The Classic Doctor Who Thread (1963 to 1989/1996)

[By Jove its holmes]

Fact of the Day: Tom Baker was the first DW series lead who wasn’t a veteran of the Second World War. He had the mercy of a late birth.

Topic

[tombow]

I was genuinely disturbed by the late 80s Two Ronnies Christmas Special, which took the form of a parody horror film about Pinocchio, Corbett as the puppet, Barker as Ghepetto, with him being pervy and killing people with laser eyes. I was already scared enough of the Disney film, so that pushed me over the edge. I sat and watched it, during a new years dinner with parents friends, on a tiny b&w TV in the dining room while the adults were chatting. The first half is on YouTube and it still is strange imo.

[Technopeasant]

Kinda is a bizarre story. Not sure what to make of it. Flashes of Five hating his companions, and lashings of his companions hating each other. A sickeningly sweet wrap-up ending reminiscent of the Pertwee era. The least convincing giant snake ever televised. Matthew Waterhouse “acting”.

[Ben Saunders]

Earthshock is not quite as engaging at 31 as it was at 11, but it’s still enjoyable. Using the fact that Adric’s star for mathematical excellence is made of gold as a weapon against the Cybermen is fantastic Chekhov’s Gun stuff, from one season and two script editors prior. I really like this Cyberman getting stuck in the door shield, and I love how it’s always been obvious that the final shot of episode 3 is just the same shot duplicated three times.

[Rushy]

I’ve never been able to stand this one. Two episodes of boring drivel in caves followed by lots of running around followed by scenes of Beryl Reid wandering around a show she has no business being in. One scene of the Doctor confronting the Leader and Adric dying, and suddenly everyone’s up in arms talking about this as if it were Genesis of the Daleks.

[Professor Flibble]

Rewatching Greatest Show in the Galaxy, fantastic stuff. The McCoy era really is just perfect Doctor Who.

[Rushy]

Rewatching Greatest Show in the Galaxy, fantastic stuff. The McCoy era really is just perfect Doctor Who.

Now here is a gentleman after my own heart. The McCoy era is art. Very few missteps. The real McCoy, to coin a phrase. 

[Doomitron]

Earthshock is not quite as engaging at 31 as it was at 11, but it’s still enjoyable. Using the fact that Adric’s star for mathematical excellence is made of gold as a weapon against the Cybermen is fantastic Chekhov’s Gun stuff, from one season and two script editors prior. I really like this Cyberman getting stuck in the door shield, and I love how it’s always been obvious that the final shot of episode 3 is just the same shot duplicated three times.

The Earthshock Cyberman design has always been my favorite. Its so charming.

[Flap Jack]

Love Earthshock. Sure, there may be a significant amount of running around in caves, but it never stops being engaging. And this is actually the only thing I’ve seen Beryl Reid in, so as far as I’m concerned Captain Briggs was her playing to type! I never had a problem with her performance, or felt like it didn’t make sense for a woman in her 60s to be that kind of character. If I recall correctly, the behind the scenes coverage talked about Reid being bemused by the material, but she clearly threw herself into it.

Earthshock was one of the earliest classic serials I watched, possibly even in the very first batch, and compared to some of the others it gave me a solidly positive impression of Classic Who and whetted my appetite for more. Now that I’ve actually seen much more I don’t rank it as one of the best ever, but it was still really good. I was especially impressed by the belated work to make Adric a likeable, helpful and believable friend of The Doctor, and his departure was genuinely upsetting. If he had been done away with at the end of Four to Doomsday I would have been actively cheering.

Also, I know there’s not much competition, but Earthshock: best colour Cyberman story of the classic era? Not in spite of David Banks’ hammy Cyber Leader performance either, because of it. I don’t care that it doesn’t make sense with the way Cybermen are meant to be, it’s too iconic.

[Warbodog]

I’m afraid most of 80s Who is in the “what were they thinking?” bin for me, but McCoy crawls out of that and I’ve watched those a few times. Even his shit ones get away with being so-bad-they’re-funny more than the rest of the decade does (with the exception of the irredeemable Time and the Rani).

[Professor Flibble]

Greatest Show in the Galaxy has some great characters in it, particularly Mags
She absolutely should’ve been a companion and I’m glad Big Finish had the common sense to make her one.
It’s surprising how little interaction there is between the Doctor and the Chief Clown considering (aside from the Gods of Ragnarok) he’s sort of the poster villain. The Whizz Kid reminds me a bit too much of myself, but I do find him absolutely hilarious. They were planning to make Captain Cook abusive towards Mags but I’m glad they didn’t because it would’ve been a step too far, I think. And I enjoy him as just a bit of an ignorant bastard.

Incidentally, Danny John Jules was considered for the Ringmaster, and Francesca Folan (Rimmer’s Camille) was considered for Mags. Interesting how it could’ve been the Doctor Who story with the strongest ties to Red Dwarf in its cast.

The McCoy era, even in Season 24, knows how to use its budget, and it means that every story just looks fantastic. Greatest Show is no exception, there’s nothing unconvincing about it. And the circus model is seamless, i’ve never noticed the joins.
There’s something quite melancholic about the fact this is the last time we see the classic console room in all its glory. In Battlefield, it’s drenched in darkness to the point you can hardly see it. 
The whole final act is why I love McCoy’s Doctor so much, this nerdy little man in his funny jumper and umbrella taking down gods. It’s been said many times but the shot of him walking out of the circus as it explodes behind him is one of the greatest shots in Doctor Who history.

Also, have to say, Mark Ayres’ score is excellent. Part 3’s cliffhanger music being a particular highlight. 

[Warbodog]

TGSITG is my second favourite of his after the Dalek one. I don’t normally like Dalek ones, which is how good that one is.

McCoy also has (I think) the winning structure of three and four parters, so everything feels the right length.

It also helps that the era nostalgically evokes the 1987-89 TV vibe of my early childhood, from CBBC dramas to Pat Sharp’s Funhouse.

[Professor Flibble]

TGSITG is my second favourite of his after the Dalek one. I don’t normally like Dalek ones, which is how good that one is.

The Happiness Patrol is my favourite McCoy story but it’s very close. 

McCoy also has (I think) the winning structure of three and four parters, so everything feels the right length.

Yeah, and with each season having 4 stories, it’s very consistently good.

It also helps that the era nostalgically evokes the 1987-89 TV vibe of my early childhood, from CBBC dramas to Pat Sharp’s Funhouse.

Yeah! I was thinking while watching it there’s a lot of early 90s British kids TV shows I’ve seen that have the same kind of feel.

[Rushy]

And I enjoy him as just a bit of an ignorant bastard. 

Isn’t the whole point of his character that he’s really not ignorant at all? He’s sort of meant to be a dark parallel to the Seventh Doctor in that he acts the buffoon while playing chess with other people’s lives. He knows exactly what he’s doing. 

[Ben Saunders]

I like The Greatest Show In The Galaxy for three episodes, before it descends into Sylvester McCoy gurning, playing the spoons and vomiting up an egg like he’s a Sensational Reverse Brother. Three episodes of spooky atmosphere and creepy clowns, then… that. Yikes!

McCoy is probably my least favourite Doctor. He has a couple good moments like his Dalek episode, telling the guy to end his life in the Thatcher story and sometimes acting a bit mysterious. But something like Battlefield is dire, with him shouting STOP FIGHTING!!, I can’t take him seriously.

I like the holiday camp one. The episode that made my dad give up on Doctor Who because it had Bonnie Langford AND Ken Dodd in it. It was too much for him.

Earthshock was also one of the first classics I watched, I think they gave it away free with a newspaper around the time of Series One (2005). 

[Doomitron]

McCoy is my favorite Doctor but that’s fueled to a large degree by the VNAs and Big Finish, his Classic Who stories are hit-and-miss for me. Ghostlight and Silver Nemesis are both colossal nonsense and most of S24 is horrible or forgettable (I have a soft spot for Paradise Towers). Remembrance is spectacular though and I’ve always loved Survival.

[Ben Saunders]

Ghostlight and Silver Nemesis are both colossal nonsense

A fellow Ghost Light denier A lot of people love that one, and I wonder if it’s because they have read the novelisation and so know what the hell is going on. And I’ve often wondered how much of the fan praise for McCoy is a result of the expanded media stuff. I haven’t heard him on audio outisde of the first Big Finish with the three of them, but I have heard both Davison and Colin Baker who excel in that format. Spare Parts, Jubilee, Legend of the Cybermen, Doctor Who and the Pirates, Psychodrome, Whispers of Terror. Tom Baker on the other hand doesn’t amaze me on audio, but he has nothing to make up for. Energy of the Daleks and Foe From The Future are the two I checked out. I’ve definitely heard Sirens of Time but I don’t remember anything about it. I think Creatures of Beauty was pretty good. I’m jumping around here.

[Doomitron]

There’s so much great work in Big Finish with the Doctors, especially the JNT ones, with 7 I think my favorites are Colditz, Afterlife, Cold Fusion (this one has Davison in it too, adapted from the VNA), Fires of Vulcan, Live 34, and Gods and Monsters to name but a few. I don’t think I’ve ever listened to a BF story with 4 outside Light at the End which was the big 50th anniversary special with all the Classic Doctors, they’ve never interested me.

[Professor Flibble]

McCoy is probably my least favourite Doctor. 

[Professor Flibble]

I appreciate McCoy based entirely on his TV stuff. The VNAs have always sounded like utter wank to me, and from what I’ve heard they absolutely butcher his Doctor.

[Rushy]

 McCoy is probably my least favourite Doctor. 

[Warbodog]

Ghost Light is like one of the more tolerable-length Sapphire and Steels, it’s about the atmosphere and being creeped out more than entertained.

Paradise Towers and The Happiness Patrol are fun if you buy into their colourful camp, like RTD stuff. I find Dragonfire and Delta and the Bannermen more flawed, but good to laugh at.

Silver Nemesis and Battlefield hint at being more clever than they turned out, but they have that watchable CBBC style.

The Curse of Fenric is good, but maybe getting too dark. Survival is just okay, but refreshingly straightforward at the end. Solid era.

[Warbodog]

I listened to all the Big Finish Lost Stories (that were released as of 10 years ago, anyway), but they didn’t give me much of an idea of what Season 27 would have been like, because they were making most of it up. The return of the Ice Warriors, now obsessed with fish fingers, and the Doctor and his new, reformed-criminal companion going undercover a lot.

[Ben Saunders]

Oh yeah, Fenric is good.

I have tried listening to The Nightmare Fair twice and never made it past episode one.

[tombow]

I’m reading the original novelisation of The Sun Makers and quite enjoying it

I also read Face of Evil before watching it ..I’m glad I watched it, as some bits were a a little unclear – like that challenge where he had to be on platforms over snakes and shoot the rope was a bit confusing in text form. There were a few funny moments and lines not in the book too. (Such as Leela trying to revive him with a jelly baby). I liked being able to visualise bigger effects/sets though.

[Doomitron]

I listened to all the Big Finish Lost Stories (that were released as of 10 years ago, anyway), but they didn’t give me much of an idea of what Season 27 would have been like, because they were making most of it up. The return of the Ice Warriors, now obsessed with fish fingers, and the Doctor and his new, reformed-criminal companion going undercover a lot.

It’s hard to picture what S27 would’ve been like since Cartmel was leaving at the end of S26 regardless if it got renewed or not. I haven’t listened to the Lost Stories but I assume they touch upon Ace being sent to Gallifrey which I don’t know if that would’ve actually happened or not.

[Doomitron]

The Nightmare Fair twice and never made it past episode one.

I’ve been meaning to listen to Mission to Magnus if only because I want to also listen to Antidote to Oblivion and from what little I know it directly follows up on certain events in it. I’ve heard negative things about Magnus, but I’m a Philip Martin defender at least when it comes to Mindwarp and The Creed of Kromon, so maybe I’ll be contrary with that too.

[Warbodog]

Ace being sent to Gallifrey which I don’t know if that would’ve actually happened or not.

Big Finish ignored that so they could keep Sophie Aldred in it. Who I always take a few episodes to get used to, since she’s still mainly the Words and Pictures etc. lady from school TV.

[Professor Flibble]

Never bought the whole Ace becoming a Time Lord thing. 

But what I don’t get is why Big Finish haven’t done a definitive Ace departure story. I mean, I certainly don’t think they have. Didn’t they even alter Love and War’s ending so she stays? 

[Doomitron]

With how many different interpretations there are and the fact they’ll probably going to contort it to fit the canon established by Power of the Doctor in whatever way, I don’t think a definitive one from Big Finish would be an attractive notion for them or most people. I personally prefer the VNA canon for how she left, and they’re not going to be adapting that anyway. I’m more baffled they’ve never gotten around to adapting Unusual Business to finally canonize a Mel introduction.

[Ben Saunders]

That final episode of Earthshock really is fantastic. Like I said, it’s a very tightly written script. The freighter being what killed the dinosaurs is great, the inevitability of (spoilers!) Adric’s death. I know they nicked the silent credits thing from Eastenders or something, but it’s really affecting. It’s quite the achievement to actually make the audience mourn the loss of someone so petty and annoying. Eric Saward did a great job of jamming all that character development into the boy’s final story and actually giving us somewhat of an emotional connection to him.

The effect of the freighter “crashing into Earth” (exploding randomly in space for no reason) is extremely poor, though.

[Ben Saunders]

As bad as I know the rest of Time-Flight is, I still think the first episode is really rather good. There’s one dodgy CSO shot of them all arriving in the past, and the extremely questionable disguise & voice the Master has put on for whatever reason, but apart from that it’s great.

[Ben Saunders]

It turns out Time-Flight is pretty good actually. I must have fallen for the fan narrative again. Davison is becoming more comfortable in the role, there’s a little more comedy and I love the cliffhanger of Tegan getting left behind.

[Dave]

https://pixelframe.design/doctor-who-font-logo-generator/

Potentially dangerous.

[Dave]

[Flap Jack]

I’ll just get this one out of the way.

The logo really doesn’t work when the second word is longer than the first…

[Flap Jack]

OK, it was literally impossible not to do more.

[Professor Flibble]

[Professor Flibble]

[Warbodog]

They’ve got some very niche generators on there catering for the tens of people who are still fans of Street Sharks etc.

[Dave]

I’ll just get this one out of the way.

The logo really doesn’t work when the second word is longer than the first…

[Dave]

Talking of which, this is nice.

[cwickham]

[Flap Jack]

[Technopeasant]

I’ve never been able to stand this one. Two episodes of boring drivel in caves followed by lots of running around followed by scenes of Beryl Reid wandering around a show she has no business being in. One scene of the Doctor confronting the Leader and Adric dying, and suddenly everyone’s up in arms talking about this as if it were Genesis of the Daleks.

There are no good colour Cyberman episodes. Full stop.

David Banks provides a very engaging villain performance, but is utterly wrong for a Cyberman.

Of them all, Attack is probably the best just for the sheer braggadocio and because I like the Cryons.

[Rushy]

I unashamedly love Silver Nemesis. I enjoy it more than Remembrance of the Daleks. But in fairness, it’s not really because of the Cybermen, they’re just one part of it.

[Technopeasant]

Silver Nemesis’ problem is it has too many good subplots but not enough time, like a Dave Dwarf episode. I’d have cut out the neo-Nazis and just focused on Lady Peinforte. Ace with slingshot does beat Ace with a baseball bat yes, even if the gold allergy bit was always deeply silly.

[Doomitron]

There are no good colour Cyberman episodes. Full stop.

Is that really unique to them though? Looking back at the B&W era, beyond The Tenth Planet and Tomb, they’re not much better. The Wheel in Space is arguably the worst Classic Who Cybermen story.

[Rushy]

The Wheel in Space is arguably the best Classic Who Cybermen story.

I’m so glad sanity prevails!

[Technopeasant]

Is that really unique to them though? Looking back at the B&W era, beyond The Tenth Planet and Tomb, they’re not much better. The Wheel in Space is arguably the worst Classic Who Cybermen story.

Quite possible, my Troughton experience has gotten rusty, but I just remember in general them having an eerier vibe in black and white. Slower walk, monotone voice, etc.

[Flap Jack]

The Moonbase is so-so, but The Invasion is great! Quite frankly I’ve had enough of these blasphemous hot takes. We’re in a heatwave. Give me your cold, mainstream, agreeable takes please.

[Author]

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