Russell Two Davies

[Nick R]

Apparently, today there was some news about a change to Doctor Who’s production staff, in some obscure behind-the-scenes role. I don’t know if anyone else heard about it?

Topic

[cwickham]

Quite enjoying the new batch of novelisations, the Space Babies one even reminds me a bit of the Dwarf ones

[Flap Jack]

His lack of outfit “IS” his outfit, I’d say. Like the Cat, there’s a consistent personality in the fashion, so it’s not like he’s alternating between Colin Baker and Christopher Eccleston (although there’s definite overlap with both, so maybe bad example). There’s lots of orange and a retro 60’s flair to several of his outfits. Also, I imagine that after having spent a lifetime with Donna Noble as the 14th Doctor, she probably finally instilled into him that it’s weird to have only one set of clothes, like she called him out on in Partners in Crime.
His variety of outfits is fine. The sonic screwdriver is weird though. It’s cool that it has the Rwandan saying engraved into it, but that’s a remote control shape, not a screwdriver shape. Even Capaldi’s ridiculous latter-era blue penis screwdriver was at least screwdriver shaped.

I personally do find the inconsistency a bit annoying, even if Gatwa does naturally come across as a fashionable person who would change outfits a lot. But his “main” outfit for marketing purposes, the brown leather coat/stripy top/blue trousers, is plenty Doctor-ish enough I think. Hopefully he wears that more in upcoming series. I think he only wore it in The Church on Ruby Road so far, which is bizarre.

Quite enjoying the new batch of novelisations, the Space Babies one even reminds me a bit of the Dwarf ones

That’s cool to hear. Seems like a bit of a missed opportunity though, as Space Babies and 73 Yards were already in the better half of RTD Series 14 scripts. The Legend of Ruby Sunday and Empire of Death were the ones that could most stand to benefit from being heavily rewritten by someone other than Russell T Davies.

I wonder, does the 73 Yards novelisation offer any explanation for what happens in the episode?

[Technopeasant]

The show never is as good after that fourth episode, with continually
diminishing returns, but those first four episodes are legitimately
worth watching to be sure.

Not even sure I made it that far…

[Warbodog]

I really enjoyed the Reichenbach finale as a TV event (especially in the context of coming soon after The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe that I just hated), don’t know if it actually holds up or not. The Baskerville one was disappointing and boring though. I don’t have much recall after series 3, only vaguely remember the Victorian special and the last island prison one that was apparently part of a full fourth series I’ve otherwise completely blanked. Probably because I was done following previews, reactions and reviews for all shows on Den of Geek, Reddit etc. by that point, so things proved memorable or forgettable on their merits rather than being analysed regardless.

[Ben Saunders]

Well that was all very pleasant, wasn’t it. Lovely bit of mawkish sentimentality to fall half-asleep to after Christmas dinner (we actually watched it about an hour later on Sky+ because airing Dr Who at 5.10 is MADNESS.)

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

It was very moving. A fun and simple story with a bit of pent up rage from Moffat coming out. 

I do enjoy it when Moffat domesticate the Doctor. And that took up a fair bit of the episode. 

Really liked Annetta. I’d like to see her again. 

[Technopeasant]

I don’t watch the modern show, but I’ll just pop in to complain about Davies ruining a funny fan joke (putting later Doctors into the Troughton picking faces scene) by actually making it canon in The War Games In Colour….

[Dave]

Is it considered as canon by fans? I’d assume the original version takes precedence rather than being overwritten.

[Ridley]

Could have done without the last two locations being captioned.

[Flap Jack]

I enjoyed this one for sure. The reliance on plot points being essentially magic persists, but otherwise it was a fun time, with a surprise sting of political fury. As it’s Doctor Who though, I will of course pick some spoilery nits:

– Oh no, The Doctor is stuck in Christmas 2024 and has to wait for Christmas 2025 to escape! If only he knew someone living in 2020s London who had a spare TARDIS. Alas.

– This makes 2 Moffat episodes in a row where a character dies but saves the day later as a digital/hologram version of themselves. I mean it’s fine, but when Moffat cannibalised his own ideas before, we had to tolerate it because he was the showrunner and he was understandably overburdened with scripting duties. Now he’s back to being a guest writer, RTD can probably demand an ounce more originality. (Also: Villengard again. Incredibly, that’s actually 3 episodes in a row, because it was a factor in Twice Upon a Time as well.)

– I am getting pretty tired of the cliche where The Doctor just happens to be between companions for a bit, and suddenly it’s treated as though he’s made a commitment to loneliness as a lifestyle and has to learn a whole lesson about the power of friendship. He’s travelling with someone in 99% of episodes! I think he knows!

– With that final caption, I could feel Steven Moffat’s smugness radiating through the screen. The cherry on top of the cake that was “Of course… Joy! JOY TO THE WORLD. LIKE IN THE TITLE OF THE EPISODE.“

– Such bizarre declarations about hotel rooms. “Your choice of hotel room truly reveals who you are, unlike a house”. Hey, quick question – what the fuck are you talking about? Not to mention the idea that Joy’s hotel room was suggested to be the most dismal and lonely hotel room in the country, when it’s just a completely normal looking hotel room.

– Why even make it a point that the time hotel creates doors that are always locked and lead nowhere to use as portals, if you’re just going to show the time hotel using the normal entrances for some of the places?

– I was watching with my family, and after the end my sister said “So Villengard… won?” and I offered a rationalisation that The Doctor and Joy’s meddling would have made them lose track of the briefcase and its contents, but honestly I wasn’t fully convinced myself.

– Another recurring Moffat-ism: boostrap paradoxes. Very cute to include dialogue suggesting that only the time hotel making the time periods exist at the same time made it possible, as if they weren’t all over the place in his regular time travel episodes.

– So Joy just went missing one day, and seemingly nobody noticed or cared that she was gone, at least not enough for it to factor into the story. That makes her whole deal even more sad.

[Dave]

I thought it was OK and had some fun moments and enjoyable stretches, particularly that Long Way Round middle section. But at the same time it was also one of those rare Moffat episodes that veers a bit towards RTD’s worst tendencies of having everything not really make sense and add up, but trying to coast on pure emotion at the end. OK for a festive episode but not a great Doctor Who story overall.

Most of all though it suffered from being shown back-to-back with the new Wallace & Gromit, which was fucking excellent. 

[Dave]

– Such bizarre declarations about hotel rooms. “Your choice of hotel room truly reveals who you are, unlike a house”. Hey, quick question – what the fuck are you talking about?

Yeah, this was just bollocks.

[Dave]

– I was watching with my family, and after the end my sister said “So Villengard… won?”

Yeah, the Villengard plot seems to just completely disappear halfway through. Really weird.

[Spaceworm Jim]

Loved it. Thought the Villengard was foiled by the star being released from captivity by Joy? Eh, I don’t care either way. Enjoyed the episode.

Hope everyone had a good Christmas and has a wonderful new year. Apologies to those who didn’t or won’t. 

[Technopeasant]

Is it considered as canon by fans? I’d assume the original version takes precedence rather than being overwritten.

More canon than a YouTube video, from where it was scalped.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

In fairness, they did make a few trims and change a few things. I noticed for that tracking shot of the TARDIS materializing they used an alternate matte of the woods to fill in where the shot ends – presumably because they had access to the master shots and thus would be able to reference that for a more accurate recreation, whereas with The Confession Dial’s version you can make out where the join is, even if it’s somewhat feathered.

[Technopeasant]

Sure, but you would kind of at least expect them to do that much.
And as far as fanboyish goes, there is also musically implying the War Chief is the Master (I kind of prefer him having started as the Meddling Monk), which again is cute as a fan theory, but a bit ick to be so on the nose about in an official production.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

The music cue is a bit on the nose but they did at least leave it ambiguous enough as to be somewhat open to interpretation.

[Unrumble]

I’ll go with Dave’s assertion that, as with The Daleks last year, these colourisations are effectively fun, one-off glorified fan edits, rather than any attempt to change canon, George Lucas style.

[Technopeasant]

I honestly wouldn’t mind if people didn’t keep framing them as the way to introduce them to new fans.

For the record, I have no objection to colourization, and I understand trimming them down to cut costs, but it does make The War Games an especially poor choice to do, especially when adding new scenes into it.

Switching from serials to episodes is part of the reason I don’t watch the new series.

[Flap Jack]

OK. I have now watched ‘The Robot Revolution’.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I did enjoy the episode quite a bit. But outright saying “planet of incels” or whatever the line was, was a bit much

Especially when that wasn’t really what the episode was even doing. It was just a jilted lover who liked video games. It didn’t need the extra layer that didn’t really exist

But otherwise one of the better episodes of this second RTD run I think. Just a straight forward Doctor Who story with a bit of mystery set up.

It all looked so great too. That AI Alan thing, the big clumsy robots were all great designs 

Bel looks to be a great companion, particularly as she’s been dragged along for the ride and doesn’t want to be there.

[Flap Jack]

Well, based on your reaction I’m now wondering if RTD was actually too subtle. Alan wasn’t just motivated by bitterness over being rejected by Belinda, they spell out pretty explicitly that his pre-existing misogyny and desire to control women was what gave him the impulse to become a bloodthirsrty authoritarian ruler.

Overall, solid episode! I only have a couple of significant complaints:

– I am still so tired of this mystery box shite. I don’t need an explanation for Belinda looking identical to Varada Sethu’s character in ‘Boom’ any more than I needed an explanation for why Amy Pond looked identical to Karen Gillan’s character in ‘The Fires of Pompeii’ (or why the Sixth Doctor looked like Commander Maxil, why Lethbridge-Stewart looked like Bret Vyon etc. etc), and if Belinda has cosmic importance then it’s got to be a trascendentally good story for it to be worth it. Otherwise, I’m OK with Mrs. Flood’s continued appearances but I wish she’d lay off the fourth wall.

– Lots of things seemed very rushed. They really pushed the tragedy of Sasha 55, but we barely knew her and she barely did anything. “She was nice to me”. I mean… I guess? Mostly she was just asking for help while being controlled by the robots. I suppose we’re meant to sympathise with Manny blaming Belinda because of his grief, but she genuinely did nothing wrong, so he just seems like an arsehole. Bel also seems to have this sudden revelation that everything is her fault and thus she owes it to the planet to surrender, but… it isn’t? I mean it kind of is because of her sending the robots to Alan, but this was before that revelation. And in general she acclimatises to the alien planet shockingly quick.

[Ridley]

Otherwise, I’m OK with Mrs. Flood’s continued appearances but I wish she’d lay off the fourth wall.

They’re presumably linked.

Re: Sasha. She may as well have just introduced herself as a Big Finish box set but she did her job of showing that hanging with the Doctor is dangerous.

[Dave]

I thought it was a pretty average episode, but fun enough to introduce a new companion and with a nice kitsch 1950s sci-fi vibe.

In some ways it almost felt like RTD trying to do a Moffat-style episode, with some knotty time-travel logic as well as a couple of examples of clever-clever wordplay.

The new companion seems decent enough and the setup of the big series arc is OK as far as it goes, but I’m not going to be investing in that at all after how last time panned out.

Overall I don’t think this is going to win over anyone who hasn’t enjoyed Gatwa’s run so far, but I enjoyed it well enough.

[Flap Jack]

Re: Sasha. She may as well have just introduced herself as a Big Finish box set but she did her job of showing that hanging with the Doctor is dangerous.

My feeling was that Sasha didn’t show “hanging with The Doctor is dangerous” but rather “hanging with The Doctor won’t necessarily save you”. After all, the rebellion pre-dated The Doctor’s arrival on the planet, Sasha was already a part of it, and a bunch of other rebels who were not close friends with The Doctor also died. But Sasha was a leader so I guess her life just has inherently more value than everyone else’s.

From Belinda’s perspective too, she was already in danger and The Doctor showing up was what helped save her.

Not that it’s bad that this is the message, it’s valid too. Either way I’m looking forward to Doctor and companion having some friction as the series goes on. Series 14 skipping to the point where The Doctor and Ruby are just effortlessly the best of chums was not especially engaging.

[Jonsmad]

Back to Earth, Mugs Murphy, Back In the Red plasticine bit they all want a word with you Doctor. (And Gremains 2 & the end bit of Inglorious B*steeds are in the queue & all)

[Dave]

The effects in Lux were amazing, and with better writing it could have been a belter of an episode. But like the worst RTD, nothing really meant anything or followed any kind of logic, and it all ended up feeling like it disappeared up its own arse.

[Ben Saunders]

I almost don’t want to watch this series in case it’s crap, because then it will be truly over. For a few years at least.

[Rushy]

I know it sounds miserable, but I’ve watched nothing since Church of Ruby Road and I lost faith in the show as far back as series 6. It’s just become so far removed from everything I loved about Doctor Who. Going back to rewatch Hartnell and pretty much every single episode has more depth and thought put into it than anything the show has done in years. It makes me sad. 

I’m not a Nerdrotic type by any means, but the quality of dialogue and plotting can’t be compared at all to what it used to be. 

[sleepey]

First act was really good but as soon as he did the laugh I lost interest. The IRL scene went on about 3x longer than it should have & I’m glad they’re dead. The villain’s demise was good-weird imo & it almost won me back but then Mrs Flood came out to reiterate the series arc for the 700th time.

A few weak episodes don’t bother me tbh, even a run of them. The show’s always been a bit of a rollercoaster & last year had some all-time bangers. Always hopeful for next week!

[Dave]

last year had some all-time bangers

I think Boom is the only one from the Gatwa era that I would ever choose to revisit.

[Jonsmad]

IRL Scene… & I’m glad they’re dead

Ah you didn’t stay for the credits then. Don’t blame you. 

Then Mrs Flood came out to reiterate the series arc for the 700th time.

With the amount the show borrows from things Red Dwarf used to do I’m just hoping she’s not a psiren at this double series arc that doesn’t move forward at all stage!!  She was not real in Eastenders the other week, does she actually exist?  

I do enjoy the show still, I am liking the pantheon linked villains arc more than Mrs Flood stuff. That’s done through all 3 runs of RTD2 thus far. I wouldn’t even mind a sea god in the spin off next year. But I approach the show differently these days cus I’m old and I’ve just seen so much of it. This felt like Idiot Lantern 2, which is fine. 

[sleepey]

Ah you didn’t stay for the credits then. Don’t blame you.

I did, but that just means they stopped existing after that scene instead of the other one

[Ridley]

I do enjoy the show still, I am liking the pantheon linked villains arc more than Mrs Flood stuff. That’s done through all 3 runs of RTD2 thus far. I wouldn’t even mind a sea god in the spin off next year.

What if Mrs Flood is the sea god of spinoffs?

[Flap Jack]

Absolutely loved the concept and the execution of Mr. Ring-a-Ding/Lux, but I agree that it did feel like it was lacking a cohesive throughline about films or about stories in general that would have elevated it to greatness.

– I didn’t mind the whole Fourth Wall break sequence, but it would have been way funnier to me if they encountered more casual fans rather than hardcore ones. That would really break you – not only are you not real, but people don’t even care about you that much as fictional characters.

– One drawback of the Doctor Who viewer characters is that it now feels like falling into a trap if we make the same criticisms they made. Like yeah, why does Lux switch from trapping The Doctor and Belinda in a film to wanting to absorb The Doctor’s life essence?

– The Doctor and Belinda make a whole thing about getting changed for 1952 Miami, but it’s the dead of night and they only need to be there for a few minutes to calibrate the V.Indicator.

– Hard to judge with my English ears, but Lux was the only American-accented character who actually sounded authentic… ironically, considering he wasn’t played by an American and he was a cartoon.

– I know the episode was probably using way too much budget as it was, but it does seem like a bit of a missed opportunity that they get trapped in a film, but just spend some time on a generic animated backdrop instead of actually having to deal with the plot of a film happening around them. And they could have made it a live-action film and saved the expense of making Belinda and The Doctor animated.

– The thing Lux doesn’t do is go outside, and the reason he doesn’t is because of sunlight, but… it’s night? I get that Pye was sort of trapping him there by showing him movies, but given his self-awareness and intelligence, it seems odd that he can be tricked like a moth.

– I’ll accept that old film stock is highly flammable, but does it really go off like a bomb? Pyrotechnics experts please chime in.

– The Doctor insisting that Lux has to tell him how he can be defeated irks me, because why would he? It’s kind of the issue with all the villains in this pantheon of gods concept – the rules feel way more arbitrary than usual. Still, at least the “harbinger” appearance this time was a little more subtle than just giving a side character the surname “Arbinger”.

– The bit where Belinda and The Doctor literally become 3D by expressing 1 additional emotion each felt cheap (and also a bit mean to cartoons?), like RTD was patting himself on the back for including the most basic and obvious level of characterisation. Perhaps it’s just me, but these kind of emotions seem like the difference between 1 dimensional and 2 dimensional characters, not 2 and 3. “I didn’t feel comfortable telling someone I just met that my entire family is dead” isn’t exactly Mad Men level character nuance. And Belinda being scared and worried that The Doctor won’t be able to get her home isn’t deep, it’s the most surface level thing she could possibly be feeling! That whole scene pretty much gave me this reaction:

– When The Doctor and Belinda are animated, it’s in a more Hanna-Barbera style, which is off base because that’s cheap 60s TV animation, not the high quality cinematic animation that the episode is actually riffing on. I guess they were trying to save money compared to Mr. Ring-a-Ding, but if it doesn’t fit they just shouldn’t have bothered.

– The Doctor having just enough residual energy left over from his regeneration to heal a burn seems so stupid. At least in The Christmas Invasion it was only a matter of hours later, but this was years ago from his perspective now, and he just hasn’t been injured at all in that time? Come on, Doctor Who, if you want to make it a plot point that The Doctor’s hand gets burned, just keep the fake injury make-up on Ncuti’s hand for the rest of the episode.

– Last week I was looking forward to a Doctor/companion relationship with a bit more friction to it, but this week they rushed to have Belinda not only trust The Doctor, but actually apologise for not trusting him sooner! And on the back of basically nothing? So disappointing. Maybe the dynamic still has potential despite this, but it does seem awfully like RTD is hurrying to get them into an “uncomplicated best buds” set up, because it’s easier to write.

– The invisible hand of the writer has barely been more visible than with the establishing of the “vortex indicator” concept. Like yeah, of course you wouldn’t tackle the destruction of Earth until the finale, but you could have had more fun with the sidetracking than this. “Sorry, this machine says we have to have exactly 5 more unrelated adventures before you can go home” is just so blatant. Also, still no mention of the most obvious solution – trying to go to Earth on May 23rd or May 25th 2025 instead.

[Dave]

When The Doctor and Belinda are animated, it’s in a more Hanna-Barbera style, which is off base because that’s cheap 60s TV animation, not the high quality cinematic animation that the episode is actually riffing on. I guess they were trying to save money compared to Mr. Ring-a-Ding, but if it doesn’t fit they just shouldn’t have bothered.

I took this to be a continuation of the Scooby Doo references.

[Dave]

One drawback of the Doctor Who viewer characters is that it now feels like falling into a trap if we make the same criticisms they made. Like yeah, why does Lux switch from trapping The Doctor and Belinda in a film to wanting to absorb The Doctor’s life essence?

I’ve seen stories in various media do this – incorporate criticisms in the hope that it somehow invalidates them in the real world. I don’t think it ever works. RTD’s writing has been noticeably shaky since the relaunch, lampshading that fact doesn’t improve it.

[Flap Jack]

I took this to be a continuation of the Scooby Doo references.

Oh, yes, I’m sure it was. But I see the references and the animation style as one connected creative decision, which I disagree with.

In continuity, the reason that the animation is in a Scooby Doo-esque style is because the characters had it on their minds, but it wasn’t on their minds for anything especially related to the cinema cartoon concept, and if they had randomly brought up The Simpsons or Steven Universe or Dragon Ball Z instead, no way would they have been animated in those styles. RTD knew it needed to be a retro cartoon but figured he could get fuzzy on exactly how retro. But I just happen to know that there’s a big difference between these two eras of animation so it was still a bit jarring.

And in general it just would have been more fun as an idea if they were trapped in an actual film that the picture house had, instead of just throwing something generic together based on The Doctor and Belinda’s imaginations.

[Rudolph]

Also, still no mention of the most obvious solution – trying to go to Earth on May 23rd or May 25th 2025 instead

It’s like they haven’t learnt their lesson from The Angels Take Manhattan. The Doctor says there he can’t now take the TARDIS back to New York, 1938 without causing some catastrophe. A lot of people pointed out at the time, that if that was the case, why didn’t he just go back to New Jersey, 1938 and catch a train in?

[Technopeasant]

What, and pay the fare?

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Me read on these dates/places the Doctor can’t visit is that there’s a general bubble around them that makes going earlier/further away and waiting/traveling not possible. 

The Doctor did say the bounced right off 2025 and landed in 1952 so apparently, for now, that’s as close as they can get. 

It’s a bit silly. But if I can suspend my disbelief enough for a man in a larger on the inside police box travelling through time, I can ignore this too. 

[Ben Saunders]

Seventeen minutes in to episode one. He’s bloody crying again!

[Ben Saunders]

The Robot Revolution just finished… someone come take Doctor Who away from this old man’s hands, please.

[Ian Symes]

You’re all a bunch of miserable bastards. I’ve really enjoyed both episodes so far.

[Flap Jack]

Me, a miserable bastard? Don’t make me laugh!

I did genuinely really enjoy both episodes too, especially Lux. I’m just lazy and it’s way easier to go into detail about negatives and nitpicks than positives. Fandom toxicity in action arguably, but that’s why I post these ramblings in a forum instead of exposing myself to the sunlight of a weblog. Like Mr. Ring-a-Ding himself I wouldn’t be able to handle it.

Looking back I think the only RTD2 episodes that have actually been bad were The Legend of Ruby Sunday and Empire of Death.

[Renegade Rob]

Looking back I think the only RTD2 episodes that have actually been bad were The Legend of Ruby Sunday and Empire of Death.

Yeah, definitely agree on that front. I might add The Devil’s Chord to the ones I actively didn’t care for, but even that had some bright spots (whereas Legend of Ruby Sunday and Empire of Death were pure misfires). So far, this era is fine. The seasons are way too short though, which puts too much pressure on individual episodes. These episodes look SO good, but I’d rather the budget be spent on more episodes than adding more robots and special effects. Thirteen episodes per season, is that really too much to ask for? 

[Ben Saunders]

Compared to seemingly every other show that has one season every three-to-four years at this point, we’re lucky just to get annual installments. But yes, the reduced episode count makes it harder to care about any of these characters because you just don’t get as much time with them and why would you invest in somebody who’s going to be gone six episodes from now. 

I didn’t dislike “season one” or whatever it’s supposed to be, but it was only really a breath of fresh air in comparison to the sludge we were fed for a half-decade previously. RTD feels a little tired at this point, and you can feel the machinations of the story trudging along.

It’s astonishing how little characterisation Al got in The Robot Revolution, really. Maybe they could have wasted less time by having it be every sixth word the robots couldn’t hear instead of every ninth. That scene felt like it believed itself to be extremely clever and was patting itself on the back for it but it really, really dragged on. “It insists upon itself”. Plus the Doctor is like, really happy that somebody who was asking for his help just got glooped.

[Ben Saunders]

Lux looks like it should be a more interesting episode, but I decided not to watch it right after Robots until I’d cheered the hell up. Don’t want to go into it pre-annoyed.

[Ben Saunders]

Alright alright, Lux was goated, I apologise for my previous insults towards Russel The Davies. Last week felt like he was tired but this week felt like he was bursting with new and innovative ideas and actually succeeding at what he is trying to do with the whole gods thing. There’s a confidence and a flair to Lux that was totally absent from The Robot Revolution. More like this, please!

[Author]

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