Russell Two Davies

[Nick R]

Apparently, today there was some news about a change to Doctor Who’s production staff, in some obscure behind-the-scenes role. I don’t know if anyone else heard about it?

Topic

[Dave]

Actually, that’s a relief cause I get incredibly anxious about how I come across to other people. I’m somewhere between being too optimistic for my own good and being a miserable fucking bastard. 

Nah, you’re fine. I understand the frustration over the Doctor Who news, it’s hard to be calm and measured when you’re a fan of something. 

[Warbodog]

We also don’t swear here, so watch your cunting language.

[Professor Flibble]

We also don’t swear here, so watch your cunting language.

Oh, crumbs.

[Professor Flibble]

If the show comes back, the Daleks will certainly have been gone long enough. I was honestly missing them last year, but now the show’s gone for the foreseeable, in retrospect I think making them take a break at this specific point was a bad idea. I guess their return would be even more of a big deal now.

[Doomitron]

I was only joking around. G&T has long had an unspoken rule that if a conversation doesn’t ultimately turn into a discussion of Series VIII, it will instead degenerate into Sonic memes.

See ya in 10 minutes?

[Nick R]

Imagine there’s no Doctor Who

It’s so easy you don’t even have to try

No Beast Below us

Above us only Sky Silvestry

[Technopeasant]

Well there was that brief period between 13.8 billion years ago and 1963…

[Technopeasant]

Merlin was a one-off mention and hardly comparable to Fugitive who pops up recurringly in several episodes, while the curator Doctor is intentionally an end-of-life thing you can presume happens after the Doctor “retires”.

I always assumed Seven was literally Merlin himself. Time travel and all that.

[Technopeasant]

 There’s also the dumb Shalka Doctor cameo we had in whatever episode that was.

I’m actually happy if that’s the case. They should have kept Shalka and just made Eccelston the Tenth Doctor. Half the casuals probably forgot there was an Eighth Doctor anyway.

[Technopeasant]

 What about Cushing?  

Oh well yeah the complication of Cushing goes with out saying

I really like the idea the Cushing films are based on Ian and Barbara’s recollections after returning to Earth.

[Technopeasant]

On a general note, it is insane to me that we have never had even one animated new adventure featuring a past Doctor. You’d think they’d have done that a long time ago.

I always say that they should have just done the recons as episodes of an ongoing series also featuring new stories with past Doctors.

[Flap Jack]

I’m actually happy if that’s the case. They should have kept Shalka and just made Eccelston the Tenth Doctor. Half the casuals probably forgot there was an Eighth Doctor anyway.

Yes, and the Shalka Doctor fits perfectly into canon in between War and Nine. Thankfully Moffat never showed War regenerating into Nine, or it wouldn’t make any sense and would just come across as RTD trolling the fanbase.

I really like the idea the Cushing films are based on Ian and Barbara’s recollections after returning to Earth.

I guess you mean ‘based on’ in the sense of an in-universe adaptation that intentionally takes liberties, but I am still imagining that the Cushing movies were Ian and Barbara’s exact recollections.

“And that’s how my grandad Dr. Who dragged me, my baby sister and my boyfriend on all sorts of fantastic adventures across time and space!”

“Sister? I thought Susan was your pupil at Coal Hill?”

“What? I’ve never worked in a mine.”

“And how did you know about the Daleks invading Earth in the future?”

“What do you mean?”

“I mean you and Ian weren’t even in that one.”

“Obviously Dr. Who, my first cousin once removed Louise – who definitely exists – and Susan told me about it later! Susan always tells me everything. We are sisters after all! It’s not like my grandfather left her behind there.”

[Podey]

I don’t watch Doctor Who so may I instead take a moment to say how bloody brilliant his ‘Tip Toe’ on Channel 4 is? 

[Rushy]

Merlin was a one-off mention and hardly comparable to Fugitive who pops up recurringly in several episodes, while the curator Doctor is intentionally an end-of-life thing you can presume happens after the Doctor “retires”.

I always assumed Seven was literally Merlin himself. Time travel and all that.

I think they mention that his physical appearance was different, so the implication for me was that t some point, some future Doctor will travel to the “magic dimension” to be Merlin for King Arthur.  

[Rushy]

I think Tennant coming back was just another stupid stunt of a twist that was designed to make headlines and confound viewers who thought they would be getting a Whittaker-Gatwa regeneration.

Iirc Gatwa wasn’t available to film during the time frame they needed for the 60th anniversary special. There may have also been concerns that introducing a new era during a period usually reserved for celebrating the show might be distracting. 

I think casting Tennant was a matter of convenience, and also to make sure the character as a whole is still heading forwards (as opposed to just doing literal Tenth Doctor stories)

[Professor Flibble]

I don’t watch Doctor Who so may I instead take a moment to say how bloody brilliant his ‘Tip Toe’ on Channel 4 is? 

I saw the ending, it traumatised me. He’s excellent at writing these shows, I saw Years and Years…years and years ago, and A Very English Scandal. Both were great.

But I can’t stomach watching most of RTD’s dramas knowing that the main characters end up dying in very real, very brutal, very horrific ways. And you see it happen.

[Podey]

I still have the last episode to go but I don’t think you’ve spoiled anything knowing how many warnings I’ve seen about it being a tough watch (plus the glimpses of that scene).

[Professor Flibble]

I still have the last episode to go but I don’t think you’ve spoiled anything knowing how many warnings I’ve seen about it being a tough watch (plus the glimpses of that scene).

Oh I shouldn’t have assumed you’d actually finished it but yeah I suppose it is teased through the show.

[Technopeasant]

I guess you mean ‘based on’ in the sense of an in-universe adaptation that intentionally takes liberties, but I am still imagining that the Cushing movies were Ian and Barbara’s exact recollections.

I did mean distorted by a script writer yes, but it was worth it for “I’ve never worked in a mine.”

[Dave]

I don’t watch Doctor Who so may I instead take a moment to say how bloody brilliant his ‘Tip Toe’ on Channel 4 is? 

I just started watching that and am enjoying it so far. I first became aware of his work when I watched Queer As Folk in the 90s, which I thought was a brilliant bit of TV, and this almost feels like a spiritual sequel to that but with a very different tone and emphasis.

[cwickham]

The starting point for the 60th anniversary was Tennant and Tate expressing an interest in doing some more TV episodes with RTD, and from there the BBC asked RTD if he’d be interested in coming back as showrunner beyond that. There wasn’t ever going to be a version of the anniversary specials with someone other than Tennant as the Doctor.

[Ben Saunders]

I read that Doctor Who was going to be cancelled after the Chibnall era with an open-ended, cut-to-black regeneration. The only future for the show was the Tennant 60th specials apparently.

[Doomitron]

I read that Doctor Who was going to be cancelled after the Chibnall era with an open-ended, cut-to-black regeneration. The only future for the show was the Tennant 60th specials apparently.

Cutting to black from a regeneration? Open-ended? What were they thinking? Obviously they should’ve ended on a regeneration into Dan Lewis.

[Rushy]

I put zero blame on the Tennant specials. Not that they were perfect, but they restored the ratings to a respectable level. And the people that watched them gave Ncuti a fair shot. It’s not like there was a dramatic drop between The Giggle and the Church on Ruby Road. People wanted to like Doctor Who again. It was everything after that which killed the show. 

[Ben Saunders]

They were good but they did kind of destroy the sanctity of regeneration almost completely. Not just regenerating into a previous actor (oh but the Curator!! — shut up) but then the bigeneration too. It’s like early warning signs of dementia.

[Dave]

I don’t think people would care about that stuff much either way if the stories were good week-to-week. But Gatwa’s era had a lower than usual quality average, with overarching stories that were poorly-conceived and didn’t pay off well, and people turned away from it.

[Professor Flibble]

I quite liked having Tennant as the incumbent Doctor again, but for most of that to be spent waiting for the 3 episodes to come out was a bit of a shame. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I really liked 2 of the 3 episodes with Tennant. Blue Wonder was weak IMO. And having him and Tate back for the 60th is sort of what you have to do for an anniversary. Especially nearly 20 years into a show that succeeded in large part because of Tennant

And it felt like classic RTD in lots of ways. What Ncuti (and his companions) got was mostly fucking abysmal. I really don’t know what RTD was thinking but he clearly had a vision for the show that really didn’t work 

[Dave]

What Ncuti (and his companions) got was mostly fucking abysmal. I really don’t know what RTD was thinking but he clearly had a vision for the show that really didn’t work 

Yeah, I think a combination of that and the apparent production problems that forced changes of emphasis and direction at key moments were a big part of what killed the show. But that’s not to excuse RTD, a lot of his stories were built on bad ideas, poorly executed, and it really felt like it needed somebody above him to intervene and let him know when things weren’t good enough.

[Professor Flibble]

The era started with a character select screen of Tennant standing in space recapping the RTD1 era, then Ncuti’s era started with an episode that barely explained the show’s premise, then the episode that actually did came months later, whittled it all down into one quick speech that explained far more than it needed to, and it was Space Babies. 

So, yeah in terms of the era getting new people in, it was kinda fucked from the get-go.

[Doomitron]

If anyone watches NerdCubed he ranked the NuWho episodes in a tier list but I haven’t had the time to listen to it though (2 fucking hours). I just quickly skipped to the end and jaw dropped from seeing a lot of Capaldi rank lower than nearly of all Gatwa’s run unless he put the episodes he hadn’t seen at the bottom or something. Hell Bent worse than Reality War? Every opinion is valid but you have to draw a line somewhere now.

[Doomitron]

And I say this as someone who’d controversially rank Gatwa above Capaldi (in terms of personality not episode quality).

[Professor Flibble]

It’s hard to rank the New Who finales because I’m not keen on most of them. It’s easier to say which ones I do like. Pretty much The Parting of the Ways and The Big Bang. And I have a soft spot for The Wedding of River Song. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I’d probably rank Ncuti above Jodie, but that’s mostly because I didn’t stop watching Ncuti whereas I did with Jodie 

I went back and caught up on what I’d missed and I find it forgettable. As shit as a lot Ncuti’s episodes were, at least they’re memorable shit. And the good episodes I do think are really quite good. 

[tombow]

I got bored of the first Jodie series but I really enjoyed the special – the one about an American businessman making Dalek police and the real Daleks come and fight them? I want to see the other specials from her era now.

[Dave]

I got bored of the first Jodie series but I really enjoyed the special – the one about an American businessman making Dalek police and the real Daleks come and fight them? I want to see the other specials from her era now.

The one set in a self-storage warehouse is quite good fun.

[Flap Jack]

I’d probably rank Ncuti above Jodie, but that’s mostly because I didn’t stop watching Ncuti whereas I did with Jodie

How far did you get? Because the Gatwa era isn’t even 2/3 as long as the Whittaker era, so it might have been close.

[Doomitron]

Watching Jodie was easier than Gatwa because I never held Chibnall in as high esteem as I did RTD so seeing his writing ability degrade in real time was just painful.

[Professor Flibble]

I like Series 11’s scaled back, episodic approach, and I like Series 13’s Classic-style serialised format and cliffhangers. Series 12 is just the same old 2005 format.

[Rudolph]

It’s been rather interesting to me how similar Russell T. Davies’ statement is to Peter Cregeen’s press release about Doctor Who’s future in 1990:

We are looking for a format to keep Doctor Who on
our screens for the next ten years. This could mean using an independent
production company but as yet no tendering process has been instigated,
although several interested parties have come forward with their own proposals.

[Doomitron]

Which production company will be brave enough to finally get these bad boys on our screens?

[Ben Saunders]

I should have stopped watching Jodie come Kerblam! because it was by then that I’d given up 90% of any hope that I was going to enjoy any of this bullshit. But that 10% kept me coming back. “Oh, it’s Doctor Who, it’s been bad before, but they at least would occasionally come out with a good episode, like Vengeance on Varos during the Sixie years, there’s no reason they couldn’t do it now!”.

But they didn’t.

Gatwa’s stuff was higher quality on average, the only things that really made me go “fucking hell this is shit” were The Devil’s Chord, Empire of Death, The Robot Revolution and The Reality War.

[Doomitron]

Did you not like Demons of the Punjab or The Haunting of Villa Diodati? Those are usually the go-to exceptions with Jodie.

[Professor Flibble]

War of the Sontarans? I think that one’s the best episode of the Chibnall era

[Ben Saunders]

Did you not like Demons of the Punjab or The Haunting of Villa Diodati? Those are usually the go-to exceptions with Jodie.

Not enough to really care about them. Demons was nice enough. Diodati and War (and Time of the Angels) are overshadowed by arc stuff.

[Flap Jack]

Not enough to really care about them. Demons was nice enough. Diodati and War (and Time of the Angels) are overshadowed by arc stuff.

You know the arc is bad when it retroactively overshadows an episode from 8 series previous!

Actually now that I think about it, The Time of Angels kind of was overshadowed by arc stuff too, a little bit. Series 6 and 7 (and The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood) had it way worse though.

[Warbodog]

I’m not troubled by completism, so if I’ve skipped series for a reason, I don’t need to give them a try. There’s also a boycotting aspect that they have higher standards if they’re benefiting from being part of a series/franchise I’ve liked before, that’ll teach ’em.

I liked Jodie’s frog/Eldon episode, but it’s not a ‘Cassandra,’ because I don’t feel like watching it again.

[tombow]

I’ve had the final Capaldi series on dvd (with the companion called Bill) since it first came out and never opened it. Didn’t see any of it on TV either. Might crack it open tonight 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I’ve had the final Capaldi series on dvd (with the companion called Bill) since it first came out and never opened it. Didn’t see any of it on TV either. Might crack it open tonight 

It’s pretty good, especially the final two parter. Cracking stuff.

I’m not troubled by completism, so if I’ve skipped series for a reason, I don’t need to give them a try. There’s also a boycotting aspect that they have higher standards if they’re benefiting from being part of a series/franchise I’ve liked before, that’ll teach ’em.
I liked Jodie’s frog/Eldon episode, but it’s not a ‘Cassandra,’ because I don’t feel like watching it again.

At the point I stopped with Jodie I’d decided to give up on DW entirely. I on,y went back to cover Flux and the specials because RTD was coming back and felt I ought to catch up.

I’d probably rank Ncuti above Jodie, but that’s mostly because I didn’t stop watching Ncuti whereas I did with Jodie
How far did you get? Because the Gatwa era isn’t even 2/3 as long as the Whittaker era, so it might have been close.

I got to the end of her second series, it was with the Timeless child stuff I finally checked out. So granted I probably saw more of Jodie, but I definitely enjoyed more of Ncuti’s doctor. His highs were a lot better. But overall the entire series crashed. Whereas Jodie’s (or Chibnall’s) here’s had lots of steady lows that just made it uninteresting to watch.

[Rudolph]

Something that really stuck out for me with The Devil’s Chord, at the time, was the incredibly ham-fisted contrivance Davies came up with to make a nineteen year old girl from 2020s London a Beatles fan. It felt like a pure, dated pop culture reference from a middle aged boomer.

[Author]

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