Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions

[Piplup2003]

The title says it all. What opinions do you have about Red Dwarf that no-one else seems to agree on?

For me, it’s that VIII is my second favourite series (behind V) and that I prefer Chloë over Claire as Kochanski (this may be partially influenced by the fact that I’ve met Chloë).

And please, no arguing.

Topic

[Podey]

I know it’s a parody, but where are we supposed to think birdman got a pet bird from in space? Is he another smuggled animal like Frankenstein?

According to Birdman’s Talkie Toaster interview he found Pete on a Canary mission on a forest moon, on the sole of Kill Crazy’s boot. And named him after Peter Beardsley. 

Now you mention it, I remember reading that when G&T did the feature on those articles.

Pete being discovered on an unexplored forest moon does present us with a problem in a universe that’s meant to be devoid of alien life, though…. convergent evolution?

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I know it’s a parody, but where are we supposed to think birdman got a pet bird from in space? Is he another smuggled animal like Frankenstein?
According to Birdman’s Talkie Toaster interview he found Pete on a Canary mission on a forest moon, on the sole of Kill Crazy’s boot. And named him after Peter Beardsley.

 

Now you mention it, I remember reading that when G&T did the feature on those articles.
Pete being discovered on an unexplored forest moon does present us with a problem in a universe that’s meant to be devoid of alien life, though…. convergent evolution?

Humanity has spread across the universe and we’re seeing the final signs of it as the crew head in the direction of earth.  Humanity will have seeded planets and moons. Waxworld would have had animal life on it no doubt and they were out there terraforming.

So the answer is, they brought it from home.

[Podey]

Yeah that makes sense – I was thinking that the pre-accident crew would be aware of planets and moons that have been terraformed by humanity and that those wouldn’t qualify as “unknown territory” but I guess the the Canaries would be used to monitor them.

Obviously it’s different when our post-accident crew encounter stuff like Waxworld because they’ve been out of the loop for 3 million years, so they are more likely to find signs of humanity in unexpected places.

[Dave]

The nanobots created Pete for a laugh.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

That’s an assumption that Birdman was in the hole pre-accident. Who is to say Birdman didn’t find Pete in a canary mission post resurrection and thrown in the hole after.

[Warbodog]

I hazily remembered Birdman being a specific reference to something, it’ll be The Birdman of Alcatraz (1962):

It is a largely fictionalized version of the life of Robert Stroud, who was sentenced to solitary confinement after having killed a prison guard. A federal prison inmate, he became known as the “Birdman of Alcatraz” because of his studies of birds, which had taken place when he was incarcerated at Leavenworth Prison where he was allowed to keep birds in jail.

[Dave]

[Rushy]

Can anyone go more extreme than that, now that Holly fan Terry Pratchett is no longer with us?

Holly is my favourite as well, but only in series 1-2. He is the funniest, and comes across as the crew’s dad. They tease and mock him while clearly relying on him massively. And not just to control the ship. 

[Dave]

comes across as the crew’s dad.

I’d never really thought about Holly in these terms but it fits well.

[Nick R]

I wonder why Birdman was in the Hole. What great crimes did he commit to warrant this treatment?

It seems to be where Hollister exiles people who annoy him, or exiles himself when admitting defeat.
It’s also kind of weird how VIII has the extended metaphor of the Canaries, then introduces a prisoner unrelatedly called “Birdman” and a literal caged bird that’s just a sparrow. It’s like… just random stuff.

Now I Know Why the Caged Birdman Sings

[International Debris]

The 2D potato pile is so unconvincing that I remember trying to interpret/justify it as some kind of cross-sectional plane where it met the camera. I didn’t convince myself.

What about the bit where someone is very obviously passing Chris potatoes?

[Podey]

That’s an assumption that Birdman was in the hole pre-accident. Who is to say Birdman didn’t find Pete in a canary mission post resurrection and thrown in the hole after.

Birdman says he was in the Canaries “in his younger days” and would go out on missions “like the young lads do today”.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Birdman says he was in the Canaries “in his younger days” and would go out on missions “like the young lads do today”.

Ok then. The canaries were used to actually go explore mines to ensure they’re safe before sending actual miners. Rimmer’s explanation as to who they are is literal and not figurative.

[Rushy]

I’d never really thought about Holly in these terms but it fits well.

In series 2 in particular, they all feel like a family. Lister and Rimmer are the two older brothers, Cat’s the annoying toddler and Holly is the divorced single dad. 

[Podey]

Ah, I was also trying to find where I had read that his time in the hole had “sent him a little doo-lally” which is in the Captain’s Notes, though in the heightened reality of series 8 I suppose that could easily be a week.

[International Debris]

Why don’t I remember any of this Birdman backstory? Is there some kind of expanded universe lore I’ve missed here?

[Flap Jack]

Why don’t I remember any of this Birdman backstory? Is there some kind of expanded universe lore I’ve missed here?

https://www.ganymede.tv/forums/topic/your-unpopular-red-dwarf-opinions/page/24/#post-318211

[tombow]

Is that not from his Official Site bio?

[Podey]

Why don’t I remember any of this Birdman backstory? Is there some kind of expanded universe lore I’ve missed here?

https://reddwarf.co.uk/features/fiction/birdman/

[Moonlight]

Back to Earth is about to be 17 years old. This is not an opinion but as a statement I feel it will prove unpopular.

Remember Headfuck Monday? I sure do.

[Frank Smeghammer]

comes across as the crew’s dad.
I’d never really thought about Holly in these terms but it fits well.

Holly spends much of the first couple of seasons undermining Rimmer and trying to groom Lister to be the captain. Lister has bravery and pluck, even if he didn’t have the right pips and exams. He had 3 million years to think about what would happen when he unfroze Lister, I believe he surmised Lister would need to lead the ship long term, but he would have Rimmer to contend with.

Eventually, Lister does become the guy calling the shots, but it takes 5 or 6 seasons

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Holly spends much of the first couple of seasons undermining Rimmer and trying to groom Lister to be the captain. Lister has bravery and pluck, even if he didn’t have the right pips and exams. He had 3 million years to think about what would happen when he unfroze Lister, I believe he surmised Lister would need to lead the ship long term, but he would have Rimmer to contend with. 

Citation needed. 

[Rushy]

The only initiative Holly takes with the crew’s lives is doing whatever he thinks is necessary to keep Lister’s mental health in (relatively) working order. 

I don’t think Holly has the authority or inclination to groom anyone to do anything unless they explicitly ask him to. In fact, I think it’s mentioned in the first book that Lister studied mining procedures with him. That’s not something Holly pushed on him, it’s just what Lister wanted to do as the commander of the ship. 

[Warbodog]

Remember Headfuck Monday? I sure do.

Was that the Coronation Street photos or something else? I blogged about that at the time, which tempered my earlier cautious enthusiasm about the revival with concern. Not sure why it would be of interest, but anyway:

This exciting new photo, fresh from location filming, threatens to turn my optimism on its head. It shows the Red Dwarf crew loitering on an outdoor set at Manchester’s Granada Studios, but not just any set. It’s the set of the popular soap Coronation Street, one I visited a couple of times as a child. When I first saw this photo, I assumed it was some sort of high-spirits jape, as the lads took a break from shooting at a nearby studio to accompany Craig Charles to the Street and try to terrify fans. But, no. It’s genuine. This will be in the episode.

The characters from Red Dwarf will visit Coronation Street and nobody seems to be stopping this from happening.

I’m clearly overreacting. No details of the plot have leaked out, and if the show is truly harking back to its golden years, there’s sure to be some damn fine justification for this madness. There had better be. At the very least, it makes the title ‘Red Dwarf: Back to Earth’ less anticlimactic and more intriguing, as this wouldn’t be the first time the crew has arrived on a version of Earth that wasn’t quite right.

But there’s reason behind my paranoia, that reason being the traumatic memory of the BBC’s 1993 Children in Need special ‘Dimensions in Time,’ a truly dire piece of television that combined the irreconcilable worlds of Doctor Who and Eastenders, resulting in one of the worst things I’ve ever seen on television. It didn’t even manage to be so bad it’s good. It’s so bad, it’s complete shit. I hoped it had been lost forever, but some goit’s put it up on YouTube.

I’m excited about new Red Dwarf. Not as excited as twelve-year-old Dave would have been, but excited all the same. Red Dwarf deserves a better ending than Chris Barrie kneeing the Grim Reaper in the balls, and if nothing else, it can’t get any worse than series eight. There’s optimism for you!

Wow, I wrote about Red Dwarf and didn’t even use the word smeg!

[Dave]

Back to Earth is about to be 17 years old

You mean 7 years I think. That feels about right.

[Dave]

 I blogged about that at the time, which tempered my earlier cautious enthusiasm about the revival with concern.

Proof that even back then, everything ultimately turned into a discussion of why VIII is shit.

[Podey]

God how did they get so bad at making Kryten’s mask between Back to Earth and Series X? 

X is passable, to be fair, but BtE is the last time Kryten looked like Kryten, for me. Ironically he does start to resemble a giant half-chewed rubber-tipped pencil after that.

[Frank Smeghammer]

Citation needed. 

Citation is I made it up, of course.

But Holly’s undermining of Rimmer is numerous, the Helen Shapiro haircut, Petersen’s arm, the 5 mile run as Queeg. In fact, the whole episode of Queeg could be seen as a pointless bit of fun, or you could choose to see it as the moment where he not only asserts his dominance over the crew as Queeg but also inspires rebellion in Lister

[Flap Jack]

My theory about Holly undermining Rimmer is that Rimmer is a prick and undermining him is funny.

[Dave]

[Rushy]

my unpopular opinion of today is that Rimmer’s wig in Back to Reality is funnier than the entire Duane Dibley thing

[Unrumble]

God how did they get so bad at making Kryten’s mask between Back to Earth and Series X? 

X is passable, to be fair, but BtE is the last time Kryten looked like Kryten, for me. Ironically he does start to resemble a giant half-chewed rubber-tipped pencil after that.

[Ben Saunders]

X is the only mask where I think fucking hell, that’s shit. Series 2 was their first ever attempt so you can excuse it, and it looks good in III despite how soaking wet it is at all times. I like VII, VIII is a step down but X is just utterly horrendous. After that I think it’s good.

[Dave]

Yeah, I agree that X is the nadir. A lot of it is that awful nose.

[Moonlight]

And of course, it’s against UK law to write an article about Red Dwarf without using X era promo photos with the eye bag mask.

[Jonathan Capps]

I have a theory that the X mask gets much better after Lemons (post-Christmas filming break) but I can’t be bothered to check this.

[Podey]

I don’t mind the X mask as much because it manages to retain the flat surfaces and sharp edges but the more recent efforts are comparatively amorphous. 

So lumpy! I think it’s also the fact that they lowered his “cheek bones” by 3/4 of an inch which makes his head look rounder.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

XI, XII and TPL mask is basically just a balaclava isn’t it?

[Technopeasant]

Hitler peaked in Series IV IMO. Since then he’s never quite looked like Hitler.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Hitler peaked in Series IV IMO. Since then he’s never quite looked like Hitler.

That’s like Charlie Chaplin not winning the Charlie Chaplin lookalike completion 

[Nick R]

Hitler peaked in Series IV IMO. Since then he’s never quite looked like Hitler.

Hitlers don’t look like Hitlers on film. You gotta use Mussolinis.

[Dave]

Hitlers don’t look like Hitlers on film. You gotta use Mussolinis.

What do you do if you want something that looks like a Mussolini? Tape a bunch of Stalins together?

[Asclepius]

Cassandra is the only VIII episode I could ever see myself casually throwing on but Timewave is the only XII episode I couldn’t.

That said, I generally prefer XI. I’ve been having a hot, steamy love affair with Officer Rimmer since it aired regardless of how it kinda falls apart in the last couple minutes. There’s no other episode post-VI that I like as much as it.

Love Officer Rimmer. The starting point with the printed Captain with the deformed face is perfect early-Dwarf. Absolutely hilarious, yet dripping with pathos and a weird sort of dignity. Amazing.

[Dax101]

I wish Officer Rimmer had focused on the Multiple Rimmers aspect. I know the show has done the multiple Rimmers thing at least twice already but it’s such a fun concept. And the concept was about 2 minutes in the episode. I feel like more fun could have been had with that. Rather than just an episode of mostly Rimmer gloating which is basically what it is.

I find the way he was promoted and resigne to be annoying. It’s that quick and easy dumbness that the Dave era liked to do. Yes it’s a comedy but come on, do better.

[Rushy]

I wish Officer Rimmer had focused on the Multiple Rimmers aspect.

I think the focus of the episode was deliberately 100% on the comedy surrounding Rimmer’s extreme egomania, but it is a pity that Rimmer dominating his clones by rank is never really touched on. 

If this was the bubble era, Prime Rimmer would absolutely make their life a living hell and become an imitation of his father. And the other Rimmers would most likely have an intervention to point this out (think the Sopranos intervention, but even funnier), sending Prime Rimmer into a personal crisis. 

You could even tie it into The Beginning with Prime Rimmer realising that he hasn’t fully escaped his father’s ghost. 

Then maybe the other Rimmers deliberately create the Rimmer Monster as a ploy to usurp Prime Rimmer, and the Monster becomes a symbol of Rimmer’s dad/Prime Rimmer’s mental issues/whatever. In the end, Prime Rimmer voluntarily gives up his power and that destroys the Monster. 

Lister still has to do what he says though. He doesn’t count. Snooty facial expression. Cue credits. 

[Dax101]

I feel like what Officer Rimmer should have been is that they save the captain, they then don’t go back to Red Dwarf before they picked him up, because it means he gloats about it, and then they save the captain, and then he gloats more after. It’s 2 sections of just gloating. I’d just have them save the printed captain, Rimmer gets promoted, he gloats, he realises he ain’t really getting anything out of his promotion without a crew that respects him. He then prints loads of Rimmers to take up that part of the crew. I think loads of Rimmers on Red Dwarf could never not be funny. And then the Rimmer monster resolves that story. Rather than coming together for last 2 minutes.

Thats just how i see it. 

[Rushy]

But Rimmer’s officers’ club!

[Moonlight]

I see the Rimmer monster (I tried to coin Rimmonster at the time but nobody bit) as a fun violent swerve for the episode. Instead of the Rimmers devolving into infighting like you might expect, they get eaten by a fucked up monster Rimmer accidentally creates by being too impatient to wait two minutes.

I do remember when I first watched the episode and they asked the monster to make a list I thought it was going to be a Chekhov’s gun from Herring turning to paper earlier where they trick the monster into “completing” its task and cause it to turn back to paper. Instead they just shoot it in the face(s).

[Rushy]

The books may have fleshed out Lister and Rimmer, but they did the Cat and Kryten dirty. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

> but they did the Cat and Kryten dirty. 

I’m not sure that’s true.

The evolution of the Cat people is described in more detail than in the TV show.  Cat is then depicted much more like a cat for the duration of at least book one.  He continues to be lazy (extremely) though is show to be an innately talented driver. His personality is then explored in greater depth in the BTL game, more so than the show which lazily shows him eating fish and him announcing he has an (extremely) large wardrobe.

Kryten is already pretty fleshed out in the TV show but in the books his original Nova 5 self is given room to breath quite a bit more which is interesting.  How the ship crashed and how the crew died being tied into this somewhat useless cleaning robot is a fun addition that makes its way into the show (the fact it’s his fault anyway).  He too is later shown to have wants and desires by the game.

By the time of Last Human Doug is arguably writing the Robert version of Kryten, and he is shown to deliberately put people at risk by using the DNA machine to turn himself human.  Something I don’t think TV show Kryten would do but by this point in the book series this Kryten seems to be comfortable with but certain broaden the character more than being “the science one”.

Throughout all the books, all the characters (except maybe Kochanski) are explore more, given more depth, more back story, more interesting story lines than they all get in the show.  Even Lister’s history, his goals, his ambitions and the decisions he makes that lead him onto Red Dwarf is explored further.

[Author]

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