Mundane observation dome

[Warbodog]

Do you have any miscellaneous insights on the series that may be worth contemplating for a few seconds before moving on with our lives? Here are some of mine.

1. The four regulars have names that can work any way around, though this would have been more obvious if David Ross had stayed and wouldn’t work if Chris Barrie used his real name.

2. The series’ lax attitude to continuity extends to the setting. Outside of Holly’s distress calls, I don’t think three million years is mentioned all that much after series I and before VI (not sure about later years). Instead, we get the extremely fudged “dead for centuries” and “travelling for thousands of years” – not actual retcons, but suggesting a more conventional setting for casual viewers tuning in and the sort of stories they’re telling. It’s only millions when they need it to be.

3. 200 years of stasis between series V and VI means that the earlier series took place in their equivalent of the early 19th century by comparison (e.g. Blackadder the Third). Since they didn’t run into a long-lived Camille or one of her great-great-etc grandchildren, it didn’t come up.

4. Although Lister is routinely slagged off in the series, he’s spared the level of seemingly authoritative character assassination that Rimmer gets, because the audience is aligned with Lister’s viewpoint most of the time. For example, we see Kochanski Camille belittling Rimmer’s interests, but we don’t get the equivalent of Hologram Camille reacting to Lister’s pickup lines, we’re left to form our own opinions on those. This flimsy point has not been considered much beyond this single example.

5. Cat’s costumes are overwhelmingly referenced more than anyone else’s in the series, but the least discussed by fans.

6. Ace Rimmer and Duane Dibbley were so seemingly ubiquitous in canon and tie-in merchandise through the 90s (Smegazine strips, T-shirts) that they still feel overused today, even though it’s been over 20 years since they appeared. Maybe they’re allowed back after all.

7. Only series III & V and maybe XI & XII (not as familiar with those) don’t have any sense of an arc whatsoever (though IV’s minor Kryten disobedience arc was already fucked up by episode shuffling). Series III is just about the only series where no episode directly references any previous episode, but it still has the Backwards scrolling text and general references to Rimmer having died and stuff.

8. One of the series’ most famous and quoted scenes – everybody’s dead, Dave – is a straight-up 2001: A Space Odyssey homage and would have been received that way at the time, but doesn’t work like that for most people coming to the episode later on or new viewers who are young or don’t watch old films.

9. Sometimes dismissed as lightweight and gimmicky today, Backwards was designed as an innovative interactive experience to reward extracurricular effort. As well as inviting fans to work out the backwards events and filming logistics, Arthur Smith’s eugolonom is teasingly long and “you scoundrels” is clearly a cleaned-up translation gag even before you’ve heard it. Unfortunately, by the time technology caught up with the intent and the ability to reverse media files properly on home computers became commonplace, Backwards Forwards came out and everyone just cheated with the walkthrough.

Imagine the quality of the musings I left out!

Topic

[Flap Jack]

It’s gold, you twonks

Yes, gold as a daffodil.

[Moonlight]

Where is this five year old and how can I cast him in my new multi-cam sitcom “Kids Say the Damndest Things”?

[Rushy]

Yes, gold as a daffodil.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

In Holoship, the holo crew are might to be the smartest of the smart and yet don’t recognise that Rimmer is attempting to cheat, or had a complete personality change

[Dave]

In Holoship, the holo crew are might to be the smartest of the smart and yet don’t recognise that Rimmer is attempting to cheat, or had a complete personality change

I’ve always rationalised that as them buying Rimmer’s bravado when he tells Air-Cooled Platini that he’s made of officer material, after his experiences on Red Dwarf for the past few years. Also, perhaps they don’t see his progress in the test given that he only wins by default after Nirvanah withdraws.

They still should have been a bit surprised that Stocky got it all so wrong, though.

[pi r squared]

They still should have been a bit surprised that Stocky got it all so wrong, though.

I don’t know that we can say Stocky got it “wrong”. It offered a probability of failure, which was very high but not impossible. 4% is about the same odds as getting a straight in Texas Hold’em – it’s not inconceivable that Nirvanah sacrificing her life and Rimmer winning by default was factored into the calculations.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Isn’t the point, maybe unspoken, that emotion wasn’t factored into it at all. 

They (and the computer) thought it inconceivable two people could fall in love and sacrifice themselves for each other. 

To them, the very concept was illogical. 

[Dave]

Star Trek crap, too early in the morning etc.

[pi r squared]

The arrogant and elitist crew who believe that concepts of “love” are beneath them – sure. But there’s nothing to suggest Stocky wouldn’t have factored it in or considered it inconceivable – in fact, given that it (presumably) knew Nirvanah’s IQ and could make a pretty educated guess at Rimmer’s, it must be factoring something in that gives it that 4% possibility of success, given that all other things being equal Nirvanah would have a 100% chance of trouncing him in any battle of wits.

[Dave]

Maybe they were lying and their computer was Snacky instead of Stocky.

[Warbodog]

Holly seems to confirm in Confidence & Paranoia that Red Dwarf was still in the Milky Way.

This loosens up across the Doug years, from what may be excused as exaggerated phrasing

to probably just Doug forgetting.

[Ben Saunders]

I’ve just watched the entire Hartnell era so I’m used to words like solar system, galaxy and universe being used almost interchangeably and in various inexplicably insane ways, and “unknown galaxy on the outer reaches of the solar system” sounds straight out of The Daleks Master Plan.

[Rushy]

I’ve just watched the entire Hartnell era so I’m used to words like solar system, galaxy and universe being used almost interchangeably and in various inexplicably insane ways, and “unknown galaxy on the outer reaches of the solar system” sounds straight out of The Daleks Master Plan.

I do find that interesting. Rob comes across as a very modern kind of writer who spends hours working out how every little piece of technology works and makes sense onboard the ship. 

Doug seems more old-fashioned, the kind of loosey-goosey writer who uses generic space jargon as a shorthand to get to the story he wants to tell. But some of Rob did stick with him, so you get a kind of halfway mix of things making sense and things being handwaved. 

I do find Doug’s type to be very endearing though. There’s a kind of earnest simplicity to aging sci-fi writers who still have gravity in space, and can’t tell the difference between the solar system and the galaxy. 

[Rushy]

I can’t wait for the next Red Dwarf story, where Kryten proudly declares that the ship has just entered the Fourth Universe. 

[Moonlight]

This isn’t elaborated on but the way Rimmer describes Thickie Holden gives off the vibe that he would gleefully join in on the schoolyard bullying of anyone lower in social standing than himself just to feel included / have some semblance of power.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

This isn’t elaborated on but the way Rimmer describes Thickie Holden gives off the vibe that he would gleefully join in on the schoolyard bullying of anyone lower in social standing than himself just to feel included / have some semblance of power.

Of course he would. He punches down to Lister and then gets annoyed when Lister doesn’t react to it (or when the officers don’t take his reports seriously)

[Warbodog]

to feel included / have some semblance of power

and

[Cardinal_Hordriss]

Holly seems to confirm in Confidence & Paranoia that Red Dwarf was still in the Milky Way.

This loosens up across the Doug years, from what may be excused as exaggerated phrasing

to probably just Doug forgetting.

Even travelling at lightspeed all the time the Red Dwarf couldn’t have made it out of the Milkyway let alone cross the vast expanse to Andromeda. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Holly seems to confirm in Confidence & Paranoia that Red Dwarf was still in the Milky Way.
This loosens up across the Doug years, from what may be excused as exaggerated phrasing
to probably just Doug forgetting.

Even travelling at lightspeed all the time the Red Dwarf couldn’t have made it out of the Milkyway let alone cross the vast expanse to Andromeda. 

The Milky Way is 100,000 light years across. If Red Dwarf was travelling at light speed for 3million years (which it wasn’t, but in your hypothetical it is) then they sure would have left the Milky Way behind relatively quite early on in their journey. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Let’s not forget we’re at the edge of the Milky Way, if you went in the other direction you’d be out of it before lunch time. 

[Cardinal_Hordriss]

Sorry, I misremembered the diameter, muddled it up with the distance to Andromeda. 

Starting again lol.

They only other galaxy they could reach at lightspeed in 3 million years is Andromeda, but Future Echoes would seem to suggest that they were not travelling at lightspeed for the duration of the journey. As Andromeda is around 2.537 million lightyears away there is no way Red Dwarf could have reached it short of passing through a wormhole.

[Warbodog]

We don’t know what direction Holly went in and whether he stuck to it or wandered around. Though they are consistent in describing Earth as “three million years away” from Future Echoes to Out of Time (thanks, Smega Drive), and Holly doesn’t correct them when he’s there, so it sounds like it would take the same amount of time to go straight back.

[Dave]

they are consistent in describing Earth as “three million years away”

But that’s meaningless unless you know how fast they’re going.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

they are consistent in describing Earth as “three million years away”
But that’s meaningless unless you know how fast they’re going.

The speed of dark

which realistically should be instantaneous 

[Warbodog]

The speed of dick

[paintings]

We don’t know what direction Holly went in and whether he stuck to it or wandered around. Though they are consistent in describing Earth as “three million years away” from Future Echoes to Out of Time (thanks, Smega Drive), and Holly doesn’t correct them when he’s there, so it sounds like it would take the same amount of time to go straight back.

Them sticking with the same “3 million years” figure is the most believable part.

The show has been running for nearly 40 years and there’s that extra 200 years of suspended animation at the start of Series VI. Call it 240 years in total.

* If they were consistently headed towards Earth, they’ve still got 2,999,760 years of the journey to go.

* If they were consistently headed away from Earth, the journey time has lengthened to 3,000,240 years.

Both of these figures round to 3 million years (the error is approximately 0.008%). I suppose you could make a joke of sorts about Holly correcting them (“It’s actually two million, nine hundred and ninety nine thousand, seven hundred and sixty years”) and Lister or Rimmer (or perhaps even Kryten) complaining about Holly’s pedantry…

[International Debris]

In-universe time is less than our time, though. VIII was broadcast 11 years after the show started, but it’s just “five, six years” for Lister. BtE happens “nine years later” when it’s more than 10 for us. And of course we also get lengthy deep sleep and stasis periods in Nanarchy and Krysis.

[Moonlight]

Also there’s no knowing where the hell they’re going while chasing Red Dwarf.

[Warbodog]

It turned out Holly was always rounding up anyway, infuriatingly.

[Warbodog]

Not a great argument from Rimmer, the computer simulacrum. I guess he’s saying that the character in the game isn’t a real person (which holograms are), but it’s not like Lister’s pursuing a relationship, just sticking his dick in something more interesting than the vaguely woman-shaped balloons they used to have to make do with.

Though this retrospectively makes the deception in Back to Reality more convincing.

[Technopeasant]

[Dave]

[Warbodog]

[Dave]

[Dave]

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

[Warbodog]

[Warbodog]

[Podey]

Unexpected Red Dwarf reference in Botchamania at around the 10 minute mark. 
https://youtu.be/4yBn26j6DwY

Then again there’s a clip from Jam (I think, I always preferred the radio show) a minute later so maybe not that surprising.

[Rushy]

To this day, I don’t fully get what Lister is trying to say about moonlight. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

To this day, I don’t fully get what Lister is trying to say about moonlight. 

Rimmer shines because he has Lister

Or Lister shines because he has Rimmer

[Warbodog]

Are these supposed to be:

– real (i.e. non-fiction) places

– real in-universe places (moons, space cities, future Earth cities)

– or just sounds they’ve made up for the rhyme that don’t have to mean anything?

Juno always sounded like it was another moon, like Titan, but it doesn’t seem to be. The capital of Alaska, Juneah, seems to be pronounced like that.

I always thought the second was Polanski, as the Tongue Tied wiki has it, which might be a strange way of saying Poland.

[Ian Symes]

[Nick R]

Juno always sounded like it was another moon, like Titan, but it doesn’t seem to be.

It’s an asteroid. A plausible place for a JMC crew member to have visited!

[Warbodog]

I didn’t think about asteroids, that’s probably it!

If only Petersen had been to Mars, it would’ve been an easier rhyme.

[Ben Saunders]

I’ve been to Juno, I’ve been to Mars, I fingered Kochanski at a showing of Cars

[Podey]

So when Lister bemoans the fact the “there are only two words that rhyme with Kochanski”, are we to take it that the other one he’s referring to is “Bolanski”? 

[Dave]

I’ve been to the Winter Olympics

I’ve seen a man ski

[Warbodog]

I’ve been to Poland,

I’ve been to Gdańsk. E?

[Dave]

I’ve done backing vocals for the Eurythmics 

I’ve sung in Ann’s key

[Author]

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