Refresh For The Memory: Series VI Byte 1

[Ian Symes]

You asked for it. Ahead of the forthcoming 35th anniversary poll, the G&T community is embarking on a big old rewatch, tackling half a series (or one feature length special) per week. This is your designated thread to make notes, share observations and start pondering your rankings.

This week, we’re watching PSIRENS, LEGION and GUNMEN OF THE APOCALYPSE. Have at it!

Previous threads:

Series 1 Byte 1
Series 1 Byte 2
Series 2 Byte 1
Series 2 Byte 2
Series III Byte 1
Series III Byte 2
Series IV Byte 1
Series IV Byte 2
Series V Byte 1
Series V Byte 2

[Dave]

Another top-quality Byte. It’s good this Red Dwarf show, isn’t it?

[Dave]

For me, Psirens is in that slightly unfortunate Meltdown position of actually being a really good episode in its own right, but being surrounded by so much quality that it somehow feels that little bit lesser as a result.

Legion is maybe the funniest episode of Dwarf that has ever been made – I still laugh out loud now while watching it, as the jokes and performances are so good that familiarity doesn’t diminish them – and Gunmen is obviously so brilliantly ambitious and compelling and well staged that it stands out as something special, even without being as funny and inventive as it is. Like the Inquisitor it almost feels like a mini-movie in itself.

Still, Psirens does deserve some further credit for being one of the best soft-reboot episodes that I’ve ever seen, making it brilliantly accessible for newcomers while also being an intriguing “oh, what’s going on here then?” moment for longtime fans.

[Unrumble]

Another top-quality Byte. It’s good this Red Dwarf show, isn’t it?

[Warbodog]

I don’t enjoy shitting on my own childhood, but I think Gunmen’s the only strong episode here. Start of the (inevitable) decline, especially noticeable when watching in order like this.

[Stilianides]

Psirens

Interesting that the writers were asked to reintroduce the characters and, generally speaking, the opening scenes do a fine job. A small point, but I always enjoy hearing rarely spoken expressions and “cigar dimps” makes me smile. It was probably a sensible decision to omit the lines about Lister saving photos of his scantily clad ex-girlfriends, but the scene is further evidence that Lister has never exactly been a paragon of virtue.

It was a bold move for Rob and Doug to attempt to mimic the gag-heavy style of American sitcoms, but to do it without a full writers’ room. They did it remarkably well and there are some great jokes (ginger toupee, bigger than King Kong’s first dump of the day, as plain as a Bulgarian pin-up etc.). My own personal feeling is the “curly shoes and hummus” line is perfectly in character for Lister and amusingly worded.

On the whole, the show looks great with convincing model shots and impressive effects. 

I hadn’t really noticed before, but the wind sound when Lister meets Pete Tranter’s sister also adds to the atmosphere.

Altering the sheep line from Welsh to Albanian makes the joke flow a lot better and avoids having three Welsh references in this series.

There are some similarities with Polymorph, but the execution is different enough for it not to bother me. Plus, the Psiren itself is only on the ship for the last few minutes, so it doesn’t outstay its welcome.

Another great coup to have Jenny Agutter make an appearance.

The Cat’s nasal awareness is one of those things that I can go with because I’m enjoying the rest of the episodes. When there are so many high quality things in a series, it makes it much easier to accept daft changes.

The chase for Red Dwarf differentiates Series VI from previous Dwarf and gives the show a new sense of purpose. It means that there’s probably not as much heart as elsewhere, but I’m glad that they made the change for one year (which is probably all it should have been).

[Warbodog]

Psirens would have been the first episode of Red Dwarf I saw in full if it hadn’t been removed from repeats. Instead, it ended up being the last one I saw, six years later at the end of an unseen video binge.

That gives it unique exemption from the strong childhood nostalgia of the rest of VI (those five episodes on repeats were Red Dwarf for me for several years). I’m more nostalgic for its smeg-ups and Smegazine set photos than for the episode itself, which I’ve always found disappointing.

It’s clever enough, and looks impressive to a show-off extent, but it feels like they’re riffing on familiar ideas now, and the Psiren feels like the first monster-of-the-week for the sake of having one, which isn’t great for episode one of the run.

– Why does VI’s picture quality look shitter?

– The opening scenes were posthumously script edited by Anton Chekhov.

– Lister’s reappointed as main character. It’s overdue and was the sense I had starting with this series generally, though still very much a team effort.

– This must just be a larger type of Starbug (unless Nanarchy specifically states it’s the same one from Back to Reality). No way could the old ones beetle along for 200 years!

– Cat doesn’t get an introduction, he’s just suddenly there, but he ends up being well served.

– Chris’ heart doesn’t seem to be in it any more as Rimmer starts his flanderisation to inept, pompous coward.

– Clare Grogan can again fall back on the excuse of playing an intentionally false Kochanski.

– They’re bullying Bulgarians again, but while the Backwards jokes were at Lister’s expense, characterising a whole population as notoriously unattractive feels like it’s crossing a line.

– Funniest: Maybe Cat’s seduction. Kryten preemptively staking his reputation and activating smug mode is a great bit too.

– Psirens are basically Evil Camille(vel). I’ll assume they perform some kind of  additional hypnosis the longer you interact with them to explain Lister’s actions.

– That Kryten cube looks so heavy, I hope the guy in the Psiren costume was okay.

[Dave]

Evil Camille(vel)

Brilliant. 

[Rudolph]

Hats off to Mel Bibby and his team for making the new, larger Starbug sets feel like it’s the same ship from III – V. The new cockpit incorporating four stations feels like it’s the same size as the original two seater. The kitchenette being outfitted in the same grungy white moulded plastic as Red Dwarf is a nice link.

We’re also already into STARDIS territory as the tiny craft has already gained a three-storey engineering deck.

I like the outfits this year. Cat’s firmly in his suit-jacket-over-black-bodysuit phase, Lister’s grimy leather and overalls outfit feel suitably in character and I even like Rimmer’s more ‘combat-y’ puffer jacket look. This is possibly my favourite Kryten outfit, before it became too silver in VII.

Cat suddenly gaining an almost supernatural sense of smell is clearly to help drive the plot forward, but it’s certainly a better idea than him contracting a space illness that’d transform him into Duane Dibbley in moments of high stress, as was mooted.

The new computer effects also make this feel like a step up in quality, as we finally get to see the bazookoids fire a laser beam instead of relying on a pyrotechnic from the props boys.

[International Debris]

Psirens 

Good to see Kryten’s been busy rebuilding Starbug’s interior in the 200 years. 

The opening sequence really introduces us to the new Cartoon Character version of Lister: all curry, dirty underwear and no depth. In III he picked a delicious breakfast out of the bin; here he’s putting onion on his cornflakes. 

Cat smelling things, ‘deader than…’, Space Corps Directive, Kryten’s head shape, they’ve got all the VI hallmarks down from the off. 

Why are there SO many spaceships in this one asteroid belt in deep space?! 

“Someone who badly needed a pen” is superb. 

The model work here is fantastic. 

How are the psirens still alive after millions of years? 

Psirens are the first proper monster of the week we’ve had since Polymorph. Unlike Camille and Polymorph, there’s not even an attempt to explain why the Psirens were even engineered. 

Other than Lister doing anything for Kochanski and believing he’s a great guitarist, we don’t get any actual character stuff here at all. The Psirens are literally just a monster to defeat. 

The kiss is an incredible visual gag. 

Channel 27, Claire Grogan, sperm bank on Red Dwarf (why??), despite this being as far from the first series as the show has got, there are more callbacks here than we’ve had in ages. 

Double Lister is such a good effect. 

If Kryten’s brain is so logical, why can’t he ignore Mammet, given that he knows she’s a Psiren. 

What would a Psiren do if it didn’t have a straw to hand? 

Back to the original version of the theme here. 

Yeah, there are a lot of great gags in there but it feels so much broader, and the central idea feels slightly unoriginal with little to say about the characters. It would be fine as an episode 5, but as a lead episode that sets up the style for the series, it’s definitely subpar.

[Warbodog]

The chase for Red Dwarf differentiates Series VI from previous Dwarf and gives the show a new sense of purpose. It means that there’s probably not as much heart as elsewhere, but I’m glad that they made the change for one year (which is probably all it should have been).

The quest seems gimmicky when you’re watching in order like this, but I always liked it. It was like a great cartoon (which also tended to leave me hanging).

As much as I see VI as a bit of a step down in a broadly improving series, the effort of an arc and continuity make it better than the sum of the episodes. Also partly why I prefer series I over II & III.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Good to see Kryten’s been busy rebuilding Starbug’s interior in the 200 years. 

That’s actually some pretty reasonable head canon

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Why are there SO many spaceships in this one asteroid belt in deep space?! 

Psiren hallucination?

[International Debris]

Psiren hallucination?

Given that it could have made them turn around and leave the belt, it’s a shit one. Actually, a better idea would have been a safe asteroid belt which was later revealed to be a spaceship graveyard when the hallucination wore off.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

I always thought Psirens missed a trick by not getting Phil Manzanera to record a version of the theme song – or better yet, asking Anita if she’s on good enough terms with Brian for him to have a spin at it.

Why are there SO many spaceships in this one asteroid belt in deep space?!

It has been three million years.

– Why does VI’s picture quality look shitter?

And why is it wrong when I’m the one saying it?

Unlike Camille and Polymorph, there’s not even an attempt to explain why the Psirens were even engineered.

Who says they were engineered? Evolution is still a thing. Probably.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Psiren hallucination?

Given that it could have made them turn around and leave the belt, it’s a shit one. Actually, a better idea would have been a safe asteroid belt which was later revealed to be a spaceship graveyard when the hallucination wore off.

They’re praying on a ship that needs supplies.  A bunch of derelicts is like Christmas for them.  Then immediately they get distress calls that all appeal to them in some way.  I think the Psirens knew what they were doing.

[International Debris]

Who says they were engineered? Evolution is still a thing. Probably.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

I think my explanation is better.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Oh, so they did say that. Thanks ID.

[Flap Jack]

Psirens – And so begins the era of ‘Red Dwarf without Red Dwarf’. I pretty much agree with the broad sentiment about Series VI. The reintroductions at the beginning of this episode are very good at bringing new viewers up to speed, and the ongoing plot of chasing Red Dwarf makes the whole thing feel more engrossing, but the broadening of the humour and the characterisation is a bit of a trade off compared to the previous series. However, in the case of Psirens (and for a lot of the series probably), the result is so enjoyable that I’m not too upset about it.

– Titles still aren’t in the correct aspect ratio. Why must they inflict this upon us?

– When Lister sees himself in the mirror and goes “Who the hell are you?”, the first time I watched the episode I thought he was just commenting on how different he looked with so much hair growth. I didn’t realise he had amnesia until the next scene. Did that happen for anyone else, or am I just thick?

– The setting up is good overall, but Rimmer saying “Now, gentlemen, as we’re all aware, we have lost Red Dwarf” is very clunky “as you know” exposition. Surely Kryten could have explained that while Lister was still amnesiac, so it seemed more natural.

– Starbug does seem generally bigger now (even putting the extra seats in the cockpit aside), but thinking about, it was fairly huge when we saw it in perspective in Backwards, so it’s not too much of a stretch.

– They were lucky that on the trip out where they lost Red Dwarf (Back to Reality, if you believe Prelude to Nanarchy), they’d fully loaded up Starbug with supplies. Perhaps ever since Marooned, they always keep Starbug fully stocked just in case (although that may not be consistent, given how low on oxygen and power they were in Demons & Angels).

– I don’t think there’s a clearer demonstration of gags taking priority over character than how in the very last episode, Kryten said of Lister “You have always prided yourself on being a good man, a man of moral courage.”, but here when Lister prompts him to give an example of him being a good person, Kryten says “you’re sometimes lazy and unhygenic in a way that inadvertently benefits me”.

– The guy who gets recorded being attacked by a Psiren is giving some classic overly descriptive audio drama dialogue. “Get that straw out of my ear!”.

– They make fun of The Cat for falling for the Psirens’ video message trick, saying that he’d be dead without them to stop him, but actually he pretty much stopped himself. Compare him to Lister, who was fully convinced Kochanski was calling him and was about to chase after her, even though he literally just saw them try the exact same trick on Cat. At least for Felix, it was only their first time trying that trick.

– The first person on the Kochanski call is called “Captain Tau”. Clearly Rob and Doug liked that name and were disappointed their use of it in Red Dwarf USA didn’t make it to air.

– Cat Saying Characters’ Names-Watch: “Better get Kryten, he’ll know what to do”. (Side note: funny to hear Cat being the one to say that, after DNA.)

– Each time Lister says “Pete Tranter’s Sister” it gets funnier.

– Psirens are scarily powerful creatures, given how they can cast such powerful illusions and read minds, and at such long range. You’d think, considering that their powers are purely psychological, that they would have been able to take blood samples from the 2 Listers or something, to tell which one is really him, but their powers are so great that I guess they’d just create an illusion to falsify the results.

– That second Psiren who pretends to be Kryten was an idiot, as it should have seen in Lister’s mind that Kryten (and everyone really, except for Lovett Holly) never calls him Dave. Maybe it would have been a cleverer tell if the false Kryten had called him “Lister” instead of “Mr. Lister”.

– The third Psiren (the one who gets onto Starbug) wasn’t really taking full advantage of its powers. It could have created an illusion where the real Lister ‘accidentally’ reveals himself to be the Psiren, so they kill him. Then it would be in the clear.

– I’ve said this before, but it’s disappointing that Kryten’s main gizmo is a psi-scan, but it can’t be used to scan for psirens. What else is it even named for?

– Another example of Series VI broadening characterisation is how Lister is genuinely deluded about his guitar skills. Previously he was more aware that he wasn’t actually good. (“I know I’m not exactly a wizard on it”)

– Kryten’s cube form is great for being a table, but how did those drinks get put on him to begin with, eh?

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

They were lucky that on the trip out where they lost Red Dwarf (Back to Reality, if you believe Prelude to Nanarchy), they’d fully loaded up Starbug with supplies.

It’s canon from Nanarchy too.  They loose the Dwarf at the BtR ocean moon, Rimmer says it’s Lister fault because he couldn’t remember where he’d parked it.

Also that first scene around the scanner table has Lister pointing out how few supplies they do have, so not loaded up at all.

[International Debris]

To be fair, all they say in Nanarchy is that the Esperanto was “just before” they lost Red Dwarf, leaving it open to believe that they might have been on their next mission.

I would imagine when they’re going on a proper exploration mission, they’d load Starbug with at least a few weeks of supplies, just in case. Clearly that couldn’t happen in Demons & Angels, which was a last minute dash. So after a day or two of looking for Red Dwarf, they’d go into hibernation until it was nearby to save on supplies, but now they’re awake it’s going to be an issue.

[Warbodog]

An old-school favourite, Legion breezed my earlier top 10s based on nostalgia before I actually watched it again for the first time in years and realised I don’t rate it so highly after all, especially compared to the similar episodes from previous years that Rimmer alludes to.

The celebrated opening scenes are as worn out as the Talkie Toaster bit by now. (Best part: Rimmer telling Kryten to get in the damn tube). Odd, since I didn’t watch the VI DVD as much as the earlier ones, and other notably funny episodes (e.g. Kryten) aren’t worn out in the same way. Maybe something about funny gags vs more naturally-derived comedy?

Legion’s a memorable villain, but their amiable imprisonment is just less effective than the usual deadly peril. When he does get threatening at the end, we’re distracted with the explanation and a weird effect. I don’t know, really. It just kept sinking down the ranking as each contender offered better character scenes or other things.

– There’s enough of a recap that this always worked for me as the accidental first episode of VI. If any details were missing, I figured that was down to the ‘VI’ part (I’d glimpsed Red Dwarf and Hattie in IV).

– It would’ve been nice to see more recognisable traces of their personalities in Legion, especially after they start knocking him out.

– I don’t like how Kryten’s creepily smiley through much of the second half. If it starts after he has his drink, maybe he’s pissed.

[Stabbim]

I know everyone loves “it does mean changing the bulb” but after 5+ series of building up the gag about Lister as a guitarist, catching the Psiren out because it can actually play the guitar is for my money the funniest gag the show has ever done.

Every time the crew backs into saving the day via their foibles and shortcomings are my favorite moments (Rimmer breaking Better Than Life’s paradise trap by hating himself, etc.) and the psiren being too good at guitar to pass as Lister is the best of those, in my opinion.

[Dave]

When Lister sees himself in the mirror and goes “Who the hell are you?”, the first time I watched the episode I thought he was just commenting on how different he looked with so much hair growth. I didn’t realise he had amnesia until the next scene. Did that happen for anyone else, or am I just thick?

I used to think this too. I thought it was rhetorical rather than literal.

[Unrumble]

Psirens 

– Kryten’s “sir, you are sick!” is on a par with that from The Inquisitor.

– Rimmer’s seemingly mellowed since Quarantine, he doesn’t challenge Kryten giving the command “launch scouter”.

– even as a kid, I found Clare Grogan’s acting in this scene to be… interesting.

– “Lister, tune in to Sanity FM!”

– I know there’s been a lot of talk about this being the weak link of VI, but the gag rate is both quality and plentiful. Sure it’s a different approach, but still meritorious. I guess we’ll see whether it starts feeling repetitive as the series goes on.

I’d personally probably rank Psirens above Emohawk & Rimmerworld (though I reserve the right to change my mind when we get to those). 

[Dave]

I’d personally probably rank Psirens above Emohawk & Rimmerworld

Same. I think it’s decent enough but Legion and Gunmen are so good that they put it in the shade.

[Flap Jack]

I used to think this too. I thought it was rhetorical rather than literal.

[Flap Jack]

Noticed something else in Psirens. Pete Tranter’s Sister says it’s been 3 million years since Lister last had sex, but it hasn’t. Parallel Universe.

[Ian Symes]

That was just a really elaborate wank.

[Unrumble]

“Having sex with a parallel universe version of yourself, is very much like making love to a beautiful woman” 

[International Debris]

Legion 

Definitely the best of the monster of the week style VI episodes. 

Opening scenes are the closest to the ‘everyday life’ scenes of the earlier series that VI gets. 

Red alert bulb is justified as the show’s Del Boy Falls Through the Bar moment. Still makes me laugh. 

At one point I only had VI and VII on video and had watched VII a lot, so Lister stopping Kryten from sacrificing himself because he doesn’t want to do his own ironing seemed particularly nasty. 

Hardlight. It’s obvious Rob and Doug needed to go this way, but it does remove something for me. 

What makes this episode is Legion himself, he’s a really original idea.

Surely Legion knows that none of them know how to eat Memosian food? 

“Can’t even remember what a fork looks like” has a touch of series VIII Holly about it. 

God that food looks disgusting. 

The slapstick in the dinner scene would normally be too broad, but I love the overriding gag that as soon as Rimmer gets a body, he gets covered in food. 

“What about company, what about people?” What, like back on Red Dwarf, you mean?

I understand the issue of them being prisoners, but honestly I’d much rather stay there than get back to Red Dwarf. 

Why is their rage and anger magnified many times? 

Legion taking his mask off to show his changing face, and not stabbing his balls like he threatened, instead choosing to watch them foiling his plans feels… clunky. 

Rimmer gets even more physical discomfort in his new body. 

Where does Rimmer’s light bee go?? 

Is there a single nasty word between the main characters in this episode? I know the dire circumstances make for the need for them to work together, but they definitely all feel like a team of friends here. Rimmer is an equal. 

Series III mix of the theme.

[Jenuall]

Why exactly does Legion being a gestalt entity that is generated by their presence mean that he becomes a voodoo doll for inflicting pain on them?

2/10 worst episode ever, wouldn’t watch again!

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

“Can’t even remember what a fork looks like” has a touch of series VIII Holly about it.

 

Surely Legion knows that none of them know how to eat Memosian food?

I think that’s his sadistic streak coming out again.

– even as a kid, I found Clare Grogan’s acting in this scene to be… interesting.

How do you mean?

[Jenuall]

I just get a kick out of the way she says “Back on Red Du-warf”

[Warbodog]

Opening scenes are the closest to the ‘everyday life’ scenes of the earlier series that VI gets. 

I think of early Rimmerworld for early-series mundanity and slowness. I’m clearly getting no support for my ‘Legion is overrated’ madness, better luck with Rimmerworld being underappreciated.

The slapstick in the dinner scene would normally be too broad, but I love the overriding gag that as soon as Rimmer gets a body, he gets covered in food.

Rimmer gets even more physical discomfort in his new body. 

Yeah, alright, maybe it can go up a little bit.

[Unrumble]

– even as a kid, I found Clare Grogan’s acting in this scene to be… interesting.

How do you mean?

I’ll probably not articulate this correctly. I find it a little unconvincing, too OTT, like a kid in a school play trying to act like an action hero. There’s a bit of a ‘playing to the back row’ vibe. 

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

I’ll probably not articulate this correctly. I find it a little unconvincing, too OTT, like a kid in a school play trying to act like an action hero. There’s a bit of a ‘playing to the back row’ vibe. 

I mean… I think the script called for a bit of OTT. 

[Dave]

Rewatching Legion tonight, Rimmer’s “Marvellous!” as he examines the artworks struck me as very Brittas. I can definitely see a bit of bleed-through into Rimmer in the V and VI era.

[Stilianides]

Legion

Some great gags in the opening section and I think Rob has nominated this as one of his favourite bits of Dwarf.

The shortage of food idea was also a smart addition and gives the show some purpose.

Interesting that Rob is still complaining that Rimmer being hard light was only intended to be one episode.

The chopsticks scene is inspired, despite the technical limitations, and makes good use of Rimmer’s new situation.

The Doug McClure gags could never be considered a show highlight, but kind of nice that they didn’t choose an actor who was having massive success in the early 90s.

Dodgy effects with the star drive, but infinitely superior to the first attempt. The cast members all sell the ending rather well.

[International Debris]

Edit; I give up.

[Warbodog]

I’d watched Gunmen recently enough that I didn’t have to worry too much about disowning series VI. Forget Back to Reality’s retrospective sense of prestige – this is the Event episode.

I think it was repeated on its own once or twice, which made it feel like the closest thing to a special. It even got its own making-of book, more or less. It deserves the focus, though designing the VI DVD around the saloon was probably overkill.

I’ve got it 5th (maybe sinking one more for Out of Time), but it might make as much sense as a token number 1. Even the poor execution of an already tedious running gag can’t spoil that!

– The opening scene is Back to Reality with a slightly faster reveal.

– Accidentally putting Rimmer in red worked out for the best. It works with them having powered down for silent running and it’s an excuse they otherwise wouldn’t have had to remind us of his recent upgrade.

– How many live humans has this guy seen in recent millennia that he’s disappointed to find Lister, the Last Human? Growing up with episodes like this, I naturally didn’t cotton on to the deep future, deep space setting until I read the novel (I think three million’s only specifically mentioned in unseen Psirens).

– It’s easiest to assume the shots put them in some kind of stasis for the three weeks and they were ‘reactivated’ like Rimmer, rather than Lister and Cat being hooked up to catheters and stuff.

– Cat helping the audience to keep ahead of the plot is a nice change of pace in a particularly formulaic series.

– Bear-Strangler McGee is quite a Bottom name.

– Amnesiac Sheriff Kryten is a great alter ego.

– Rimmer finally works out what smee hee means.

– How did the lava moon crash not make G&T’s best special effects?

– The final sunset shot and accompanying music is joyous, but the shrinking Starbug effect looks rubbish. Hopefully they won’t try that sort of etc.

[clem]

Psirens is definitely my least favourite episode of this byte, but there’s not as much in it as I thought (not if the other two are as good as I remember.)

The discussion about the message scrawled in human remains is a classic, in the same vein as the Winnie the Pooh assassination in Meltdown. 

Love that forced perspective shot of Lister and Starbug’s leg and the psiren’s shadow.

Lister kissing the psiren is one of the funniest things in the show so far.

Lister’s “cute little doll” gag is odd. Perhaps I don’t get it. Is that even a real movie trope? Either way it feels like a shoehorned-in sketch joke.

The most properly famous household names of any Red Dwarf guest cast? It’s even got Daddy Pig.

[Unrumble]

Someone mentioned earlier Psirens reintroducing the idea of Lister as the ‘main’ character. 

Having watched all 3 eps from this byte now, I feel like Rimmer does seem a little sidelined. I’m sure someone can immediately counter this theory with supporting evidence… but he does appear to have a bit less to do/say, with a fair bit of his dialogue being expository or functional. 

Wonder if this would’ve contributed to Chris’ desire to leave. Maybe I’ve actually read/heard somewhere that this actually is the case, and it’s been lost to the mists of my memory. 

Of course he’s still got plenty of killer gags and deliveries, ratio just feels like it’s shifted. 

[clem]

It deserves the focus, though designing the VI DVD around the saloon was probably overkill.

[Dave]

Someone mentioned earlier Psirens reintroducing the idea of Lister as the ‘main’ character. 
Having watched all 3 eps from this byte now, I feel like Rimmer does seem a little sidelined. I’m sure someone can immediately counter this theory with supporting evidence… but he does appear to have a bit less to do/say, with a fair bit of his dialogue being expository or functional. 
Wonder if this would’ve contributed to Chris’ desire to leave. Maybe I’ve actually read/heard somewhere that this actually is the case, and it’s been lost to the mists of my memory. 
Of course he’s still got plenty of killer gags and deliveries, ratio just feels like it’s shifted. 

I think the deep character examination is missing from this series. You look at Rimmerworld or Ace’s return in Emohawk and these Rimmer-centric aspects have nothing like the depth we saw in the similarly-themed Me² and Dimension Jump.

Even in Series V you had stuff like Holoship and Terrorform which really dig into the character. Maybe they thought they needed to compensate here with a renewed focus on Lister, but it’s not like his characterisation is particularly deep either.

Series VI is definitely the broad sitcom version of Dwarf, and it does that really well, but you can see why some people feel there’s something missing.

[Jenuall]

The counterpoint I guess is that Out Of Time is probably one of the best character examination episodes of the whole run, as well as somehow managing to contain both some of the most effective drama AND comedy that the show ever achieved in one episode

[Dave]

I love Out Of Time but I don’t think of it as one of the great character episodes in that way. The reality-pockets first half is lots of fun and the arsehole-future-selves second half is a fun idea, but I’m not sure any of it really digs into the characters in that much depth, short of giving Rimmer that final electrifying moment.

But maybe this is a discussion for next week.

[Unrumble]

Maybe they thought they needed to compensate here with a renewed focus on Lister, but it’s not like his characterisation is particularly deep either.

The Continuing Curry-fication of David Lister

[Jenuall]

I love Out Of Time but I don’t think of it as one of the great character episodes in that way. The reality-pockets first half is lots of fun and the arsehole-future-selves second half is a fun idea, but I’m not sure any of it really digs into the characters in that much depth, short of giving Rimmer that final electrifying moment.
But maybe this is a discussion for next week.

Personally I think the juxtaposition of their future selves, the way the behaviour they exhibit betrays the ideals that our present crew hold, and the way that inspires them into action is probably some of my favourite content from this era – but yeah, we can park that one for a few more days!

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