Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions

[Piplup2003]

The title says it all. What opinions do you have about Red Dwarf that no-one else seems to agree on?

For me, it’s that VIII is my second favourite series (behind V) and that I prefer Chloë over Claire as Kochanski (this may be partially influenced by the fact that I’ve met Chloë).

And please, no arguing.

Topic

[Flap Jack]

Krynine

Parallel Galaxy

Monomorph

The Last Hour

Cakillometre

White Part

Dimension Step

Holodeck

Terrorthreem

Footquark

Rimmerland

Fathers & Planets

The Begover

Tenica

Timenod

C-Corp

Hopper

The Promised City

[Warbodog]

The Comicall Historie of the Life and Death of the Crew of the Jupiter Mining Corporation Spaceship, The Red Dwarf, Act I: „The End,” in Which the Crew Are Dead, Killed by a Radiation Leak. The Only Survivors Are Dave Lister, Who Was in Suspended Animation During the Disaster, and His Pregnant Cat, Who Was Safely Sealed in the Hold. Revived Three Million Years Later, Lister’s Only Companions Are a Lifeform Who Evolved From His Cat and Arnold Rimmer, a Hologram Simulation of One of the Dead Crew. Oh Yeah, and Holly Too.

[Ben Saunders]

That’s basically what the original title for Star Wars was

[Rushy]

Still waiting for the Whills to turn up

[Moonlight]

Nanchy

[International Debris]

What the fuck is Footquark?!

[Flap Jack]

What the fuck is Footquark?!

Leg => Foot

ion => quark

[Warbodog]

That one took me a while, even with limited options, but I got there in the end.

[Ewing]

They shoulda stuck with the original ending for Out of Time where Rimmer destroys the time drive and gets a hero moment.

[Rushy]

The splitting of Grant and Naylor, the creative divergence in their variants of Red Dwarf and how it’s all evolved over time is probably more interesting than a few more series of bubble Dwarf would’ve been. 

[Warbodog]

I’m probably unimaginative, but I can’t conceive of there being more series of bubble quality anyway. The partnership already seemed to be running out of steam in VI and they would have needed a break before trying again. A gestalt of late 90s Grant and late 90s Naylor isn’t catching either of them at their best.

Unpopular: I don’t find behind-the-scenes drama that interesting anyway and never really needed to know why they split or needed them to get back together, it’s just how things go.

[Rushy]

Unpopular: I don’t find behind-the-scenes drama that interesting anyway and never really needed to know why they split or needed them to get back together, it’s just how things go.

I mean from an artistic standpoint. How it went from a gestalt product that was firmly 50% each, to the two separate branches (especially with Backwards and Last Human). The shortcomings of both becoming more apparent without the support of the other, the obvious Second Writer-shaped hole in both of their books. 

[Flap Jack]

I’m probably unimaginative, but I can’t conceive of there being more
series of bubble quality anyway. The partnership already seemed to be
running out of steam in VI and they would have needed a break before
trying again. A gestalt of late 90s Grant and late 90s Naylor isn’t
catching either of them at their best.

Well, it seems likely the reason they were running out of steam is also a big part of why they broke up. So anyone imagining hypothetical extra Grant/Naylor series may as well also imagine that they’d get a second wind.

[Turk Thrust]

I wouldn’t exactly say Series VI showed them “running out of steam” as it’s still a great show (and light years better than VII), but if they’d stayed together, they would have needed to take the show in a new direction again. 

I also wonder whether even if they’d stayed together, would they have tried to make a Series VII without Chris Barrie/Rimmer?

In addition to Red Dwarf, I think the pilot and regular episodes of The 10%ers indicate how different they were together and apart. The pilot is very dark whereas Doug’s episodes are much lighter and more traditional sitcom (and quite funny if memory serves).

[Dave]

Well, it seems likely the reason they were running out of steam is also a big part of why they broke up. So anyone imagining hypothetical extra Grant/Naylor series may as well also imagine that they’d get a second wind.

I might also imagine that they gave me £10,000 in cash for being such a dedicated fan.

[Jenuall]

VI does start to show a little strain, not a lot – but a little. But I always find I have quite a lot of grace for it as it was coming off the back of V->USA which seems like it was an incredibly intense and stressful time for GNP generally and Rob and Doug individually, then they were thrown to the lions a bit by the BBC pushing for a spring release of VI necessitating a very quick turnaround for scripts. 

I think if they’d had a bit more time to recover between V and VI they’d have ironed out the few kinks VI had.

But it’s hard to be too upset when we still got a series as incredible as VI was!

[tombow]

I was thinking…if a main cast member was convicted of a serious crime in the 90s, what would it have actually done to the show’s legacy and fandom?

[International Debris]

As someone who isn’t a huge fan of VI, I tend to agree with the idea that the breakup isn’t as simple as “if only Rob stayed and wrote VII it would have been great”. It’s certainly possible that they might have both shifted away from the monster of the week, running gag, low character focus / pathos route like Doug attempted with VII, but I do think all of that was at least partly because they felt writing to a formula was easier, which is definitely a sign of creative fatigue. If I had to make a guess based on absolutely nothing at all, I think their VII would have been better than Doug’s, but noticeably weaker than the rest, would have been the final series, and would be broadly remembered as one of those “they went on for one series too many” final series’, like One Foot in the Grave, 2point4 Children, Bottom, and a bunch of other ‘90s sitcoms are often accused of having (not inherently agreeing or disagreeing with those, just an observation).  

[Ben Saunders]

What other fan favourite characters would they have desperately brought back in their gestalt Series VII? Hudzen 10? Camille? Marilyn Monroe-bot?

[gerrydelasel]

What other fan favourite characters would they have desperately brought
back in their gestalt Series VII?

A sentient triple fried egg butty with chilli sauce and chutney.

[Turk Thrust]

What other fan favourite characters would they have desperately brought back in their gestalt Series VII? Hudzen 10? Camille? Marilyn Monroe-bot?

Well, certainly not Kochanski based on Rob’s comments when VII was broadcast.

[Dave]

What other fan favourite characters would they have desperately brought back in their gestalt Series VII? Hudzen 10? Camille? Marilyn Monroe-bot?

If Chris Barrie still leaves the show in this timeline, I reckon Lister replaces him with a hologram of Petersen and the show becomes Men Behaving Badly in space.

[Rushy]

I think Hollister would’ve been more likely. Mark Williams’ career was already ramping up by this point. 

[Dave]

That’s OK, in my imaginary version of the timeline Mark Williams was free to do it, a seventh series of Red Dwarf got made in 1994, and I had a torrid affair with Philippa Forrester.

[Unrumble]

That’s OK, in my imaginary version of the timeline Mark Williams was free to do it, a seventh series of Red Dwarf got made in 1994, and I had a torrid affair with Philippa Forrester.

[Dax101]

While i think Series 6 got a bit formulaic in areas, i don’t really see it as running out of steam as much as Rob and Doug leaning heavily into a particular direction they felt was the strongest. Which ended up becoming formulaic.

But then, when that series also won and Emmy and comedy award, its hard to say there was any loss of steam. 

Based on recent information and knowing certain episodes like Out of Time were still being written while shooting, it does seem like after the US Pilot they were slightly held back by something. Maybe their own success that they didnt know what to do with or where to go with it. And so the writing was a little more rushed for Series 6. And Doug said in that interview recently that they were being sued by penguin for not writing the 3rd book in the time they were meant too.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

What other fan favourite characters would they have desperately brought back in their gestalt Series VII? Hudzen 10? Camille? Marilyn Monroe-bot?

In all seriousness, I am sort of surprised Doug hasn’t brought Camille or the Holoship. Both are still out there in the universe. 

In fact a Holoship sequel could actually be quite good if done well. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

While i think Series 6 got a bit formulaic in areas, i don’t really see it as running out of steam as much as Rob and Doug leaning heavily into a particular direction they felt was the strongest. Which ended up becoming formulaic.

Only the set up was formulaic really, i.e. hunt for red dwarf, cockpit / bridge of starship gags etc etc 

A lot of the concepts are really good and fresh

Legion, GELFs, Gunman, Rimmerworld*, Out of Time are all broadly doing new things with the show and characters

It’s only Psirens (sort of rehash of Polymorph) and an actually Polymorph sequel with two other call backs that makes 6 feel more repetitive. 

*that said Rimmerworld itself is sort of an episode looking for a premise. The premise is Rimmer gets stuck on planet populated entirely by himself, but we don’t actually get to see that really. The first half is him getting stranded, the second half is the crew netting some Rimmer clones, getting thrown in jail and then teleporting. 

It’s a bit series 1 and 2 in that sense where often the main drive of the episode doesn’t kick in until right towards the end and then it’s dispensed with quite quickly

[Ben Saunders]

[Ben Saunders]

In fact a Holoship sequel could actually be quite good if done well. 

That’s a point, where did the Holoship even go? What was it doing? Couldn’t they have hung out together? Do they all age like Rimmer or not because they have no reason to? What if Rimmer beamed over to the Holoship but just fell into space because he’s hardlight and they’re not? Why weren’t the holocrew hardlight if Howard Rimmer was? What’s projecting this chicken?

[Dave]

[Rushy]

In all seriousness, I am sort of surprised Doug hasn’t brought Camille or the Holoship.

That sort of sequel writing has never been Doug’s style, though?

The only characters he’s ever brought back for sheer nostalgia are Red Dwarf crewmembers, Talkie Toaster and the Polymorph. 

[Dax101]

Considering how Doug writes guest stars now. It might be best not to get a sequel to Holoship as they were not written particularly comedic. We would be more likely to get an idea that felt very similar to Holoship.

The premise is Rimmer gets stuck on planet populated entirely by himself, but we don’t actually get to see that really. The first half is him getting stranded, the second half is the crew netting some Rimmer clones, getting thrown in jail and then teleporting. 

When you think its a planet of basically clones of one man who basically evolve as a society in the same way as human history has. There is something really unique and cool about that. If they had told that story in the novels it would have been very interesting. But at the same time, to me it might be the first time i felt Rob and Doug got a bit too ambitious and slightly overstepped the mark. They don’t go overboard in the same way i feel Doug has done with the Dave Era, as they still used their time wisely in Rimmerworld. Which is better than trying to do too much and ending up with a mess.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

In all seriousness, I am sort of surprised Doug hasn’t brought Camille or the Holoship.
That sort of sequel writing has never been Doug’s style, though?
The only characters he’s ever brought back for sheer nostalgia are Red Dwarf crewmembers, Talkie Toaster and the Polymorph.  

But he does often bring back characters just for reasons 

Kochanski

Talkie

Numerous Polymorphs

numerous GELFs (of which Polymorphs are)

Ace (the concept, multiple times)

Duane (the concept, multiple times)

Simulents (the concept, multiple times)

Hollister

Holly (arguably)

Kryten (arguably)

He’s done a sequel to Justice and hung a lampshade on it 

He’s done “multiple Rimmers” and hung a lampshade on it 

He’s redone Dimension Jump and completely ignored it 

He’s done a sequel to Waiting for God

A sequel to Holoship wouldn’t stand out as too strange. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

When you think it’s a planet of basically clones of one man who basically evolve as a society in the same way as human history has. There is something really unique and cool about that. If they had told that story in the novels it would have been very interesting.

Agreed

[Rushy]

 But he does often bring back characters just for reasons 

which are very specific. 

Kochanski – to restructure the show (replace Barrie)

Ace – to restructure the show (write out Barrie)

Hollister – to restructure the show (prison format)

Duane – is a joke, not a character

Simulants, Polymorphs, GELFs – are never related to their past incarnations

Sequel to Justice – is not a sequel at all, but merely uses similar tech. The actual storyline is completely different

Multiple Rimmers – again, not a sequel, just a similar premise

Dimension Jump – Skipper has absolutely nothing in common with this episode aside from the fact that a version of Rimmer goes into another dimension. That’s not a sequel and it certainly isn’t redoing the original 

Talkie and Waiting for God are the only legitimate “sequels” here

[clem]

Ouroboros brought back the Kinitawowi tribe from Emohawk, seeking revenge for Lister ditching his wife. I’d say that counts as a sequel. Admittedly we don’t see any of them except the photo of Hackhackhackachhachhachach.

[Rushy]

Oh, true that. Yeah, fair

[Warbodog]

Hitler was supposed to be the same one from Timeslides until it was revealed he wasn’t. It was still Hitler being in Red Dwarf and interacting with Lister yet again, but no doubt doesn’t count.

[Flap Jack]

The Beginning brought back the character of Young Rimmer from Dimension Jump.

[Dax101]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the reception to Back to Earth made him a little more avoidant of using old ideas, as in the BTE commentary, he sounded a little bothered that people were saying he ran out of ideas because he used the suicide squid idea again. Aka the joy squid.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

The Beginning brought back the character of Young Rimmer from Dimension Jump.

It also brought back Hogey from the film 

[Turk Thrust]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the reception to Back to Earth made him a little more avoidant of using old ideas, as in the BTE commentary, he sounded a little bothered that people were saying he ran out of ideas because he used the suicide squid idea again. Aka the joy squid.

I would say that Doug still reused huge numbers of ideas throughout the Dave era, though. In fact, I can’t think of many other U.K. sitcoms that have gone back to old ideas more (mixed in with plenty of good new ideas, too).

Dear Dave, for example, takes the post pod idea from Better Than Life, remakes the sex scene from Polymorph and reuses a punchline from Nanarchy.

Fathers and Suns has Pree who can see the future and complete the characters’ sentences in the same way that Cassandra did (an episode which itself borrowed from Future Echoes).

Entangled brings back Steven Wickham in a role and scene that has plenty of similarities to his appearance in Emohawk. 

Series XI and XII also had plenty of reused ideas.

[Technopeasant]

T

[Warbodog]

D.N.A. acknowledges that Polymorph was a similar situation.

They kept reusing the idea of Tony Hawks as a guest star.

As any series goes on, the chance of every situation being completely original diminishes.

(But I do find the precognition of Cassandra, the Back to Earth typewriter and Pree too similar, and apparently there’s a similar precognitive bit in Sin Bin Island too, Doug loves to do that bit).

[Rushy]

To be fair, it is a good bit, and Pree was the best version of it so I can’t be mad. 

[Warbodog]

[Dave]

[Podey]

I didn’t realise this was an unpopular Red Dwarf opinion but I think VI is rather good.

[Rushy]

VI is comfort food Dwarf. Something about the way it’s so structured (not just the gags, but the way everyone now has their own station, the fact there’s a day/night shift, the food rationing etc.) injects endorphins into my brain. 

I get the same effect from Blake’s 7 series 4. They went from this big comfortable spaceship where everyone lounges around and plays board games, to a scrappy little rust bucket. And now everyone’s trained, and there’s assignments and Avon acts like a military commander. 

[Author]

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