Dr Who Series 6

[Jonsmad]

Begins…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00fxf06

And I’m wondering if the presidents name is Adam Klaus-Clinton.

Topic

[Ben Paddon]

I remember that now you mention it. I’d like to have known how though. Another Tardis? A Captain Jack kind of time vortex manipulator? I don’t doubt she can do it, she got there despite not taking Rory’s offer after all.

The same way River showed up at the end of AGMGtW – she had a Vortex Manipulator.

Do pay attention, 007.

[ChrisM]

The one she nobbled off the blue man? (I think it was the Blue man it was a good while ago.) Just be nice to have seen a small indication of it as these episodes occur earlier in her timeline, so to speak, i.e before she got that particular device.

Yeah, I know she no doubt had it taken away when being searched after each break out and had to grab another on her next escape but…

Oh never mind. It’s not a big deal, really.

[Jonsmad]

“and it appears that you CAN stick one on the leader of the Third Reich.”

Nice one, hummingbird. :-)

[Ben Paddon]

The one she nobbled off the blue man? (I think it was the Blue man it was a good while ago.)

That depends on when “Good Man” takes place in River’s personal timeline. At the very least she has a Vortex Manipulator and has had for most of the series so far.

[genericnerdyusername]

I’m really looking forward to Mark Gatiss’ episode next week. It looks really creepy! :D

[ChrisM]

Yeah. There’s something about dolls and ornaments and statues I find creepy. If I’d seen Blink!* as a kid, that would have really freaked me out. That white doll’s face… brrr.

*Yeah, I know different writer, but the same applies.

[Ridley]

First time I’ve been convinced that Amy actually chose Rory over the Doctor.

Now I just need to be convinced that they’re fine with not being there for Melody’s upbringing. :p

[si]

Anyone else think this episode should’ve been called ‘Rory’s Choice’? Me and my sister both thought so, as did Who writer/author Jonathan Morris. Just saying.

[Tanya Jones]

Would have been a bit of a spoiler, surely?

[Somebody]

Rory never had a choice – not a real one, at any rate.

Firstly, the die was cast irrevocably* when the Doctor lied about being able to take both Amys and so tricked the older one into helping to bring past-Amy to the present. After that, it was impossible for the younger Amy to become the specific old-Amy we saw in the episode and only the Tardis (with much complaint!) shielded the older Amy from blinking out straight away.

Secondly, to guild the lily, the young Amy was knocked out and didn’t regain consciousness until after the Tardis left – meaning that if they’d tried to take the older one, the younger one would have been killed by the handbots’ antibiotics as soon as they turfed her out the Tardis, leaving no younger Amy to become ANY old Amy.

And finally, Rory didn’t make the choice. He was about to open the door and damn the consequences until Old Amy gave in and told him not to.

[*Not the first divergence – the first two Amys conversation apparently went differently for the older Amy when she was on the other side – but that was Xmas Carol-style minor changes rather than the “temporal earthquake” of pulling youngAmy forward in a way they couldn’t undo.]

[si]

Much as I loved this episode (and I did, I absolutely adored it), I have to say, there is absolutely loads to get nit-picky and pedantic about if you think about things for too long.
For example: What has Amy been eating for 36 years? How have her clothes lasted her so well with barely any wear and tear? Has she had other things to wear while she washed those clothes? Has she worn the same underwear for nearly forty years? How has she managed not to go grey? What has she cleaned her teeth with? How has her hair managed to stay looking so good? How has she kept in shape? Where has she kept count of how long she’s been there? And how has she managed it without any worry balls to grind?

Oh, ignore me. It’s 5am, and I can’t sleep. I’m just rambling.

[Ben Paddon]

What has Amy been eating for 36 years?

This week in “People Who Haven’t Paid Attention To the Episode”…

[si]

Sorry, like I said, it was 5am. My head was racing and I had toothache. Like I (also) said, ignore me.

[pfm]

Old Amy. I still would. And so would Rory…he had no problem with his wife being in her mid 50s :D.

[si]

*Late* 50’s, by my book. 58, I think.

[Somebody]

> Old Amy. I still would. And so would Rory…he had no problem with his wife being in her mid 50s :D.

OLD AMY: Controls are stuck. They’ve locked them from outside.
RORY: Can you unlock them?
OLD AMY: Yeah, give me a minute and your cutest smile. That’s the one.
RORY: Can you stop flirting with me! You’re old enough to be…
OLD AMY: I’ve known you my whole life. How many games of Doctors And Nurses?
RORY: Ssh!
OLD AMY: Don’t get coy now.

> *Late* 50’s, by my book. 58, I think.

Hard to say. If she was 7 at Easter 1996, she *should* be 22 in April 2011 (when they get off the bus in Utah). That gets screwed up by all the time she’s spent travelling with the Doctor though – months between the 25th & 26th of June 2011 alone! Then the time after Utah, which includes most of her pregnancy, followed by at least some time at home between AGMGtW and LKH and an indeterminate amount of travelling thereafter.

Probably safest to add at least a year overall, which would make her 59 (maybe even 60) after “36 years, three months, four days of solitary confinement”.

[ChrisM]

And finally, Rory didn’t make the choice. He was about to open the door and damn the consequences until Old Amy gave in and told him not to.

Sure he did. She certainly influenced his decision, but she didn’t force him to do anything.

Your other points are good, although I’m not entirely sure The Doctor did know bringing both along wouldn’t work. I know his reaction at the end seemed to suggest so, but his murmuring to the Tardis “What did that nasty Amy do to you”, made me wonder if he had thought it possible before hand, albeit I’m sure he always thought it unlikely. Of course he could have just been referring to the stabilising of their present situation until young Amy was brought on board…

Anyway. A great episode.

>What has Amy been eating for 36 years?

This week in “People Who Haven’t Paid Attention To the Episode”…

The compressed time thing perhaps explains the lack of hunger although 36 years is a good deal longer than two weeks, so I’d have thought she’d have gotten the munchies at some point in that time. (Compressed time doesn’t mean ‘no time’.) I don’t have a problem assuming she managed to raid some supplies in that time though. She was able to make a sonic-screwdriver, sorry, sonic- probe in that time after all.

If compressed time is the only explanation for her needing no food, then surely she wouldn’t have aged that much either? Then again, as old though she looked, she looked younger than her mid fifties. In fact she didn’t really look that old at all.

[pfm]

> She was able to make a sonic-screwdriver, sorry, sonic- probe in that time after all.

If this had been a Moffat episode you’ve gotta wonder whether he would have been able to resist a gag about the probe. As in…well. she has been alone for 36 years…

[ChrisM]

If this had been a Moffat episode you’ve gotta wonder whether he would have been able to resist a gag about the probe. As in…well. she has been alone for 36 years…

I confess my mind went to a naughty place when she was discussing her ‘Rory-bot’ with Rory. Especially looking at her delivery of ‘a pet’. I think I was seeing way too much into it though.

By the way, I’ve seen complaints concerning Karren Gillan’s acting in Doctor Who (not that I agree with them). I thought her portrayal of the two Amys was great this episode.

[genericnerdyusername]

> If this had been a Moffat episode you’ve gotta wonder whether he would have been able to resist a gag about the probe. As in…well. she has been alone for 36 years…

I don’t understand, is this a dildo joke?

[Pete Part Three]

It’s a dildo reference, I’m not sure if it qualifies as a “joke”.

[pfm]

Look…why do you think River’s always got that big smile on her face. She’s clearly been ‘sonic’d’ by her Doctor on a regular basis.

[Somebody]

The Girl Who’s Waiting, there.

[si]

‘The Girl Who Waited’ was brilliant.

‘The God Complex’ was FUCKING PHENOMENAL.

[Ben Paddon]

I agree with Si.

[genericnerdyusername]

Me too!

[cliff]

classic doctor who story…more please

[Ridley]

Just me bored by it then? Dang.

[Seb Patrick]

I have no respect whatsoever for people who try to make stories out of overnight, on-broadcast ratings in the current climate.

Every episode of Doctor Who still hits between 7 and 8 million with timeshifted viewers. So the fact that “only” 5 million people watched an episode live is an absolute non-story.

[si]

Re: The Girl Who Waited.

> *Late* 50’s, by my book. 58, I think.

> Probably safest to add at least a year overall, which would make her 59 (maybe even 60)

The new DWM has a feature about TGWW, and both Benjamin Cook (of DWM) and Karen Gillan refer to ‘Old’ Amy as being “a 57-year-old”. So I guess that’s that.

[Somebody]

Odd. She was seven as of “Easter” 1996 (Easter Sunday was the 7th of April, so that’ll do for a baseline even if it wasn’t set on that exact date; 1996 comes from “14 years” before Amy & Rory’s wedding, which was established as 26/06/2010 and that she was seven at the time is repeatedly mentioned).

Then the whole “Doctor dies in Utah” business happens on the 22nd of April 2011 (the shooting itself/cremation/etc actually occurs in the early hours of the 23rd of April UK time)

Then we have “all summer” pass between A Good Man Goes To War and Let’s Kill Hitler. Call that the 27th of August, since Moffat likes stuff happening on the date of transmission (Amy & Rory’s wedding, Impossible Astronaut).

So she’s no less than 22 as of LKH, even without counting her “months” in the Tardis, three months in 1969 between Impossible Astronaut & Day of the Moon, etc.

Old Amy then claims to have been stuck in Twostreams for “36 years, three months, four days of solitary confinement.”

22 + 36 = 58.

There’s no way you can get 57. And the three months, plus four+ months between her birthday and LKH, plus three months between TIA & DotM and a significant number of “months” in the Tardis on top of that makes 59 at least plausible. Someone’s not been doing their sums right at DWM :)

[si]

Somebody – I came up with 58, too. :/

[Somebody]

Yeah, I saw that, which is why I targeted it at DWM!

Those dates were all mentioned/shown repeatedly, so there’s really no excuse.

[srmcd1]

…I have had the *loveliest* time reading this ongoing debate about how old the Old Amy was, as if it were important to the story. Kudos.

[Dave]

…I have had the *loveliest* time reading srmcd1’s bit of smarm about how old the Old Amy was, as if it were important to the debate. Kudos.

[si]

Anyhoo…

[pfm]

Only half the number of episodes next year so maybe half the amount of whinging…? :P

Btw, Moffat sooooooo wishes he’d written Night Terrors, The Girl Who Waited and The God Complex, aka the best consecutive trilogy of episodes in aeons.

Toby Whithouse for Moffat’s successor? Presumably Being Human will be over by the time the job comes up…

[Somebody]

One of those eps is not like the others, and it’s Night Terrors. Better than the previous couple of Gatiss eps, perhaps, but that’s not saying much.

[genericnerdyusername]

I still rate Blink above all those episodes. PUT TOGETHER.

[genericnerdyusername]

Although thinking about it, maybe The God Complex just beats it…

So basically, I’ll shut up.

[ChrisM]

They’re both good, but I think I’d rate Blink! over The God Complex. I’ll admit that’s largely due to novelty of following different characters and the fact I find the Weeping Angels rather scary.

[si]

Gatiss episodes: The Unquiet Dead still tops it for me. Victory of The Daleks is not a bad episode at all, but would’ve worked better as a two parter (with the Daleks revealing themselves/revealing new paradigm at the end of episode one). Night Terrors was great, but a bit of a rushed conclusion (I love you, The End).

So there. That’s me.

[Pete Part Three]

Night Terrors was heavily flawed by well-executed. The Girl Who Waited was fantastic. The God Complex was a teensy weensy notch below. All of them better than Let’s Kill Hitler which mistook exposition and chaos for storytelling.

But Blink? Well, that’s the best thing on TV in the last ten years bar nothing.

[pfm]

> But Blink? Well, that’s the best thing on TV in the last ten years bar nothing.

As far as one-shot episodes go you could be right. It IS a tad overrated though….:P

[ChrisM]

I liked the latest episode, Closing Time.

Spoilers:

Silly walk aside, I like the Cybermen although they’re becoming a bit rubbish. And the cyber-mat was good fun. I also rather enjoyed the tone of the episode.

When did the sonic screwdriver start shooting green laser beams? On one hand it was kinda cool but I think they should have left it as a sound-based tool. You can use it to short circuitry and even fuse electronics (which he did) but all by sound waves.

I really didn’t like the love-reverses-cyberisation-process*-feedback-loop- resolution though. Or the cyberman who hit the doctor just having to have a knackered arm. Really? He could have escaped death in plenty other more interesting ways, I think. I know it established that these cybermen were not at their best but I think that could have been provided by a visual inspection or scan.

To leave on a more positive note, it was still a fun story. And that bit at the very end gave me a chill in a good way. I’m not so sure a bunch of kids on the street would be that interested in a geeky looking bloke in a cowboy hat though. Assuming they don’t actually watch Doctor Who. (Maybe it’s a documentary in their reality? Heh.)

*or whatever the process of becoming is called

[Somebody]

> When did the sonic screwdriver start shooting green laser beams?

Some time in the last 200 years? Been a long time for the Doctor since The God Complex (although technically the last time we saw him before this episode, chronologically speaking, was in the pre-credits clips/references of “The Impossible Astronaut”, “waving from history”.)

[And it looks like a while’s passed for Amy & Rory too, for her to start a new career modelling a perfume with a suspiciously-familiar name & tagline…]

Incidentally, has the Doctor ever looked quite as… well, pathetic as he did here:

Seriously, hiding from his old friends – who are unlikely to reject him – like that. That bit was just depressing…

[Pete Part Three]

The framing device of this episode seemed all very reminiscent of the end of David Tennant’s tenure, when 10, faced with his impending demise, went off on lots of unseen adventures to delay the inevitable.

At least, this season, we’ve had a glimpse of the future by means of timey-wimey nonsense rather than an implausible prophecy given by a batty, yet human, old woman (“He will knock four times…”) but we all know this is leading up to a rather big con and unlike the, admittedly great, realisation of the prophecy in The End of Time, we know Matt Smith’s not going anywhere.

Enough with the foreshadowing already. Bad Wolf was fine as it was subtly hidden away so it was only visible to the hardcore, but each successive year has just cranked up the foreshadowing to tiresome lengths.

Anyway, Closing Time. I can’t see many Cybermen fans being particularly enamoured with the way these guys were sidelined, but in my limited experience of them, they’re a bit crap so that’s no bad thing. Unfortunately, plot A did little for me as it was essentially The Lodger all over again. Twatty Corden (doing his usual shtick) suffers insecurities, The Doctor swoops in and sorts him out. The baby stuff was cute enough, but it was all rather meandering and slightly annoying in the way it kept on reminding us to WATCH NEXT WEEK BECAUSE THAT’S WHEN THE IMPORTANT STUFF HAPPENS.

And that final scene? Surprisingly clunky.

[Nick R]

I enjoyed The Lodger, but this episode was disappointing. “Stormageddon” was funny, but repeated a few times too often. Jokes like that work better in small doses – without a substantial plot, a whole episode of that wackiness just became tedious and irritating, especially with things like Craig’s predictably cringeworthy talk to the lingerie shopper (probably the low point of the episode).

Slightly too much of Steven Moffat’s Gay Agenda ;) too – jokes about “oh, we’re not a couple” mistaken identity are ancient, so if you’re going to write one into your episode it had better be very good – and Frasier this ain’t! Maybe keep either the Doctor’s distracting confession of love OR the “partner/companion” stuff, but not both.

There were some good scenes though, like the Doctor spotting Amy and Rory, and his talk to the baby after (somehow) turning the nightlight into a planetarium. I also liked the seamless first teleportation, and the closing scene linking the blue envelopes and Stetson to The Impossible Astronaut (with its the line about how even a time machine isn’t much help booking a glazier on a Sunday).

[genericnerdyusername]

I loved it.

So that’s decided then.

[pfm]

Some utter utter bollocks from Gareth Roberts (the worst of Moffat’s tenure??) saved by Matt Smith and James Corden. Maybe it didn’t help that it followed two perfectly written and directed episodes but it felt clumsy, all over the place.

Not all bad, of course. Matt and James again having great chemistry. The Eleven/baby scene. The ending. Seeing Amy and Rory…did anyone else think, if only for a second, that it was more like Karen being asked for her autograph? I must admit I breathed a sigh of relief with the perfume poster reveal.

[Author]

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