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  • #261454
    Spaceworm Jim
    Participant

    As long as they aren’t returning Glenn Miller.

    #261475
    tombow
    Participant

    I just assumed Rimmer got angry with Lister using so much paper once and lectured him on the correct way to wipe with 3 pieces.

    #261476
    Dave
    Participant

    “Polish your arse, m’boy, lickety-split.”

    #261477
    Ridley
    Participant

    “Even it out. Take out the flakey bits.”

    #261593
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    In Backwards, how much are the denizens of the backwards world aware of the nature of their universe? Are they actually perceiving the Dwarfers as being the backwards ones? Is free will even possible if time runs backwards? Is free will in general just an illusion?

    #261594

    It is very much presented like this is just a tape re-winding, so these people have no fucking idea that they’re running backwards or anything. To them it’s normal. And no, they’d have no free will, especially as you could look at a photo/video/newspaper etc and see exactly what you were going to be doing tomorrow/yesterday.

    What is interesting is how the crew are able to perceive things as going backwards. If time, is indeed running in reverse, why is it it doesn’t immediately affect their perspective on things. In the show and the book they are able to grasp that they ought to be going the other way, even though everything else about how their body functions, food, toilet, sex etc runs in the opposite direction. Why is it their minds continue to run “forwards” whilst everything else is “backwards”

    #261595

    It depends on how literal Kryten’s newspaper translation is. Things like being demoted straight to the bottom, roll-off deodorant, etc. all suggest they actually perceive things in kind of the way the Dwarfers do, ie they’re aware of the direction they’re going in. As opposed to the novel version, where they are literally un-learning / un-experiencing everything.

    #261596

    That’s a good point. In that case seeing someone eat an egg is no different to watching someone throw up, which doesn’t sound like entertainment, or even astonishing. Just weird.

    One thing that always slightly annoys me about Backwards, is the fact all the writing is mirrored too. Which also suggests it’s more than a just rewinding of a tape and is actually a very distinct “reverse” universe. A combination of backwards and mirrored.

    #261598

    Some of the letters are the same way round as ours, and others aren’t.

    It’s almost like they didn’t think this through.

    #261599
    si
    Participant

    It’s almost as if a half hour sitcom wanted to throw its audience some amusing things that look silly in reverse without the audience needing to seriously analyse what they’re laughing at.

    #261600
    RunawayTrain
    Participant

    That’s a good point. In that case seeing someone eat an egg is no different to watching someone throw up, which doesn’t sound like entertainment, or even astonishing. Just weird.

    Well, watching someone regurgitate something *whole* would be unusual for us. Considering the reaction the backwards eating got from the real-life audience, as a novelty it evidently does fall into the category of entertainment (not high-brow, certainly, but it did its job) ;)

    #261601
    si
    Participant

    Considering the reaction the backwards eating got from the real-life audience

    If we’re continuing with pedantry hour, it shouldn’t really get a reaction at all – the reaction would be before he’d (‘un’)eaten it.

    #261602
    Dave
    Participant

    The fact they get fired and then go out and do their show (presumably for many nights afterwards) has always bothered me.

    Rimmer and Kryten should be the ones who turn up and see their face on posters and wonder what’s going on, go to the pub and get fired, and then do their first/last show.

    #261603

    Yeah that’s extremely annoying.

    Also, if you think about it (which we are) what actually happens is the crew all arrive together on one Starbug, get separated, Lister and Cat leave without Rimmer and Kryten and then they find another Starbug crashed in the lake and leave in that.

    Or something.

    #261605
    Renegade Rob
    Participant

    I thought the bar manager hired them for real in the dressing room, and “before” that was negotiating a contract with Kryten. “Something about a fight” and “they’ll never work the pub circuit again,” could be interpreted as “Wow that fight we just had was crazy. Anyways, welcome, and good luck, since you don’t seem to have worked the pub circuit before.”

    Also, “after” the bar room brawl, Lister ate the guy’s pie, presumably as a taunt, and the guy punching him was the “last” punch in the rumble.

    Always thought the implication was that it’s fine if there are logical plot holes in terms of backwardness vs. forwardness, since all that can be explained by the fact that there’s an orange swirly rip in spacetime that exposes forward and backward universe to each other and is just there in the sky. Time anomalies are afoot even from the backwards “POV” of the denizens of Backwards Earth, as if the backwards natives were experiencing White Hole shenanigans.

    It would be interesting to see an episode where the reverse happens, where a time hole brings “backwards” space travelers into the forwards world.

    #261606
    Dave
    Participant

    So why does Cat have a shit in the bushes when Starbug is right there?

    #261611
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    There were a fair few stairs to climb. Sometimes it’s just that time-sensitive.

    #261622
    By Jove its holmes
    Participant

    Sometimes you need to pee or poo and you need to do it NOW!

    #261623
    clem
    Participant

    Do we know whether Cat usually uses toilets or a giant litter tray, or what? He has a shit in Rimmer’s wardrobe in Me².

    #261624
    Dave
    Participant

    I suppose Dear Dave suggests he’s graduated to toilets and loo roll by that point.

    #261625
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Why does Cat choose to go and hunch over a freshly laid turd?

    #261626
    Ridley
    Participant

    Maybe it sort of… bounced up there from a freshly buried spot. Presumably the area has the hint of his scent.

    Plus Cat’s poop is probably a layered mousse in a glass with dessert fork and wafer shape or something.

    #261628
    RunawayTrain
    Participant

    From series X:
    Why does Kryten moan that he always knew the human race would let Lister down, that they were never good enough for him? He didn’t know Lister until all others were extinct already.

    Given that humans are extinct apart from Lister, are artificial life forms running JMC? For whom – ALF society?

    How are they able to receive an electronic communication from JMC via the computer about Rimmer’s record?

    Who or what is in charge of budgets and different departments on Red Dwarf? Where would they return the toilet rolls for a refund, and who would give it to them, and what use does the medicomp have for money in the first place? On the ship there are only two humanoids to use the toilet roll, and we know they’re running low on supplies like anaesthetic. I can run with the idea of external trade but I’m not sure how a crew of 4 would justify having different internal departments beyond food, energy, other supplies directly used by organic humanoids, and maintenance. Surely all in the third category would be amalgamated and decided based on need, not budget size.

    I also haven’t quite understood why or how they encounter the M-Corp upgrades in XII – basically the same question as number 3. I have paid attention in that ep, wondering about this, but not for quite a while.

    #261629
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Given that humans are extinct apart from Lister, are artificial life forms running JMC? For whom – ALF society?

    #261630
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Although funnily enough, I stumbled across an old article of mine the other day in which I put forward the theory that all that JMC computer stuff is completely automated, and that it’s always been running in the background, it’s just that previously Holly had been around to countermand it.

    #261631

    Although funnily enough, I stumbled across an old article of mine the other day in which I put forward the theory that all that JMC computer stuff is completely automated, and that it’s always been running in the background, it’s just that previously Holly had been around to countermand it.

    This makes the most sense. Kryten does say “as far as the computer is concerned, we’re just moving things around” or something. The computer is just a basic AI running inventory and accounts on all the stock, so you remove an item it updates the ledgers, you return an item it does the same.

    It has no ill will towards the crew, just that its books need balancing, which gets in the way of the crew just using the supplies.

    It does make sense that Holly would have overwritten all this before, but equally you’d expect him to have just turned all those background processes off.

    It’s one of those things that in reality you could just ignore, but it made for some interesting tv.

    #261632
    By Jove its holmes
    Participant

    If Rimmer can give himself Kochanksi’s form and any other crew would he also be able to give himself the form of the characters from the entertainment films stored on holo discs – perhaps Henry VIII or Casablanca’s Rick Blaine?

    #261633

    Yeah, it’s basically the automated personification of JMC bureaucracy. Now that Holly’s gone, everything has to be done ‘by the book’.

    One thing that does bother me about it is that, up until IX, Holly was the JMC computer. The idea that there were two separate systems running seems a bit odd. But obviously there’s a very practical reason for it, re: Norm.

    In terms of them getting the update, I assume it’s much like the post pod, in that it’s been on its way to meet them for millions of years and finally caught up.

    #261635
    RunawayTrain
    Participant

    Although funnily enough, I stumbled across an old article of mine the other day in which I put forward the theory that all that JMC computer stuff is completely automated, and that it’s always been running in the background, it’s just that previously Holly had been around to countermand it.

    Ah, excellent article! Yes that makes sense that what they now call JMC is the computer.

    (Also, I did not know there was a sitcom called ALF! I do now.)

    Yeah, it’s basically the automated personification of JMC bureaucracy. Now that Holly’s gone, everything has to be done ‘by the book’.

    One thing that does bother me about it is that, up until IX, Holly was the JMC computer. The idea that there were two separate systems running seems a bit odd. But obviously there’s a very practical reason for it, re: Norm.
    In terms of them getting the update, I assume it’s much like the post pod, in that it’s been on its way to meet them for millions of years and finally caught up.

    I sort of see it as Holly (and Gordon, and their equivalents on other ships) being AI overlaid on top of the pure programming of the core computer, if that makes any sense at all. So the computer can run without intervention but for all intents and purposes the personified AI pretty much *is* the computer ordinarily. Sort of like how our brains control all of our automatic functions as well as being our consciousness, and can still keep the automatic processes functioning even if parts that affect our personality and ability to make conscious decisions become damaged or are missing.

    For the updates, do you mean similar to how Star Trek sends messages through subspace – so the signal’s been travelling for all that time and has met up with them? That would make sense.

    #261637
    Dave
    Participant

    Also, I did not know there was a sitcom called ALF! I do now.

    Remember ALF? He’s back, in JMC form.

    #261640
    si
    Participant

    Also, I did not know there was a sitcom called ALF!

    Youngsters today. Do they teach them nothing?

    #261643
    RunawayTrain
    Participant

    Youngsters today. Do they teach them nothing?

    Apparently not! Most of it was literally before my time … but then so was the beginning of Red Dwarf so I guess that’s no excuse ;) I’m going to blame it on growing up without a TV and then no Freeview channel showing it 20+ years later (which is how I got into Star Trek).

    It actually looks quite interesting, hmm.

    #261644
    Ridley
    Participant

    Looking interesting is the best ALF’s got.

    #261646
    Unrumble
    Participant

    Holly (and Gordon, and their equivalents on other ships)

    Awesome his intellect, I tell ya. How come he’s such a genius? Don’t ask me.

    #261717
    By Jove its holmes
    Participant

    OT: it’s only been weeks but I already miss the days when people he’d banned would run to here and say “Who’s a Dictator? Don’t Ask Sebby P., Ask Me!”

    #261996
    tombow
    Participant

    I’ve just been wondering whether Norm’s Holly ever interacted with Bob’s Kryten. I guess it would have had to have been in S8 if they did.

    My auntie had a teddy of Alf but I never really knew what he was. I’m guessing the show was E.T. influenced.

    #261998
    clem
    Participant

    I’ve just been wondering whether Norm’s Holly ever interacted with Bob’s Kryten. I guess it would have had to have been in S8 if they did.

    The only instance I can think of is in Nanarchy, when Kryten welcomes Holly back online. Holly doesn’t recognise him and asks if his face is like that because of a cheap razor.

    #261999
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Nanarchy was the first time. It was a joke about Holly not recognising Kryten because of his senility, which always struck me as odd because these two incarnations of the characters wouldn’t necessarily have recognised each other, even though they are in fact the same characters that knew each other in the episode Kryten and throughout III-V.

    #262000
    RunawayTrain
    Participant

    I’ve just been wondering whether Norm’s Holly ever interacted with Bob’s Kryten. I guess it would have had to have been in S8 if they did.

    The only instance I can think of is in Nanarchy, when Kryten welcomes Holly back online. Holly doesn’t recognise him and asks if his face is like that because of a cheap razor.

    Oh, that made me snorfle – maybe Nanarchy is worth watching again just for that joke.

    #262004
    Dave
    Participant

    Nanarchy was the first time. It was a joke about Holly not recognising Kryten because of his senility, which always struck me as odd because these two incarnations of the characters wouldn’t necessarily have recognised each other, even though they are in fact the same characters that knew each other in the episode Kryten and throughout III-V.

    I always felt the same, the casting issues confuse the joke.

    #262005
    Dave
    Participant

    I’ve just been wondering whether Norm’s Holly ever interacted with Bob’s Kryten. I guess it would have had to have been in S8 if they did.

    On top of Nanarchy there’s also Promised Land.

    #262020
    tombow
    Participant

    actually when I heard that joke it never occurred to me till now that the two Hollys are actually the same.

    #262021
    evilmorwen
    Participant

    I just wondered whether Norm and David Ross’s Kryten even had a scene together and checked. Holly drops out of the narrative – and doesn’t have any more lines – in “Kryten” after they arrive on the Nova 5. But of course there’s that beautiful moment in the cleaning montage.

    #262027
    RunawayTrain
    Participant

    Not an in-universe question, but was there ever a fan edit of Holoship with the cut scenes added back in?

    #262028
    Pete Part Three
    Participant
    #262030
    RunawayTrain
    Participant

    I gave it a go a while back. https://www.ganymede.tv/forums/topic/holoship-xtended/

    Thanks, and the videos are still up! I’ll have a watch later :D

    #262034
    By Jove its holmes
    Participant

    Why doesn’t someone follow Rimmer’s prescription and give Trump two hours of W.O.O.?

    #262035

    If his covid gets any worse that’s basically what his body will do to him anyway

    #262037
    Dave
    Participant

    Where did they get the three gingham dresses from?

    #262038
    By Jove its holmes
    Participant

    it makes sense that there would be a machine that makes clothes on board in case uniforms etc. are damaged.

    #262041
    Dave
    Participant

    Presumably it’s where Rimmer-Lister gets his Captain Emerald costume from too.

    #262072

    The Kinitawowi costumes are the bigger mystery.

    #262073
    tombow
    Participant

    I was idly thinking about why we never see Hudzen mechanoids again. I guess they were all crazy and got discontinued. I was also thinking about the “universe” in Krysis sounding like Morgan Freeman but in the BTL audio novel God sounds like Ricky Tomlinson. I know it was in the game…so I guess that’s just how Rimmer imagines God would sound.

    #262114
    Dave
    Participant

    Well, the very first question in this thread was finally answered on yesterday’s commentary.

    #262120

    Maybe we should be scouring this thread for questions to pose to the guys on Sunday afternoons

    #262193
    evilmorwen
    Participant

    where did Lister’s clothes go when he turned into a chicken?

    #262194

    Clearly Lister wears all organic clothes

    #262476
    evilmorwen
    Participant

    Did a Hudzen 10 turn up to replace Butler on the Nova 3?

    #262480

    He probably charmed him into turning around and going back the way he came.

    #262484
    evilmorwen
    Participant

    Smegging Butler, eh.

    #262492
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Maybe DivaDroid’s Hudzen upgrade scheme only triggers if the mechanoid’s current residence verifiably has actual living people in it.

    Krytens are probably programmed to shut themselves down if they no longer have anyone to serve (thereby ending their contract), and our Kryten only didn’t because he deluded himself into thinking his crewmates were still alive, and Butler broke his programming with the power of self-satisfaction.

    #262497
    Joe
    Participant

    He has him on speed dial. Calls him Hudzy.

    #262507

    the power of self-satisfaction.

    I didn’t think mechanoids could do that. Plastic underpants and a trade mark and all that.

    #262650
    tombow
    Participant

    bit of a random event with only the slightest RD connection. The model who posed for the gothic figure on the front of Black Sabbath’s debut album, long thought lost to time, has recently been discovered to be new age healer/musician Louisa Livingstone. On finding her they have now a funko pop of her character from that cover to celebrate the record’s 50th anniversary.

    https://forbiddenplanet.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/EkJB1vPWAAAfuXI.jpg

    The reason it came to my mind here, is that Chris Barrie’s Motoring Wheel nuts video was filmed at Mapledurham Mill, the same place as appears on the record cover, and some shots have it in the exact same place in the background. Which makes me wonder if it was in the director’s mind at the time.

    #262651

    oooh, I’m not really a Funko Pop guy (though I have the two blink-182 ones) but that looks really cool.

    If they’re doing album covers now, then I want a Janine Lindemulder from blink’s Enema of the State album cover. Please and thank you.

    #262652
    tombow
    Participant

    it seems weird they dont have ones of the actual band. I know there are a couple of Ozzy ones, but the full band in their 70s wizard like stage outfits would be pretty cool. …are there Dwarf funkos? Wow. There are. oh..they’re custom…

    I guess I should hear some blink 182, I’ve always liked US pop punk without really loving it, or without really giving it a chance to sink in. I always enjoy a Green Day, nofx or B182 album for a few minutes then forget to listen to the rest. But most of my friends growing up loved all those bands more than anything.

    #262653
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Funko Pops are shit. If you want Red Dwarf Funko Pops, just take any existing Funko Pop and draw either dreadlocks, an H, fangs or some angular lines on it.

    #262654

    I sort of tend to agree that Funko’s are a bit shit. Though I can also see a charm in them for people that want something to collect.

    tombow – there’s a world of pop-punk out there to explore so give it a go, if you don’t like something more on to the next thing. It’s so varied that one band is often not like the other, especially as it’s a genre spanning 30-40 years now.

    blink are my fav, I’d suggest starting with Enema and then working backwards or forwards, jumping around until if you find something as even with them, most albums are quite different to the last. The only real similarities exist between Enema and Take Off Your Pants and Jacket.

    Same can be said for a lot of Green Day, album to album there’s changes and evolutions etc.

    NOFX you always know what you’re getting.

    #262656
    Dave
    Participant

    oooh, I’m not really a Funko Pop guy (though I have the two blink-182 ones)

    They missed a trick if they’re not called Punko Fops.

    #262667
    GlenTokyo
    Participant

    I sort of tend to agree that Funko’s are a bit shit. Though I can also see a charm in them for people that want something to collect.

    They do make sense for some things, like teen pop culturey stuff, stuff for people who want a collectible but don’t necessarily have the funds or space for stuff like Hot Toys figures or similar “proper” collectibles, but the vast range of seemingly completely unsuitable franchises that get funko’d is just weird.

    It almost undermines the IP when you make a little fat headed figure of it, and they also sometimes kill off any other potential merchandise, I wouldn’t care at all if they also made nice replica props or in proportion figurines too but they usually don’t.

    I have some Funko Pops that people have got me as gifts and while I’m usually a live and let live type, I’ve been looking at them on my shelf for years getting more and more sour on them haha

    They’re poorly made too, I have some other Funko figurines that are more representative of the style of the IPs and they’re great, most of the Funko Pops I have are poorly painted and hunched over because the plastic is crap.

    #262668
    evilmorwen
    Participant

    does the sofa in the bunkroom in Red Dwarf X prove that Gareth Gwenlan was right all along?

    #262669
    si
    Participant

    My brother’s got shelffuls of MCU Funkos. I’m not too bothered, myself, but I have had some Doctor Who ones bought for me for birthdays and Christmas over the past couple of years or so, and I’m pretty fond of them BEKOS THERE FUNI.
    (I’ve got Doctors 4, 12 and 13, plus Sarah Jane in The Hand of Fear, and they’re all quite cute, really.)

    #262670
    RunawayTrain
    Participant

    does the sofa in the bunkroom in Red Dwarf X prove that Gareth Gwenlan was right all along?

    Haha! No French windows though.

    I wonder what he thought of dinnerladies.

    Actually ‘Allo ‘Allo had neither sofa nor French windows as I recall, nor did Dad’s Army, Blackadder, Open All Hours …

    #262671
    tombow
    Participant

    what I don’t get about Funkos is people who just have them piled up unopened so their house just looks like a Funko shop. I guess they’re all planning to sell them some day.

    #262672
    evilmorwen
    Participant

    they’re less ugly if they’re partly obscured by the box, maybe?

    #262673

    what I don’t get about Funkos is people who just have them piled up unopened so their house just looks like a Funko shop. I guess they’re all planning to sell them some day.

    I’m never one about being precious about something and keeping it boxed to resell. I buy something because I want it, not in the hope I can flip it for a few quid in the future (though I do keep the boxes in case I ever do want to offload).

    That said, the two funkos I have are still in the box because the box acts as a mini display case for them, they frame them and provide some info on the person they are supposed to be, which I like.

    #262711
    tombow
    Participant

    are the rival team who appeared in “universe challenge” on rd night still in the fan community?

    #262712
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Not particularly, as far as I’m aware. Steev Rogers used to still come to DJ as fan long after he relinquished his Fan Club duties, but not since the mid-00s. Maybe there’s a feature to be had in tracking them down.

    #262717

    When I was still a lurker here I wondered if any of them posted. I thought they must do, as this was obviously the home of the internet’s Red Dwarf nerds. I was wrong.

    #262720
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    as this was obviously the home of the internet’s Red Dwarf nerds. I was wrong.

    It’s certainly the home for Red Dwarf nerds that (mostly) don’t hate our guts, which is a subtly different thing.

    #262727
    tombow
    Participant

    One thing I’ve been thinking about is that I don’t really get the association with Rimmer liking Hammond Organ music and being uncool, or the genre of players he’s supposed to be into. I associate the Hammond with classic hard rock – Deep Purple, Uriah Heep, The Animals etc.

    #262728
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    I think there was a window in the late 80s/early 90s where a) those very bands were considered a bit naff, before later being either reappraised or forgotten about, and b) the Hammond was more associated with twee easy listening muzak type guff anyway. It’s similarly a source of derision in Lionel Nimrod’s Inexplicable World.

    #262730

    I refuse to believe there was ever a moment in time where Deep Purple were considered “a bit naff”

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