participant

    I don’t know … I thought it was a good twist, but I feel as if we’ve been there before. It’s all a little too X-files.

    #112405
    si
    Participant

    I was awake at twenty to five this morning, thinking about Doctor Who and writing odd theories on Twitter. I wrote this:

    http://bit.ly/m51avD

    #112412
    Nick R
    Participant

    In the Doctor Dwarf thread, Seb wrote:

    Also, he didn’t kill the Amy Ganger. He severed the psychic link between Amy and it

    Must’ve been a hell of a psychic link, if they were able to stay connected not just across different time periods, but even – as in TDW – outside the universe!

    #112413
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Yeah, that’s been said a few times. But we don’t know how powerful the people who created the ganger are. I mean, they’re powerful enough to kidnap Amy without the Doctor knowing. They’re probably generally pretty powerful, overall.

    A bigger question for me, and one that I haven’t seen posed yet, is why it was in the Doctor’s interests to immediately get rid of the ganger, rather than (a) making use of Amy’s connection to it to try and help find where she is, and (b) offer her mind company and solace while the “real” her is stuck wherever she is.

    #112414
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Also, he didn’t kill the Amy Ganger. He severed the psychic link between Amy and it

    I understand that it wasn’t quite the same in that the duplicate doctor used his screwdriver to generate a resonance signal to break down the ganger, while our Doctor just broke the link. He did state that he would try to make it as humane as possible though which suggests that it was a painful experience for the Flesh.

    #112415
    Gwynnie
    Participant

    On some of the other DW forums people are debating when exactly Amy was “taken” and swapped. At first I thought it was when she disappeared and they found her psychic link recorder on the floor, but we saw the creepy eyepatch woman before that… so when did it happen?

    I did find it surprising that the Doctor didn’t use her to locate the signal, yes… although perhaps he already did that when we weren’t looking. My mind is desperately trying to work out the connection between this baby, the girl in the spacesuit and apparently River Song… and why the girl was regenerating in the alley! I really hope it’s a good twist and isn’t written off with a cheap plot device.

    #112427
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    A bigger question for me, and one that I haven’t seen posed yet, is why it was in the Doctor’s interests to immediately get rid of the ganger, rather than (a) making use of Amy’s connection to it to try and help find where she is, and (b) offer her mind company and solace while the “real” her is stuck wherever she is.

    Amy was going into labour. It may have been medically risky to keep her connected to the Ganger. Plus the Doctor may still have been able to discern the location of the link based on the information he’d accumulated.

    Or maybe not. Big show like this, anything could happen.

    He did state that he would try to make it as humane as possible though which suggests that it was a painful experience for the Flesh.

    It suggests that it could be a painful experience, but that the Doctor has donbe his best to make it as painless as possible.

    #112388
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    > (a) making use of Amy’s connection to it to try and help find where she is

    Best guess? He has a clue where and when it happened.

    > (b) offer her mind company and solace while the “real” her is stuck wherever she is.

    The real Amy’s a smart-girl. He trusts her. Whilst on the one hand he has abandoned her, his action also allows her to fully concentrate on wherever she now is and what she’s up against.

    #112453
    si
    Participant

    Typical. I was almost there, yet couldn’t bring myself to write it down. I had to all around the houses.

    http://bit.ly/m51avD

    (EP 7 SPOILERS/SUGGESTIONS)

    #112454
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    LET’S KILL HITLER.

    #112455
    si
    Participant

    I’m *still* laughing at that.

    #112456
    pfm
    Participant

    More like…LET’S KILL MOFFAT!!

    Why do his episodes feel like they’re written by a giddy teenage boy trying too hard? It’s all about statements, cockiness, remarking on how cool and how clever everyone and everything is without earning those honours, not remotely.

    Not that AGMGTW was a bad episode. The effects and performances were mostly outstanding. I particularly love how Arthur Darvill gets better and better with each episode. Making Rory so solid, commanding and dependable here, especially compared with the increasingly flakey Doctor. One of Karen’s best episodes too.

    The River revelation…something easily guessable from the opening 2-parter, and there’s always been speculation about the River/Pond connection. It’s a good little twist but not half as jaw-dropping as Moffat bigged it up to be. Plus, it’s not something that would have meant much to the Doctor until this point in time. i.e. when he’s asked her who she is before she could have told him and it would have been…..so what?? The revelation of ‘who she really is’ should connect more with the Doctor rather than just Amy. Amy didn’t even exist when Moffat wrote River’s first episodes.

    #112458
    Gwynnie
    Participant

    Was it planned all along, or did they wing it? Spoiler time!

    I’d say that “who River is” does have a connection to the Doctor… even if her Time Lord DNA was only caused by being conceived in the TARDIS, it means that he isn’t truly the last of his kind (again)… perhaps then he can piece together why she can fly the TARDIS and read Galifreyan, how she time travels and why he supposedly loves her. Although it makes her earlier comments to Rory about how he swept her off her feet when she was a young girl, knowing so much about her, a little creepy as I’m wondering just how young she was when he “met” her again… are we talking back to America 1969? I’m assuming it was her in the space suit, of course… at least all signs point to that, and the writers do tend to go with the obvious storyline rather than the fantastic twists that the fans come up with ;)!

    Not surprisingly the Doctor Who page on Facebook has a lot of badly spelt comments such as “OMG wot an amazing twist i didnt c that comin!!!” while the nerdier fans point out that it was pretty obvious. I suppose that once we learned that the baby’s name was Melody, it was quite easy to piece together the child in the orphanage, the picture of Amy with the baby, the space suit, the regeneration in the alleyway (where did that accent go though, River?), the TARDIS in human form’s comment, the name connection.

    What this means, though, is that later in River’s timeline she meets Amy and Rory again, but she can’t tell them who she is. Also this whole “I was jailed for killing a good man” business… if it was her in the space suit, she would have known all along. Although I’m wondering whether we’re just meant to assume that she means she killed the Doctor, and then it turns out to be Rory (when Amy described Melody’s father to her it sounded as if she meant the Doctor, but hey, she meant the Last Centurian) – a hero to many? Perhaps. It’s not really sci-fi unless someone kills a family member, eh?

    I have another question. If Rory is still plastic/robot, how does his sperm work?

    #112459
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Well golly gee, PerformingMonkey, you sure are a big ol’ bag of kittens and rainbows, in’tcha?

    #112460
    Gwynnie
    Participant

    Why why WHY did I just spend the last two hours reading the Digital Spy DW forum? Some of the comments on there…

    #112461
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I have another question. If Rory is still plastic/robot, how does his sperm work?

    He’s not. He just has the memories.

    #112462
    Gwynnie
    Participant

    When did he become human again – Big Bang 2? Because he definitely still had gun-hands in the museum (after his 2000 year wait). I’m also wondering why Amy referred to Rory as “the last of his kind”, or was that just a cheap trick to lure is into thinking “OMG THE DOCTOR IS THE DAD”?

    #112463

    Rory is the last Roman Centurion is what she meant by last of his kind. There aren’t any Roman Centurions in the future. :)

    #112464

    P.S LET’S KILL PERFORMINGMONKEY!

    #112466
    si
    Participant

    Maybe I was just caught up in the sense of occasion, but when Amy was talking about Rory being hundreds of years old, being the last of his kind, and having a name but ‘our people’ knowing him by a different title, I *was* kind of thinking ‘WTF?’. Then I had a major ‘Of course she means Rory, you dozy fuckwit, Simon’ moment.

    #112467
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >was that just a cheap trick to lure is into thinking “OMG THE DOCTOR IS THE DAD”?

    Yes.

    >Then I had a major ‘Of course she means Rory, you dozy fuckwit, Simon’ moment.

    Oh look, it worked!

    #112468
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >our people’ knowing him by a different title

    I guessed near the end that she was referring to Rory, partly due to the fact they did a bit of similar misdirection in the earlier episodes when Rory overheard her remarks while incarcerated via her hand implant.

    I didn’t buy her comment about ‘our people knowing him’ though as it made Rory out to be much more famous than he ever was. The majority of people from the present day wouldn’t know anything about him. She was likely referring to those historical references, while his auton waited through the years, but even that’s a bit of a stretch.

    A minor nit for me to pick though.

    I’d say that “who River is” does have a connection to the Doctor… even if her Time Lord DNA was only caused by being conceived in the TARDIS, it means that he isn’t truly the last of his kind (again)…

    There’s Gennie/Jenny too! Although she might have died off-screen at this point…

    I am very curious at the time lord DNA though. It means that being a Time Lord (at least from a species if not from a vocational perspective) is as much to do with time-vortex mutation as genetic inheritance. And the fact The Doctor states that it happened with his people over billions of years means it’s not just something that happens when when a Galifreyan child is forced to look into the vortex. (Mind you I initially thought that the effect there was mental rather than physical. It drove The Master insane…)

    #112474
    Jo
    Participant

    it was quite easy to piece together the child in the orphanage, the picture of Amy with the baby, the space suit, the regeneration in the alleyway (where did that accent go though, River?)

    That’s assuming that the little girl in the alleyway is River. I’m not convinced it’s her.

    #112476
    Gwynnie
    Participant

    “Jenny who?” – oh, eyepatch lady! Sorry, that belongs in the Doctor Dwarf thread… but yes, forgot about Jenny! I hope she comes back… she was cute!

    I’m not sure about this whole “being conceived in the TARDIS gives you TimeLord DNA” either, it sounds perhaps as if the whole thing is a lie. I don’t even know whether to believe River.. she could easily have adopted her name for the very purpose of throwing the gang off the scent. Of course, some theories being thrown around the internet are that the baby IS the Doctor’s child, and that the Silence or whoever was responsible took his seed and planted it into Amy… of course, that would make the whole River-Doctor kissing thing very disturbing.

    I am thinking, though, that the future Doctor – finding out that the others saw him die – somehow stages his own death (clone, second Doctor, flesh, who knows) to ensure that what they think they saw remains the same – that’s why he has to invite them to see it again… that way a paradox isn’t created, they just witnessed a false murder all along and he’s still safe. Hmmmm…. it all reminds me a little of Stasis Leak though…
    Hologram Rimmer – “in 3 million years, you’ll be dead”
    Alive Rimmer – “Will I REALLY?”
    So the “present” Doctor only has 200 more years to live… oh no… that’s more than most of us get! (Also means he stays in Matt Smith incarnation for a looong time!)

    #112477
    Gwynnie
    Participant

    Oops, posted twice.

    #112478
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I can’t help but feel underwhelmed by this first half of the series, and I lay the blame squarely at the Gangers story which was so incredibly dreary that it gave the Silurians 2-parter from last year a run for its money. Zero originality and a thoroughly daft conclusion ( we *could* get in the TARDIS and escape, but it would be neater if we just killed ourselves…yay!)

    Did this dullathon really need to be 2 parts? This series was crying out for another standalone episode like The Doctor’s Wife. Hell, even anticipating a throwaway episode like the Pirates gubbins is better than being half-way through a 2 parter in which you’re not invested.

    A Good Man Goes to War redeeemed things by having a terrific pace and being a ton of fun. I must admit to being a little concerned that this arc won’t be tidied up in the most concise way possible (The Big Bang was very entertaining but it didn’t make much sense) but there’s a whole heap of questions to keep us occupied for the next few months.

    #112479

    I really liked all of this half, except for the pirate one, and even then I didn’t HATE that episode. I’ve been as satisfied as I could be with half a series. And NOTHING could make the Silurian 2-parter seem exciting. NOTHING!

    #112481
    Gwynnie
    Participant

    Not even if they’d started using those tongues on each other?

    #112482
    Ridley
    Participant

    So the “present” Doctor only has 200 more years to live… oh no… that’s more than most of us get! (Also means he stays in Matt Smith incarnation for a looong time!)

    I’m not an expert on ‘classic’ Who but hasn’t the Doctor pretty much spent the majority of his life as William Hartnell?

    I’d like to see an episode that addresses the Doctor burning up his regenerations in a relatively short span of time, if so.

    #112484
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    (The Big Bang was very entertaining but it didn’t make much sense)

    Y’know who says things like this? People who don’t pay attention.

    #112485
    Dave
    Participant

    >Rory is the last Roman Centurion is what she meant by last of his kind. There aren’t any Roman Centurions in the future. :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWx4bbltTyA&feature=player_detailpage#t=82s

    #112486
    Jo
    Participant
    #112487
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >Y’know who says things like this? People who don’t pay attention.

    Oh fuck off.

    #112489
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    He’s right, though.

    #112492
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    There’s an interesting article on DoG at the moment about whether the recent cliffhanger was a “game-changer” and what actually constitutes one.

    I’d say a game-changer is where the Doctor can freely cross his own timestream without consequence, and thus get out of just about any trap laid for him using the timey-wimey get-out clause. It’s a dangerous precedent for the show as it robs suspense from the show.The cliffhanger of The Pandorica Opens was a cheat for this reason.

    Also, did the events of The Big Bang actually happen? Does Amy remember her further meetings with the Doctor as a young child? If she does, doesn’t this change her character somewhat?

    Reset buttons are shite. RTD got grief for it, so I don’t see why Moffat should be immune when the result is the same as The Last of the Timelords”.

    #112493
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    All valid arguments – if ones that I don’t agree with – but they don’t exactly constitute “didn’t make much sense”, though, do they?

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