Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions

[Piplup2003]

The title says it all. What opinions do you have about Red Dwarf that no-one else seems to agree on?

For me, it’s that VIII is my second favourite series (behind V) and that I prefer Chloë over Claire as Kochanski (this may be partially influenced by the fact that I’ve met Chloë).

And please, no arguing.

Topic

[Warbodog]

I like Lemons, don’t like Krysis.

I thought It’s Always Sunny was great for a few seasons, when I was like 25, but I eventually dropped it like everything when rot sent in, so I don’t know how it’s perceived generally.

[gerrydelasel]

[Dax101]

I think Lemons is the better episode of Series 10 and that’s because it doesn’t have too much going on so the story and jokes feels like it’s playing out more organically.

With Cured. Outside of the villains plan making no sense and seeming ultimately pointless. The Cat and his kiddy jumping back and forth because from either helping the villain or the dwarfers because they have a surprise for him bugged the hell out of me.

[Ben Saunders]

I was joking that Always Sunny is “notoriously” crap. I hate it, but everybody I know loves it for some reason. It’s too loud for me.

[Dax101]

I like Krysis up untill they meet universe. Which they then do a Morgan Freeman impression because they are winking to him having played god previously, while also trying to avoid suggesting the universe is infact god. Its a big concept that i imagine was the reason why Doug did it. Big concept = cool!. But i can feel the weight of Don’t think about it too hard otherwise, there will be a lot of questions.

As for Chris Barries acting… it depends, when Chris pulls back on his performance, he does a pretty good job, but when he gets a scene thats focused on him playing up to the audience, he gets a little exaggerated. Same with Danny tbh

[Nick R]

Lemons has all the silliness of a series VIII episode. Like the travelling to India joke, which you could contrast with the trips to Earth in Backwards and Back to Earth: both of those made jokes about the crew’s method of travel, but neither of them got quite as ridiculous as a time skip that glosses over walking thousands of miles.

The difference is that Lemons is like a series VIII episode done well. It has a similar kind of silliness, but IMO it’s funny enough to get away with it.

And even if it’s not necessarily much better than the average series VIII episode, it gets extra goodwill because it comes in a series that has the whole premise of going back to basics of “traditional” Red Dwarf, instead of one that made radical changes to the cast and setting like VIII did. So I give Lemons some benefit of the doubt that I don’t give to, say, Only the Good.

[Podey]

I think X is my least favourite of the Dave era, overall, but Lemons is a good ep.

[Jenuall]

X was special and so always holds a little big of extra grace in my ratings because it was the first real return of “the show” post VIII. BtE was such a different thing that it didn’t really count, and whilst I’ve come to appreciate aspects of it more over time it was such a big disappointment at the time that I was just overwhelmingly pleased to have something back that wasn’t utter shite. 

It wasn’t a “return to form” in the sense that it was as good as the bubble, far from it, but it was definitely a return to a familiar and comforting format for the first time in a long while. Is being familiar the highest ambition that Doug could have aimed for? Probably not, but I think it was the right call. I think I’ve got more time for something doing a good job of aping a reliable format, than something doing a poor attempt at a new one – especially when you consider that everyone involved, even at the point of when series X was made, was getting on a bit and not necessarily in the position to strike out into something bold and innovative!

I’ve generally always held the viewpoint that the Dave era (X-TPL) is a step back up after the VII-VIII period and all of its problems, but it still rarely gets near bubble territory – both in terms of overall quality of material or performances. But in some Bodysnatcher style world where we could Frankenstein together a series from the best bits of what Doug gave us on Dave I think you could create six episodes that rivals I-VI and that’s not a bad return really when you consider that for all intents and purposes the show was as good as dead and buried and the last thing we thought we were ever going to be left with was Only the Good…

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I see increasing popularity of Cured over the years and feel it’s my duty to stop it. 

I am not joking when I say it is my favourite episode of Red Dwarf. 

[Dave]

I am not joking when I say it is my favourite episode of Red Dwarf. 

[Rushy]

Cured is absolutely bubble worthy. It even gave me Quarantine vibes at times. I absolutely loved it. Especially Rimmer’s cruelly un-PC line about ramps. 

[Warbodog]

If the JMC Onboard Computer (JMCOC) era is technically from BTE to the start of TPL (or even from X to TPL), that’s longer than the Hattie Holly era.

[Podey]

X was special and so always holds a little big of extra grace in my ratings because it was the first real return of “the show” post VIII. BtE was such a different thing that it didn’t really count, and whilst I’ve come to appreciate aspects of it more over time it was such a big disappointment at the time that I was just overwhelmingly pleased to have something back that wasn’t utter shite. 

It wasn’t a “return to form” in the sense that it was as good as the bubble, far from it, but it was definitely a return to a familiar and comforting format for the first time in a long while. Is being familiar the highest ambition that Doug could have aimed for? Probably not, but I think it was the right call. I think I’ve got more time for something doing a good job of aping a reliable format, than something doing a poor attempt at a new one – especially when you consider that everyone involved, even at the point of when series X was made, was getting on a bit and not necessarily in the position to strike out into something bold and innovative!

I’ve generally always held the viewpoint that the Dave era (X-TPL) is a step back up after the VII-VIII period and all of its problems, but it still rarely gets near bubble territory – both in terms of overall quality of material or performances. But in some Bodysnatcher style world where we could Frankenstein together a series from the best bits of what Doug gave us on Dave I think you could create six episodes that rivals I-VI and that’s not a bad return really when you consider that for all intents and purposes the show was as good as dead and buried and the last thing we thought we were ever going to be left with was Only the Good…

I can appreciate that, but I find I cringe a lot more than the other Dave stuff when watching X, even though I think it has some strong concepts for episodes.

I think X is a reaction to the hate BtE got in the same way that VIII was a reaction to people not loving the drama in VII, then Doug settled into more of a groove.

[Podey]

If the JMC Onboard Computer (JMCOC) era is technically from BTE to the start of TPL (or even from X to TPL), that’s longer than the Hattie Holly era.

RIP “the Dave era”. It’s now the “jimcock” era forevermore.

[Dax101]

I dont feel XI and XII are that different to X. They look better and Doug injected more energy into them. Like he was worried people would get bored if things were not moving, shifting and joking. But outside of that, they are pretty similar.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Cured is absolutely bubble worthy. It even gave me Quarantine vibes at times. I absolutely loved it. Especially Rimmer’s cruelly un-PC line about ramps. 

Oh shit I agree with Rushy!

But on a serious note, it absolutely is bubble worthy. I think it’s a fairly strong idea, executed well, with plenty of laughs, an hilarious guest performance in Hitler, a top tier scene in the due guitar. Lister’s response to “cured” Hitler is brilliant. The opening ties into the end in a way so few episodes in Dave era do. It even has a Cat moment that could almost nearly elevate it to a Cat episode. And well frankly when I sit down and think about what to watch, Cured always comes out really high as I always want to watch it more. Some more than a lot of bubble episodes. 

[Dax101]

Personally, i struggle to see how its bubble worthy. The Cat, again, is really dumb and also has shades of that whininess he had in Can of Worms and Give and Take. And the villain’s plan makes no sense. He creates a scheme to steal Starbug but can’t because of a secret boot-up sequence he doesn’t know. So either to cover his ass or kill the crew… its its a little up in the air, he put them in life-threatening situations in which they probably shouldn’t survive, but just in case, he attempts to frame Hitler and Co for it. As well as faking his own death before ruining it by showing up to reveal he is alive… When you realise the character didn’t need to do any of this to achieve his goal, it makes an episode of Scooby Doo look super clever.

I also think Hitler might be a little to camp for my taste. I have no issue with Camp but it starts to feel played up. Now i like the payoff joke about why he is acting that way at the end: “Did you wonder why he seemed nothing like hitler?” i like that payoff, but I’m not sure the amount of camp was worth getting to that point.

So all that stuff put together. I don’t feel like these elements fit the bubble at all.

[Rushy]

The bit about United America is priceless

[Moonlight]

My biggest issue with Cured is just that the twist ending is extremely convoluted.

[Frank Smeghammer]

I, for one, have had quite enough of Hitler references and cameos in RD. There must be other historical characters Doug can think of.

[Frank Smeghammer]

I really like Lemons and I really like Cured but the common thread they both have is you really have to ignore some major plot faults and nonsensical creative choices.

Basically you have to watch both of them with one eye closed, metaphorically speaking.

I tend to have no problem doing this with both of those episodes so I like them

[International Debris]

Skipper is a good laugh, but those laughs are almost entirely through “Oh, look who this is from the olden days” or “Here’s that joke again”.

Nah, I’ve seen this said before and I disagree entirely. The only part of the episode I don’t like is the first universe Rimmer visits, with the awful nobody’s dead Dave bit and VIII-style Hollister. It was kind of fun on first watch, but it feels laboured on repeat viewings. Other than the bunkroom set in the last universe, none of the rest of it trades on nostalgia or fanservice at all.

What makes Skipper great:

The opposite decisions sequence, which for me is up there with ‘so what is it?’, the bar room tidy and such in terms of all-time classic RD set pieces. It’s such a good concept and performed and edited to perfection.

The Mr. Rat universe. 

The increasingly deranged run of universes Rimmer finds himself in, with the many Listers one, the sacrifice, Rimmer as Holly, Blue Dwarf, the elephant trumpeting, etc.

The word ‘anomaling’. 

It still has flaws which drag it down; if it was all the quality of the above then it would be a top five episode for me. 

As for Cured, for me the guitar scene is down there with the worst the show has ever offered. It’s so obviously, painfully written as a ‘bit’, the self-consciously ‘memorable’ scene where they do a way too fucking long silly thing direct to camera. It’s not the Blue Midget dance, but it’s not far off. I’m also fucking sick of the “disabled person is actually evil and pretending” trope. The dismissing of them as robots feels so lazy and rushed like Doug realised the end of the episode was on its way and he needed to wrap it up in 30 seconds. The plot is so, so saggy and I can never work out why the fuck Telford does just about anything he does. And honestly, I think the idea of a ‘cure for evil’ probably has some mileage in it in terms of a nuanced discussion leading to the concept of evil being dismissed as bollocks, but it’s not remotely covered in the episode and everyone just accepts it all in a really uninteresting way.

I mean, there’s stuff I like – the pairing of “Ainsley Hitler” and “oh, no, it is mine” in the space of a few seconds always has me in uncontrollable laughter – but I do recall my excitement for XII disappearing when I reached the end of the episode and just thought it was a bit crap. It’s so underwhelming and I can’t imagine ever actively wanting to watch it. I think it being one of a run of episodes with lots of guest characters probably didn’t help.

[Ben Saunders]

I think Mr. Rat is the hardest I laughed on broadcast during the entire Dave era. It’s very daft. But just the anticipation of knowing something ridiculous was about to happen and then having that pay off was so good.

[Turk Thrust]

I would be one of those who agrees that Cured is way below bubble standard. And the attempts at satire with references to war, politicians, and Rupert Murdoch are all pretty obvious and lazy targets.

Hitler’s “oh no, it is mine,” is amusing, but it was even more amusing when Barraclough did the same joke in Porridge 50 years ago. :)

I enjoy Rimmer’s comments about putting ramps on board, though. They work well with his character.

[Flap Jack]

I like Cured a lot, but it’s not even in the top half of Series XII for me, so it is a little surprising to see it described as bubble-worthy.

Then again, there are episodes in the actual bubble that I like less than Cured, so technically?

It being anyone’s favourite episode of all time is harder to compute, but as someone who also has an uncommon favourite, I can respect it.

[Unrumble]

Hitler’s “oh no, it is mine,” is amusing, but it was even more amusing when Barraclough did the same joke in Porridge 50 years ago. :)

I’m wary of critiquing jokes on the basis of “it’s been done before” or “you could see it coming a mile off”. 

A lot of comedy/art takes established beats and tropes and runs with them. There are plenty of other examples of ‘obvious setup with punchline’, what’s important is if it’s funny (which you did acknowledge you found it).

Unexpected and original are also great if done right, but sometimes you just want a gag executed well.

[Turk Thrust]

Hitler’s “oh no, it is mine,” is amusing, but it was even more amusing when Barraclough did the same joke in Porridge 50 years ago. :)
I’m wary of critiquing jokes on the basis of “it’s been done before” or “you could see it coming a mile off”. 
A lot of comedy/art takes established beats and tropes and runs with them. There are plenty of other examples of ‘obvious setup with punchline’, what’s important is if it’s funny (which you did acknowledge you found it).
Unexpected and original are also great if done right, but sometimes you just want a gag executed well.

Sure, and I guess Doug would freely admit that he was borrowing from Clement/Le Frenais there and in a Series VII deleted scene (The “I want you to fill this for me,” bit).

I think it’s more of a problem when Doug is borrowing from himself. For example, in ‘Dear Dave’ where the punchline is “You’ve not listened to a word I’ve said,” which is almost identical to a line in ‘Nanarchy’. When the show is borrowing from Series VII, you know it must be in trouble. :)

[Rushy]

The Dear Dave version of that scene is a clear improvement over the Nanarchy version.

Nothing beats “fingerlicking machine working overdrive”

[Turk Thrust]

The Dear Dave version of that scene is a clear improvement over the Nanarchy version.
Nothing beats “fingerlicking machine working overdrive”

The Dear Dave version of that scene is a clear improvement over the Nanarchy version.
Nothing beats “fingerlicking machine working overdrive”

Nothing in ‘Dear Dave’ is an improvement over anything that had gone before. Just my opinion, of course, and I respect yours.

[Warbodog]

Nothing in ‘Dear Dave’ is an improvement over anything that had gone before.

It rivals the Pete Parts in alliterative titles, but they might win on plosive fun.

[Rushy]

Nothing in ‘Dear Dave’ is an improvement over anything that had gone before. 

Cutest vending machine… 

[International Debris]

Dear Dave is a bit like Duct Soup for me, in that it’s going for character-led but ends up utterly dull. 

That said, it has my favourite joke in X, “it turned into a jacket?” so I can’t hate it like some do.

[Rushy]

Regressive though it may be, the moment where X captured my heart was when Rimmer started talking about his astro-navigation exams. 

I just have such a love for that early version of the character from I-II and the books, where Dwarf really went into detail about his neuroses and pettiness and love for military minutiae. There’s wonderful Rimmer stories in the later seasons (Holoship being my all-time favourite), but it’s never quite the same after II. I never got the sense that he naturally evolved past all that, just that the writers pushed him in a different direction for the sake of comedy. Which is fine.

But Rimmer in the JMC uniform, with his conspiracy theories, insane routines, necrophobics, pointless loyalty to protocol (“4691 irradiated haggis!”) etc is captured in the amber of my memory as the proper Rimmer, and my enjoyment of the character later frequently relies on how well he can live up to that original incarnation. 

[Dave]

It being anyone’s favourite episode of all time is harder to compute, but as someone who also has an uncommon favourite, I can respect it.

Favourites are hard things to objectively justify sometimes, but it doesn’t stop them being favourites.

I think my all-time favourite is The Inquisitor, which is partly to do with it being the first episode I ever saw and partly because it stands out for being quite an atypical episode in some ways. I wouldn’t necessarily argue that it’s The Best episode ever, but it’s my favourite. 

[Warbodog]

I do wonder if Quarantine would still be my favourite if Series V Byte 2 hadn’t been the first new-to-me Red Dwarf I saw after Series VIII. It was quite an event.

[Jenuall]

But Rimmer in the JMC uniform, with his conspiracy theories, insane routines, necrophobics, pointless loyalty to protocol (“4691 irradiated haggis!”) etc 

Just to say it’s necrobics that Rimmer was into rather than necrophobics. I think most people have a fear of the dead, apart from Lister who likes to fuck them 

[Rushy]

I said what I said

[Unrumble]

I think my all-time favourite is The Inquisitor, which is partly to do with it being the first episode I ever saw and partly because it stands out for being quite an atypical episode in some ways. I wouldn’t necessarily argue that it’s The Best episode ever, but it’s my favourite. 

I regularly cite Thanks For The Memory as my favourite, beyond that I don’t have an established ranking (though I’m sure my Coral Canvass choices would help in that regard), but I reckon The Inquisitor would probably be in my top 5. Blends the darker sci-fi plot with comedy perfectly.

[Dave]

I’ve said it before but you could have genuinely made a great standalone sci-fi movie out of the ideas in The Inquisitor. But applying to Red Dwarf is almost even better because it can build on everything we already know about these characters.

People often cite it as being less focused on comedy but I think there are some great comic setpieces in there (like the self-inquisition) as well as lots of fun throwaway gags.

The only thing that could have made it any better would be restoring Kryten’s deleted line about the past impossible nevertense.

[Rushy]

My favourite part about the Inquisitor is Kryten needling him. 

“In a human, this behaviour might be considered stubborn.”

“But I am not human, and neither are you. And it is not in our place to judge them. I wonder why you do?”

We never get a follow-up to that line, but the implications alone are interesting to think about. Plus, Kryten is awesome. 

[Dave]

Definitely. Fantastic moment.

[Rushy]

Occurs to me that with a bit of re-editing, you could turn VI into a fully acceptable finale to Red Dwarf. 

Keep Psirens, Legion and Emohawk as is, in that order. Then tack the opening scene of Out of Time (“we’ve lost all track of Red Dwarf”) onto Gunmen, and make them flying off to the sunset in Starbug the end. 

Sure, you’d lose Rimmerworld and Out of Time, but I could live with that. 

[Ben Saunders]

I like the way he says stub-orn, and his whole delivery in that little speech is so sort of… elevated. Mythic. One of those moments where Red Dwarf really feels like it’s stepping above itself and saying something important, those kinds of moments that are sprinkled throughout Moffat Who.

[Frank Smeghammer]

One of my favourite line deliveries in all of Red Dwarf

[Unrumble]

The only thing that could have made it any better would be restoring Kryten’s deleted line about the past impossible nevertense.

Ah yes, I actually meant to add that the smeg-up is so ingrained in my mind, the quick cut from Lister’s line to the tear gas seems even more hasty and abrupt than it might otherwise, like they roughly chopped it at the last minute.

[Dax101]

 I think it’s more of a problem when Doug is borrowing from himself. For example, in ‘Dear Dave’ where the punchline is “You’ve not listened to a word I’ve said,” which is almost identical to a line in ‘Nanarchy’. When the show is borrowing from Series VII, you know it must be in trouble. :)

Its like Hollister standing behind Rimmer while he rambles about him in Peter: Part 2, which Doug did again in Back to Earth: Part One with Katerina. Not a great joke worth repeating IMO.

[Nick R]

Peter: Part 2

Dear David

Kryten TV

[Author]

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