Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions

[Piplup2003]

The title says it all. What opinions do you have about Red Dwarf that no-one else seems to agree on?

For me, it’s that VIII is my second favourite series (behind V) and that I prefer Chloë over Claire as Kochanski (this may be partially influenced by the fact that I’ve met Chloë).

And please, no arguing.

Topic

[Flap Jack]

Me in theory: All opinions on Red Dwarf are valid even if I disagree with them. They at least can provoke interesting discussion.

Me in practice: Is it possible to get Frank Smeghammer banned from the site?

[sleepey]

I stand with Frank

[Dave]

Mr Rat is especially unfunny.

[Unrumble]

[clem]

Also, The Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase is a great episode, especially the segment with Grampa’s ghost haunting the love meter.  

[International Debris]

When you start to think about it, it gets worse.
Implies things like Archie is funnier than Mr Rat

Mr Rat is especially unfunny. Sorry but that’s just how it is. Skipper as an episode is pretty dire. It’s like one of those filler Simpsons episodes where it’s just a clip show or the “Simpsons Spin-Off” thing.

April Fools aren’t allowed to carry on to the 2nd.

[Asclepius]

After the 2nd or 3rd time why did you think the next viewing would be any better. Let alone 3 more!

Only completionism. I do a watch through of all Red Dwarf episodes now and again and Timewave was a Red Dwarf episode. So I’d just omit to skip it and just sit through it. After a few times, enough was enough.
There are no bad Red Dwarf episodes, all are on a scale somewhere between passable and outstanding
…except Timewave, which doesn’t count

I mean, Series 12 isn’t strong. Of the twelve episodes of Series 11/12, most of the stinkers do fall into Series 12. Cured, as you say, is brilliant fun. Skipper is also fun, is entirely daft and entirely dependent on fan service. M-Corp is reasonable. Mechocracy isn’t strong (and is a little problematic), Siliconia is boring as fuck, and Timewave is about as bad as the show got.

But Series 8 has only Cassandra, I think, to recommend it. Krytie TV might have more plot than, say, Skipper or Mechocracy, but that’s not necessarily a positive. I do like ‘Only the Good’, but all three parts of ‘Back in the Red’ and both parts of ‘Pete’ induce cringe. I think each of those five are as bad as Timewave. Siliconia might be boring, but it’s more watchable than those five.

To summarise: Series 12 – One episode great, one good, two reasonable, one weak, one awful.

Series 8 – Two episodes good, one weak, and five awful.

Series 12 has it.

[Dave]

Skipper is also fun, is entirely daft and entirely dependent on fan service.

Just to stand up for Skipper – this is also how I remembered it, but the last time I rewatched it, I was pleasantly surprised by how original the first half of the episode was (with all the reversal stuff). The fan-service overload only really starts once Rimmer begins dimension-skipping at the halfway point.

[Rushy]

I honestly think it’s hard to pick one.

Series 12 is trying to be traditional Red Dwarf, and that gives it a legitimacy and comforting familiarity. But aside from Cured, all the episodes feel incomplete on a scripting and production level. It’s like watching the dailies of the first draft. 

Series 8 is trashy and mad, but it’s also confidently made, better directed and totally shameless. 

Chris Barrie’s performance is maybe the best barometer for this. In Series 8, he’s nothing like Rimmer, but still at the height of his powers. In Series 12, the vitality and comic timing is off. But he’s much more Rimmery, so you inherently want to give him a pass. 

[Unrumble]

[Nick R]

Also, The Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase is a great episode, especially the segment with Grampa’s ghost haunting the love meter.  

While thinking of some soup
Rimmer passed away
He floated ‘cross the multiverse
But got lost along the way

Now he’s the Love Rat-ic Rimmer
He isn’t called Yul Brynner
He’ll fill our hearts with… smeg

[sleepey]

They both have about 3 good episodes’ worth of material, so basically do you prefer 6 half-good episodes that let you down at the end or 8 mostly-bad episodes with the occasional spark of life

[Moonlight]

Cassandra is the only VIII episode I could ever see myself casually throwing on but Timewave is the only XII episode I couldn’t.

That said, I generally prefer XI. I’ve been having a hot, steamy love affair with Officer Rimmer since it aired regardless of how it kinda falls apart in the last couple minutes. There’s no other episode post-VI that I like as much as it.

[Dave]

Give & Take is still my peak Dave-era Dwarf I think. But I agree that XI is on balance stronger than XII.

[International Debris]

The first half of Skipper is my favourite stuff from the Dave era. The opposite decision stuff is fucking brilliant, superbly timed and edited, feels like a classic Dwarf scenario without being remotely like something the show had previously done. How anyone could think it’s fanservice is beyond me.

The first alternate reality definitely is fanservice, and it’s easily my least favourite part of the episode. Arguably the last reality is a little, too, with the original bunkroom and model shot, but in between that you’ve got Mr Rat and the sacrifice and Rimmer as Holly and multiple Listers and other good stuff, none of which I’d describe as fanservice either. 

It’s my favourite post-Rob episode.

M-Corp is mostly strong too, although I do get the reservations about the resolution and it really doesn’t need the The End callback. I like Mechocracy as a III/IV-style onboard ship episode, although again, Talkie is an unnecessary callback. 

I don’t get the love for Cured, I think the plot is messy and nonsensical, and frankly I’m sick of villains pretending to be wheelchair bound. Siliconia has some good stuff and a lot of awful stuff. Timewave is… Timewave.

VIII… I mean, there’s… Cassandra feels like a Red Dwarf episode I suppose? There are some good jokes, especially when they’re not being overexplained. But the worst stuff – and there’s a lot of it – is Timewave level, and even Cassandra is only really Siliconia level. There’s not a concept as interesting or original as M-Corp or the first half of Skipper, there’s no satire, everybody’s hamming it up rather than just Chris, it looks ugly, the incidental music is terrible, there are no episodes with coherent plots, and it barely gets through 15 minutes without throwing in something painfully misogynistic. 

[Podey]

12 definitely urinates on 8 from a great height (otherwise known as D-deck) in terms of set design and lighting. 11/12 have distinct visual identities and look very stylish IMHO, 8 just looks garish.

[Warbodog]

I don’t find there’s enough difference in quality to single out any of the Dave series as notably better or worse (not counting BTE). All have a mix of good and bad episodes, X is evidently quite a mess but also has ramshackle charm while XI & XII are a bit too budget-sleek (and blue).

Spinning the Dave roulette wheel, there’s a good chance I’d be happy to watch a random episode from those 18, whereas VII & VIII only have one episode each of 16 total that I actually like.

A random number generator gave me 7 – Twentica. Fine.

[Dax101]

I think Skipper is probably the stand out and its because it lacks a fair amout of the Dave eras issues. Not fully, but more than the others.
Give & Take might be up higher for me if the Cat didn’t annoy me in that episode with that stupid nothing plot point where The Cat inherits Series 7 Kryten’s role as insecure whiner.

[Rushy]

I want to like Skipper, but the opposites routine wears thin pretty quickly, I feel Norman’s cameo was terribly handled and most of the other realities just aren’t as interesting as they could have been, even for quick little one-offs. 

The only one that truly shined was the Mr Rat world. Both he and Posh Lister are an absolute hoot. That’s the standout sequence. Everything else is just kind of mediocre. Even the ending with Rimmer just lacks a certain something, some kind of moment of pathos and contemplation that I feel the old series would’ve had here. 

My biggest Dave era highlights are Fathers & Suns, Krysis and Cured. Those I would believe came from the bubble. 

EDIT: I also love Officer Rimmer, but I acknowledge its shortcomings. It’s just the most Rimmery episode there is, and there’s a special joy in that. 

[International Debris]

Yeah, Skipper’s lack of pathos is what stops it being a classic for me. From the set reports I expected something quite nostalgic in a powerful way rather than a fanservicey one. Combined with the name Star Knot, I was hoping for a huge epic.

[Technopeasant]

 the incidental music is terrible

The obvious rejoinder is that it at least HAS incidental music.

Wait, why am I defending VIII again?

I could be convinced VII is better than XII on a good day though.

[International Debris]

I’d take ghastly silence over the potato virus music.

[Moonlight]

I don’t find there’s enough difference in quality to single out any of the Dave series as notably better or worse (not counting BTE).

I will go to bat for X but I do think it feels noticeably lesser than XI and XII on average.

[Dax101]

I like the idea that Rimmer could have had everything he wanted along as he accepted Lister was more successful than him, but his character flaw is that he just can’t accept that and gives it up. 
I also like the idea of exploring different universes that may be a little weird and the fun that could be had from that concept. Which admittedly it doesn’t quite match with the logic Doug set up early in the episode with how the skipper device worked. but then some of the universes Rimmer went too didn’t work with that anyway

[Frank Smeghammer]

I’d take ghastly silence over the potato virus music.

Even as a Series VIII defender, fuck me that music is shit

[Dave]

I remember feeling genuinely horrified in a “what is this shit” kind of way when I first saw the potato bit and that music kicked in.

In retrospect I think VIII was so bad that it actively killed my interest in Red Dwarf for many years.

In that post-VIII period, the DVD releases really were a hugely important part of keeping the show alive (and reminding people how good it was).

[Warbodog]

The 2D potato pile is so unconvincing that I remember trying to interpret/justify it as some kind of cross-sectional plane where it met the camera. I didn’t convince myself.

[Podey]

I’ve always wondered why that pile of potatoes never looked remotely like a “pile”, now I’ve seen that screen grab I think they just laid them flat on a green screen in the vague shape of a pile and then super-imposed it. Rubbish.

Question: is Skipper’s “posh Lister” funnier if you know Craig’s “luvvie” impression from the commentaries etc? I feel like half of my laugh was one of recognition.

[Ben Saunders]

it doesn’t quite match with the logic Doug set up early in the episode with how the skipper device worked

Easy, Rimmer skips into a universe where the Skipper works differently

[Rushy]

Question: is Skipper’s “posh Lister” funnier if you know Craig’s “luvvie” impression from the commentaries etc? I feel like half of my laugh was one of recognition.

It is a bit, but I loved it long before that for Craig’s charisma alone. Knowing he adores doing that voice (I got a bit of confirmation from Danny about that) makes it more endearing. 

[Warbodog]

To derail the topic back onto the well-worn track, Pete Part 2 also sees Birdman resurrected by the Time Wand a few episodes after he was resurrected by the Nanobots. Holograms are too existential and thought-provoking for Series VIII, where life has all the stakes of a video game.

[Technopeasant]

I don’t think the odds of Birdman getting the hologram slot were very high. Did the nanos ressurect George McIntyre?

[Flap Jack]

I don’t think Warbo’s suggesting that Birdman would have been a candidate for being hologram-ized.

[Rushy]

I wonder why Birdman was in the Hole. What great crimes did he commit to warrant this treatment?

[Warbodog]

I wonder why Birdman was in the Hole. What great crimes did he commit to warrant this treatment?

It seems to be where Hollister exiles people who annoy him, or exiles himself when admitting defeat.

It’s also kind of weird how VIII has the extended metaphor of the Canaries, then introduces a prisoner unrelatedly called “Birdman” and a literal caged bird that’s just a sparrow. It’s like… just random stuff.

[Podey]

I know it’s a parody, but where are we supposed to think birdman got a pet bird from in space? Is he another smuggled animal like Frankenstein? Are there non-smuggled animals on board Red Dwarf that are OK for people to have as pets? Much as there’s a whole prison deck we’d never heard of, is there a “nature” or zoo level?

I would have suggested Pete being a robot bird would be the most consistent answer alongside Lennon and McCartney, but then the time wand would have regressed him into a calculator or something. 

[Dave]

I know it’s a parody, but where are we supposed to think birdman got a pet bird from in space? Is he another smuggled animal like Frankenstein? Are there non-smuggled animals on board Red Dwarf that are OK for people to have as pets? 

We know the botanical gardens has squirrels in it, so maybe they also have birds.

[Flap Jack]

We also know they had equipment for inseminating cows on board.

[Dax101]

Thats all well and good but why was Lister not allowed a Cat if there were animals onboard that could actually get into places they shouldn’t.
The answer is, what else could we going to turn into a dinosaur using a device that plays with time? 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Thats all well and good but why was Lister not allowed a Cat if there were animals onboard that could actually get into places they shouldn’t.
The answer is, what else could we going to turn into a dinosaur using a device that plays with time? 

The other question is, why is stasis the punishment for not giving up Frankenstein, whilst prison and or the hole are punishments for other crimes?

[Dave]

Thats all well and good but why was Lister not allowed a Cat if there were animals onboard that could actually get into places they shouldn’t.

I think “unquarantined” is the important bit. Presumably the squirrels, birds and inseminated cows have all been screened for disease.

[Dax101]

But wasn’t the issue less about the disease and more that it could get into the air ducts or Holly? A little nibble here and a little nibble there and before they know it they are flying backwards.

Its not like the captain asked Lister if the Cat had its shots for disease.

I always assumed the botanical gardens wasn’t actually on Red Dwarf and was on a stop off. 

[Dave]

But wasn’t the issue less about the disease and more that it could get into the air ducts or Holly? A little nibble here and a little nibble there and before they know it they are flying backwards.

A bit of both I think. But several times throughout the series they specifically talk about Lister being put into stasis for smuggling an unquarantined cat on board, so I think that’s an important aspect.

[Dave]

I always assumed the botanical gardens wasn’t actually on Red Dwarf and was on a stop off. 

In the early scenes of The End, it’s where Lister and Rimmer are heading for their next job.

[Warbodog]

In the early scenes of The End, it’s where Lister and Rimmer are heading for their next job.

Definite Silent Running influence, though feels a bit extravagant for the world of Series 1 Red Dwarf and its minimal crew (with presumably at least one gardener… Birdman?)

[Frank Smeghammer]

I wonder why Birdman was in the Hole. What great crimes did he commit to warrant this treatment?

I always figured it was repeatedly refusing to give up the bird, same as Lister. Due to age and/or deteriorating mental stability he was deemed unfit for stasis so all that was left to be done was to throw him in the tank. They still couldn’t locate the tiny bird, who found his way back to Birdman in prison. When they told him again to give Pete up, he continued to refuse and was thrown in the Hole.

Once again, Pete, his best friend, found his way into the Hole to be reconciled with Birdman. Quite a sweet story with only 2 drawbacks

1. I made it up as headcanon

2. The rest of the fucking episode(s)

[Technopeasant]

I always assumed the botanical gardens wasn’t actually on Red Dwarf and was on a stop off. 
In the early scenes of The End, it’s where Lister and Rimmer are heading for their next job.

Also mentioned in The Beginning.

Oddly, the Holoship also has a presumably simulated one.

[Warbodog]

Here’s a shocker for the ages: Rimmer probably isn’t my favourite character. It’s probably Lister.

Though I relate to less desirable traits of both, growing up immersed in the books swings it and helped to sell the claim that he’s the main character more than watching some eras of the show might do. I care about him, while Rimmer makes it harder to do the same and is more there to laugh at.

Can anyone go more extreme than that, now that Holly fan Terry Pratchett is no longer with us?

[clem]

I know it’s a parody, but where are we supposed to think birdman got a pet bird from in space? Is he another smuggled animal like Frankenstein?

According to Birdman’s Talkie Toaster interview he found Pete on a Canary mission on a forest moon, on the sole of Kill Crazy’s boot. And named him after Peter Beardsley. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Here’s a shocker for the ages: Rimmer probably isn’t my favourite character. It’s probably Lister. 

Lister is 100% my favourite character. He is far more relatable and far more on my level than Rimmer is.

He’s working class, he loves his music, he has little respect for the likes of Rimmer, he doesn’t take ant smeg, he loves a curry, I’d arguably prefer bitter over lager but that’s really semantics at that point, and he essentially wants a quiet peaceful life.

Only difference between us really is that I do apply myself where Lister doesn’t, and am therefore arguably more successful than Rimmer. But Lister is capable.

Oh and I’m not arty so I haven’t customised my leather jacket.

Rimmer is definitely the more interesting to watch at times, give that he is given more interesting story lines from time to time. But I watch the show for Lister.

[Author]

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