Did you see Doctor Who? – Spoilers!

[penny]

So much better than the Chrismas ep, which lets face it was cheesy humour with eye candy for guys and girls…the part with the sparks behind Tennant bit was lovely, but I did think the episode had turned in to an aftershave advert when they did that.

Anyway, on to today’s one…So went “What!? What!? What!?” when Rose turned round.
I’m still not totally in to Tate’s character (she’s a bit annoying). I kind of liked her as a one off type character.

The fat tissue baby creatures were cute though…awwwww!

Topic

[Ridley]

Why aren’t They allowed to use United Nations anymore?

[Seb Patrick]

The UN got unhappy about it, I think. Although, funnily enough, there was actually an explicit reference to their getting funding from the UN…

[Seb Patrick]

(incidentally, I think we were probably told all we needed to be about UNIT. Bearing in mind they’ve already appeared twice in the series so far, it’s pretty obvious that they’re a governmental organisation who deal with alien-related stuff – a legitimate version of Torchwood, basically. While it was slightly oblique, meanwhile, enough was conveyed about the Doctor having previously been involved with them somehow. I think anything beyond what we were given would have been there for fan-pleasing, really. Not that it wouldn’t have been nice – would even the briefest of mentions of the words “Lethbridge” and “Stewart” have gone amiss?)

[Jonathan Capps]

From what I’ve heard on another forum form someone who’s seen The Poison Sky, the Brig doesn’t go entirely unmentioned.

[pfm]

Well he IS RTD-universe canon with Sarah Jane saying ‘love to the Brig’. They really should have got him back though. Perhaps in series 2 of SJA?

[Zombie Jim Undead]

> You? really can?t be serious, can you? Better than ?Dalek?? Better than ?The Parting of the Ways?? Better than ?Doomsday??

Most certainly not. Sorry :-p

Dalek was brilliant, but slightly over-egged the “Daleks are invincible” angle…and was just an introductory story.

Parting of the Ways was also very good…

Didn’t like Doomsday much at all.

Evolution of the Daleks felt the most like an old-school Dalek story. Daleks being devious…working on some infernal contraption…the pig slaves were excellent – reminded me of the Orgrons…

30s New York was great…and reflected the Dalek design nicely… was exciting…flying Dalek attack on the Hooverville, Hugh Quarshie…

The hybrid was a bit naff…but still. Yep. My favourite of the new Dalek stories.

[Dave]

>the Brig doesn?t go entirely unmentioned.

“thbridge-Stewart”

[ChrisM]

Great new episode I thought. Mummy saves the grandad with the sledgehammer. Whilst the doctor is getting all techy with his sonic screwdriver under the car. Lovely.

Couple of bits and pieces didn’t make a whole lot of sense (the eco rocket thing flaming the atmosphere to change the gas for example… since much of the gas was at ground level not ‘up there’) but I get that it’s part of the genius kids’ terraforming kit turning alien atmospheres into earth air.

Fair enough no biggie.

Interesting little flash of Rose.. (not that kind of flash you dirty smeggers.)

Lots of action and shooty bits. Even the characteristic surprise plot remedies grabbed apparently out of nowhere actually worked here, since they were established before, i.e Units hover ship thing and even the eco rocket, thingy, . (No doubt nicked from Rimmer’s life-pod. Just kidding.) Ok the eco rocket was sort of pulled out of the Doctor’s bottom when needed, but it made sense considering the preparations of the genius kids with their terraforming equipment. (Beyond earth tech even so but that could be put down to access to alien technology.)

I liked the twist at the end too. Some people don’t like that redemptive storyline thing, but in this case with this character, I really think it worked. Not sure why the kid put on an American accent (listen to him on Confidential) but it makes a change having a villain being an American played by an English person rather than and English villain played by and American which is often the case in US tv.

Great stuff.

Spoiler-
I’ve been very impressed with this new season so far. And interesting little twist glimpsed in next week’s episode too…

[ChrisM]

I’ll put this in a different post cos it concerns an episode of old Who.

I saw the Pyramids of Mars the other day. Quite a good story, and nice alien baddy (although they should have stuck with the helmeted version. The jackal head looked rubbish.)

I noticed something at the start where Sarah Jane puts on a white dress and the Doctor remarks “That belonged to Victoria, she travelled with me for a while.” (Meaning Queen Victoria.)

So she forgot about him before the Bad Wolf episode and set up Torchwood against him, and other ‘alien menaces’? Her mind was wiped?

Hee hee.

[Ian Symes]

OR! He may have been referring to his former companion Victoria, who travelled with the Second Doctor.

[ChrisM]

Possibly. I thought it might be another companion, but I think he mentioned Albert as well.

[Ian Symes]

No, he definitely meant his companion Victoria.

[Dave]

The Doctor says “Hello Vicky” (which is something he never called Victoria), and then “that (frock) belonged to Victoria, she travelled with me for a time.” Then Sarah jokes that she hopes Albert didn’t wear it as well.

[pfm]

Yes he was referring to Victoria the companion but Sarah thought he meant the queen. Maybe in 20 years time there’ll be a pink hoodie lying around and the 18th Doctor will say ‘that belonged to Rose…I still wank over her you know’ and the current companion will go ‘oh you mean Rose out of the popular Russell T Davies series “Bob and Rose”?’

[ChrisM]

Ok that makes sense. I haven’t seen much of Old Who so I’m sure you understand my mistake. (He does make references to knowing Michael Angelo etc, so it made sense to me he might have had one or two ‘famous’ companions in the past… off-screen as it were.)

In City of Death, I believe he make a reference to having met Shakespeare too. It doesn’t really clash with the new Who Shakespeare episode though, as the Bard seemed fairly young in that. His earlier intersection with Shakespeare’s life might have been later in Shakespeare’s life. (Does that sound confusing? What I mean is, earlier in The Doctor’s life, he met The Bard, later in his life… oh never mind…

Of course he could have been telling porky pies to impress that saucy villainess character.

[Pete Part Three]

>He does make references to knowing Michael Angelo etc

The two lead characters from the popular children’s sitcom of the 1990’s?

[ChrisM]

Ha ha. Possibly. I’m sure Michel D’Angelo would love the comparison. I probably got the French version of his name wrong there.

[Ben Paddon]

Did anyone see what flashed up on the TARDIS monitor briefly when Donna went to check it?

[ChrisM]

Yes. I think someone is trying to get a message through don’t you?

[Pete Part Three]

Talk about over-egging it. She is *just* a companion.

A reasonable conclusion to a rather limp two parter. It was better than the Daleks story from last year but it was still pretty ropey.

Next week’s episode seems kinda cheesy. At least we can finally get a conclusion to the Doctor’s disembodied hand; that thing has been floating around for far too long.

This should be great, but a limited selection hampers things somewhat : http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/trailermaker/

[Ben Paddon]

I thought the Sontaran two-parter was delicious, personally.

[ChrisM]

>Next week?s episode seems kinda cheesy

It did didn’t it? Miss Doctor junior flipping between the laser beams. Show off.

Have to admit I loved it though. I don’t mind a bit of silliness from time to time. Not sure if that humor will be entirely in line with the ‘reality’ of the Whoverse (if I may borrow a Firefly term. The verse bit. Obviously.) but I don’t mind it trying something new.

Dracula’s smoke reincorporating a couple of times after getting steaked wasn’t exactly Buffyverse ‘true’ but… it was a good gag. Especially bearing in mind the old hammer horrors.

[si]

I enjoyed Saturday’s episode. Loved the nod to the Brig (or ‘Sir Alistair’, to give him his proper title), the gas-mask/’are you my mummy?’ gag, flash of Rose, mention of Jack, return of Martha… a good story.

Next week’s looks interesting, although the ‘Hello Dad’ line would have perhaps had more impact had the Doctor not just said “She’s my daughter”…

[Dave]

Brigadier Sir Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart.

The name that just keeps on going.

[pfm]

It’s interesting how they keep using the pre-credits sting in the ‘next time’ of each episode. You can pretty much guarantee ‘hello Dad!’ (surely that’s the worst phrase any man could possibly hear from a hot girl. Unless she’s calling you the daddy…) will be the sting for episode 6 much like ‘Doctor, it’s Martha, and I’m gonna pretty much break the fourth wall by saying this line in a stupidly overdramatic way almost to camera’)

[Seb Patrick]

Gah, the first episode I’m genuinely intrigued by, and I won’t see it until Sunday night ‘cos of the Bristol Expo!

Still, I’m interviewing New Who’s Second Best Writer that very night, so it ain’t all bad…

[si]

Who would that be? Stephen Moffat (I’d say he was probably the best, actually)? I can’t see you interviewing Russell the T, though.

[Pete Part Three]

Paul Cornell, presumably?

[Dave]

Glen McCoy

[Seb Patrick]

Yeah, Moffat is obviously the #1, anyone who says otherwise am An Fool. It’s Cornell I’m interviewing.

[ChrisM]

So what’d you think of the latest episode The Doctor’s Daughter? My thoughts on it, obviously spoilers galore:

I thought that hand would be used, but it wasn’t. (A good thing actually as I like to be surprised.) Don’t really get why the hand would bubble so though. It won’t bubble if the Doctor is across the room, so I don’t see why it would bubble if another member of the species is in a completely different part of time and space…

Or why the Tardis suddenly went there. I guess it must be set to automatically home in on other Time Lords?… except she didn’t exist until he got there… ok I guess that was the paradox thing the Doctor mentioned at the end.

Also the idea they’ve only been there for a short period of time only works if all the original people who crashed were killed (which I don’t really buy) or are just keeping quiet, which is probably the case actually as the old guy leading the humes likely didn’t just come out of a tank recently. People born from the tanks would all be young surely. Actually that makes sense with all his warmongering. Also makes sense considering the fish were less bloodthirsty, considering how quick they accepted Martha. (Ok she helped one, but even so.) i.e. maybe they’re aware it’s only been going on a short period, but they have to fight cos those pesky humes keep on trying to fry them.

I think the story would still have worked better if the war really had been going on for generations. However, as just a lot of background stuff for the main thing, essentially a character story, and a message on the downright silliness of war, it worked. Another terraforming device in two episodes!

Despite all my nitpicking above, it was very enjoyable I thought. Lovely new cheeky character, played by the daughter of an ex Doctor actor too. Not sure they satisfactorily explained why she didn’t regenerate when she died though, apart from the fact they want to stick with the same actress… and rightly too.

“She’s not enough like you…” Why not? Is it a specific Time Lord thing as opposed to a run of the mill Galifreyan? I.e. one who hasn’t looked into the time vortex? Or is it something a timelord has to do intentionally rather than by reflex?
“She’s too much like me.” I’m probably being thick, but I don’t get why that would prevent her regenerating.

The way they brought her back felt a bit like “The Search for Spock”, (and you’d think the gas would be more likely to cause fungi to grow out of her than bring her back to life considering what it does to the planet.) but it was an interesting little twist just the same, and I got it. Gas brings life, she became alive, ok.

I’m glad they found a way to bring her back (although I don’t buy the method.) She’s a great new character and I imagine she’ll be back sometime.

Oh, and interesting new fish aliens.

[Pete Part Three]

>So what?d you think of the latest episode The Doctor?s Daughter?

A whole world of “meh”. Stunt-casting aside, Georgia Moffett did very little except look gorgeous. There was nothing to the character aside from the “Family” gimmick and the awful bit with the laser beams. No doubt she will be back. The set-up was executed in a horrendous light-weight fashion in the pre-credits sequence…as was the coda.

The plot? I wasn’t paying much attention because, well, it failed to grip me. It was a nice idea to have a seven day war but we saw very little negative effects of the battles so there wasn’t any weight to it. Not entirely sure what Martha was doing in this episode (she’s lovely, preferable to Billie and Tate, but she’s never been more wooden).

I also find it alarming that most of the writers of Who seem to thinking “running” is an integral part of an episode. More so when they go all “post-modern” and point it out to the audience.

And I think I preferred The Hath, when they were called The Ood.

>I thought that hand would be used, but it wasn?t.

Ditto. Beginning to wonder if it will ever serve any purpose.

>Or why the Tardis suddenly went there. I guess it must be set to automatically home in on other Time Lords?? except she didn?t exist until he got there? ok I guess that was the paradox thing the Doctor mentioned at the end.

Which is fine, but why did the TARDIS go there THEN. Why not 900 years ago or whenever, or did it wait until he was feeling lonely?

[Dave]

>>I thought that hand would be used, but it wasn?t.
>Ditto. Beginning to wonder if it will ever serve any purpose

It waves

[Jonsmad]

Doctor Dwarf part 67108524

Doctor: She’s a Generated Anomally

Cat: Nice to meet you Jenny Who?

[Andrew]

Interesting thought: The Doctor has previously ascribed the inability to travel between dimensions to a lack of Time Lords. (In The Age of Steel.)

Could Jenny’s hand be involved in Rose’s return? Hell, could Jenny’s hand be the one was see at the end of Series 3 picking up the Master’s ring?

Not bad, not great. Decent performances, and Moffett actually had more oomph than Freema. Don’t agree that the Hath and the Ood are interchangeable at all, but I really feel we got a handle on them as a species. Their origins, and their place in the war, was awfully muddy. The language thing was a mess, too – sometimes it seemed they couldn’t be understood, or didn’t speak, and others suggested Martha could understand them. But if so, why couldn’t we?

Standard Who problem with the battles, too, that we get very little sense of the geography – lots of generic “We’re here, they’re there, we go this way and we get there first” stuff. Sure, budget means you can’t film it all joining together…but even Paul SW Anderson (spit) knows how to cheat around that by filming A MAP clearly.

Creation of Jenny seemed awfully arbitrary – “Ooh, a newbie; quick, clone him!” Why not the women, then or later? The seven days thing works okay, until you look at the older military guy. Why did they create a older soldier? Where’s the sense in that? His function was to kill Jenny, but he simply couldn’t have been world-weary and battered enough for his motivation to work; he’s only a few days old (at most) than Jenny. Another child in an adult body, programmed but not yet wise. A missed chance there to do something more interesting.

To be honest, this story could have been more artful – as could the last two – if combined with the Sontaran stuff. We have cloning, war mentality, terraforming…they’d actually have blended very neatly.

Colour me entertained, but ultimately indifferent.

[Andrew]

Oh, and I thought the revelation was going to be that the whole situation was a bigger intelligence’s giant experiment. Enclosed environment, perpetually regenerating troops. It’s half way between ‘rats in a maze’ and ‘video game’.

[ChrisM]

Creation of Jenny seemed awfully arbitrary – ?Ooh, a newbie; quick, clone him!? Why not the women, then or later?

I wondered about that too. Thing is, the Hath suddenly attacked after Jenny was created, but I think it was their plan to clone (for want of a better word, it’s not strictly cloning) the others too, but things just took off.

True, with all the chatting later, they could have cloned Donna as well. I’m just assuming their minds were on other things by that point. Also bear in mind when the doctor was processed, they weren’t aware that they were not a member of the community at that point. A bit later they suddenly realised they were outsiders, and perhaps they figured it might not be an good idea to get further genetic material. That’s pure speculation on my part of course but look how they treated Jenny at being created from the biology of a pacifist, even though, up until that point she showed every sign of being devoted to their own cause. Ironically doing that meant she ended up spending more time with the Doctor and switching sides…

The seven days thing works okay, until you look at the older military guy. Why did they create a older soldier? Where?s the sense in that?

I wondered that too, but I’m not sure he actually was one of those who were generated. I think he might have been one of those who landed and started the war.
Here’s my thoughts on it from earlier (hope it’s not arrogant to quote myself. Just don’t want to type it all out again, and it’s easier than linking to my entire post as I wrote a lot…)

Also the idea they?ve only been there for a short period of time only works if all the original people who crashed were killed (which I don?t really buy) or are just keeping quiet, which is probably the case actually as the old guy leading the humes likely didn?t just come out of a tank recently. People born from the tanks would all be young surely. Actually that makes sense with all his warmongering. Also makes sense considering the fish were less bloodthirsty, considering how quick they accepted Martha. (Ok she helped one, but even so.) i.e. maybe they?re aware it?s only been going on a short period, but they have to fight cos those pesky humes keep on trying to fry them.

I said up there that it was ‘probably the case’ but I think that’s putting it a bit strongly as there was nowhere it was actually stated in the episode. Pure speculation on my part really, but worth a thought.

[ChrisM]

I agree they were plot-holes though that could have been easily filled with a bit more thought.

Weakest episode in this series so far I think (at least in terms of plot) but I enjoyed it.

[Paul Muller]

Was I the only one screaming ‘ARTAX!’ when the Hath died in the swamp?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=y688upqmRXo

[Seb Patrick]

True, with all the chatting later, they could have cloned Donna as well. I?m just assuming their minds were on other things by that point.

Well, there was a cover for that – it felt a bit shoehorned in, but there was the explanation that the machines get shut down at certain times. So the way I read it was : Doctor gets cloned, Hath attack before they can do the rest, and then once it calms down the machines are powered down anyway…

[Seb Patrick]

(and just to add, I’m clearly in a minority, but I thought it was alright. It was definitely flawed, but by series four standards it wasn’t half bad, and better than anything so far except perhaps Ood)

[Seb Patrick]

Doctor Dwarf part 67108524

Doctor: She?s a Generated Anomally

Cat: Nice to meet you Jenny Who?

As soon as I read that Donna was the one to name Jenny, and that it was a pun of some kind, I KNEW this was going to happen.

[Ian Symes]

Was I the only one screaming ?ARTAX!? when the Hath died in the swamp?

No, I did that too!

[Pete Part Three]

*Blub*

[Ridley]

I just rolled my eyes and said Atreyu did the scene better than that. If that counts.

[Andrew]

> I?m clearly in a minority, but I thought it was alright.

I agree. ‘Fine’ for me. But damn that’s a lot of holes for Who; I’m all for avoiding over-exposition, but the cloning, warring, Hath and resurrection were ALL under-explained.

[ChrisM]

Indeed.

I thought the resurrection was due to the eco gas, but I noticed that it seemed to come out of her mouth before she sucked it back in. Kinda like that stuff Tenant’s doctor leaked after his resurrection.

So was it a time-lord resurrection? (The same form could be due to her choice, as apparently Time-ladies can choose their appearance…. at least Romana could. As far I’ve read on the web. Or maybe it was just a partial regeneration, like heart, wounds etc…?)

Or did she breathe the gas in earlier earlier when the room was full of it?

Yes definitely plenty of questions.
Maybe they’ll be answered when we see her character again. I suspect she will turn up again at some point. I also suspect they’ll just gloss over the explanation… but we’ll see.

[Pete Part Three]

I read on another thread somewhere (think it was Digital Spy) that there were some deliberate religious allegories in this episode what with the world being created in seven days and Jenny being ressurrected. Make of that what you will.

Anyway, it was certainly odd that she sprung back into life rather than being regenerated. The presence of the weird mist (from the heart of the TARDIS, right?) made it reminiscent of the way they resurrected CJ and made him near-immortal. Perhaps this will excuse John Simm returning as the Master, if it should ever happen.

Not in any great hurry to see Jenny again, mind. Well, unless they actually sort out a character for her instead of relying on Moffett being as cute as a button to win over the audience.

[Andrew]

> The presence of the weird mist (from the heart of the TARDIS, right?)

This is where some clarity would have helped. There was some green in the mist that wasn’t in the regeneration/heart of the TARDIS colouring, but WAS in the eco stuff. Which suggests that yeah, she breathed it in while alive, and it brought her back (allowing her exhale it) once dead.

[Dave]

It seemed entirely possible for me to create a fully grown female clone, using my own DNA as a template. This of course created the most enormous moral dilemma. Technically, she would be my daughter, and therefore unable to take me as her lover. After much soul searching, I reluctantly decided, “What the hell”, I just wouldn’t tell her.

[Author]

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