Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Refresh For The Memory: Series XII Byte 2

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  • #281265
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    You asked for it. Alongside the current 35th anniversary poll, the G&T community is embarking on a big old rewatch, tackling half a series (or one feature length special) per week. This is your designated thread to make notes, share observations and start pondering your rankings.

    This week, we’re watching MECHOCRACY, M-CORP and SKIPPER. Have at it!

    Previous threads:

    Series 1 Byte 1
    Series 1 Byte 2
    Series 2 Byte 1
    Series 2 Byte 2
    Series III Byte 1
    Series III Byte 2
    Series IV Byte 1
    Series IV Byte 2
    Series V Byte 1
    Series V Byte 2
    Series VI Byte 1
    Series VI Byte 2
    Series VII Byte 1
    Series VII Byte 2
    Series VIII Byte 1
    Series VIII Byte 2
    Back To Earth
    Series X Byte 1
    Series X Byte 2
    Series XI Byte 1
    Series XI Byte 2
    Series XII Byte 1

    #281267
    Warbodog
    Participant

    The One That Everyone Incorrectly Predicted Would Be The One Where Everyone’s Kryten

    I was questioning why the on-the-nose satirical one had been my favourite from this era the first time. It was probably the ship-based, voice-guests-only bottle show aspect I mainly responded to (especially as some rehabilitation after the previous pair), but it’s also funny and just very watchable.

    It’d be the underrated filler in an older series, but it’s my favourite of XI & XII so far. It’s good to be back on grown-up Red Dwarf.

    – The Mech-dev program is an appropriately slow burn with a great pay-off. Four minutes completely unrelated to the plot (unless Stilianides begs to differ), but it sets a relaxed tone.

    – I really enjoyed the whole science room scene. A straight-up computer virus is a relatable and credible threat (not everything has to be quantum), and Rimmer has his mojo back.

    – The machines going on strike feels true to early Red Dwarf, or an alternate reality where series one’s limitations were never lifted. This era felt like it was exclusively looking back to the more action-oriented years up to now, and this marks a shift back to the start.

    – Star Trek crap?: I may be projecting, but I suspect Doug’s paraphrasing Shakespeare via Data, who was making the same point.

    – A quick line from Rimmer along the lines of “why not? I’m an electronic life form” would have helped to smooth over the quite implausible leap of him being accepted as a candidate.

    – The observation of machines having already taken over is very astute.

    – I found “killed himself twice” teasingly ambiguous at the time, even accounting for Timeslides, but it does just mean Timeslides. This is the first time I’ve even remembered the whole Nano Rimmer thing since The Beginning.

    – The lazy reuse of the same skeleton clipart works in-universe, so they got away with it.

    – I was getting White Hole vibes even when I’d forgotten the toaster was in it. His return and the archive clips don’t give me any kicks personally, but they are fitting for a long-running series that was possibly (now inevitably) winding down.

    #281268
    Warbodog
    Participant

    M-Corp

    I felt let down by this promising one at the time. It was mainly because of the ending, which still annoys me more than any of the abrupt ones, but there’s enough to make up for that. All things considered, I’ve been seriously underrating it these years.

    – After Cat’s glasses, a running theme of the characters’ ageing is picked up here. Along with the retro callbacks, this adds up to a nicely coherent and varied byte, certainly the strongest since the Grant Naylor years (arguably since VI byte one, if you underrate Rimmerworld).

    – Failing to keep on top of updates and rebooting the ship follows on from Mechocracy’s everyday tech relatability. I’m surprised Doug restrained himself from making Windows gags. Update after unpausing: Oh, there we go!

    – Reusing a Cassandra joke. Well, steal from the best.

    – We see materialisation effects later in the episode, so why are they missing at the start? (Budget? They forgot or got confused?) Making it look the same as the invisibility just risks pointless confusion. Even Steve dematerialises, and I think he’s just some type of hologram (unless he’s not?)

    – Where did the stuff come from and where do they all travel to? Could they be all the way back in the solar system, or more of a nearest-available Waxworld-type deal?

    – The stock invisibility gags are simple and fun. Looking forward to the shrinking episode next. Update: Oh yeah, I forgot.

    – I love Lister’s solitude in series 1 and the novels, that’s some prime Red Dwarf for me, so this is just great. Would’ve liked even more.

    – As someone who’s a bit like Chris Barrie when it comes to technology (among other things), this is my idea of what the modern world is like.

    – The Uncle Frank recap is totally unnecessary. As if anyone this deep in the series hasn’t seen The Last Day, probably plenty of times. There’s no follow-up. This is a great episode, stop it.

    – Charging your lifespan is brilliant. All those fifteen seconds waiting to skip ads when you’re trying to watch Christmas specials on fucking Dailymotion charged at once, without even having to do the waiting.

    – I got a chill when they beamed into a crowded M-Corp, thinking it had been that busy all the time and we’d been oblivious like Lister, but it turned out Lister had just made them.

    – I wondered if Lister was on a spending spree to kill himself, but it turned out he just really wanted all the stuff? My M-Corp was slightly darker.

    – It would have been nice if the de-ageing hadn’t been spoiled by the intro every week.

    – Lister’s brain has a computer virus? I DON’T UNDERSTAND. Doug’s taking the machine/man comparison a bit far.

    – Am I overreacting to the protagonist getting his memory wiped and what sounds like a completely unsatisfactory reconstruction? If it means he gets to say the thing from The End again, who cares, right? I might file this one alongside White Hole in Kryten getting it wrong, he later found a recent backup.

    Ah, fuck it, we’re nearly out of Red Dwarf and this is a really good one, free from anything embarrassing or really crap besides an annoying ending I can work around, I should appreciate it. Best of the Dave era so far!

    #281269
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Skipper

    Fun but lightweight finale. It’s still reassuringly free from anything awful or embarrassing, but not in the stronger half of the year/era conceptually. If I’m giving Backwards and Parallel Universe 5’s, this can’t do better.

    – I thought we’d already read these captain’s reports, but considering how much the continuity had changed even by series IV, who knows where we are in the multiverse now.

    – It’s universe hopping again, but it’s as different from Dimension Jump and Parallel Universe as those are from each other. There are only so many concepts to go around.

    – The cosmological definition of ‘opposite’ is as arbitrary as Only the Good in places, but at least this is actually funny.

    – Mr. Men crap:

    – The unexplained time travel is nothing new, but it feels lazier and more inexplicable than usual.

    – “Nobody’s dead” is very good (even if Arnold is dead?) and justifies Norman’s extended cameo. It would have felt like a missed opportunity if he hadn’t come back, but he’s getting like the Master at this point. Hollister was more welcome.

    – Rat is just a funnier Dog, but it’s the detail of the voice that makes it a classic scene.

    #281276
    Stilianides
    Participant

    The Mech-dev program is an appropriately slow burn with a great pay-off. Four minutes completely unrelated to the plot (unless Stilianides begs to differ), but it sets a relaxed tone.


    Hey, why me? :)
    The opening few minutes of Mechocracy set up Rimmer and Kryten as rivals in the ep and the manipulation idea also returns later on.

    #281277
    Warbodog
    Participant

    #281278
    Stilianides
    Participant
    Mechocracy
    This is one of those episodes where I struggle to think of much to say.
    It’s gently amusing to see Robert sitting silently at the start, and later on Chris gives a nice look to camera during his commercial. That’s about as good as things get for me.
    Rimmer’s depiction reminds me of Meltdown in that he is again a stereotypical villain (a warmonger then, and a lying politician now) who gets his comeuppance at the end.
    I understand the idea of doing a smaller story along the lines of Balance of Power, but I haven’t enjoyed any of the talking machines during the Dave era, so this was never going to be a personal favourite.
    There is a very slow pace and no energy to the abandon ship idea.
    It’s incredibly forced to have Rimmer representing the machines and it’s also not exactly subtle. The speech about walls, in particular.
    Pure fan service to have Talkie Toaster return, but if he was going to come back, Doug really should have written some new jokes. It’s pretty lazy to just repeat the same stuff from 20+ years previously.
    #281281

    While there’s undoubtedly some very good stuff, I feel like the Dave era has always been trying to echo some part of the past. It’s with this final byte of XII that it begins to feel like it has its own identity again. 

    Mechocracy

    Nice opening shot. Rimmer’s impatient patience lesson is very broad and feels a little like a series X opening, but is wonderfully justified by the following scene. Excellent reveal and a very funny idea in general. 

    Initialism alert: “without an SC”.

    The demotion bit is quite funny but I’m not sure it helps the pace of the scene. 

    SOS virus is a pretty good idea, abandoning ship is something they’ve not been done in a while and the reason feels very new. 

    Tampon dispenser gag again. Great. 

    Vending machines on strike is an onboard ship plot for the first time in a while. I’ve always liked this kind of story which really helps me. 

    I know Cat’s vanity is intentionally exaggerated, but glasses being uncool feels very… old fashioned. Particularly as glasses have actually become a big part of fashion in recent years. 

    Red Dwarf has never been subtle with its satire, and the stuff here is reasonably broad, but it’s pretty spot on. 

    Clips from past episodes actually feel relevant here rather than just fanservice, which is very rare for this show. 

    Killed himself… twice! Is superb. 

    So. Talkie. I think this could have been very funny if Lister’s list of foods got more and more ridiculous, but instead it just feels like such a retread. 

    Overall, a couple of weak points, but a pretty funny episode that’s doing something new.

    #281282

    M-Corp

    Glad Lister’s actual age is just alluded to, stops it adding some unnecessary continuity complications. 

    Some lovely cuntiness from Cat and Rimmer following straight after. 

    Chippy is the first time since Epideme that this kind of comedy voiced guest character hasn’t made me angry. 

    The stress of knowing you’re going to die causing a fatal heart attack. Where have we heard that before? 

    God, system updates. How does this work? 

    The M-Corp promotional video conveys the sinister utopia thing incredibly well. 

    A lot of bubble episodes have a gimmick to them, in some ways it’s surprising they never did invisible stuff. It’s all incredibly well done, visually impressive and incredibly funny. The beer is a particular highlight. The isolation is also really effective and adds a level of gravitas largely lacking in this block of episodes. Despite all that, it doesn’t feel like a stylistic throwback to earlier episodes. 

    Surely Rimmer would have been updated by M-Corp? 

    Isn’t the invisibilisation of everything previously in the ship incredibly… dangerous? 

    M-Corp’s actual takeover is one of the less believable dystopian corporations in fiction. It’s sinister and entertaining but typically a bit broad.

    Uncle Frank is an unnecessary callback, although it does lead to a couple of good Cat gags. 

    Red Dwarf runs on Mac OS then. 

    The fire looks so shit. 

    Has anyone counted to see if Lister actually uses 200 words? 

    Old Lister feels like he should have a touch more pathos. Like this is the end of his life or something. The makeup is good. 

    The idea that the corporation is happy to sell you absolutely anything they can is pretty good, but it definitely feels like a somewhat underwhelming ending. It’s now the worst rushed moment in the Dave era, but adds a first draft feeling. Similarly, the Lister’s memory stuff isn’t so convincing and the final scene is a totally unnecessary callback. 

    Really, a very good episode up to the last five minutes. It’s mostly pretty fresh, interesting and funny.

    #281283

    Star Knot

    The set report had me really looking forward to this. For some reason I imagined it was going to be an emotional episode with the characters flirting back and forth through their timelines, which would be a great last episode. 

    I forgot about “help I’m on fire”, funny stuff. 

    Mirror gag not very original but Danny totally sells it. 

    Crew appraisals… good job this wasn’t done eleven series ago. It sets up the second half pretty well though. 

    Rimmer’s dislike of ‘anomaly’ always struck me as a bit odd and out of character. I like ‘anomaling’ though. 

    And now the fun begins. This entire section is, quite easily, the funniest the show has been since V. There’s nothing else to say: it’s absolutely magnificent, a great sci-fi idea and utterly hilarious. Imagine the whole of XII being this funny. 

    Forgetting Ace is really, really awkward. 

    As if Lister wouldn’t leave the universe to get to somewhere with people. 

    “See-ya” wouldn’t be so bad if it didn’t compare so poorly to “people I met”, which in itself I think sums up the differences in the eras. 

    Ah yes, hideousholly.jpg. Monday in a corridor is a pretty good reintroduction for him. 

    Nobody’s dead Arnold can fuck off. Totally unnecessary. This second half is far lower on fanservice callbacks than some people have suggested, but that bit is really terrible. Still nice to see a normally populated Red Dwarf again. 

    VIII Hollister here. Clearly this is the universe that series was set in. 

    Fucking hell Mr. Rat. The second funniest scene in the Dave era in the same episode as the first funniest. 

    Shame the skipper suddenly starts working without needing to recharge. Just one of those awkward moments that really feels like it should have been sorted out in a redraft. 

    Blue Dwarf and then the original model. Superb. 

    I like the idea that Captain Lister is basically our Lister, what would have happened if he hadn’t gone to stasis. 

    The audience actually “aww” when they see the old bunk room. 

    Totally agree with whoever said that Rimmer should have decided to come back because Lister wasn’t with Kochanski rather than jealousy.

    Helium 7 is a nice callback to Timewave, hurray.

    Ending is oddly subdued. 

    Yes, by far my favourite Doug Dwarf episode. The few niggles I’ve mentioned still give it that Dave era ‘not final draft’ feeling at times that stops it from being an all-time favourite, but I’d still place it mid-tier bubble.

    #281309
    Stilianides
    Participant
    M-Corp
    A solid opening scene and a positive that Doug had started to recognize Craig was getting older by now.
    An interesting shirt worn by Lister featuring the crew members.
    I hate the wacky voices used during Doug’s Dwarf for all machines and Chippy is no different. Thankfully it doesn’t last too long.
    “The stress of hearing you’re going to die has caused you to die.” A rip from Cassandra.
    Too many jokes (again) about Cat wishing that Rimmer didn’t exist and a tedious reuse of the old Uncle Frank joke.
    An interesting idea for things to become invisible, but not a lot of comedy at times. It’s understandable that the massive plot holes are there with the contents becoming visible as that is where plenty of the humour comes from.
    Again, the comparisons with the real world are a little heavy handed.
    The rescue of Lister is too quick and easy to provide any drama.
    Pure fan service again with the conclusion and the bubble episodes really have been mined far too many times in the years since.
    Not a classic episode, but the original concepts lift it above the Dave average.
    #281342
    Unrumble
    Participant

    The rescue of Lister is too quick and easy to provide any drama.

    I too can ignore the logical inconsistency of being able to see the beans on toast, for the sake of the visual gag, but the lack of jeopardy and quick resolve of Listers predicament is indeed a bit rubbish. 

    Though it’s far from being the only sci-fi show that has its protagonists aged unnaturally, only to easily roll back the years come the end of the episode (my go-to example is usually the X-Files’ ‘Død Kalm’. At least in that one, they spend a good amount of time making it seem convincing that Mulder & Scully might actually be fucked.) 

    #281343

    – Am I overreacting to the protagonist getting his memory wiped and what sounds like a completely unsatisfactory reconstruction? If it means he gets to say the thing from The End again, who cares, right? I might file this one alongside White Hole in Kryten getting it wrong, he later found a recent backup. 

    He definitely did back up his memory later than 24. He uploaded his memory in Thanks for the Memory, and then Kryten put it on tape in that scene from Bodyswap and it clearly worked for him more than once given he goes through the process twice more in that episode. Can’t think of any more recent examples off the top of my head, but I can see it plausibly being done in other scenarios, such as the extended deep sleep from Psirens (just as a precaution) or pre-AR in Back in the Red.

    #281345
    Ewing
    Participant

    Skipper is one of the top 3 episodes they’ve done since the original 36 episode run. A lot of my love for it has to do with Norman Lovett’s return (male Holly is the secret sauce of the show) but the whole of it is great too.

    #281348
    Warbodog
    Participant

    This discussion has only just made me realise the extent of M-Corp’s ageing anxiety theme, complete with ironic youthed ending. It’s like my English Literature degree is worthless or something. It’s definitely a classic now.

    #281359
    Ewing
    Participant

    Mechocracy, M-Corp, and Skipper is the best three episode run the show has gone on since the golden era of the first six season/series (whichever word you prefer).

    #281387
    Unrumble
    Participant

    Tracks with his self-loathing I guess 

    #281395
    Rudolph
    Participant

    There’s an element to Rimmer that’s become increasingly contrarian and bitterly cynical. Like how he’s gone from considering Shakespeare the Greatest Writer Ever to totally dismissive of his work.

    I like the dynamic more when it’s Lister who’s ignorant of or uninterested in history, politics or culture, and Rimmer is left to defend them. Like now, I can’t imagine Rimmer defending JFK as a liberal icon, and would just make some sneering joke about him shagging Marilyn Monroe instead.

    #281436
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Mechocracy (TOWNEK) – Really good. It’s quite refreshing to have an episode that’s just about internal conflicts on the ship, without any new guest characters (except for the vending machines and Talkie) or external sci-fi phenomena. Fathers & Suns and Dear Dave also went for that angle, but, uh, not to quite the same level of success. This feels like the first true successor to Balance of Power (with an ending that’s about as consequential, though at least Kryten being Machine President wasn’t directly undone at the beginning of M-Corp). The political campaigning story is a lot of fun and, much to our collective relief in 2017, is just general commentary and not specifically joking about Trump or Brexit. It’s a small part of the episode, but Lister bigging Kryten up and calling him “sir” was quite heartwarming, and works for me as (100% accidental) emotional follow-up to Siliconia, where Lister was made more aware of how he’d got used to treating Kryten as a slave. As for The Cat’s glasses subplot, I was initially conflicted about it, but I’ve come down on the side of liking it. It does feel out of character for Gerald “everything I do is cool by definition” Hampton to be so insecure about his looks, but ultimately it feels right that he isn’t totally infallible.

    – Rimmer gives Kryten “4 weeks PD”, so the throwbacks start early. And nobody explains what it means, so if you don’t remember it from Stasis Leak, shrug and just assume it’s bad I guess.

    – I like that Rimmer is totally right for a change with him realising the risk of downloading unknown software to an unquarantined drive, and shows he does have genuinely more knowledge about running a ship than Lister (in some respects anyway). It would have been easy to make Rimmer only claim he knew better once Kryten had verified it was in fact an SOS virus, or if the plot had gone differently you can imagine the joke being that Rimmer was being a paranoid jobsworth and the download was fine.

    – The promotion/demotion interaction is good, but the way it’s staged does make it feel like it was written as part of something else and cut and pasted into this episode. There’s a bit of an emergency going on, guys! Not exactly the time for this aside conversation! It’s the kind of dialogue that would feel more at home after Lister is particularly disrespectful to Rimmer in a bunkroom scene or something.

    – We take the Kryten Walk as a given, but the way Bobby runs out of the room when it’s time to abandon ship is even more joyous.

    – The machines going on strike is a brilliant concept, though it does put all the previous times they’ve abandoned the ship into a harsher light. I think there may have been a vague assumption that the vending machines emulated human personalities, but were not actually fully sapient in the same way that Holly or Kryten are. But I guess the lines were always blurred.

    – Speaking of vending machines… WHERE THE FUCK IS SNACKY, DOUG??? Snacky could have run as a third candidate and won. I believe it.

    – It’s a big one for Cat saying characters’ names, as in this episode he says everyone’s! Guess being blackmailed will make you more personable. And he even calls Rimmer “Rimmsy”.

    – Nice that they remember about Silicon Heaven being an important concept to mechs, although it does make it seem even weirder that it doesn’t come up in Siliconia.

    – I can’t decide whether the election being a dead heat between Kryten and Rimmer is stupidly unlikely, or scarily plausible.

    – Fun to see Talkie back, though maybe not quite as much fun as the studio audience are having. Just doing a quasi-repeat of the White Hole joke of Lister listing lots of bread products instead of something new is definitely disappointing (“Muffins it is. Coming right up.” doesn’t even come close to touching “Ah, so you’re a waffle man!”), but considering there was one other “TT” they could have brought back to be the deciding vote instead, I’ll count my blessings.

    – Kind of sad that they broke their promises to Talkie. Politicians lie and over-promise, obviously, but I feel like Kryten would have at least made some attempt to be good on his word. He might need Talkie’s vote again for the next election! Maybe he brought him up and let him serve people toast after they decided Rimmer had been sufficiently tortured.

    #281440

    TOWNEK

    This One Wouldn’t Need Extra Kleenex

    #281441
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    TOWTSD

    #281453
    Dave
    Participant

    Snacky could have run as a third candidate and won. I believe it.

    SNACKY WUZ ROBBED

    #281457
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    He’s literally a vending machine who uplifted himself and became a time travel engineer. A droid of the people. An icon.

    Invest in Snacky, and he’ll give you the correct change.

    VOTE SNACKY 3,002,708

    #281459
    Dave
    Participant

    #281461
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Excellent. 👍

    #281462
    Formica
    Participant

    Smega-Drive artefacting be damned, in the episode her uniform quite clearly says Barrington. This leaves one of three possibilities:

    – She is wearing the wrong uniform and Rimmer didn’t remark (unlikely, knowing Rimmer)

    – Rimmer called her by the wrong name and she didn’t correct him, likely out of fear (possible, but this reality’s Rimmer doesn’t seem characterized by other inhabitants as a nasty tyrant)

    – Her name is actually Parkinson Barrington. (my favorite)

    #281463
    Unrumble
    Participant

    Smega-Drive artefacting be damned, in the episode her uniform quite clearly says Barrington. This leaves one of three possibilities: 

    What about the possibility that it’s Fiona Barrington?! 

    #281464
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Parkinson is his pet name for her.

    #281465
    Warbodog
    Participant

    #281466
    Dave
    Participant

    Excellent. 

    #281467
    Warbodog
    Participant

    One for the Americans and under-35s.

    #281468
    Stilianides
    Participant
    Skipper
    I think this is one of the stronger episodes of the Dave era, but you wouldn’t know it from the first few minutes.
    Everything about the opening scene is too predictable and it is also too much of a rewrite of stuff from 25+ years previously.
    Then some weird Rimmer dialogue, and Lister altering his photograph is a substandard version of a gag from Series VIII.
    Robert is noticeably struggling as he delivers the “fat guy with a backpack of uranium…” joke.
    The episode picks up appreciably with the Lister and Cat sections and they both play it very well. This whole 5 minutes or so is some of the strongest of Dave Dwarf and it helps that most of it is performed by the two best actors (by this point). It’s the kind of idea that almost no other sitcom could attempt, and it reminds me why I loved the show so much in the first place.
    I find Kryten’s speech about showing off to the Nova 5 crew rather embarrassing to watch.
    Sorry to say it again, but I really wish that Chris was as good an actor as he had been 25 years previously.
    “See ya” is a terrible rewrite of “…people I met.”
    I would enjoy the “Nobody’s dead” scene a lot more if Doug hadn’t already remade so many other classic Dwarf moments. A genuine question, but are there any bubble episodes that haven’t been pilfered for Doug’s Dwarf? 
    It’s still nice to see Norman again (even if the portside joke is dreadful). The make-up/lighting wasn’t as flattering as it might have been and things improved for The Promised Land.
    Mac seems to be playing the Dennis the Donut Boy version of Captain Hollister and the scene looks cheap and is not particularly funny. 
    The Rat section is much more successful, as again Doug is attempting something new rather than relying purely on nostalgia.
    It wouldn’t be a Doug episode if he didn’t ignore his own rules, and Rimmer suddenly can skip between universes with no recharge time needed.
    Quite a solid idea for Rimmer to refuse to live in a world where Lister is more successful. There should be more emotion and more weight at the conclusion, though.
    I wonder whether there was any discussion about Chloe Annett making an appearance.
    Interesting that they didn’t mention this being a quasi-sequel to Dimension Jump at all. They also didn’t acknowledge the huge debt to The Simpsons.
    #281469
    Stilianides
    Participant

    Here is some of the Treehouse of Horror ep that bares plenty of similarities:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1hmiaNReCg

    #281470
    Dave
    Participant

    A genuine question, but are there any bubble episodes that haven’t been pilfered for Doug’s Dwarf?

    I always expected some kind of callback to Parallel Universe, whether it was the female versions or Jim and Bexley or Tongue Tied or whatever, but it doesn’t seem to get referenced much. Maybe it was one of the loose ends that Doug was alluding to for possible future specials?

    #281471
    Unrumble
    Participant

    Sorry to say it again, but I really wish that Chris was as good an actor as he had been 25 years previously.
    “See ya” is a terrible rewrite of “…people I met.”

    These two points are connected, for me. It’s not just that “See ya” pales in comparison, but watching yesterday, knowing it was coming, there was a feeling that it would be partially salvageable if Chris’ delivery was a touch more subtle.

    #281472
    Formica
    Participant

    A genuine question, but are there any bubble episodes that haven’t been pilfered for Doug’s Dwarf?

    I’m sure there are several. Meltdown comes to mind, the only relations to it in Doug Dwarf I can think of at all are:

    – They roll dice in Samsara, just like in Rimmer’s Risk campaign.

    – Light bees are mentioned in Stoke Me a Clipper, Trojan, M-Corp, and The Promised Land.

    – Twentica’s “Pythagoras wasn’t much of a pilot”, seeing as how Pythagorus [sic] was in the episode.

    – Dolphy’s third appearance in Cured.

    – Göring gets a shout in Blue, although Meltdown is neither his first nor his last bubble mention.

    – Wax Droid Theme Park and All Droid Shopping Station both have droid as the second of four words.

    I assume none of these are what you’re referring to. These were unreasonably fun to come up with, though.

    #281473
    Unrumble
    Participant

    Interesting that they didn’t mention this being a quasi-sequel to Dimension Jump at all.

    I know this point has been hammered into the ground on here over the last 5 years, but I still have to say it’s still one of the most baffling choices made, in an era where there’s a few of them. Having already re-appeared twice(ish), Ace is hardly a forgettable one-off character.

    The above almost reads like Doug is deliberately paraphrasing the ending scrawl of Dimension Jump, while omitting any recollection of Ace, just to laugh at us.

    #281474
    Warbodog
    Participant

    I always expected some kind of callback to Parallel Universe

    Not a callback, but Dog and Rat are variations on the same ‘what if.’

    Meltdown comes to mind

    A real stretch, but it’s what I thought of. Could also be Bodyswap, being Rimmer’s chauffeur in IV & V or others.

    #281475

    Better question: is there a Dave era episode that doesn’t have some kind of callback? Prior to Emohawk, callbacks were very rare, usually just there to make a joke (the high ship Pot Noodle, chased by a killer curry). It’s something I noticed in X and sadly seemed to happen even more often in XI and XII. 

    #281476
    Dave
    Participant

    Not a callback, but Dog and Rat are variations on the same ‘what if.’

    Yeah, and I guess Skipper in general just extends the parallel universe concept. Only they’re skipping instead of hopping.

    …hold on a minute, does that mean that the three main parallel universe episodes of Red Dwarf refer to crossing universes as a hop, a skip and a jump?

    #281477
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Prior to Emohawk, callbacks were very rare

    That’s to be expected and basically inevitable as a show runs for longer and longer, especially as a belated revival. There’s only so much completely unique Red Dwarf that the same one or two guys can write, Emohawk made that clear.

    #281478
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    It’s especially odd for a solo Doug episode to suggest that all parallel Rimmers are losers, because it was a solo Doug episode that established there were thousands of heroic Rimmers and that even our Rimmer has the potential to be among them, and Lister himself was the main believer.

    Though admittedly I can relate to wanting to forget that Stoke Me a Clipper happened.

    …hold on a minute, does that mean that the three main parallel universe episodes of Red Dwarf refer to crossing universes as a hop, a skip and a jump?

    Oh!

    From a pure story perspective it’s maybe a stretch to say that Skipper is more of a “main” episode than Ouroboros and Only the Good… (or Stoke, but that’s another jump) but if you replace “main” with “not crap” then it works.

    #281479
    Dave
    Participant

    If we include Ouroboros, then given Kochanski’s attempt to get back to her dimension at the end I guess we could call it a long jump.

    #281480
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Only the Good was a step.

    Back to Earth proposes a skid (but that wasn’t real).

    Ouroboros is a non-space hyperway, so in 1997 you would be said to be surfing that.

    #281481
    SmegHammer
    Participant

    Dolphy’s third appearance in Cured.

    Actually a valid point regarding callbacks as Cured features waxdroids

    If I had a dollar for every time Adolf Hitler was portrayed in Red Dwarf as a waxdroid I’d have 2 dollars. Which isn’t much but it’s weird that it happened twice

    #281482

    Dolphy’s third appearance in Cured.
    Actually a valid point regarding callbacks as Cured features waxdroids
    If I had a dollar for every time Adolf Hitler was portrayed in Red Dwarf as a waxdroid I’d have 2 dollars. Which isn’t much but it’s weird that it happened twice

    I always find it kinda neat that from Timeslides (that also features Hitler) Kryten suggests going to Dallas in 1963, standing behind the grassy knoll and shouting “duck”

    there’s obviously things that are on Doug’s mind that he finds interesting that after some time get done again in other ways 

    #281487
    Formica
    Participant

    Actually a valid point regarding callbacks as Cured features waxdroids

    Were they wax droids in Cured? I thought Telford just hosed down the experimenting droids and gave them a wig.

    #281498

    If we include Ouroboros, then given Kochanski’s attempt to get back to her dimension at the end I guess we could call it a long jump.

    #281502
    Moonlight
    Participant

    Were they wax droids in Cured? I thought Telford just hosed down the experimenting droids and gave them a wig.

    Considering RD has had plenty of human-like droids that aren’t wax droids, I don’t think it’s fair to take for granted that’s what they are. Doubly so considering they were designed to be scientists, not theme park attractions.

    #281503
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Yeah, wax droids were a specific sci-fi extrapolation/gag about Madame Tussauds type historical waxworks. Taking them out of that context would be like randomly bringing back Duane Dibbley or something.

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