Refresh For The Memory: Series VIII Byte 1

[Ian Symes]

You asked for it. Ahead of the forthcoming 35th anniversary poll, the G&T community is embarking on a big old rewatch, tackling half a series (or one feature length special) per week. This is your designated thread to make notes, share observations and start pondering your rankings.

This week, we’re watching BACK IN THE RED (PART ONE), BACK IN THE RED (PART TWO), BACK IN THE RED (PART THREE) and CASSANDRA. Have at it!

Previous threads:

Series 1 Byte 1
Series 1 Byte 2
Series 2 Byte 1
Series 2 Byte 2
Series III Byte 1
Series III Byte 2
Series IV Byte 1
Series IV Byte 2
Series V Byte 1
Series V Byte 2
Series VI Byte 1
Series VI Byte 2
Series VII Byte 1
Series VII Byte 2

[Ian Symes]

[Jonathan Capps]

This week, we’re watching BACK IN THE RED (PART ONE), BACK IN THE RED (PART TWO), BACK IN THE RED (PART THREE) and CASSANDRA

Speak for yourself

[Dave]

You asked for it.

Never has this sounded more like a threat.

[Moonlight]

I keep forgetting just how much of a slog Back in the Red is because I got used to a fan-edit I made a few years ago that cuts the entire thing down to just over 45 minutes (not that I watch it a lot, but editing sure burns it into your brain). I’m debating whether to subject myself to Extended for this thread.

[Stilianides]

Back in the Red 1

The concept for this series seemed odd at the time, and now it seems utterly bizarre. Doug had the chance to make 8 episodes with the the main four actors and Norman for the first time ever, and instead decided to fill the ship with hundreds of wacky wazzocks. Despite Series VIII having the same lavish budget as all-star primetime BBC1 sitcom Dinnerladies (yes, I know Doug put a different spin on it), it’s no surprise that they ran out of money when they were spaffing it away on dodgy actors, dodgy extras and dodgy dinosaurs. I know Doug wanted to feature the entire crew with half an eye on the movie, but their sitcom craziness is a world away from anything cinematic.

The opening scene drags on forever and doesn’t really stand up well to repeated viewings. At one stage, I assumed that it was a reference to Star Trek actor James Doohan and him becoming a father at 80 or so, but I think his daughter was born a year after this series. There are one or two decent lines, but it’s an underwhelming way to start the episode. “Congealed monkey vomit” feels like an attempt to write a Rob line, and Rimmer would probably enjoy a three day seminar about plumbing.

My feelings towards the Starbug cockpit scene mimic pretty well my feelings to Series VIII as a whole. There are amusing lines and good bits, but there are also unfunny comedy ideas (eg. Nostrilomo) that get in the way of the plot and that should have been cut during the writing stage. 

The model work during the crash itself is pretty impressive, however, and Chris Veale also had more time and money on this series which means the overall look of VIII isn’t too bad.

There are several cringe moments – “Lemonade with a large scotch…”, “Yes, Mr. Shouty.” and “I’m Nigel, I’m nice.” The latter should have been just a still photograph (if used at all).

There are moments in this episode that I enjoy, though, and it’s true that it is funnier and does have a much better atmosphere than VII. Making an entire series without an audience was a terrible idea, and that is made abundantly clear across these 8 episodes. Chris and Craig’s chemistry is still there (even when the material lets them down) and Norman was still the master of the one liner (in his fleeting appearances). The energy is a world away from ‘Nanarchy’ and that makes it a more enjoyable watch, despite the flaws (one flaw is that it can feel a bit like a sketch show, due to having to incorporate the scenes with the Cat, Kryten and Kochanski, Hollister etc.). 
Chris Barrie’s timing was very much intact at this point and I can appreciate his delivery of “…how?” and “OK, I’ll do it”. The writing might be considered formulaic, but he sells it well. It was also a good idea to include a lot of Rimmer and Lister together. Not because of any mythical ‘bunkroom scenes’ concept, but because they are the heart and soul of the show. I wish the material wasn’t so broad and cartoony, but I would take stuff like this over jealous Kryten any day of the week.

“The world loves a bastard” is a fan-pleasing way to end the episode, but I don’t like the way that it’s going to be resolved in episode 2.

[Warbodog]

Back in the Red part 1

I learned this series was happening when seeing the trailer right after a series 2 remastered episode, which may have been earlier the same week or the week before.

Having caught up on most of Red Dwarf in the gap since Nanarchy, I was probably less hyped than the average fan for new material (I was more excited to find series V on video shortly after), but there was still some hype to go around.

– I didn’t get the thematic relevance of the chalk tally until my younger brother pointed it out, either late in the series or afterwards (maybe when he realised himself). I just thought they were being quirky.

– The opening is a bit Last Human, teasing us with mysteries and foreshadowing. Mostly spoiled by the trailer.

– With all the nervous anticipation of the series VIII rewatch, I didn’t realise quite how much Lister being deliberately annoying was an act until it was over and he became more recognisable. It’s still something that happened and I had to sit through though.

– Kochanski makes her clever suggestion per episode of where they should fly to, maybe the last gasp of her VII characterisation?

– Starbug sodomising a rat is quite a funny visual, in a rude kids’ movie kind of way. The rat-arsed joke was a major groaner though. “They don’t like it when” sounds more like the school playground retelling.

– Destroying the long-serving Starbug has some dramatic weight, but it mainly just feels like chucking it in the bin as part of the transition.

– Dumb music aside, the reveal of the resurrected crew was pretty good. They surprisingly don’t speculate about why the nanobots brought them back, or explicitly link it with the redesigned ship, but that all makes sense with the nanos wanting to make amends last time (“it’s been a 500% success”).

– It’s not a plot hole that microscopic robots could locate remnants of human ashes that didn’t get swept up, or just other DNA debris like Rimmer’s dandruff. The “molecular process” shrinking bit is desperate technobabble bollocks though.

– Having now seen every episode of The Twilight Zone, I still think Holly’s using it as general shorthand for “strange goings-on, doo-doo-doo-doo” rather than a specific reference (closest might be the department store with a mysterious 9th floor in ‘The After Hours’?)

– Shots of Holly noticeably change between him delivering plot-relevant information and trilogy-padding gags (Nigel, etc).

– Rimmer’s entry into the main plot is nicely delayed – of course he’s been resurrected too! Shame it’s a really disappointing scene. Telling us that it’s how Rimmer “used to be” is just asking for nitpicking though.

– Kryten speculating about the nanobots’ motives always stood out as a weird and unnecessary scene (presumably expanded filler), with all its random references. But without it, Kochanski would just be forgotten like a series V Holly.

– They’re supposedly not in the simulation yet, but Cat has decorative guts and a cool pulse rhythm. Nothing makes any sense no matter where we are.

– “Knowledge is power, who said that?” “I don’t know” is nearly a good gag. I didn’t bother to note of all of those instances.

– I was very surprised that I actually liked the psychiatric counsellor scene! I’d thought of Dr McLaren being the worst example of the revived cartoon crew, but I enjoyed the performance and his patronising attitude to the clearly deranged robot as he extracts exposition for the captain and new viewers.

– Kryten’s random violence was funny too, but not as much as the Emotion Show. What the fuck is that?

– That luck virus in the glove compartment might have come in handy at some point during the last two series, right up to the Starbug crash.

– A bit of a random scene to end on, almost like this wasn’t written as three 30-minute episodes or something.

– Why didn’t they use the Remastered flyover for the end credits rather than this nothing?

There’s still some warmth to this episode that means I don’t really hate it on its own, but when ranking it, it didn’t get very far through the VII dregs. Not a good sign!

[Ian Symes]

I’m debating whether to subject myself to Extended for this thread.

This is of course up to you, but if you’re doing this rewatch with the 35th anniversary poll in mind, remember that we treat each part as an individual episode. I think people mostly differentiate between the parts of Back In The Red and Pete anyway, but this will be more pertinent in a couple of weeks when we get to Back To Earth, given that the directors cut is kind of the default way of watching that one.

[Flap Jack]

Back in the Red is the only Xtended episode that is actually tempting to me, on account of it actually being shorter.

Overall I prefer not to watch all of Back in the Red in one sitting, though.

[International Debris]

Oh God, how to even do this without it turning into a standard Everything That’s Wrong With VIII rant?

I remember the trailer looking surprisingly cinematic, dramatic, with the crew back and the main characters going to prison. How was this going to be resolved after the series opener? Very exciting. 

The general theory is that the reason for the more sitcommy approach was a reaction to the poor fan response to VII’s more serious approach. I just don’t see why he decided to remove all the character stuff and atmosphere that makes Red Dwarf Red Dwarf. 

BitR Part 1

I remember the opening scene being utterly baffled as to what the fuck was going on. 

”thought that was the baby at first”. Getting the overexplained jokes in at the start. 

God this is like a shit Craig Charles standup routine. Terrible, terrible jokes, performed with all the subtlety of a brick in the crotch. Both cheeks man and Rimmer’s face during the whole thing, absolutely unwatchable shite. 

Unlike the end of Out of Time, the Nanarchy cliffhanger did not need resolving. 

Kochanski’s hair has grown a lot in the last five minutes. 

Charades using just your nose isn’t too bad a joke, but it doesn’t need to actually to carry on into the game.

God this scene is terrible. Loads of “the same chance as” jokes that don’t work, the whole thing just plodding on forever. 

“There’s a heart out there with no body? No wonder it’s beating so fast.” What?!

Rat Arsed is ruined by Norman’s smug smile. What happened to him being so deadpan?

Stop explaining the gags!

God this scene is still going. 

Ugh. 

Return of the crew. This honestly isn’t a bad idea for a one off story. It’s not an especially good one, but it could work. 

I like the corridor scenes, they really make the ship look big. 

Rimmer is reacting to the whole ‘brig’ situation as if he knows about it, despite it being described as confidential only two minutes before. 

Rimmer buys Lister’s story so quickly. I love the way this is meant to be the original Rimmer and yet he’s written and performed as a totally unrecognisable character.

Kochanski describing meeting her as being “after” Red Dwarf was resurrected, and that being a “benefit”. Great scripting. 

lol tampons are horrible. 

Colour-coordinated organs, decorated stomach wall, “cool” heartbeat. Fucking hell, there’s not even a slight concession to the show taking its sci-fi seriously here. Terrible, terrible. 

Missing persons getting a round of applause. Jesus, this audience are easy to please. 

This scene is the closest to the original Rimmer and Lister dynamic that VIII gets. And it’s not very close. Or funny. 

“You really think- ok I’ll do it”. I still remember that being the moment I realised something was up. The writing and performance are just so much broader than the earlier series that it doesn’t feel like the same show at all. Just obvious and unnatural. 

McLaren and Kryten together is a good comedy scenario, Kryten’s completely honest answers treated as insanity by the psychiatrist, and the first couple of minutes are indeed mildly amusing. Chair screws is a shit returning gag and it begins to fall apart. 

Viruses in the cockpit. Everyone forgot about them when they needed them for the last two and a half series. 

Sickbags on standby can fuck right off.

Good gags:

Karaoke bar on C-deck.

You have a very fine haircut. 

Irrational anger. 

The world loves a bastard. 

[Warbodog]

Rimmer is reacting to the whole ‘brig’ situation as if he knows about it, despite it being described as confidential only two minutes before. 

I suppose he could have known about it, with his longer stint maintaining the ship. I never caught that.

Kochanski describing meeting her as being “after” Red Dwarf was resurrected, and that being a “benefit”. Great scripting.

That used to trip me up back in the day, but it’s just saying they met her after they lost trace of Red Dwarf and it went inside Starbug (pre Out of Time). The whole scene is shite though. The big reintroductory episode attracting the most casual viewers ever (including my mum, who didn’t come back) and they’re dropping trivia about Legion giving Rimmer a hard light body that’s of no relevance to this series.

[International Debris]

BitR Part 2

This is the first time I’ve watched BitR in episodic form since my first watch of the DVDs. 

Resson – smeg knows. Fuck off. I hate that ‘70s sci-fi font so much. All part of the horribly garish style of VIII.

Oh God the “ok I’ll do it” bit is in the recap. 

The salute is sort of a good silly joke, one that doesn’t belong in Red Dwarf, but I get the humour.

Did Rimmer have that muffin in his pocket?! 

The captain of a mining ship has a drawer full of psychotropically active gum envelopes in a drawer. Right.

Black tie, fuck off. 

That scene does not require applause. 

Why is everybody treating Kryten as if he’s human and not a robot from the future?! “Here’s technology we’ve never seen before, let’s give it a blood pressure test.” 

Oh God, the ‘no penis = woman’ stuff. Fuck off fuck off fuck off. 

“Mr. Lister when he’s forced to eat fruit” – like, say, the last strawberry in the universe. 

“Handed him a spoon” – the fat gags begin. 

“Movers and shakers” – one of the worst jokes in the whole of Red Dwarf.

Rimmer’s dad had an alibi for his sperm on night of conception. That’s very prescient. 

Hold on, they’re in the mind scan by this point, right? They’ve all licked envelopes. This will be relevant later. 

Kryten can pull a gun on people but not say no to them. 

Lift. Rapey scene number 1. Also the music here, Jesus. Bring back Howard Goodall. 

Data Doctor. Horrible performance, and utter nonsense given that KRYTEN IS FROM THE FUTURE. Why are emotions not on the list shown as being fixed? 

It’s a shame that David Ross didn’t do the voice of rebooted Kryten, but I do like the idea that Lister repairing him is what gave him the accent.

I see “black tie” means “normal uniform with a fancier jacket”. 

lol the old woman and fat woman fancy Rimmer. 

I love the way there’s not even at attempt to explain where Cat is and where he’s been. The disguise under his normal costume is recycled from Stasis Leak, of course. 

Dibbley family, fuck fuck fuck off. 

Rape scene number 2: this time it’s Rimmer getting raped! 

“Computer programmers”. lol geeks. 

God this really just is a series of random scenes at this point. 

Rimmer malletting his penis. Great. 

Reservoir Dogs. What the fuck is going on?! Fucking hell this is terrible. And the skutters have dressed up as Dibbleys. Wonderful writing here, a comedy masterclass. 

Good gags:

The special glove. 

We all huddle together so it looks like we know what we’re doing. 

Less reliable than a plumber’s estimate. (The first good more than/less than gag since VII, maybe)

[International Debris]

That used to trip me up back in the day, but it’s just saying they met her after they lost trace of Red Dwarf and it went inside Starbug (pre Out of Time). 

Nah, she says it’s after the nanos led them back to Red Dwarf “and rebooted Holly”. It’s nonsense. 

BitR Part 3

Christ, filler central here. 

Gideon’s Bible is so, so awful. 

Apparently it’s impossible to escape. Glad that won’t come back to contradicted in two episodes time.

Xtended has two benefits: it’s shorter, and it removes Dennis the Doughnut Boy. The retconning of Hollister away from being a competent captain fucked me at the time and it still does now. Fucking hell this scene goes on for ages. 

Seven minutes in and the episode is finally beginning! 

“Smooth with a capital smoo” feels like a desperate attempt at returning Cat to his earlier version and is so fucking awkward. 

The Blue Midget dance has been discussed to death, but needless to say it’s the worst single scene in the show’s history. Unfunny, nonsensical, time consuming, badly composited and ugly as fuck. Why does it get a round of applause? 

I love the way Rimmer says “jazz fan” as if it’s a perversion. 

Rimmer editing the conversation is a really good idea that leads to some great jokes. 

Screen saver. I don’t hate this bit but it’s just totally unnecessary. Amazing how much time was spent on pointless filler. 

“Press it”. Press what? It’s a bottle. 

Kochanski’s reaction to returning to normal after fancying Rimmer is pretty good. 

Holly’s moon impression. I’m glad Doug brought him back for a good reason. 

lol hairdressers. 

“Officers aren’t men of honour, they’re headcases” is a good line, deserves a response. 

Five buttons, I remember this bit being another where I just felt the whole thing was ‘off’ on first watch. Rimmer has become a cartoon character. 

Once they escape from Red Dwarf it feels like the new format. I was so happy, thinking the rest of the series would be them in Blue Midget, looking for the nanobots and trying to survive, maybe hiding from the Red Dwarf crew. 

Oh fucking hell the theory of relativity stuff. This is truly appalling. Rimmer knew what it meant back in Future Echoes. 

Holly creating new nanobots to keep Lister sane is utter nonsense. As is the conehead Holly. And the totally calm response to having been resurrected three million years after their death. And a species that hasn’t evolved yet and a robot from the future being eligible for prison sentences by the JMC. And Holly going to prison. As does two years in the brig for this, but 18 months in stasis for breaking quarantine rules by bringing a cat on board. 

Rimmer having the viruses, how does that make it reality WHEN HE HAD THEM IN THE TRIAL?! 

Rape scene number 3: Rimmer gets it again! 

Good gags:

The line “since when were you interested in a trouser press?”

You defended yourself. 

Everything we say is being- bananas.

I’m going to cut off both of his b- a blunt knife. 

He got that?!

Only poor people say that. 

Come back Mr. Sucks.

[Dave]

I watched BitR pt.1 for the first time in many years and somehow it wasn’t as bad as I was expecting.

Maybe knowing the VIII tone by now means it wasn’t as jarring, but there were a few good gags in there as well as a slight if genuine sense of recapturing the Lister-Rimmer dynamic from the first series.

The trouble is it’s all alongside other naff gags and lots of continuity/explanation bollocks that sucks the life out of it and makes it feel like not much actually happens for quite long periods.

And then there’s the tendency to over-explain the gags or continue them well past the point where they end up being funny.

(Kryten with the psychiatrist is a case in point – it’s actually a pretty funny scene when it’s Kryten answering things factually in deadpan mode, but once he starts being genuinely odd and weird it suddenly feels like an unfunny drawn-out sketch.)

Also, the music really is bizarre and all over the place. The scene where Chen and Selby show up is bad enough, but then the one where Rimmer recovers the viruses is even worse. It’s like that Big Train sketch with the guys repeatedly editing the footage to Status Quo.

[International Debris]

Cassandra

Ah yes, it’s the episode people wrongly think is actually good. 

The canaries are such a stupid idea. Not only is the entire setup totally wrong for the initial trundling up and down the solar system doing some mining setting for the show, but it’s Doug having his cake and eating it: a desperate attempt to have a III-VI format while completely changing the entire format of the show at the same time. Despite VIII’s shit writing and plotting, there’s still potential in the prison scenario, yet as soon as it’s here, he’s trying to write a way out of it. 

Dog joke totally ruined by overexplanation. 

Rimmer suggesting prison would be easy if he could suck his mum’s tits whenever he liked. 

In VII, Lister understands science so complex it breaks cameras, and knows how to remove parts of Kryten’s brain, why is he so dumbed down here that he thinks a canary could do some mining? 

Fucking ocean moon. Why is everyone so calm about being in deep space?! 

“I’ve seen custard factories that aren’t as yellow as you are.” Cut to everyone wearing yellow. 

I love the way the prison is full of people like Killcrazy, and is deemed appropriate punishment for crimes like stealing confidential files. 

Cassandra knowing the future of the conversation is a reasonably funny scene. Nice to have a good sci-fi idea used for comedy again. 

Future echoes. Hanging a lampshade on the repeated idea and continuing Doug’s thing for regularly referencing the past. 

“Oh look, here’s Mr. Knot” is basically Kryten suggesting they kill him. 

God, the extra large names on Rimmer and Knot’s outfits. The garish ugliness of the costumes and fonts made even worse. 

Cat hitting Lister around the head is pretty much the last good bit until the end. Rimmer falling down the hole doesn’t make any sense given that he had people in front of and behind him. 

Not even Rimmer would be happy to die just to get a shag. 

The whole seduction concept is so hideously horrible it’s hard to watch. 

Kochanski just stands there in the water and doesn’t think about, I dunno, moving out of it? 

Why does Lister take the harpoon gun?! 

Rape scene five. Great. 

“Kryten figured it out.” Still makes me really angry. There’s absolutely nothing whatsoever to suggest any of that even hinted at before they left the ship. Terrible lazy writing. 

I love the way the bedroom scene closes on an attempt to bring some warmth between them and some sympathy for Rimmer, a couple of minutes after he suggested using Kochanski as a human shield. 

Very good end scene. Hard to deny. 

Good gags:

Become a dog. 

Ohhhh Listy.

I’ve signed you up too. 

Killcrazy hitting the door frame. 

So long as the teeth are in your mouth at the time, sir. 

I read it on this mission directive here. 

Who will be dead in 20 minutes. 

With the ignorance he’s got, that makes him one of the most powerful men who’s ever lived. 

But have you seen this? 

Cat hitting Lister with the pole. 

Oh but Cassandra promised. 

Cassandra’s death. 

Better than I remember, the stuff with all the regulars is mostly solid, and there are quite a few top notch jokes. The prison stuff and Rimmer/Kochanski scene are awful though. That middle section is probably better than anything in VII, so I get why it’s as ‘popular’ as it is, but the shit stuff is still terrible and drags it right back down again. 

[Unrumble]

Back in the Red is the only Xtended episode that is actually tempting to me, on account of it actually being shorter.
Overall I prefer not to watch all of Back in the Red in one sitting, though.

[Warbodog]

Back in the Red part 2

Dogshit. Mac MacDonald is the only good thing about it, before he succumbs to the rot in later episodes.

Also, the music really is bizarre and all over the place. The scene where Chen and Selby show up is bad enough, but then the one where Rimmer recovers the viruses is even worse.

It came across as some kind of Peter and the Wolfesque “Rimmer’s theme.” Or like a really shit “I Am the Doctor.”

Nah, she says it’s after the nanos led them back to Red Dwarf “and rebooted Holly”. It’s nonsense. 

You’re probably right. It was the explanation I came up with to cope at 13.

[desbug]

Cassandra is the good episode in comparison to the others… at least the antagonist is a good concept that could have been fun without all the canaries and the Rimmer / Kochanski bits…

[Jenuall]

BitR I

This really is shit isn’t it? I remember having some hopes for VIII going into it. Thinking “surely it can only go up from VII…” what a fool young me was!

“Uh guys…” the shrinking ship is such a stupid concept that Doug tries to get away with here. Why the hell would the nano’s have made a version of the ship so many times bigger than the original? How would they have even had enough base material to do that in the first place? Why when spotting that it was clearly too big did Cat not think – hang on a minute, we had better stop and have a think about this? This is the guy who was crying out at every swirly thing they saw previously but is now content to just fly into a giant ship and then make a beeline for an opportunity to get crushed to death inside it.

The cockpit scene material is truly woeful, feels like it goes on for an absolute age. And who the hell did they have in the audience for this? These people are whooping at some of the cringiest lines since Craig Charles last attempt at stand up. I guess some people turning up might have been so excited at getting to see Dwarf actually being filmed live again that you can forgive some over zealous reactions, but it’s so jarring watching this material get bigger laughs than so much of the bubble era seemed to.

“This is Chen, he works in the kitchen” … so what the hell is he doing in the cargo bay wearing a hazmat suit?! It is momentarily fun to see some faces who haven’t been on screen for 10 years at this point, but it wears thin incredibly quickly. As a general comment though Mac is a fantastic performer, despite how little good material he gets from Doug he still tries to wring as much out of it as possible!

The recreation of the bunkroom is crap, always annoys me how wrong it is. They could at least try to shoot it the same to help with the conceit, but no we get all sorts of weird framing on things that highlights just how off the whole thing is. And this is with Ed directing as well! The uniforms being generic beige crap doesn’t help either.

Rimmer saying “millado” does not constitute him being back to “like he used to be” – far from it, this version of the character has about as much depth as a puddle compared to the OG Arnie.

Psychiatrist scene does have some strong moments, “Now, that’s in the future isn’t it?” is well performed and gets a laugh from me, but as others have said it’s yet another setup that LONG overstays its welcome and by the end you’re begging for a transition.

Everything with Cat in medical bay is pure trash, an insult to any element of reality and internal consistency of tone and content that the show once had. Again, Mac’s reactions to a couple of things are the only salvageable element.

Oh look it’s the positive viruses that we keep lying around all the time, I’m sure after however long not being stored in that sealed case Kryten found them in that they’ll still be working… Especially if you just drink it like a fucking moron and not inject it properly… somebody please, shoot me in the head!

“Sickbags on standby”… oh fuck off.

And to think there’s more of this (and arguably worse!) to come…

Things I like:

– the sound effect for Holly going on/off screen is the same as it was back in the day (not sure if this was the case in Nanarchy?)

– Kryten’s costume is better than VII… but that’s not a high bar to cross

[Flap Jack]

– Kryten’s costume is better than VII… but that’s not a high bar to cross

A bit surprising to hear this. I can see why the Series VIII costume might be considered an improvement if you strongly took against the silver, but for me the Series VIII Kryten suit has this very “slightly glittery plastic” effect that just looks so, so cheap. When looking at it, I find my attention more easily drawn to the joints too, which now seem to be more obviously fabric.

The mask looks worse to me too, though I’m not sure if that’s due to the overall shape or the lack of the solid lines at the edges.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

It’s surprising how very similar those costumes are too.

I think the mask is better in VIII whatever you may think of the suit itself

Cassandra *is* the good episode. It may still but crap in terms of Red Dwarf but it’s the closest VIII gets to doing Red Dwarf.

I know the idea of the Canaries kinda flies in the face of a mining ship, but it does make some sense if the ship is going up and down the galaxy rather than just the solar system (which is something I’ve repeated bemoaned about Doug’s renewed vision of Red Dwarf) that you’d have a team to go do some planet exploration along the way.  Especially if you’re scoping out mining planets.  And canaries were used to send down mines.  So at least there is a connection.  Maybe originally they didn’t have guns, but have been retrofitted in the wake of finding themselves 3million years into deep space.

I think the Starbug scene is probably one of th best scenes of VIII, even if it does go on a tad too long.  Holly’s interruption is quite funny but a bit too much given all else that’s happening. And the gag itself is shit.  The ratarsed gag those I absolutely love.

Agree the psychiatrist scene goes on a bit too.  Which begs the question if Doug was running over so much he went into a third episode that was then padded, why he couldn’t have trimmed out the fat in the first two episodes.

[Stilianides]

Which begs the question if Doug was running over so much he went into a third episode that was then padded, why he couldn’t have trimmed out the fat in the first two episodes.

I might be misremembering, but wasn’t the third episode simply due to a lack of money? They didn’t have enough cash left to film an entirely new story, so they opted to stretch out the opener.

It’s a shame that they didn’t make a bottle episode in Series VIII, as simply having Rimmer and Lister sitting in their cell for 30 minutes (as Clement and Le Frenais had Fletcher and Godber do in Porridge) would have been preferable to many of the zany antics.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

It’s a shame that they didn’t make a bottle episode in Series VIII, as simply having Rimmer and Lister sitting in their cell for 30 minutes (as Clement and Le Frenais had Fletcher and Godber do in Porridge) would have been preferable to many of the zany antics.

This is my main frustration with VIII.  They put them in this situation and then never really use it.  They could have had an episode told from the perspective of three different cells whilst they’re all locked in.  The closest we get to “their in prison and this is a prison based story” is Krytie TV.

[Flap Jack]

Back in the Red Part I – Yep, it’s bad alright. Crap premise, crap gags, crap characterisation. Crap all round. I was prepared for the possibility that Series VIII could have been a refreshing change of pace after the heaviness of VII, but unfortunately I think that might only apply if you’re sleep deprived.

– I can’t think of a worse possible way to open the series than the way they did, with that overlong and tedious bunkroom/cell scene. If you’re a fan who’s excited about the return of Rimmer and misses the banter between Lister and Rimmer, seeing a bunkroom scene where Lister acts like an unfunny, obnoxious prick for 5 minutes while Rimmer sits there in frustrated silence should kill all your excitement dead. In a way, this scene perfectly represents the series. Lister is Series VIII, and Rimmer is the viewer.

– The pseudo observational bit about Argyle Somerfield is especially weak material to put up front. Lister saying “oh, if she likes older men, imagine if she met a multiple millennia-old preserved corpse!” barely qualifies as a joke. Might as well have been “Oh, she says she likes her beer cold? Imagine how much she’d like a beer that was completely frozen, hahaha”.

– I think it’s fair to assume that Lister’s tryst with Yvonne McGruder is about as real as his one with Caroline Carmen.

– I know expecting the characters to be dressed the same as they were at the end of Nanarchy for the scene that directly follows on from it is perhaps too much, but given that Kochanski rather iconically wore entirely bright red outfits for pretty much the whole of Series VII, could they not at least have found her a red T-shirt to wear or something?

– The cockpit scene actually has a couple of OK moments (“Hey, look at my body!” was pretty good, and “go to brown alert” was decent), but given they had no reason at all to not just land in the relatively massive landing bay, it all just feels like a waste of time. After the bunkroom scene, I just want them to get on with it already. Also, both “ratarsed” and “Nostrilomo” are bad (you’re not even meant to make noises in charades… ).

– Were the resurrected crew all huge to begin with as well, or did they also experience the ship shrinking around them? Either way, everyone on board should have known something was up straight away, because we can see the ship shrinking back to normal wasn’t happening uniformly.

– Weird that they say Petersen “couldn’t make it”. Why would this be an appointment for him? Petersen isn’t joined to Selby and Chen at the hips, and he’s a catering officer.

– Giving the nanobots the power to raise the dead, especially people who died 3 million years ago, was way too much. Rimmer mocked the idea of the human race curing death in the 3 million year interim in Future Echoes, but apparently not only did they do that, they only took a couple hundred years to do it, and by then the tech was so everyday they were giving it to sanitation droids. Turns out Kryten could have saved the Nova 5 crew, but just didn’t for some reason. (I know it’ll later be revealed that the nanobots who resurrected the crew were ones created by Holly and not Kryten’s ones, but the implications are pretty much the same.)

– Between the retcon about the nanobots and the revelation they had the positive viruses on Starbug, the crew’s hypothetical power level during the latter half of Nanarchy reaches an even more mind-blowing height. To recap, during that time, they could:

– – Travel anywhere in the universe and at any point in the past or future instantaneously.

– – Turn any substance into any other substance, including bringing dead people back to life.

– – Ensure that anything they try would have a positive outcome.

– Why didn’t the nanobots also resurrect the thousands of generations of cats that died on board Red Dwarf? The implicit answer from later is that they weren’t actually resurrecting indiscriminately, they were acting on Holly’s orders to resurrect the crew (which could be one explanation for why they don’t resurrect Kochanski Prime), BUT they clearly did resurrect multiple rats, so why not cats too?

– There’s embarrassingly little Kochanski in this episode. She has the cockpit scene and the corridor discussion with Kryten about the nanobots and that’s it. Cat and Kryten both get scenes where they’re questioned/examined by the resurrected crew, so why not Kochanski?

– I’m actually fine with the explanation about how Red Dwarf changed shape (even if I don’t like the design), but “turns out there was secretly a massive prison complex on the ship this entire time” is taking the cake. It would have been more believable if it was a straight retcon, that everyone knew about the prison but it just hadn’t come up before, than it is with them saying it was a secret. Also, “tattoos and/or piercings = scary” is too much of a cliche. I bet Nigel legitimately is nice.

– Really strange to try and establish now that the nanos had the crew’s best interests at heart, when they were so clearly out for themselves. How many times did they almost die during Series 6 and 7??? And how would the nanobots have known that Legion even existed, let alone that he would give Rimmer a hard-light body?

– It’s incredibly frustrating how quickly Lister jumps to trying to escape, without waiting for his opportunity to explain himself first. Especially as we know that Hollister and the other higher-ups know about them being 3 million years away from Earth and the ship changing shape and all that.

– Lister says that he only “used to” be immature to Rimmer, which would have played better if we hadn’t already seen the opening bunkroom scene, where he was just as if not more immature than he’s ever been.

– Plenty of gags get over-explained, but there are a few that could use extra explanation, if anything. The previously mentioned “heart without a body” gag (which I guess is just that the heart is panicking about not having a body?), and also the Lister / Rimmer exchange, “Maybe I should take the Fifth.” / “The Fifth? If I were you, I’d take the Sixth, Seventh and Eighth, too.” – The hell does that mean?

– Agreed that the Kryten / McLaren scene starts off well. But as soon as Kryten starts giving uncharacteristically silly answers, like where he describes the nanobots, it just becomes annoying.

– Odd that a human psychiatrist would be the one to assess a robot, and not, y’know, an engineer? And when McLaren recommends a factory reset, does he even know that anyone on board knows how to do that? Kryten is future technology from Red Dwarf’s perspective after all.

– One especially weird element of the Kryten psychiatry scene that I don’t often see discussed: Kryten speaks at length about how the key aspect of Lister teaching him to break his programming was about him developing human emotions, but… no it wasn’t??? It was about teaching him very specific human drives and capabilties, like lying,  self-preservation, and rejection of authority. Kryten isn’t Data (regardless of what James O’Brien may say). He’s always been able to express joy, sadness, anger etc. If mechanoids couldn’t feel emotions, then there would be no need to invent the concept of silicon heaven. So yeah, this plot point is utter horseshit. Pointless horseshit too – Kryten being a free agent and somewhat unpredictable would surely already be enough justification for The Man ™ to factory reset him.

– It’s funny just how many situations in Series VI and VII would have been made trivial if they had used the luck virus. Most recently, how low they rated their chances of finding the nanobots, and then before that, their incredibly risky operation to push Epideme into Lister’s left arm, and I could go on. Though I guess we should be grateful that Lister never tried to use the sexual magnetism virus in Series VII.

– The library music is really bad. It doesn’t fit at all.

– I completely forgot that this episode has applause over the credits. Of all the episodes to get that…

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I was prepared for the possibility that Series VIII could have been a refreshing change of pace after the heaviness of VII, but unfortunately I think that might only apply if you’re sleep deprived.

I absolutely acknowledge this could well have been the case.  Assuming it’s a ref to my comment on the last thread.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I know expecting the characters to be dressed the same as they were at the end of Nanarchy for the scene that directly follows on from it is perhaps too much,

Given that Cat wears the same coat through to the end of VIII they have absolutely made the effort to be canonical with the costumes. Choosing to suddenly redress Kochanski feels really weird considering it only needs to be for a single scene. Then once they’re arrested she can change into literally anything they want her to wear.

[Flap Jack]

I absolutely acknowledge this could well have been the case.  Assuming it’s a ref to my comment on the last thread.

Indeed. It was an interesting perspective, so I still had it on my mind when I put on the episode today.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I still think VIII is whack, I just think it’s less whack and whack for different reasons to VII.

[cwickham]

– I completely forgot that this episode has applause over the credits. Of all the episodes to get that…

And since the studio audience saw the original hour-long version, the applause is presumably entirely fake?

[Warbodog]

Back in the Red part 3

Poll consensus has this as the worst of the trilogy, but I found more to enjoy than in part 2. There were more funny bits and it didn’t have that same sense of staring into the abyss. The dance is less painful than the Dibbleys for me.

Aside from that big set piece, the main impression I had was filler. I appreciated VII bringing back the slower pace of the early years (in theory more than practice), but what should have been an exciting cyberpunk breakout action finale kept grinding to a halt.

– It’s unnecessary after the first one, but I quite liked opening on another prison flashforward. Not really any good, but a more relaxing couple of minutes than stretching out the plot would have been. There’s high praise.

– I was so used to recaps in other shows that I somehow didn’t used to notice this one being so padded, let alone repetitive:

– Look, AR is some excuse for the stupid shit that happens across these latter two parts, if not creatively.

– I remember the two weeks of wondering what the claymation-looking bit in the opening titles was going to be. I had the idea that the shot of Kochanski’s arousal for Rimmer would be her astonished reaction to meeting her resurrected counterpart, don’t know why.

– The scene where they invite Rimmer to come with them has a happy child’s “yaaaaay!” over the top in my memory. It could have been a sibling, but it was probably me.

– “You’ll wake up in the morning and want to leap out of bed” is the silly joke that’s stayed with me the most. Cat’s cyanide gag was funny too.

– Oh yeah, I forgot Holly created the… what’s he talking about? This is the first time I’ve ever watched Nanarchy and Back in the Red back-to-back, and Kochanski’s “best guess” about Lister’s bodybuilder bod in the earlier episode worked fine as the explanation here. The nanos wanted to make amends by giving them a better ship than they’d had before and resurrecting the crew. Why did Holly and a separate set of nanos need to be involved? Because otherwise we wouldn’t have “I’ve buggered this up a bit, haven’t I?”, I suppose.

– The revelation of how early Rimmer was put under was another surprise that doesn’t seem right. It at least means the captain’s dinner frolics didn’t happen. You know, the ones that were clipped in Hollister’s actual log. You’re a total bloody shambles!

[Flap Jack]

I had the idea that the shot of Kochanski’s arousal for Rimmer would be
her astonished reaction to meeting her resurrected counterpart, don’t
know why.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

– Weird that they say Petersen “couldn’t make it”. Why would this be an appointment for him? Petersen isn’t joined to Selby and Chen at the hips, and he’s a catering officer. 

Well, it makes no less sense than Selby and Chen being there. Maybe they needed some people quick and catering is nearby.

[Flap Jack]

Well, it makes no less sense than Selby and Chen being there. Maybe they needed some people quick and catering is nearby.

Fair, I guess all 3 of them were together in the catering area, and they heard the crash and decided to go together and check it out, but Petersen was too drunk to move. It’s just phrased weirdly.

[Dave]

After finding BitR pt.1 to be better than I expected, part two is somehow even worse than I remembered.

The overall tone dials up the pantomime stupidity/lack of logic so far that it’s hard to care about the nonsensical story at all any more, and so many individual bits have a “what were they thinking?” feel to them: the repetitive sequel magnetism bits (complete with some hilarity at how awful it would be for ugly women to find you attractive, and Lister expressing dismay at not being able to shag Kochanski against her will), Kryten holding people at gunpoint in a toilet, the Dibbley family, the Data Doctor, “ambivalence” (someone obviously decided at some point that they could pad out BitR with a shitload of Bobby gurning) and dick-malleting are some of the worst offenders. Imagine Chris deciding to return to the show after having left during VII due to the lack of decent characterful writing for Rimmer, and then reading this script.

There are occasionally glimpses of something better here – Rimmer using Lister’s knowledge to gain favour with Hollister isn’t a bad plot, and Mac does pretty well in all his scenes (largely as he seems to be playing it a bit more straight than everyone else). Even the silly long Rimmer salute is bearable… for a while, anyway. And Kryten’s brief acting of his different emotions during deletion raised a laugh from me.

But they’re occasional nuggets of enjoyment in what feels like a sea of shit.

Roll on part 3.

[Stilianides]

Back in the Red 2

This is a step down from the first episode and the opening couple of minutes are wasted due to the recap.

The Rimmer/Hollister scene does feature the amusing special glove gag, but everything about this episode is turned up to 11 from the beginning. The salute does work for me, to some extent, if I allow myself to accept that Dwarf at this point was an incredibly broad sitcom. 

Two things that definitely don’t work are the “steak, pie, peas and chips” joke and “You’re going to supper with some removal men…” Both painful and it might have been better if Doug had followed the ‘Better to have no joke than a bad joke’ policy.

There is a distinct lack of sci-fi and it doesn’t help that one of the only examples of it is the reused positive viruses idea. They should have been left in the past along with “Spin my nipple nuts…” and acronym jokes.

There are obvious issues with the way that the sexual magnetism virus is used, but I have a problem with it comedically as much as anything. If Rimmer had been the only person to use it, and he’d been thwarted just before getting lucky, I could understand it. Not that I’m saying it would have been a good idea, but better than having the normally sex-starved Rimmer being intimate with several female crew members with the punchline being that the last of them doesn’t look like a supermodel.

The luck virus cancelling out the sexual magnetism doesn’t really make any sense and the Lister/Kochanski scene should probably have been omitted.

As should the Data Doctor, and there is a distinct lack of quality control which has continued throughout Doug’s Dwarf imo.

The Cat suggesting the Dibbley disguise is completely out of character – especially a few moments after refusing to wear a regular disguise – and is a desperate attempt at fan service.

When Rimmer starts hammering his own love spuds, you know that Doug is trying anything in desperation.

In spite of all of that, I still prefer it to VII…

[Ian Symes]

Jesus, I’ve not even watched the episodes recently but just reading the comments is making me angry about Series VIII again.

[Unrumble]

I know expecting the characters to be dressed the same as they were at the end of Nanarchy for the scene that directly follows on from it is perhaps too much, but given that Kochanski rather iconically wore entirely bright red outfits for pretty much the whole of Series VII, could they not at least have found her a red T-shirt to wear or something?

The completely different hair and outfit do seem rather careless, continuity-wise.

Less egregious, The Cat seems to be wearing twice as much, or perhaps just different make-up. Would probably go by unnoticed if they didn’t include that shot of him from the end of Nanarchy a few seconds before. Suppose lighting/lack of film effect could be partly to blame.

[Dave]

BitR pt.3 is not quite as awful as BitR pt.2, but that’s probably the nicest thing I can say about it.

The Blue Midget Dance is one of the biggest “what the fuck am I watching?” moments the show has ever had (and not in a good way), the plot eats itself to the point where it becomes incomprehensible (so Rimmer has been in AR all this time? And Holly created new nanobots? And Holly’s in AR too? Does that even make sense?) and there’s more sexual magnetism hi-jinks – including ending on a great gag about Rimmer getting gang-raped in prison. I wonder what Rob thought when he watched this.

And yet… for that one scene where they’re trying to convince Rimmer to join them and run away, the show briefly feels like Red Dwarf again. The interplay, the gags, the character dynamic – there’s a hint of the old magic there. And even watching it today, knowing how this episode ends, I find myself willing that scenario to happen, to avoid what I know is to come in the rest of VIII.

If that had happened, and they had basically reset to a traditional status quo at this point, I think I could have better accepted BitR as a one-off hour-long special, and it might even retain some novelty through being The One Where The Crew Comes Back.

But as it is, it’s a padded, lumpy, borderline-offensive mess of a three-parter that makes little sense and – crucially – is only occasionally funny. And I feel like this might be the last time I ever watch it.

[cwickham]

The greatest legacy of “Back in the Red” is all 200+ “Maths in the Red” posts. Discuss.

[Warbodog]

The greatest legacy of “Back in the Red” is all 200+ “Maths in the Red” posts. Discuss.

Reading ‘Back in the Red’ always makes me think of ‘CACK IN THE BED’ etc etc etc etc, probably more than any other ruined title, so that’s something.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Well, it makes no less sense than Selby and Chen being there. Maybe they needed some people quick and catering is nearby.
Fair, I guess all 3 of them were together in the catering area, and they heard the crash and decided to go together and check it out, but Petersen was too drunk to move. It’s just phrased weirdly.

Selby and Chen are clearly there as emergency response … they’re carrying fire hose (yes that’s the branch/nozzle of a hose) and have gas masks.

Do we ever find out/know what Selby and Chen’s jobs are? They don’t have to be catering just because Petersen is.

But regardless, it would make sense for a ship of 169/1,169 that the emergency teams are people with other jobs trained to do fire fighting if needed.  Kinda like a retained service in a smaller town or village.

As for Petersen being drunk.  Isn’t it very very cruel of the nanobots to resurrecting him pissed?

[Dave]

Do we ever find out/know what Selby and Chen’s jobs are? They don’t have to be catering just because Petersen is.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Ok but what about Selby?

[Dave]

Not sure we ever know for sure in the TV version. It’s probably mentioned in the novels somewhere. 

[Unrumble]

People have already mentioned the bizarrity of Kryten being treated like a person, and classified as a woman, and I’ve just watched the medical scene in pt II, think I always acknowledged the idea of an ‘undressed’ Kryten as silly, but this time it was offensively fucking dumb. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Not only should they just turn Kryten and Holly off, but shouldn’t Cat at the very least be in quarantine? To the resurrected crew he is basically an alien. And if they do believe he is an evolved cat, by their very own standards he should be cut up and have tests run on him.

[Flap Jack]

Back in the Red Part II – In one way this is an improvement on Part I because it actually gets on with things straight away, but in another, more accurate way it’s worse because the stuff it’s getting on with is awful. Somehow the gags are even less funny, the plot has become even more nonsensical, and the characterisation has become even more offensive. Not much more to say, really.

lol jk, there’s tons more to say.

– So in the opening scene with Rimmer in Hollister’s office, Rimmer is acting suspiciously knowledgeable, and Hollister decides to immediately drug him and hook him up to AR, before Lister and the others have even started their trial. Absolutely deranged. At least with the others they gave a vague kind of consent. When the hell did Rimmer consent to this?

– Absolutely hate the idea of “naked” Kryten. It isn’t anywhere near funny enough to justify how little sense it makes.

– And if that wasn’t bad enough, Kryten gets subjected to a bunch of human medical tests (why? They already know he’s a robot.) and gets designated as a woman (WHY? THEY ALREADY KNOW HE’S A ROBOT). It’s especially dystopian that hundreds of years in the future, the Space Corps would hold such a regressive, transphobic policy. Yes, I’m sure it’s very important for the Space Corps to segregate its (prison only?) population by genitals “to prevent gender ambiguity”. I’ve heard it all in The Guardian.

– Pretty messed up that Kochanski reacts to Kryten being systematically misgendered with “oh, so now you’re a woman you’ll be behaving differently”. He hasn’t become a woman, were you even listening?

– Kryten says he’ll only be classified as a woman until he gets his factory reset, which raises even further questions. Why is he counted as human with his emotions, but as a robot without them? Why bother going through with any of these if it’ll all be pointless by tomorrow?

– Actually, that last point is largely irrelevant, because the real question is: why would they make all these plans to factory reset Kryten, when they don’t plan to actually do it? Because the factory reset bollocks doesn’t really happen, it’s all in the simulation, so what was the point of all that if they were just going to leave him as he is and try/jail him as a (female) human?

– The four of them refuse defence assistance, and I really can’t fathom why. A defence assistance person maybe could have pointed out the holes in JMC’s case against them, or have pointed out that Cat and Kryten shouldn’t be beholden to their rules. At the very least they could have raised an objection when they were unknowingly made to take hallucinogenic drugs without their knowledge and presumably keeled over right there in the courtroom. (By the by, “I consent to take drugs needed for the mind scan” in no fucking way means “I consent to be tricked into taking the drugs and put on trial without being made aware that’s what’s happening”, Jesus Christ, Hollister).

– It already seemed idiotic that Lister would try to escape without even attempting to make his case in Part I, but here he continues with the plan despite being fully aware that he’s literally going to have his mind read. Obviously he intended to escape before the mind scan was due to begin, but surely he would realise that being mind-scanned would override the need to escape, find the nanobots etc. at all?

– How do psychotropic drugs even work on Kryten? How are they even needed? He’s a robot, just plug him into the machine.

– Rimmer explains the positive viruses to Lister, even though he knows that Lister already knows what they are.

– I nominate the “movers and shakers” gag for worst dialogue of the episode. (Although Kryten’s “I’m back and I’m bad” and the lines that lead up to it are strong runners up.)

– Rimmer using the sexual magnetism virus is extremely fucked up, but, and I can’t quite believe I’m about to say this, in his defence he may not have properly understood its true nature. He could have just thought that it enhanced his natural attractiveness a bit, like wearing a really nice cologne or something, and not that it was a magical lust potion. Considering that his first use of it was with Yvonne McGruder, who he already knows is into him (and Doug certainly prefers the idea that she legitimately fancies him, as in Last Human), and he takes it again before the supper just because he wants to be perceived as more charismatic (and clearly didn’t expect to shag anyone during it), it makes sense. Obviously this doesn’t exactly absolve him of being a rapist because he doesn’t reject the advances of the officers at the supper who are clearly entranced, but it’s… slightly not as bad.

– Another interesting point about the sexual magnetism virus: literally every instance of a character sexually attacking someone because they’ve taken the virus didn’t happen, it was all in the simulation. (The end of Part III implies it’s about to happen, but we don’t see it.) So, small mercy, Rimmer isn’t actually a rapist, he just… tried to be one in a dream. Sigh. Yeah.

– The whole thread about Kryten not being able to say no to the factory reset doesn’t actually make sense. They gave him a free choice to accept or reject, it wasn’t an order. So he should have had no problem at all in saying no.

– Oh no, Kryten has become an emotionless automaton! You know, like how David Ross’s Kryten wasn’t. (Also, the factory reset is especially weird in the context of him being in a simulation. I guess he just acted like he didn’t have emotions or his memory because he thought he shouldn’t have them?)

– Lister using the sexual magnetism virus is pure character assassination. Like with Rimmer, perhaps he didn’t understand just how powerful it was, but the fact that he didn’t push Kochanski away when she went crazy on him – and the fact that he acted disappointed when it stopped working (!) – condemns him.

– People say that it doesn’t make sense for the luck virus to counteract the sexual magnetism virus, but I don’t know, maybe it would in fact be good luck to be prevented from raping a close friend. Just a thought. (Although it could also just be that the SM virus ran out because it was such small quantity.) But I guess the viruses don’t need to make sense anyway, because none of this is really happening, hmm.

– The scene is generally awful, but I will say that Kochanski’s reaction to Lister taking the SM virus is the closest the concept ever gets to being funny, just because of how much of a sudden escalation it is from the casual “hey, you look really nice” remarks.

– Strange choice to have Rimmer repeat his post sexual magnetism dosing corridor walk from Part I.

– Cat suggesting the Dibbley disguises is the most out of character he’s ever been before or since, and I’m including the fake Cat from the Rimmer Experience in that. Still, he didn’t try to rape anyone in this episode, so that’s nice.

– How would the senile version of Holly make a ship announcement as a distraction without being found out? Another one for “it’s a simulation, it doesn’t need to make sense” is it?

– Lister seems to get a lot of mileage out of that speck of luck virus he ingests, but I suppose the idea is that it might not be doing anything past his initial cell escape, and he just deludes himself it’s the luck virus and not the good fortune that comes with being the protagonist in a fictional story.

– My mind boggles at virtual Hollister telling Rimmer about the psychotropic AR trial. What’s the benefit of making this simulation so complicated, with the 2 levels? Wouldn’t it make more sense to have Rimmer and the others all in the exact same simulation, so on top of already seeing his guilt for the confidential file access, you can see whether he would have aided the escape? And it isn’t just that there are 2 different scenarios either – it started as one scenario because Rimmer and Lister spoke in his cell after both of them had started the simulation, but then at some point it branched off, and in Rimmer’s version the others are all strapped into machines. It’s just so goddamn convoluted.

– Does it qualify as a clue to the “Rimmer’s also in the simulation” twist that Lister’s escape starts immediately after he last sees Rimmer, with no obvious break where he could have been grabbed? Maybe we’re meant to think that he did start to escape in reality, but they caught him and put him into AR after he got out of his cell.

– I can’t believe it took me until now to realise that “the story is actually a hallucination, and the audience don’t learn that it’s not real straight away” is a commonality between all episodes which start “Back … ” (note the space) and not just To Reality and To Earth. For shame.

—

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Do we ever find out/know what Selby and Chen’s jobs are?

Chen is literally stated to work in the kitchen moments before.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Not only should they just turn Kryten and Holly off, but shouldn’t Cat at the very least be in quarantine? To the resurrected crew he is basically an alien. And if they do believe he is an evolved cat, by their very own standards he should be cut up and have tests run on him.

Would they put him back together when they’re done with him?

[Rudolph]

Choosing to suddenly redress Kochanski feels really weird considering it only needs to be for a single scene. Then once they’re arrested she can change into literally anything they want her to wear.

Without being all male-gazey, I think it’s quite noticeable that Chloe is a lot skinnier in VIII. So I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a case of her VII outfits no longer fitting. So they just stuck her in a black t-shirt and cargo trousers. I think she’s also mentioned the red PVC trousers not having much elasticity, so they’d stretched out beyond use by the end of VII.

Given the cast spend most of the series in prison overalls or Canary uniforms, there doesn’t seem to have been much budget for new costumes. I think this is the first series where Cat doesn’t get an entirely new suit to wear. Even Kochanski’s outfit in Pete is just her sparkly red dress from Duct Soup tucked into a pair of grey tracksuit trousers.

On the sexual assault joke front, there’s also that deleted scene from Back in the Red 1 where Kryten has to stop Lister giving an unconscious Kochanski mouth-to-mouth after Starbug crashes, and he calls Kryten a spoilsport for it. Classy.

And after that, they led you to the temporal rip where you met me.

And with that, the plot point of Kochanski being from a parallel dimension is quietly closed. Her dimension jumping origins will never be referenced again, and for all intents and purposes she is just now *our* Kochanski.

[Author]

Posts