Dr Who Series 6

[Jonsmad]

Begins…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00fxf06

And I’m wondering if the presidents name is Adam Klaus-Clinton.

Topic

[Ridley]

Seeing Amy and Rory…did anyone else think, if only for a second, that it was more like Karen being asked for her autograph? I must admit I breathed a sigh of relief with the perfume poster reveal.

I think that was the idea.

[genericnerdyusername]

> (the worst of Moffat’s tenure??)

That would be Cold Blood.

[si]

I’ve liked all of Gareth Roberts’ scripts. I *loved* The Unicorn and The Wasp. Don’t know why it (or, indeed, Gareth) gets people moaning.

[Seb Patrick]

Planet. Of. The. Dead.

[Somebody]

> I’ve liked all of Gareth Roberts’ scripts. I *loved* The Unicorn and The Wasp. Don’t know why it… gets people moaning.

Because it was probably the most out-and-out BORING show of the entire New Series (not quite the worst, but the likes of The Last of the Time Lords crashed and burned. TU&TW was a complete damp squib).

[pfm]

> That would be Cold Blood.

Actually, yeah.

[ChrisM]

> When did the sonic screwdriver start shooting green laser beams?

Some time in the last 200 years? Been a long time for the Doctor since The God Complex

My question was more rhetorical really, although that’s certainly a believable explanation.

Thing is, it’s not needed. Nothing the sonic screwdriver did in the episode was outside it’s usual capacity, except the fact we saw a visual beam. And I’m sure, even now, everything was still meant to be sound based, (the Doctor even drew emphasis to the nature of the device in the episode) the beam was there just to look cool. “Oh, look the doctor is shooting lasers at the baddies!” That’s not the Doctor’s thing.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not really a big deal. Like complaining about the packaging for a present, maybe, and I did like the episode overall (bad resolution aside). The fact remains, the Doctor generally doesn’t shoot guns (okay he did shoot one in that Angels episode but not at anyone directly) but he does use tools.

[Somebody]

I think it’s more bothersome because it won’t happen consistently from now on – witness RTD’s comment in Writer’s Tale after rewatching Rose that they could never have afforded to keep doing the haze effect the sonic gave off in use during that episode. Same thing here, I imagine.

[si]

> Planet. Of. The. Dead

Fair point.

[genericnerdyusername]

> Planet. Of. The. Dead

Not Moffat’s tenure.

But yes.

[Seb Patrick]

I was replying to Si, who said he couldn’t understand why Roberts gets such a bad rep.

[genericnerdyusername]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Carry on.

[si]

> I was replying to Si, who said he couldn’t understand why Roberts gets such a bad rep.

Yeah, it’s not a great episode, is it? I’d actually forgotten about that – I’d certainly forgotten Gareth Roberts wrote it – which kind of says everything.

[Jonathan Capps]

Just watched this. So… Cybermen are made made by putting people into a metal suit, now?

Definitely an enjoyable episode, though, and a frigging marvel compared to Roberts’ other episodes.

[ChrisM]

I’m pretty sure these are the original Cybermen despite how they look. (Well not original, original since I think they’re mainly converted shop-folk, but I think the technology is the alien Mondasian variety rather than the parallel universe jobs.) Didn’t those ones always convert the entire body? (I haven’t seen that many of the original episodes so I don’t know for sure, but I remember Old Who fans making a fuss when the Cybus cybermen turned out to be brains in mech-bodies.)

Mind you even the Cybus Cybermen started doing total physical conversions too when they’re resources started to run low, if we believe that Cyberwoman episode of Torchwood. As these guys are in a similar boat* I suppose this makes sense.

*Or ship. :)

[Jonathan Capps]

If Corden had been converted, at least that would’ve explained away the fat Cybermen of the 80s.

[Somebody]

Doctor Who Confidential’s been efficiency-savinged: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/sep/28/doctor-who-confidential-axed

[genericnerdyusername]

If anyone doesn’t know/is bothered, there’s this:

http://twitter.com/#!/SaveDWC

[Seb Patrick]

Firstly, I have absolutely no time for arguments that go “They’re axing the thing I like, they should be axing that other thing I don’t like!” It’s the same as the people during the Save 6Music campaign (which I supported) who said they should get rid of BBC3 instead. No. It doesn’t work like that. So whether or not BBC3 are keeping “Young, Dumb and Living off Mum” shouldn’t be relevant to a discussion about DWC.

Secondly… well, are there any compelling reasons for keeping it? I can’t even see one given in the text of the petition. If they can’t be bothered to come up with a reason, why should we be bothered? Okay, DWC served a purpose in the early days, but it was long past the point of having any real use or value and was little more than hollow cheerleading. And the BBC have to make cutbacks – so if it’s a case of cutting the budget of Who, or losing DWC entirely… well, I know which I’d prefer.

[Pete Part Three]

Why are they axing the wonderful Doctor Who Confidential but continuing to make that piece of shit Doctor Who?

Madness.

[Somebody]

> And the BBC have to make cutbacks – so if it’s a case of cutting the budget of Who, or losing DWC entirely… well, I know which I’d prefer

Who’s from the BBC1 budget (plus assorted monies from BBC Worldwide), DWC’s from the BBC3 budget (plus whatever 2|entertain paid to put the Cutdowns on the boxsets).

Money saved from axing DWC thus won’t go to the Who budget, it’ll go to other BBC3 shows (including, yes, “Young, Dumb and Living Off Mum”).

[Pete Part Three]

BBC THREE IS NO LONGER INTERESTED IN THE TYPE OF AUDIENCE DOCTOR WHO CONFIDENTIAL ATTRACTS.

[genericnerdyusername]

Wait, so Young, Dumb and Living Off Mum isn’t considered a classic piece of television history?

[hummingbird]

Just watched Closing Time. That was a bit crap, wasn’t it?

[genericnerdyusername]

Why?

[hummingbird]

I was just very under-whelmed by it all. It had some good moments, but over all the story felt under-developed and clunky. It seemed as if it was just a filler ep leading up to the scenes with River at the end. I think it’s the weakest of the series.

[si]

The first half of the series was a bit up and down – TIA/DOTM: Up; COTBS: Down; TDW: Up (and then some); TRF/TAP: Down (apart from the last minute or so); AGMGTW: Up (though not as high as it should be).

The second half has, for me, been the strongest run of consistantly good, enjoyable episodes since the show’s return. Sure, they’ve all got weak points if they’re over scrutinised, but CT was still (insert suitably large number here) times better than, for example, The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood or Curse of the Black Spot.

So, er, yeah. What were we on about?

[Pete Part Three]

The best run for me remains Human Nature/Family of Blood, Blink and Utopia. The tail end of Season 4 would give it a run for its money, were it not for including shitty Turn Left.

[genericnerdyusername]

I guess I agree, although I think Curse of the Black Spot was the weakest and I still enjoyed the episode.

My speculation: The TARDIS has something to do with how the Doctor ends up not dying. I only think this because of something I read that other people may not have though, so I won’t elaborate in case it’s a spoiler for people. But I definitely think the TARDIS plays a major part of it. If I’m wrong, then everyone pretend I said “the Doctor that dies is a ganger.” (this is not the possible spoiler that I read, it’s other people’s speculations) At least then I’m wrong with millions of other people, especially those on the website where I read the possible spoiler.

Did I make ANY sense in this post?

[Pete Part Three]

If it’s a ganger, that’ll be lame. They said it wasn’t a clone or whatever in The Impossible Astronaut so if it is I won’t be amused. In fact I probably won’t watch the show again for months.

This is not to say that I have any expectation that the climax of all this madness will be satisfying. I’m bored of reset buttons and garbled explanation that make bollock-all sense as it makes the show seem like Star Trek : Voygager and yet I doubt there’s any other way to resolve this.

Moffat’s revels to much in creation confusion for no need. Dangling question are great but I watched TIA,DOTM earlier this week and that opening of DOTM is just…pointless, makes no sense and serves no purpose other than to make the audience go “wha…??”

[genericnerdyusername]

I’ve read on the net that the end of the series leaves the characters “in line with Moffat’s vision”. So I remain optimistic that there won’t be a reset button pushed, though no doubt if there isn’t there will be tweets about how the Doctor should just show up, fix a problem, and leave again since the show is getting too big for its breeches. I had a small argument with some dude on twitter about that. I think the show should do as many interesting things as possible, tweak the format, experiment with ways of telling stories etc. I guess it’s just a shame that it can’t really do it TO THE MAX, being such a mainstream show which needs to attract the casual viewer more than a die-hard fan who will watch the show whether they hate the new story lines/Doctor/etc.

Also, I’ve just dug out some Dodgem Logic magazines, and it got me to thinking what a modern episode of Doctor Who by Alan Moore would be like. After all, Neil Gaiman’s episode was amazing. Not that I think AM would actually do it, mind.

[Ben Paddon]

Confidential is made up of montages of retakes set to terrible pop music. We seldom ever get a proper behind-the-scenes look at anything. It’s a bit crap, to be honest. I’m pleased to see it go. Maybe we’ll get some decent DVD/Bluray extras come series 7 in its place.

Meanwhile, I decided to George Lucas a scene from the classic series. I made a handful of extremely minor changes, but I think they really make the scene in question pop. Check out wot I dun.

[ChrisM]

One way the story could continue without a reset button:

Possible spoilers, but I’m extrapolating this purely on the episodes I’ve seen so far, not leaked stuff on the internet.

The doctor actually dies…. and the ganger takes on his role instead. Considering the Tardis has some mysterious power to stabilise the biology of gangers he could be functionally identical to the original although I’m not sure that would include the regenerations. Their DNA would still be different surely, or maybe the bio-gunk copies that too.

Mind you, I think that would smeg fans off even more than the reset buttons since technically the Doctor who has existed for all these decades (centuries in show time) would be technically dead for good.

Of course he could transfer his consciousness to the ganger too, so it’s not just a copy of his mind. It would actually BE his mind. I know Moffat doesn’t believe in the soul but there’s forerunners of this in both the ganger episode and Gaiman’s one with the Doctor’s Wife. I think many fans would accept that better.

[Pete Part Three]

>Mind you, I think that would smeg fans off even more than the reset buttons since technically the Doctor who has existed for all these decades (centuries in show time) would be technically dead for good.

Well, yeah. I’ve only been watching for six years (discounting the TV Movie) and that would piss me off. It’s like Rimmer in VIII. He’s not “our” Rimmer.

[genericnerdyusername]

I also have a backup theory that Jim the Fish saves the day.

[pfm]

There’s no way it’s gonna be anything other than his death being faked. If it involves the ganger Doctor then yes it WILL be disappointing, but I would accept it as the Doctor’s last ditch attempt to save his own skin. The key is making the Silence and the Tardis crew believe that he is truly dead.

[genericnerdyusername]

Bit disappointing anyway.

So who the fuck is Jim the Fish?

[Pete Part Three]

It’s not that I didn’t find that interesting and very watchable, but I also found it to be a chaotic mess full of incomprehensible exposition, inconsequential action sequences and yet more fucking foreshadowing. There was five minutes of story in this, the rest was just Moffat pissing about.

RTD had his faults, but 3 of his 4 season finales were better than this, and his other (season three) was just about on a par with this.

Moffat needs to reign it in. His best episode in the last year remains A Christmas Carol and three of his supporting team have shown him up this season.

Jim the Fish was mentioned in TIA btw.

[genericnerdyusername]

They said that they (the Doctor and River) has met him by TIA. But surely the Doctor wouldn’t have seen River again since LKH in his timeline.

Or am I hopelessly confused?

I think I am anyway, to be honest…

My gripe with TWoRS is pretty much the same as yours; a lack of actual revelations and too much “fucking foreshadowing”. This is compounded by the fact that we’re only getting half a series next year. I was okay with the (sort of) anti climatic first series because I assumed that the following series would actually have something more interesting happen.

Although I’m not going to rag on Moffat, seeing as I’ve loved everything else he’s done, especially Sherlock and Jekyll. I genuinely respect his talent, even if he has left me annoyed this evening.

[Nick R]

Whenever someone mentions Jim the Fish, it can’t help but conjure up images of Bob the Killer Goldfish…

I’m seeing a bit of a pattern to the openings of Moffat’s finales/mid-series finales: disorientate us by presenting us with radically different versions of Earth (the sky with no stars in “The Big Bang”; the mashed-up history in this) and skipping quickly between locations (the “20,000 light-years away” jump in “A Good Man Goes to War”; the Doctor’s detective trail in this). It’s still a formula that’s working for me, but the very fact I’ve spotted it means I hope the same structure isn’t used for the next big episode.

Not quite convinced by Amy and Rory and River’s memories of the mashup timeline carrying across to this one, in the same way I wasn’t quite sure about Rory retaining his memories of a thousand years spent guarding the Pandorica.

Also: seems a bit odd to ask how long before the Silence break in and reply “a couple of minutes” when time’s not passing, doesn’t it? ;-)

a lack of actual revelations and too much “fucking foreshadowing”

True, things like the eyepatches being related to Silence memories and the question being “Doctor who?” had been part of many fans’ speculation.

So most of those “revelations” turned out to be secondary to the enjoyment that came from things like the Indiana Jones sequence, the Doctor’s brief “You can’t rewrite a fixed point in time, who told you that?” objection before the universe disintegrated around them, the wi-fi gag, Live Chess, the increasing tally marks on the Doctor’s arm during his talk with Churchill, and the Brigadier mention. And things like that were very entertaining!

As for the foreshadowing, I’ve no problem with storylines bleeding across series. But maybe it’s felt a bit artificial to keep them carrying on so long: “Silence will fall” was introduced all the way back in episode Fnarg.01 (and so was the TARDIS explosion, IIRC).

Also, some of the structuring has been unbalanced during this series. I think the series was hurt by having the very similar “Night Terrors” and “The God Complex” (exit-less settings, childhood fears theme) so close together. Having those three mostly stand-alone tales in a row also drew attention to the apparent ease with which Amy and Rory seemed to accept they’d never be able to raise their daughter, which was a big issue for many viewers. That wouldn’t have been as much of a problem if there hadn’t been a mid-series break, so that “A Good Man Goes to War” and “Let’s Kill Hitler” could have been closer to the finale.

[Somebody]

> They said that they (the Doctor and River) has met him by TIA. But surely the Doctor wouldn’t have seen River again since LKH in his timeline.
> Or am I hopelessly confused?

The latter. It’s been a couple of hundred years since LKH for the Doctor, and take a look at the diary scene from TIA to see just how many times the Doctor’s met River since then…

[genericnerdyusername]

The important thing is that I’m not ALWAYS wrong.

[pfm]

> There was five minutes of story in this, the rest was just Moffat pissing about.

‘Time of Angels/Flesh & Stone’ aside, that’s different to any other Moffat episode how??

As soon as the ‘previously…’ showed the Tesselector it was instantly blatant that this was gonna be the explanation. I was thinking earlier that if the ganger Doctor was going to be used they would have to flashback to it, seeing as half the audience would probably have forgotten about that 2-parter. So showing the Tesselector clip fron LKH, as well as them showing up again early in the finale itself, wasn’t really a signpost, more like a fucking billboard indicating how he cheats his death.

Some awful direction in this episode. At least The Big Bang hit all the right emotional beats. TWoRS managed to come across as pretty lifeless considering the build-up from TIA, the constant harping on about the Doctor’s death, the growing realisation of how connected River is to the rest of them etc. Ah well….

One thing. Nobody…nobody…and I mean NOBODY, not one person could have predicted that the Doctor’s line ‘it’s time’ immediately followed the revelation that the Brig had passed away! Also,that the hearing of that news had quite a large effect on the Doctor’s decision to accept his own ‘death’. In a way I find it somewhat callous of Moffat to throw the fate of that classic character in with the rest of his madcap bollocks and to use it as a device rather than a dedication to the Brig and Courtney. I’m gonna shutup……….

[Pete Part Three]

Just realised what it reminded me of. “Breaking the Magician’s Code”, only less satisfying cos it had a shitoad of padding that did not really matter. Who cares what happens in a timeline where nothing has any consequence? And that was 95% of the episode.

This whole arc was Moffat thinking “What would fuck with everyone’s head?” and then trying to rationalise it. It didn’t work. Thank god for wonderful episodes like The Doctor’s Wife and The Girl Who Waited

When the thing at stake is the Doctor’s life, no one is going to be invested because we’re all looking for a get out clause. And when the get-out clause takes two minutes of explanation and THAT”S IT, it’s really not worthy of our time, What actually happened in 45 minutes that affected the status quo? Very little, because it happened in an abandoned timeline.

Is this really the same guy that gave us Blink, The Girl in the Fireplace and Silence in the Library? Really? What the hell happened?

Seriously. Slate me all you want for “not understanding it”(cue Ben soonish) but this depressed me more than “pray for the Doctor” in Last of the Timelords.

Urgh.

>Time of Angels/Flesh & Stone’ aside, that’s different to any other Moffat episode how??

I don’t know what you mean. Every other Moffat story before the tail end of Season Five (even The Beast Below which I thought was piss-poor) had stuff happening of consequence. Blink is incredibly plotted. The Doctor Dances is a wonderful idea, slowly revealed. The Girl in the Fireplace is near-perfect. Beginning, middle and end. Is that too much to ask for? Not a mystery in Episode one, followed by 40 minutes of bullshit before a five minute explanation in episode 13.

[si]

Is Jim the Fish Billy’s brother?

[steven87gill]

Time disintegrating was too similar to the finale last year. The presentation of the event was different, but the basic idea was a notch too similar for two series finales in succession. However the timey wimey in this was easier to wrap my head around than last years, which if I’m perfectly honest….I still haven’t really got.
By the same token, the skewed timeline was more or less just a way to drag out the resolution. My guess is that if the skewed timeline subplot wasn’t there then there would be more people on internet forums going ”ZOMG THAT WAS SO OBVIOUS I GUESSED THAT AGES AGO”. So the Moff came up with a clever ‘bells and whistles’ way of distracting the audience so that when the reveal comes of how the doctor actually escapes, you’re still scratching you head over the tangent timeline to realise the resolution wasn’t as surprising as you first thought.

And actually, compared to the reaction the River Song reveal got, it seems to have worked a treat.

Believe it or not though, I .really. enjoyed this finale.

Looking forward to the Xmas special.

[ChrisM]

It got a bit sappy at the end, but I enjoyed it a lot. The mashed up universe was messy (but then it was meant to be) and didn’t entirely make sense if you analyse it, but… it was a lot of fun. I loved the steam trains in a modern setting. Not sure why so many cars would be lifted by hot air balloons but I enjoyed the imagery.

And I loved the resolution. Sure it was signposted earlier. I wondered when we saw the Doctor’s interview with the Tesselector if that would be used, but as he left through the door and it wasn’t revealed until later that he came back, my attention was diverted so he conclusion ended up a surprise after all.

[Tarka Dal]

Excellent solid episode. Satisfying revelations. Great jokes. Lovely plotting. A few carrots dangled for Series 7 and maybe even the 50th anniversary.

There’s probably a case to be argued for Moffat-fatigue. His writing has it’s staples, just as RTD had his and indeed every writer ever always had done.

Luckily for a show about an alien time-traveller who loves humans. The Moff writes great humans, great aliens and flamboyant fun use of time-travel.

I thought last year’s ending was damn near perfect, I prefer it to this particular finale, but pound for pound it’s probably been the best series of New Who.

[si]

I originally thought the ending had more than a hint of cheddar about it, but Moffat has stated before that he wanted to put the mystery back into the Doctor, and what better way to realise that than with that ending and that question? Not quite OMFG amazing, but excellent stuff nevertheless, and, I think, a hell of a lot cleverer than you realise on the first viewing.

In other matters – Confidential and The Axe. Who else thinks that that final(?) Instalment was one of the best we’ve ever seen? That River Timeline was exceptional. I want to know who wrote that linking narration – was it Moffat, or just a DWC Production team member?

[pfm]

> I don’t know what you mean.

Sry, I meant the episodes during his tenure as showrunner.

> but as he left through the door and it wasn’t revealed until later that he came back,

I’m still not sure whether I like that… Though I absolutely love the pure glee of the Doctor as we see him inside the Tesselecta. He’s never been more happy with himself than when River spies him through the eye!

One thing I’m calling for series 7 – Amy and Rory leaving the Tardis WITH baby Melody whom they DO bring up! Somehow it will work out. This is the only reason Amy would leave the Doctor (without them being ripped apart, and we’ve already seen that so it would be boring to repeat it), for her baby.

[Author]

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