Mundane observation dome

[Warbodog]

Do you have any miscellaneous insights on the series that may be worth contemplating for a few seconds before moving on with our lives? Here are some of mine.

1. The four regulars have names that can work any way around, though this would have been more obvious if David Ross had stayed and wouldn’t work if Chris Barrie used his real name.

2. The series’ lax attitude to continuity extends to the setting. Outside of Holly’s distress calls, I don’t think three million years is mentioned all that much after series I and before VI (not sure about later years). Instead, we get the extremely fudged “dead for centuries” and “travelling for thousands of years” – not actual retcons, but suggesting a more conventional setting for casual viewers tuning in and the sort of stories they’re telling. It’s only millions when they need it to be.

3. 200 years of stasis between series V and VI means that the earlier series took place in their equivalent of the early 19th century by comparison (e.g. Blackadder the Third). Since they didn’t run into a long-lived Camille or one of her great-great-etc grandchildren, it didn’t come up.

4. Although Lister is routinely slagged off in the series, he’s spared the level of seemingly authoritative character assassination that Rimmer gets, because the audience is aligned with Lister’s viewpoint most of the time. For example, we see Kochanski Camille belittling Rimmer’s interests, but we don’t get the equivalent of Hologram Camille reacting to Lister’s pickup lines, we’re left to form our own opinions on those. This flimsy point has not been considered much beyond this single example.

5. Cat’s costumes are overwhelmingly referenced more than anyone else’s in the series, but the least discussed by fans.

6. Ace Rimmer and Duane Dibbley were so seemingly ubiquitous in canon and tie-in merchandise through the 90s (Smegazine strips, T-shirts) that they still feel overused today, even though it’s been over 20 years since they appeared. Maybe they’re allowed back after all.

7. Only series III & V and maybe XI & XII (not as familiar with those) don’t have any sense of an arc whatsoever (though IV’s minor Kryten disobedience arc was already fucked up by episode shuffling). Series III is just about the only series where no episode directly references any previous episode, but it still has the Backwards scrolling text and general references to Rimmer having died and stuff.

8. One of the series’ most famous and quoted scenes – everybody’s dead, Dave – is a straight-up 2001: A Space Odyssey homage and would have been received that way at the time, but doesn’t work like that for most people coming to the episode later on or new viewers who are young or don’t watch old films.

9. Sometimes dismissed as lightweight and gimmicky today, Backwards was designed as an innovative interactive experience to reward extracurricular effort. As well as inviting fans to work out the backwards events and filming logistics, Arthur Smith’s eugolonom is teasingly long and “you scoundrels” is clearly a cleaned-up translation gag even before you’ve heard it. Unfortunately, by the time technology caught up with the intent and the ability to reverse media files properly on home computers became commonplace, Backwards Forwards came out and everyone just cheated with the walkthrough.

Imagine the quality of the musings I left out!

Topic

[Jenuall]

[Flap Jack]

Stoke is my 6th worst, which is some achievement considering there are more episodes than that in VIII alone.

Always glad to hear from a fellow Stoke denier. I love that opening as much as the next guy, but a single amazing sequence can only uplift an otherwise poor episode, not outright save it. That’s also why Blue wasn’t as good in my RftM rewatch as I had remembered it to be.

Though even I feel a bit more fondly towards Stoke than you do. In the CC I scored it a 3, better than a whopping 8 other episodes (all of Series VIII except Cassandra, and Timewave) and tied with 3 other episodes (Nanarchy, Entangled and Dear Dave).

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I’ve got Holoship 7th.  My lowest VII is Tikka at 27th. Which judging by the convo a few days ago basically makes me scum. 

[Unrumble]

I’ve got Holoship 7th.  My lowest VII is Tikka at 27th. Which judging by the convo a few days ago basically makes me scum. 

[Starbugger]

It can however be a bit frustrating when they don’t react to some of the gold in there – pretty sure the lightbulb exchange got little to no reaction from them for example! Or even worse is when reaction creators cut key sections of an episode out of their upload so you never get to see what they thought of it!

I don’t know if you support them on Patreon but the lightbulb gag wasn’t included in the YouTube edit.

[RunawayTrain]

I honestly would struggle to pick a top 3, in seriousness, I think it’s more that I have a top however-many that are always in positional rotation. 

Same for me.  The only way I managed to choose a top 3 is by imagining I could only watch three episodes ever again, in which case I’ve settled for Queeg, Marooned, and Quarantine.  But only just, and I’m extremely happy that’s not a scenario likely to happen at all! 

I’d add in Legion and – somewhat surprising myself – probably Terrorform for a top 5.  I have several other favourites too that I would miss if I couldn’t watch them again.

[Podey]

Some wildly incorrect stuff gets said in their comment sections. Just seen a bloke saying the reason 7 is hated is because it was originally aired without any laughter track and that failed so badly it was dubbed in for all subsequent releases… unless this is my Mandela Effect, it most definitely was aired with the laughter track, right?!

[Warbodog]

They might be getting it confused with the (later) Xtended video release of just 3 episodes, or Back to Earth (minus the dubbing part, which they’ve made up). I might even prefer VII without the audience.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

I might even prefer VII without the audience.

Why was this a hot take when I said it?

[Dave]

I might even prefer VII without the audience.

The BBC was no longer interested in the studio audience Red Dwarf used to attract. 

[tombow]

I just watched the G-gals review of Stoke and something popped into my head. What if RD had cast Don Warrington as his Holoship character to replace Rimmer. Or if he wasn’t interested, some other actor who can play a nerdy, uptight character who is very similar to Rimmer and can just substitute for him and say all the things he’d say. Maybe even throw Kochanski in there as well, maybe he’d be “their Rimmer” from the other universe and get stuck with them too.

[Flap Jack]

What if RD had cast Don Warrington as his Holoship character to replace Rimmer.

What if in Holoship itself, Jane Horrocks had played the condescending scout, and Don Warrington had played the one who fell in love with Rimmer?

Then with just a couple of tweaks to the ending you could have had Binks replacing Rimmer 2 series early.

[Ian Symes]

You kneed Death in the bollocks, Rim.

Off topic, but if anyone can provide me with a gif of Daisy’s reaction to Tim saying “yeah, like I say, no hard feelings”, I’ll be their best friend. It’s the perfect reaction gif for when someone says something mildly to moderately amusing in a WhatsApp group.

[Ian Symes]

Some wildly incorrect stuff gets said in their comment sections. Just seen a bloke saying the reason 7 is hated is because it was originally aired without any laughter track and that failed so badly it was dubbed in for all subsequent releases… unless this is my Mandela Effect, it most definitely was aired with the laughter track, right?!

Oh, I hate their comments section, it’s wall to wall inaccuracy every single week. 

[tombow]

plus people repeating the same famous trivia point about the episode 300 times (which they’ve no doubt already seen in the Patreon comments)

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Some wildly incorrect stuff gets said in their comment sections. Just seen a bloke saying the reason 7 is hated is because it was originally aired without any laughter track and that failed so badly it was dubbed in for all subsequent releases… unless this is my Mandela Effect, it most definitely was aired with the laughter track, right?!

Oh, I hate their comments section, it’s wall to wall inaccuracy every single week. 

At least it’s in the comment section and not on the podcast itself, which is what Better Than Life seems to excel at. 

[Nick R]

I think we’ve experienced this period of time before, sir.

[Unrumble]

You kneed Death in the bollocks, Rim.

Off topic, but if anyone can provide me with a gif of Daisy’s reaction to Tim saying “yeah, like I say, no hard feelings”, I’ll be their best friend. It’s the perfect reaction gif for when someone says something mildly to moderately amusing in a WhatsApp group.

I’m not a monster, Sym

[Formica]

What’s a savory donut?

[Flap Jack]

[RunawayTrain]

Is this the corollary of Americans using Yorkshire Pudding batter for sweet dishes?  (Popovers, Dutch baby pancakes)

[International Debris]

It’s like a savoury pancake but worse.

[Warbodog]

I feel it might not be the most reliable historical text when it comes to specifics.

[Dave]

What’s a savory donut?

A bagel, obviously. 

[Ian Symes]

  I’m not a monster, Sym

[Ridley]

Why don’t you get a Symesulant like Ian?

[insert Crawford standing in doorway with Ianface here]

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Anyone else think we should have a dedicated Spaced thread?

[Dave]

Anyone else think we should have a dedicated Spaced thread?

OH YEAH, A HADN’T THOUGHT O’ DAT

[Podey]

Yes.

https://www.ganymede.tv/forums/topic/dedicated-spaced-thread/

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Didn’t expect it to be so literal but I’m very happy with the result.

[Dave]

Watching the Q&A video that was just linked in the Chris Barrie website thread, it’s never really occurred to me before that an adaptation of Marooned could be the way to go for a Red Dwarf live show.

Obviously the major downside would be the lack of Kryten, Holly and Cat – but Bobby probably isn’t up to playing Kryten for a full evening for many days at a time, and you could incorporate appearances from all of those characters through pre-filmed video inserts. There’s also the advantage of scheduling as you’d only have to line up Chris and Craig’s calendars.

You’d probably want a bit more action and incident for a full-length stage show, but you could certainly take the bare bones of Marooned and expand on it by adding elements from other episodes (or original material) that would be practical to do live.

You could even have multiple versions of the characters if you went with something like Lister’s Father’s Day conversation with himself.

[International Debris]

They could do it like Bottom and just throw in loads of ludicrously over the top violence and knob gags to fill out the show. Would suit Marooned perfectly.

[Warbodog]

They could do it like Bottom and just throw in loads of ludicrously over the top violence and knob gags to fill out the show. Would suit Marooned perfectly.

[Podey]

The series 7 streak is broken but I do wonder if they’d have enjoyed this just a little more had they watched the version with a laugh track rather than Xtended.

[cwickham]

In the final scene of Cured, Telford refers to his “arrest and execution”, so is this Telford actually a droid version of the original one, and if so why did Doug seemingly forget about this on the XII documentary?

[Moonlight]

Presumably Telford is resurrected by the method Kryten explains earlier.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Presumably the plot 

[Ridley]

The series 7 streak is broken but I do wonder if they’d have enjoyed this just a little more had they watched the version with a laugh track rather than Xtended.

They still seem to be getting something out if it though.

Having watched through every episode bar I and a chunk of II, Paula did predict Lister as his own father in…  wanna say Timeslides? And the pair seem to have a good nose for preempting certain things.

Suspect they will struggle with VIII and Timewave, assuming their… patience with… certain VII aspects (time)holds.

[tombow]

why did Kochanski’s Holly activate Lister as her sanity hologram? Did he think Lister is good for her (keeps her down to earth or whatever) but she is bad for him? (Rimmer is better for him)

I think the GGs predicted it based on them remembering the similar premise in Futurama

[Dave]

Well the relationships between them are different in the two different universes. In Kochanski’s universe they’re a couple, not exes.

Edit: or do they only become a couple again after he comes back as a hologram, rather than before Kochanski goes into stasis?

[Flap Jack]

I wouldn’t say that Kochanski was judged by Holly as being bad for Lister necessarily, just not as good for him as Rimmer. Whereas alt-Kochanski doesn’t have a ‘Rimmer’ figure in her life, so Lister is her best option.

It’s hard to see how Kochanski could be bad for Lister without Lister ultimately also being bad for Kochanski. Living with someone who’s getting progressively worse due to your influence doesn’t sound especially healthy.

Of course the real reason is that The End was written when Lister and Kochanski barely knew each other, but by the time of Ouroboros they had been retconned to exes. But obviously that doesn’t satisfy from an in-universe (or multiverse) perspective.

One other possibility is that as Kochanski is an officer, Holly let her choose who to revive as a hologram, or she was able to override his initial choice. They said that Holly brought Lister back as a hologram in the other universe, but they didn’t explicitly say that it was Holly’s choice to do so, right?

[Flap Jack]

Well the relationships between them are different in the two different universes. In Kochanski’s universe they’re a couple, not exes.

They’re only confirmed to be a couple in the present day though. You can fan theory it, but given in the flashback the context is that they had just broken up, and also given what KK says about her Lister becoming more sensitive as a softlight hologram, I really don’t think we’re meant to infer that they got back together in between Kochanski taking Young Frankenstein and her getting put into stasis. Rather that it was a post mortem romance revival.

[Dave]

I guess the exact timing is a bit unclear. Either way, their relationship seems to be somewhat different in the alternate universe so maybe that played into Holly’s decision too.

Another question leading on from that is: if “our” Holly had brought back Kochanski to accompany Lister instead of Rimmer, would they have got back together in this universe too, or remained exes? Kochanski’s dialogue suggests that Lister’s changes as a result of being a hologram could be part of what helped bring them back together in her universe.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Lister and Kochanski’s entire relationship was physical and when Kriss wanted more split it off

Hologram Lister becomes more sensitive towards Kochanski because he can’t touch her, so in Chloe Kochanski universe, they end up back together. Presumably he becomes headlight eventually and their physical relation reignites but he maintains he’s more sensitive side 

A hologram Kochanski in our universe wouldn’t change in the same way. Unless Lister again becomes more sensitive towards hologram Kochanski. But I don’t see that being realistic.

I think it’s more likely Lister would get bored and end up bringing back Selby or Chen etc 

 

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Kochanski taking Young Frankenstein

[Ridley]

I think it’s more likely Lister would get bored and end up bringing back Selby or Chen etc 
 

Or shoot her light bee out of an airlock.

[Formica]

We can’t forget that Holly’s presumably also computer senile in the other universe. Means any choice only really needs to be half justified.

[Renegade Rob]

I don’t think the choice to bring back Rimmer was particularly a deep one. Pretty sure it was based in frequency of interaction. Lister knew Rimmer best? He gets Rimmer as a hologram. Kochanski knew Lister best since they dated, she gets Lister. 

[Ridley]

I prefer the idea of Rimmer being brought back as Lister needed the antagonism to keep going.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I prefer the idea of Rimmer being brought back as Lister needed the antagonism to keep going.

Yeah. Imagine the love of your life, who you can’t touch and hates you, is the only other person “alive”. You’d end up topping yourself. 

[Author]

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