Refresh For The Memory: Series X Byte 2

[Ian Symes]

You asked for it. Ahead of the forthcoming 35th anniversary poll, the G&T community is embarking on a big old rewatch, tackling half a series (or one feature length special) per week. This is your designated thread to make notes, share observations and start pondering your rankings.

This week, we’re watching ENTANGLED, DEAR DAVE and THE BEGINNING. Have at it!

Previous threads:

Series 1 Byte 1
Series 1 Byte 2
Series 2 Byte 1
Series 2 Byte 2
Series III Byte 1
Series III Byte 2
Series IV Byte 1
Series IV Byte 2
Series V Byte 1
Series V Byte 2
Series VI Byte 1
Series VI Byte 2
Series VII Byte 1
Series VII Byte 2
Series VIII Byte 1
Series VIII Byte 2
Back To Earth
Series X Byte 1

[Warbodog]

The first time, Entangled was looking to be my favourite episode of the run until it started its descent to Pete level. This time I found it less impressive and the good stuff didn’t reach the heights of Fathers and Suns to balance things out. It’s my least favourite so far, but that indignity might not last long.

– Bringing up the drive plate incident and the reminder that he’s hard light might nuke the Nano Rimmer theory. But he doesn’t bring up his exoneration in Justice either, so I’m being pushed back to “don’t care.”

– Considering how botched the ending turned out, it’s surprising that the paperwork setup and payoff survived intact.

– More pleasing continuity with the quantum rods, the new matter paddle. Might they have paid off again in an unmade finale?

– Quantum entanglement is to positive viruses as Pleasure GELFs are to Polymorphs. A different enough idea to base an episode around, though still a bit too Infinite Improbability Drive to feel original.

– The BEGGs also sound distinct enough in concept, but they’re let down by their realisation as Shitty Kinitawowis. They could have come up with anything.

– I like the meta confirmation that they haven’t come across any life forms and we haven’t missed any big adventures while they’ve been off screen. The fictional series IX & X may have taken place over a decade ago by this point (cf. Kochanski’s age).

– The poker discussion and Kryten’s interruptions are good, even if it was another punchline spoiled by a trailer.

– Kryten pointing out that Lister and Rimmer are also Entangled is clunky, but I like the reminder that the computer’s running on auto and they can’t reason with it any more, setting up the next episode.

– Funniest: “Did it work?” “No.” I’d forgotten the gag, but saw it coming with just enough time to appreciate the extensive build-up. I also liked Cat thinking Kryten was using “groin exploder” in the same figurative way he would.

– As soon as they get on the station, it falls apart. Rimmer describing the stasis booths just seems like they couldn’t afford to show them, and Kochanski’s given a distractingly weird age.

(This only works if Kochanski disappeared very early on in the nine years, Lister’s assuming she went into stasis very soon after, and this is the confusing way he’s choosing to say it. Did Doug just think 40 sounded untenable for a sci-fi love interest?)

– The chimp feels completely pointless, but at least it delays the appearance of Little Miss Wrong. She feels like a Viz character without the sarcasm.

[Stilianides]

Entangled

A solid opening scene, but it’s immediately clear again that Chris is giving a very different performance to the show’s heyday. He’s now the weak link.

Robert and Danny, on the other hand, do a much better job when they are speaking at the same time. Obviously it’s an old comedy idea, but it’s still fun to watch.

“Love spuds” feels like a Craig contribution to the script. He used the expression a few times on Takeshi’s Castle.

It makes sense for Steven Wickham to return as the BEGGs scene is a blatant rewrite of Emohawk.

The Kochanski references also make sense because, in the reality of the piece, that would be Lister’s obsession. They feel weird, though, because the idea of Kochanski travelling around space on her own doesn’t feel remotely convincing. Plus, there was no need for Doug to be so specific (and ridiculous) about her age. 

I have an issue with the whole coincidence idea. Partly because having huge coincidences is generally seen as being a negative in storytelling, and partly because it feels like Doug himself isn’t sure exactly how it works. It also plays into Doug’s worst habits of lurching between plot ideas. 

I will also confess that I have no idea how making the characters emotional was supposed to lead to a television turning on. If someone can explain this, I would genuinely be grateful.

Kryten’s mask looks particularly terrible towards the end of the ep, but I get bored of this one by the time the last ten minutes comes along. There doesn’t feel like any genuine tension and it’s not funny or smart enough to hold my attention. Robert’s, “Oh, yes…” is nicely delivered, though.

[Ben Saunders]

But where does Rimmer’s light bee go?

[Warbodog]

But where does Rimmer’s light bee go?

This Rimmer is a traditional ghost/poltergeist who thinks he’s a hologram, the others play along.

[International Debris]

Entangled

The first 20 minutes were by far my favourite episode of X on first watch. The last 10 are a different beast. 

Opening scene better than the previous ones, but still pretty weak. 

The initial entangled speech is great, but the staging of it makes it look so cheap. It’s a shame Doug didn’t do more with this theme really. 

Losing Rimmer in a card game is another very funny idea. 

Kryten farting spoons dry is a terrible groinal attachment-esque piece of crap. 

The misunderstanding in the drive room is quite good. Chris still over-eggs it massively. 

Cat’s Rimmer insults are top, less keen on “will have sex with an-y-thing”. 

Love the Welsh TV occasional English words in the BEGG language, especially English Boarding School. 

Spoon of destiny isn’t very good at the start, but “we don’t use it anymore” makes up for it. 

“Scented shiny friend” is wonderful. 

Choke feels like a draft away from something clever and funny. 

Entanglement is basically Luck Virus II. 

ERRA feels slightly more Hitchhikers than Dwarf but it’s great. Kryten’s ‘no’ is utterly brilliant. 

The lift getting directions wrong is a bit cartoony, as is Rimmer feeling comfortable there. 

Rimmer’s light bee is utter nonsense and won’t work no matter how hard you try. 

And the Kochanski thing. The last time we hear about her. Yeah it really begins to fall apart here. 

Oh another evolution machine. 

Pervy stuff here somewhat rescued by Lister’s decency. 

Professor E getting everything wrong is more cartoony nonsense. Upside-down glasses are very VIII. 

Irene-E doesn’t bother me as much this time around, thinking about it as an entanglement thing. It’s still a bit shit though. 

And three female characters disposed of in four episodes. Great stuff. 

I’d love to know what the original ending of this episode was going to be. The first 20 minutes have a lot of potential to tie together with a strong ending, but that’s so not it. That said, I didn’t enjoy it as much this time around as I used to. It’s very clearly bolted together, VIII-style. 

Lots of missed potential, basically. The entanglement and losing Rimmer in a card game could both have had an episode to themselves, or maybe together. Didn’t need any of the other stuff. This is another recurring theme in X. 

[Stilianides]

I’d love to know what the original ending of this episode was going to be. The first 20 minutes have a lot of potential to tie together with a strong ending, but that’s so not it. That said, I didn’t enjoy it as much this time around as I used to. It’s very clearly bolted together, VIII-style. 
Lots of missed potential, basically. The entanglement and losing Rimmer in a card game could both have had an episode to themselves, or maybe together. Didn’t need any of the other stuff. This is another recurring theme in X. 

I wonder how different the original ending was. I presume that the chimp was originally intended to be the one who exited the ship, but that Doug thought simply replacing it with the death of a woman would be just fine. :)

[Warbodog]

Dear Dave

A bit better than I expected, based on its reputation and my memory of it being pretty boring. It still is a bit, but the focus on low-budget minimalism (even if it was only through necessity) feels more fitting for this run than the awkward overreaching of Entangled.

It recaptures some of the early series feel with the ambient plotting, Cat’s delayed appearance, Kryten filling in for Holly/Skutters, straight-up remade jokes and decades-out-of-touch attitudes. It might have been a better fit for some kind of audio series, the visual gags being a sacrifice I’m willing to make.

– What other species is Kryten talking about? Various GELFs? The joke doesn’t really work, and it’s at the expense of any poignancy the scene might have had.

– The Kryten/Rimmer scene is much better, from the detail of the Subbuteo training to the gags and another fitting subplot for Rimmsy.

– “I’ve been dead for most of that.” Turns out I do still care about this. “Since the crew got wiped out” could mean the resurrected crew. It doesn’t, but it could.

– Some distractingly odd phrasing from Kryten.

– I didn’t find the charades scene funny or annoying, it simply passed the time differently, as Cat hoped.

– The Rimmer and Lister plots connect nicely for what was (I think?) a rushed script replacement. Much better than Duct Soup. Even if I don’t have much to say about it.

[Stilianides]

Dear Dave

An episode that firmly deserves its negative reputation…

The opening scene, however, is amiable enough and Lister feeling morose about being the last human feels in character and makes complete sense given his situation.

The JMC onboard computer suddenly becoming an active thing feels pretty desperate. 

Chris’s performance is again a world away from the show’s heyday. Rewatching all of these episodes again now only reinforces how OTT he is in comparison with any of the early series.

The Jacobean (Kenneth Williams) scene is pretty embarrassing to watch. It’s some bad Doug standup being performed by Chris (not Rimmer).

The vending machines are all played in the zany way that Doug seems to like, but I can’t say that I enjoy their inclusion.

Saving money from the toilet paper budget. Not Doug’s finest idea for a story.

The charades scene is another desperate time filler and, again, it feels more like the actors than the characters.

The arrival of the post pod, while not a new idea, is at least a sensible way to add a little plot to the episode. It probably should have come in a lot earlier than the 15th minute. 

I don’t have an issue with Rimmer questioning whether Hayley Summers might be a man, simply because Rimmer is the sort of character who can say completely unacceptable things. I have more of a problem with how badly written it is. For example, “When you did the foxtrot, did you ever wonder why she was shaving?” What the hell is that? “I don’t know whether to laugh or laugh” is more amusing.

The Cat’s insensitivity feels like a rewrite of VII, but Danny plays it well and it’s a solidly contructed scene.

Lister lying on top of the vending machine is a pretty desperate attempt to recreate a moment from Polymorph. It doesn’t make any sense, obviously, and it might not have been quite so bad if he’d been kneeling next to the machine and trying to pick it up. But they probably should have just cut this whole thread.

While I have huge issues with Series X, I will stick up a little for the ending. Doug takes the time to make it clear how important that letter is to Lister and how invested he is in finding out whether he is a father. It’s an age-old writing technique, but building up that anticipation and then swiftly puncturing it with the brutal punchline works in terms of the structure of the joke. I understand why some people dislike the use of the word “slag”, but I would say that it is just about believable that Lister would use it in this context considering how emotional he was at the time.

An interesting episode due to the late reshoots with the vending machines and Subbuteo stuff late additions. It feels a little like a sketch show and it’s a shame that the post pod stuff didn’t start earlier, as that could have been the heart and soul of the episode.

[Warbodog]

I thought it was competently written and held together, it just doesn’t look that way because it’s not very engaging. The title plot being late to start is common early in the series (e.g. Future Echoes, Better Than Life) and the early scenes establish Lister’s loneliness and Rimmer’s crisis that will come together later, so there’s nothing as random as Rimmer’s hairdos and cooking. Even Cat needing to do a shit is related to the plot. So Dear Dave is actually kind of better than Future Echoes, in a way, if you ignore quality.

[International Debris]

Anyone else note the theme tune is bassier in X?

Dear Dave

Lister suddenly being lonely feels akward after all this time. That scene starts badly but goes in a funny direction. 

Lister and the vending machines. Hmm. 

Rimmer and Kryten is good. Subutteo, stop writing them, I hate helping you. It’s a solid run of gags. 

Rimmer and Lister’s perfect woman thing feels really odd given that Kochanski has been completely written out now. 

Fucking hell the ‘move’ bit is fucking terrible. Probably the comedic low point of X. Just the setup of Rimmer trying educate Lister about women is utterly ludicrous. 

Lister and another vending machine again. I always thought the flirting plot here is way too ambiguous. The whole episode is built around it and yet I can never work out exactly what’s going on. 

Oh God the green screen bunk room is so horrible once you know it. 

2,143 restrooms for a ship of 1,169 people? 

Cat doing the bad news as charades is a terrible idea but it’s somehow really funny. All their own paranoias, death worm and the exceptional “it’s turned into a jacket”. 

Mailpod, yet another callback plot. 

Football commentary stuff is cringey. Parking fine is a nice derailing of Rimmer’s enthusiasm. 

The whole ‘nothing happening’ feel is very pre-III in feeling which I’ve always liked about this episode. 

JMC onboard computer is always a bit odd. How does that work and why isn’t it Holly? 

Cat telling Lister not to think about it is Nanarchy’s opening scene only funny. 

Everything about the vending machine sex scene is fucking terrible. It makes absolutely zero sense and is just the Polymorph Kryten sex scene done worse. 

Better ending:

“What an absolute-” it’s cold outside

[cwickham]

> JMC onboard computer is always a bit odd. How does that work and why isn’t it Holly? 

I think the intention is that it’s an automated system which nobody can shut off; the show isn’t as clear as it could be, but the idea doesn’t seem hugely different to Lister being able to sit the chef’s exam in Balance of Power.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Oh God the green screen bunk room is so horrible once you know it. 

Am I seriously the only one here who noticed it first time?

[Stilianides]

I thought it was competently written and held together, it just doesn’t look that way because it’s not very engaging. The title plot being late to start is common early in the series (e.g. Future Echoes, Better Than Life) and the early scenes establish Lister’s loneliness and Rimmer’s crisis that will come together later, so there’s nothing as random as Rimmer’s hairdos and cooking. Even Cat needing to do a shit is related to the plot. So Dear Dave is actually kind of better than Future Echoes, in a way, if you ignore quality.

True, but I think the issue for some people is that the Hayley Summers plot is supposed to be such a big emotional thing for Lister that more time could have been devoted to setting that up. As it is, she comes out of the blue.

[Warbodog]

My favourite of the Dave era before The Promised Land (hopefully there’s more going on in-between than I credited), The Beginning suffers a bit from looking cheap for 2012, and it’s lost some of its gravitas now it’s no longer the potential finale, but it’s an engaging story that feels like it might have the most convincing character growth for Rimmer ever, even if the execution’s customarily clumsy by this point.

– The Hogey backstory is my favourite thing in this series, the idea that there was this recurring, slightly bumbling antagonist (best season ever, if you ask me) who they came to appreciate for providing mutually entertaining diversions of a less deadly nature than usual, until it got boring and they needed something harder again.

– “This galaxy” doesn’t sound like it means the Milky Way, whereas “half-way around the galaxy” in Back in the Red does. I dunno.

– Concern would be an entirely appropriate response under these circumstances, sir, but not when there was a hull breach venting atmosphere a few minutes ago.

– The attack on Red Dwarf looks good and satisfies some unrealised adolescent craving.

– After the effort they went to with Hogey, the Simulants look pathetic. At least they’re easy to play at home.

– The Simulant scenes are funny enough, but making the baddies funny definitely makes them less menacing than in the old days, as has been much discussed. There’s not a right or wrong way, maybe I just prefer what I’m used to…?

– Simulant Deathships and Annihilators can’t even outrun a Blue Midget, they just have rather silly, macho names.

– Rimmer is definitively confirmed to have both sets of Rimmer memories within the same scene, so that’s that. Unless history repeated and there was another radiation leak in series IX/”X.”

– The asteroids scene is probably an extension of the Empire Strikes Back reference that’s taken as read, like all the Jurassic Park in Pete.

– Funniest: I laughed more at the Dougism “Mole-D / Molly D” than any of the gags, but suggesting a pencil sharpener as a weapon was funny.

[International Debris]

Not opening on a broad stand-up routine ja refreshing. All good stuff, feels like a bubble era opening scene and the young Rimmer is excellent. 

The complete apathy towards an invading Simulant with a gun is wonderful. The whole Hogey stuff is lovely, a very different type of character. Shame the map never came to anything. 

Hogey’s arse sealing the crack coming from Kryten in Backwards. 

Rimmer picking up that holo lamp as he always does when he leaves the ship. 

Some naff lines in here – “I love solo missions” is terrible – but nothing as broad and cringey as earlier episodes. 

The stuff on the Simulant ship is quite funny, in particular the sycophants stuff, but looks cheap and is the first time the enemy threat is totally undermined by them being cartoonishly stupid. 

I was always under the impression that Sims were just psychotic mechanoids. Is it previously referenced that they’re cyborgs with intestines? 

Asteroid belt looks amazing. 

“No weeping, getting hysterical” / “yelling mummy, mummy” – come back Gazpacho soup, all is forgiven. 

I love the guy who has a full on “oh he didn’t” laugh after the first Only the Good gag. 

Lister bringing up Rimmer’s military knowledge is a good and new character based plot. 

Love the timetable. 

Pencil sharpener is such a good joke. 

Not sure about Cat going back to his series 1 character with the string game. His conversation with Rimmer almost works. It working alongside the holo message is too much of a coincidence to properly work. But on the whole it leads to some good stuff and I just wish it had been at least vaguely followed up on in XI and XII. 

“It’s crap” is a great cut. 

More wonderful model work. 

This is easily Rimmer’s high point of X and Chris does it pretty well. 

Post- credits bit is superb. 

X is such a difficult series to judge because every episode has real strengths but also real weaknesses. 

Trojan starts poorly, has a strong second half but also the phone subplot.

Fathers and Suns has the excellent Pree plot which would make a great episode, but the rest is terrible.

Lemons is solid but has a lot of awkward plot ideas and no character stuff, plus the terrible opening scene. 

Entangled is a great idea given the last-minute mangling of an VIII episode. 

Dear Dave has a lot of great gags but just feels underwhelming and has the last line. 

The Beginning is the best episode, but lower on gags than the others. It definitely feels like the closest to a bubble episode though so that doesn’t harm it quite so much. 

On the whole, viewed in close proximity to the classic era it definitely doesn’t stand up as well as it felt on first viewing, but after three terrible series it’s refreshingly watchable again. 

[Moonlight]

I was always under the impression that Sims were just psychotic mechanoids. Is it previously referenced that they’re cyborgs with intestines? 

I’ve always understood the simulants to be essentially part human, or at least just partially organic humanoid lifeforms augmented with machinery.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

I was always under the impression that Sims were just psychotic mechanoids. Is it previously referenced that they’re cyborgs with intestines? 

I think that’s a hangover from the “Homo Sapienoids” draft of The Movie. The in-universe explanation is apparently that Simulant Generals are partly organic, or at least that’s what Kryten’s dialogue seemed to suggest. I guess that makes the more cyborgs than anything else. Or if you’re Akira Toriyama, androids. Because those two things are exactly the same. Definitely.

[Stilianides]

The Beginning

The opening scene is not particularly funny, and feels like an obvious attempt to do something similar to Dimension Jump.

The inclusion of Hogey fits in with Doug’s overpopulated universe and I can’t say that I like the idea of the crew regularly interacting with characters like this. It is a world away from the original concept of the show.

The scene with the Simulants is incredibly broad and makes me pine for the days when the villains played it straight.

It’s interesting to watch the documentary segment on the DVD about the model shots. Bill Pearson did a fine job with limited time and money. There are a couple of really good explosions considering the budget.

Rimmer walking around with the holo lamp is ridiculously stupid. 

Not explaining the conclusion to Series VIII is probably my favourite part of the episode. 

I don’t really believe that Lister would entrust Rimmer with coming up a plan.

The rewriting of Rimmer’s backstory is par for the course for Doug’s Dwarf, but the Dungo stuff is terrible to me. It turns Rimmer into even more of a caricature (if the “mummy, mummy” stuff wasn’t bad enough already).

It should be quite a clever end to the episode, but the broad attempts at comedy undermine what should be a dramatic tussle with the Simulants.

This feels like an attempt to recreate some of the spirit of Series IV/V and VI, but it falls flat for me personally. I don’t enjoy the broadness of the writing and some of the performances aren’t quite what they used to be. Probably my least favourite from Series X.

[Warbodog]

I guess that makes the more cyborgs than anything else. Or if you’re Akira Toriyama, androids. Because those two things are exactly the same. Definitely.

Don’t know that reference, but the ‘androids’ in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? are fully organic replicants that are physically indistinguishable from humans, and its film adaptation was the foundation of Red Dwarf, so it’s used loosely.

I always saw the Justice Simulant and the Inquisitor (visible human hands) as cyborgs, not so much the Gunmen ones that seem more robotty for whatever reason.

[Moonlight]

(if the “mummy, mummy” stuff wasn’t bad enough already)

Every time it happens, I still don’t understand how anyone can hear Lister so obviously taking the piss out of Rimmer, with Rimmer actively responding to say that it’s not true, and still treat it as retconning gazpacho soup. 

[Stilianides]

(if the “mummy, mummy” stuff wasn’t bad enough already)
Every time it happens, I still don’t understand how anyone can hear Lister so obviously taking the piss out of Rimmer, with Rimmer actively responding to say that it’s not true, and still treat it as retconning gazpacho soup. 

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I didn’t and don’t see it as retconning gazpacho soup. My comment about that being “bad enough already” was about Rimmer becoming a complete caricature by this point. The “mummy, mummy” stuff was fairly lazy and obvious from Doug imo (a rewrite of much better jokes from earlier series) and I believe we have more obvious stuff to come in Timewave.

[International Debris]

Every time it happens, I still don’t understand how anyone can hear Lister so obviously taking the piss out of Rimmer, with Rimmer actively responding to say that it’s not true, and still treat it as retconning gazpacho soup. 

It only bothers me because it comes after Rimmer saying that he died instantly and didn’t have time for whining, when he knows that Lister’s already seen him lying on the floor saying gazpacho soup. On its own I’d ignore it, but it almost feels like a doubling down on ignoring Me2. 

[Flap Jack]

Entangled – I think this still averages out to enjoyable, but boy, what a mess. Strong parallels with Emohawk here, with the plot device of being in debt to a tribe of GELFs, and the second half of the story having basically nothing to do with the first half. Although maybe “parallel” is being generous, because it’s more just derivative of it, and Emohawk was itself derivative, so that’s not great. I think I’m going to be in line with consensus and agree that the first half was pretty solid but the second half veered between boring and offensive.

– Lister and Rimmer conflicting over health and safety rules and paperwork feels like an obvious thing to do and it has good comedy potential, but I feel like they whiffed the execution. Rimmer should be obsessing over pointless little details and bureaucracies, not focusing on preventing radiation leaks, which is a totally valid thing to be concerned about. Framing it like this just makes Lister seem like an arsehole for being against it. His argument of “why are you trying to protect the crew, they’re already dead lol” is completely nonsensical, and makes it seem like he’s happy for him and Cat and Kryten to all die horrifically.

It feels kind of uncomfortable for Doug to frame totally reasonable safety measures as something only an anally retentive twerp like Rimmer would care about.

The final sign that this through line doesn’t work is that Edgington literally dies due to a lack of safety on the ship, and this proves Rimmer completely right, but nothing is made of it in terms of plot or themes. It’s just an excuse for an extremely jarring and casual quip about paperwork.

– Cat’s hunting a space weevil. Those little guys are all over the universe it seems.

– The Roots of Coincidence by Arthur Koestler – next book for the DwarfCast Book Club?

– Lister gambling away Starbug and Rimmer is irresponsible to the point of being out of character. I don’t know if classic era Lister would have ever done that, but if he would, then he should have moved beyond that by now.

– It doesn’t feel right that they say as soon as Lister dies Rimmer will automatically be deactivated. I can buy it happening when Red Dwarf has an overly officious computer in charge like Pree or TPL Holly, but it doesn’t follow that this would just happen on its own. Rimmer spent several centuries on his own in Rimmerworld without shutting down, and in Better Than Life (the novel) Lister literally does die and it doesn’t happen.

– If Lister didn’t learn that the BEGG chief spoke English until he met with him with the others, how did he speak to him before?

– Lister thinking Edgington might be Kochanski makes sense from the perspective of him knowing the quantum rod is making crazy coincidences happen, but it really wasn’t worth including because it’s more disappointing to have Kochanski teased and then for nothing to come of it (also the details are odd, like Lister failing to understand that women continue to age when he’s not observing them, or it listing Edgington’s hair colour as brunette when she’s blonde).

– I don’t know how they messed up the direction such that Chris thought he needed to do a “switch back to hardlight” motion after he’d already opened the door from the inside.

– Them all creepily staring at a naked and inexplicably silent Edgington is so bad. Sure, Lister eventually goes to cover her up, but their hesitance and their gawping is very Krytie TV, which is not a comparison you ever want. It’s just such a bizarre way to treat their first encounter with another living human out in deep space in however long.

– The way they set up the whole “do the opposite of what Irene says” bomb defusal sequence is incredibly awkward and forced, with her always conveniently providing n-1 guesses. It also doesn’t feel earned for the quantum rod to help them know when the universe is shifting from “Irene is always wrong” to “Irene is always wrong, unless it would be maximum irony to suddenly be right”. They could just as well argue that a feature of “gets everything wrong” could be that nominative determinism never happens, or that nothing ironic ever happening to someone called Irene E is itself ironic.

– Is Edgington wrong about everything (irony aside) or just clumsy and wrong about things that are down to chance? Only the latter really makes any semblance of sense, but it does seem like they’re portraying her as an idiot.

– Already mentioned this with the regards to the health and safety thread, but it can’t be understated how callous and off putting Edgington’s death is as a note to end the episode on.

[Warbodog]

it listing Edgington’s hair colour as brunette when she’s blonde

When you put it like that, it sounds like it’s a gag about the ERRA database being wrong, but then it probably should have said ‘male’ too. But then it would have just been the gag from Tikka again.

It’s hard to tell if something’s deliberately wrong when the episode itself has started to…

…

…Is Entangled meta?

[cwickham]

> or it listing Edgington’s hair colour as brunette when she’s blonde

Presumably a hangover from how last-minute Sydney Stevenson’s casting — and indeed the creation of the character at all — were, which nobody caught in time to fix it?

[Moonlight]

(also the details are odd, like Lister failing to understand that women continue to age when he’s not observing them, or it listing Edgington’s hair colour as brunette when she’s blonde).

File the blonde / brunette confusion alongside Pree’s hair appearing brown or even black when it’s actually blonde. I would hazard a guess that Professor E wasn’t a thing even by time they shot most of the episode. Entangled starts so well and ends so poorly, and you can absolutely tell that most of the second half was thrown out and hastily rewritten at the absolute last minute. I distinctly remember having especially enjoyed it on airing and being a bit surprised by all the criticism, but a decade on and I pretty much agree with all of it.

I’m really deeply glad we got XI / XII / TPL because I feel like, for as much as I still enjoy Series X, I would probably be significantly more unhappy about its obvious flaws if it had ended up the last new Dwarf we ever got. If we had gotten an ever so brief revival that had loads of promise, felt like an obvious improvement over much of the original final two series, but wasn’t able to deliver on its ambitions largely because of ridiculous production incompetence that would have stung BADLY after the initial high of getting more episodes had worn down. This in part because they are fairly more recent, but I have XI / XII on my regular watch rotation alongside I-VI in a way I don’t quite with X. I feel like I can endlessly rewatch (most of) those twelve episodes in exactly the same way I did the original BBC series for so many years.

I’m eagerly awaiting getting to the next two bytes especially and being so much more positive about them than anyone else. I fucking adore Series XI and in my opinion as a whole it is easily the closest thing we’ve ever gotten to the Rob years since he left. XII having Timewave hugely drags down the average if you look at the whole thing, unfortunately, coupled with it airing during a particularly rough time of my life, but it’s still mostly very good.

[cwickham]

If you read the G&T set report for Entangled it states that:

“the last 5 minutes of the episode have not been filmed due to said new actor/actress being taken ill before shooting the pre-record VT that was intended for us”

We’re Smegged goes into more detail on this, IIRC, but basically they only discovered on the day of shooting that there were limitations on the amount of time the actor playing the chimp could stay in the costume that required the original ending to be thrown out.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Her hair is listed as brunette because the chimp is brunette. I thought that was the joke. 

[Warbodog]

I’ve always felt generally warm towards X and cold/indifferent to XI & XII. Mainly because X was the long-awaited proper return that finally fixed the bad endings, partly because of the temperature of the lighting/grade/whatever, but also because X seemed to be aiming for something greater (even if it ultimately missed) whereas XI in particular seemed like Doug giving up the ambition and playing things disappointingly safe and retro, since that’s what the ceaselessly critical fans supposedly wanted. I don’t need things to keep going forever for the sake of it.

Hopefully I can appreciate them more than I did at the time now the legacy feels decidedly more finite.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

I’ve always felt generally warm towards X and cold/indifferent to XI & XII. Mainly because X was the long-awaited proper return that finally fixed the bad endings, partly because of the temperature of the lighting/grade/whatever, but also because X seemed to be aiming for something greater (even if it ultimately missed) whereas XI in particular seemed like Doug giving up the ambition and playing things disappointingly safe and retro, since that’s what the ceaselessly critical fans supposedly wanted. I don’t need things to keep going forever for the sake of it.
Hopefully I can appreciate them more than I did at the time now the legacy feels decidedly more finite.

I think you just summed up how I feel about XI/XII better than I ever could. Though I also preferred the colour scheme and the lighting in X. X was a bit bland and safe but XI/XII had far too much overpowering blue for my liking, and I thought it was too dark in some bits. There’s some other things I didn’t like about it as well but I don’t feel like opening up that can of worms.

[Flap Jack]

Dearest David – On reflection this one probably is as bad as its reputation suggests. It’s a real nothingburger. The plot about Rimmer possibly getting demoted could have been a solid successor to Balance of Power, as the prospect of Lister and Rimmer becoming co-COs has great comedy potential, but unfortunately they don’t make anything of that aspect, and it becomes an incredibly boring subplot instead. Rimmer pulling rank on Lister hasn’t really been a thing since the early series anyway, so who gives a shit. Rimmer becoming a 3rd Tech would most likely change nothing. Then there’s the “main” plot about Hayley Summers, which… well, I don’t know. On paper I can see that hearing from an old girlfriend and facing the possibility that he might have had a child he didn’t know about would be good drama, but in practice it falls flat for me. Maybe it’s the overly telegraphed way his depression about missing the human race / not having enough of an impact on the universe is set up, or maybe it’s the fact that Hayley clearly means nothing to him because he’s never mentioned her before, but either way the emotions of it don’t ring true.

– So according to Kryten Lister is the last human alive. What a jarring way to find out that Kochanski and the Series VIII crew are 100% definitely dead. So Doug has been dropping these mentions of the quest to find Kochanski all series, only to have them find her dead body in between episodes? That’s cold.

– Them speaking about the human race as if it’s a romantic relationship doesn’t work for me. It’s too forced, and it’s not funny.

– The JMC computer was OK in previous episodes where it was arguably just processing information automatically, but here it’s like an actual sentient character, with it suddenly deciding to bring its bizarre judgement on Rimmer, and I don’t like it. It feels like even 13 years after Series VIII, Doug doesn’t want to fully let go of the plot device of the Dwarfers needing to deal with an external authority figure.

– Rimmer facing demotion because he hasn’t reported for duty in over 3 million years doesn’t make a lick of sense. They ought to have established that the computer was malfunctioning or something, because I simply do not believe that it would be programmed to expect recorded dead crew members to report for duty. Even besides that, Rimmer surely reports for duty every day, so it wouldn’t be 3 million years since he last clocked in. And why is it doing it now, and not immediately after Holly went offline in the 9 year gap?

– It says something when the biggest dramatic turn in the story is that Cat might not be able to wipe his arse, and given that the whole idea was only to remove the toilet paper from bathrooms they don’t tend to use, it’s a poorly justified one at that. Even if you got unlucky, just go to a different one!

– Bizarre for Lister and Rimmer to have a whole conversation about Lister’s procreation prospects in the same episode that makes a major point out of him being the last human alive. Just a total waste of time.

– Cat charades is the thing that most obviously feels like it’s only there to burn the seconds, as he has no reason to do it. Somewhat amusing at least.

– “Something’s happened to Kochanski.” – agghh, heartbreaking. He knows that she’s dead, but when he’s not actively thinking about it he forgets. Bereavement can really mess you up. Or at least that’s what I assume is going on, because I trust that Doug wouldn’t have Lister reference another human being alive in an episode which is entirely predicated on every single human other than Lister being dead.

– I can’t quite get my head around the time frame for Lister’s relationship with Haley, and her letters. Lister was on Red Dwarf for 8 months pre-accident, and given his relationship with Kochanski, it seems unlikely Haley was a fling he had on planet leave. So Haley must have been at least 8 months pregnant when the radiation leak occurred. Assuming post pods take ages to arrive even when the destination ship isn’t hurtling into deep space, it’s plausible that her first letter wouldn’t have arrived before the accident, but by the time she was writing her second letter (which in in the same pod somehow?), surely the baby would have been born and news of Red Dwarf being lost would have got back by then, and they would no longer be sending post to it.

– Lister humping the vending machine is just an awful attempt at farce. I can only cringe.

– Why does Cat take the letters to Lister instead of going directly to the bathroom? If you’re going to make the joke that Cat wipes his bumhole with Lister’s letters, commit to it, goddamnit. It’s not exactly a convincing way to link the 2 plots together.

– Lister’s final line. Yep, it’s awful. You can argue why Lister might say something like that in the heat of the moment, but from a writing point of view there was no reason it had to be done in this way. I guess even a less misogynistic statement would have still undermined the emotion of the scene, but the line we got just maximised the bad taste the episode leaves in your mouth at the end. Lister shaming Haley for behaviour he was pretty nonchalant about when he thought her child might have been his is more depressing than it is a funny subversion.

[Moonlight]

– Them speaking about the human race as if it’s a romantic relationship doesn’t work for me. It’s too forced, and it’s not funny.

I kinda agree, but at the same time I genuinely like his responding to the offer of a cold beer with “The human race invented beer.”

I recommend everyone here watches the Dear Dave deleted scenes if you’re based enough to own Series X on physical media – there’s some genuinely better material in there than a lot of what it was replaced with. Nothing amazing, but I’ll take the “you’ve got old sperm” stuff any day over “Moves move?” Especially because Series X loves its repetition humor to the point of extensively employing it as a comedic crutch in both last-minute replacement episodes. The Beginning’s opening relies on this to an extent that in retrospect feels really tiresome to listen to at times. Because of this pattern, I suspect very strongly that “So what is it?” from White Hole was Doug’s idea, but it’s done far better than here of course.

I love The Beginning, but I sincerely don’t think anyone would debate me in saying that, with the clear and obvious exception of the Rimmer flashback, all its best material is in the latter two-thirds of the episode. There’s some good jokes in these opening scenes but there is an unreasonable amount of repetition humor and very little happens until the simulants show up. It’s kinda fillery. Then the Hari Kari scene falls on our heads, we start getting spaceship action, and everything really picks up steam despite how talky the episode remains even through much of its action climax.

I still consider The Beginning for all its flaws to be a masterpiece of convincing you that four old men sitting around on a cheap set is an epic duel across time and space, to the point where consciously being aware of this fact does little to dampen the effect. This episode feels genuinely bigger than most, and it does that with so fucking little. I really can’t help but relentlessly praise Doug for managing to pull together with no money, time, or resources and still deliver something I would consider a worthy finale to the entire show. It’s not the best episode ever made, but I think it was the right episode to end Series 10. Especially given it very much could have been the ending to the show.

I’d also consider The Beginning some of Chris Barrie’s best work in a series where he is often gurning for the back of the room while delivering every line with three to five times the force he ever would have in the early series.

And Dear Dave, as weak as it is on average, ending up as an actual coherent half-hour of television after all was said and done is still a damn impressive effort from all involved. I don’t have to think it’s a great episode to recognize how hard everyone, especially Doug, had to work to even have an episode to show at all. We’re Smegged is probably the main reason I harbor such enormous respect for Doug as a creative. As badly as I wish I could have my own space sitcom, I’d mentally disintegrate under the kind of pressure Doug was under even before the production fell to pieces and he had to pull two entire episodes out of his ass at the last minute that couldn’t involve building any new sets from scratch.

Series X more than just about any other in the show’s run really is The Little Series That Could. While I would undeniably rank most of the later Dave episodes above X, I’m sincerely glad it exists. It’s sort of a Series I of this new version of Red Dwarf that had to work out all the kinks before it could truly shine again, and boy did it shine again. Sometimes even during X. And when it came out I was still just young enough (early high school) to quasi-uncritically accept it between the excitement of there being more regular episodes and also that they were largely better than what came between them and Series VI.

I watched X to death for years, and even if I don’t so much now, I very fondly remember the series and all the happy memories it gave me – especially just how excited I was that this show that was long ago completely dead when I got into it was now releasing not just a couple new episodes in a new format, but a proper series of six of the same kind of episodes they used to make. I still have XI/XII on regular rotation every so often so it’s not like new Dwarf is a bust for me or anything just because I’ve cooled on Series X in the last decade. I’d greatly wager that I like Series XI & XII (Timewave excluded with EXTREME prejudice) quite significantly more than most people on G&T. Even if I agree about the issues the episodes have, they just do not bother me the way some of the more noticeable issues with X do.

I can’t wait to argue next week that Samsara’s opening scene is quite possibly the best bunkroom chat Doug has ever written without Rob, and that the whole episode is in fact very strong and just happens to have one scene that seriously outstays its welcome.

Don’t worry, you’ll all get a chance to tell me how wrong I am. Just don’t tell anyone I like Can of Worms despite its enormous structural flaws.

[Warbodog]

I love The Beginning, but I sincerely don’t think anyone would debate me in saying that, with the clear and obvious exception of the Rimmer flashback, all its best material is in the latter two-thirds of the episode.

Well in that case, I think I prefer the episode up to the initial attack. I enjoy the tense action stuff later, but it’s all a bit unconvincing. It’s the first Dave episode I rank above Cassandra though, which is high praise! 

[Moonlight]

That’s funny because I really do not care for Cassandra. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Yeah I really really like the Hoogey stuff, so I wouldn’t write that off. And as much as I like the back half, I really hate the Simulants. They’re silly an entirely non threatening. 

I like the “debate me” and then flipping on a dime bit. But the Hari Kari bit is nonsense on stilts. 

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

I’m with KT on everything except the flaws of X being worse than the latter two series, if only because they seemed more apparent to me on watching (that and I hate hate hate the overpoweringly aggressive blue hues in the lighting that seems to permeate every other scene). But everything else about that really does mirror my own experiences with the series to an uncanny degree.

[Rudolph]

Even besides that, Rimmer surely reports for duty every day, so it wouldn’t be 3 million years since he last clocked in. And why is it doing it now, and not immediately after Holly went offline in the 9 year gap?

It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. For the entirety of the three million years that passed between the radiation leak and Lister’s revival, Rimmer was dead anyway. The new Rimmer has been back, what, maybe twenty years? Even if he hasn’t clocked in since the events of The End, that’s still barely anything compared to the millennia he spent as a pile of dust.

[Flap Jack]

The Beginning – The flaws are easier to see now than ever, but regardless, this is a really strong episode and easily the best of the series. Actual character development for Rimmer, imagine that! And unlike Trojan, they don’t just undercut the drama for a quick gag, so that’s a big improvement. The revelation about Rimmer’s parentage does contrast in a weird way with the revelation about Howard being a failure too, but I think it still works. And young Arnold, Hogey and the Simulants are all fun too.

– I like how the “security breach” graphic has an image of Hogey on it. There’s an early hint that dealing with this guy is a regular occurrence.

– Cat says “you want Lister” to Hogey. Been a while since I’ve added to my pointless “Cat says his crewmates’ names” tracking.

– Half asleep Lister reacts to Hogey saying “you killed my brother” with “smeg off, Rimmer”, and this just seems random at first, but now I think about it… Lister kind of did kill Rimmer’s brother, didn’t he? If he hadn’t gone for the phone, Howard wouldn’t have needed to leap in front of Rimmer to protect him from Crawford. Good thing Rimmer doesn’t actually care about his brother, eh.

– Rimmer suggests they have a cooking contest against Hogey instead of a duel. Maybe he’s planning to use his experience of Can’t Smeg, Won’t Smeg, which was definitely canon of course.

– Probably the intention was that Hogey made his own copy by hand, but I like the idea that the Simulants have a detailed map of the galaxy on a loose bit of cloth.

– Odd moment where Rimmer thinks Simulants wouldn’t have a problem with him, only Lister. Every encounter they’ve had with Simulants before has confirmed the opposite.

– I don’t mind the fact that these Simulants are more silly, but the hari-kari scene (and to a lesser extent the sycophants scene) is a bit ruined by the gag being over-explained. Every time Chancellor Wednesday says “oh, so you didn’t mean to cut myself with the sword?” it makes it less funny.

– Simulants have really gone down in strength over the years. In Justice they would reputably shrug off short range bazookoid fire. In The Beginning they can be seriously injured with a sword.

– I’m a bit confused about why they abandon Red Dwarf for Blue Midget. Surely Red Dwarf has much better defences, and travels faster.

– I do see the issue with Rimmer saying his death was instantaneous, but I don’t interpret it as a retcon of Me², more just that Rimmer is in the habit of bending the truth to make himself look better. And given Lister’s point about him saying “mummy”, he maybe was stretching the definition of “instant” to include “quick”.

– Rimmer’s battle plan timetable is a nice detail.

– Lovely – and rare – to get such an earnest scene between Rimmer and Cat. Arguably out of character for Cat to be so wise and considerate, but Danny’s performance sells it. On this watch at least, I didn’t interpret him playing with the string as a regression to Series 1 Cat, but that he was doing that deliberately to lower Rimmer’s guard.

– Rimmer having this hologram message that is deeply important to him but we never see him grab it on any of the other dozens of times he’s had to abandon ship is quite a stretch, but never mind.

– Nice character development that Rimmer had the confidence to come up with and execute his plan against the Simulants, but let’s be real here, the plan was awful, they just got lucky. The plan depended on the extremely unlikely circumstance that the ships would be positioned perfectly opposite each other and all fire on Blue Midget at the same time. Good thing these Simulants are extremely stupid. But I guess if things hadn’t worked out so well, the molly-D would have still protected them for a while and bought them some time.

– I know it’s just for the callback, but what does Dominator Zlurth think he’ll achieve by asking for POW protection? Blue Midget isn’t attacking them, there’s nothing Rimmer could do to stop the missiles. Also, given the missiles aren’t moving that fast, could they not have just… moved out of the way?

—–

Watched the special features again too. With ‘We’re Smegged’, it’s always good to be reminded of the amazing effort and ingenuity that went into making Series X happen. Plenty to complain about with Fathers & Suns, Entangled and Dear Dave, but as others have pointed out, it’s incredible that those episodes were even as good as they were. The accounts of how they finished filming the series and then realised the footage was not up to broadcast standard, and how they needed to rescue the single copies of all the rushes, are still jaw-dropping.

Ultimately, none of my retrospective criticisms can undo the sheer joy I felt watching this series for the first time back in 2012. It was such a great feeling for Red Dwarf to be back properly, and funny. (I don’t agree that X is better than XI or XII though. Let’s not get carried away.)

The deleted scenes also provide reasons to be grateful. We could have had a medi-bot scene in Trojan, and we could have had Cat and Lister talking at length about how Lister should coerce Kochanski into sex in Entangled, so thank goodness we didn’t.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

> I’m a bit confused about why they abandon Red Dwarf for Blue Midget. Surely Red Dwarf has much better defences, and travels faster.

Blue Midget is more manuverable and lets face it, Red Dwarf if pretty defenceless.

[Warbodog]

Also, given the missiles aren’t moving that fast, could they not have just… moved out of the way?

Farscape Crap: When watching The Beginning, the concept of the sought-after galaxy map, Hogey sealing a hull breach with his fat arse* and visuals of the Simulant armada vaguely reminded me of things that happened in the ace Aussie sci-fi show.

The connections were so flimsy that I put them down to chance, but then remembered that Doug was planning to make a Red Dwarf film in Australia around the same time, and that The Beginning partly/largely(?) originated in those drafts, so he no doubt would have checked out the home-grown fare.

These are all things from early in the episode and earlyish Farscape episodes from 1999-2000.
After that point, the swooping attack on Red Dwarf, the asteroid belt and some dialogue felt a bit suspiciously Star Warsy, but that’s probably me reaching.

*I know this part also happened in Rob’s Backwards novel even earlier, but without it I have nothing.

[Formica]

Anyone else note the theme tune is bassier in X?

Are you, by any chance, watching a Region 1 DVD?

[International Debris]

I’m not. 

[Dave]

I’m not. 

[Rudolph]

[Warbodog]

I don’t know what I’m watching.

[Unrumble]

Anyone else note the theme tune is bassier in X?

[Formica]

For those who don’t know – I’m sure it’s come up here before – the DVD copies of X were positively fucked in the frame rate conversion for the States and slowed down (I want to say 4%?). You can really tell, hell, the theme tune’s down about a pitch. This watch-through I put my foot down and said we’re watching it the tough way, streaming it to the tv from a certain website with a Tongan domain. This may be the first time I’ve watched it at the correct speeds.

– I had hoped it would improve some scenes by just having slightly more natural pacing. I was still surprised the couple times I really felt that it did, most notably the ‘introducing the crew to Howard’ scene. I’ve never enjoyed touch-T and ‘hosed him down and gave him a hat’ as much as this time. Couldn’t tell ya more.

– The slow version the characters have voices that damn near rumble the room, but most of the performances, especially Chris and Danny, were still lower than I thought they’d be compared to every other series. Maybe it is a series of all things low-end bass.

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