Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Refresh For The Memory: The Promised Land

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  • #281597
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    You asked for it. Alongside the current 35th anniversary poll, the G&T community is just finishing off a big old rewatch, tackling half a series (or one feature length special) per week. This is your designated thread to make notes, share observations and start pondering your rankings.

    This week, we’re watching THE PROMISED LAND. Have at it! And then go and vote, you’ve got no excuse now.

    Previous threads:

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    #281600
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Any ideas or enthusiasm for extending the Red Dwarf Video Club? In a way that doesn’t involve stepping on DwarfCasts / G&TV or just taking our opinions on other shows to a more relevant forum (there but for the grace of God).

    A tour of various Dwarf-influencing / ‘Dwarf-like’ / you-might-also-like things could be interesting, but might be hard to agree on and source everything, and interest would be variable.

    Or picking up where DwarfCasts left off with a byte-by-byte [re]watch of Blackadder, Young Ones, etc, but that’s a bit full-on and off-topic for non-fans (not that detailed analysis is necessary). Maybe it turns out we all feel like watching Community [again] or something.

    #281607
    Warbodog
    Participant

    The End, It Probably Is

    Even before all the Movie kerfuffle, a long-ass Red Dwarf special felt overdue, but then they fucked up Back in the Red, and then Back to Earth was foolishly split too.

    This was the Red Dwarf I really wanted to see after Series X’s retro run and I enjoyed it largely uncritically at the time (taking a break from G&T/internet, even if it was for other reasons). I knew that couldn’t last, but it still holds together very well.

    It’s well plotted and paced for the run time, all four characters have plenty to do (these points help each other out) and it goes to new places while being appropriately self-reflective.

    It’s easily my favourite since 1993. Its length may give it an unfair advantage in the ratings, but it balances those that suffer from being isolated parts. It’s in the big barrel of 7’s that aren’t particular favourites, but I could watch any time.

    Cats: The pet cat gags are okay, even if it feels like overcompensating for a lack of these since… Better Than Life?

    Continuity: The most distracting niggles (how did they find Red Dwarf so easily from wherever they are? How is Cat’s brother still alive?) are explained/dismissed with efficient dialogue later (they salvaged “near light speed” technology; the confusion over Cat looking older, when it should be the other way around to the extreme, means there’s overlapping stasis or time disortion or whatever going on). The deleting memories conversation felt over-familiar by this point, though ironically I couldn’t remember if there was a similar scene between here and Agatha Christie or not.

    Lights: These sets look so much better in natural lighting than drenched in blue. Who could have guessed?

    Music: I know we hate the composer anyway, but the score just sounds like the most generic 2010s blah.

    Action: The movie action sequence when they escape the Iron Star isn’t the sort of thing I watch Red Dwarf for, but they pulled it off well.

    Funniest: Lister’s shitey pun.

    Lister: Probably the most under-served by the special, but he had M-Corp. I appreciate the unfairly maligned Waiting for God getting a sequel, but resurrecting the Cloister arc doesn’t cover any new ground, beyond bringing the cats back.

    Rimmer: The secret star of the special, signified by the closing shot (which I don’t think I noticed the first time). The heroics are a bit cheesy, but the extension cord is fantastic, low power mode is satisfying on multiple levels, and his suicidal gesture, whether serious or mopey, may be his most dramatic moment ever. The bit where he scolded Kryten for not overruling him is the insightful characterisation I’d missed.

    Felix: His jokey tension with Rimmer continues to be a bit tedious, but when it tips into real nastiness, it makes for a great scene. Another funniest moment was Cat immediately regretting his sentimentality and standing with his shipmates at the end, without the coldness of Cured.

    Kryten: Series V’s Kryten with attitude made a welcome return when they’re marooned, before he regrettably goes a bit VII. It’s a small thing, but I would’ve preferred him to pop his own eye out rather than using a spare.

    Holly: Evil Holly feels very much like Pree again, with a nice HAL nod taking it back to the origin. I wasn’t so sure about the backup disk this time, but the reveal of the handwritten label swung it. Red Dwarf’s cheap nostalgic nods are finally aimed in my direction, I won’t be ungrateful.

    Star Trek crap:

    Misc: I don’t normally read the credits, is this the only episode with ‘additional material’ by Richard Naylor? How much does that count as co-writing?

    #281613
    Dave
    Participant

    Any ideas or enthusiasm for extending the Red Dwarf Video Club?

    Could broaden it out to include Dwarf-related stuff like Smeg Ups/Outs, Can’t Smeg Won’t Smeg, Universe Challenge, A-Z, Comedy Connections, The End Original Assembly etc.?

    #281614
    Dave
    Participant

    Star Trek crap:

    Amazing. 

    #281623
    Unrumble
    Participant

    Only watched the first half so far. 

    Regarding the below exchange, Lister’s opening line potentially being a callback to ‘Marooned’ aside, it felt like his subsequent response could be a homage/direct lift from Hitch-Hiker’s.

    “Space is big. Really big. You just won’t believe how vastly hugely mindbogglingly big it is. I mean you may think it’s a long way down the road to the chemist’s, but that’s just peanuts to space.”

    I imagine I’m not the first to notice this.

    #281624
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    It’s extremely kind to both actors to suggest that amount of facial hair would be entirely dark.

    #281631
    Ewing
    Participant

    I need to rewatch TPL but I watched it on back-to-back days when it premiered and I have nothing but glowing memories of it. I think it’s the best Red Dwarf has been since the original 36 episode bubble. However, I’m also biased because I’ve been wanting an episode that addressed the other cat people for at least 25 years. The moment where Cat realizes Lister might actually be God is one of my favorite moments in the entire saga and I can’t say that for anything else in the Dave era.

    #281658
    Stilianides
    Participant

    I was looking forward to rewatching this having not seen it for years. While there are plenty of positives, I found it a struggle to get through and it took me 3 attempts to be able to make it through the entire thing.

    A big issue for me (again) is the broadness of the villains. Some of the strongest bad guys from previous years, such as Denis Lill and Nicholas Ball, didn’t act like they were in a sitcom and the show was better for it. The vegan knife/lettuce scene is the worst offender.

    Veganism is one dated idea, and sex changes is another. Not that I consider the way that it was dealt with to be remotely offensive, but it is a comedy idea from decades earlier.

    I don’t want to sound entirely negative, though, as it’s nice to have Norman back and his makeup looks better than in XII. 

    The moonlight idea also works better than so much of Doug’s Rimmer writing. I think that’s partly because throughout his solo Dwarf, including the novel, Doug has seemed so much more comfortable writing about Lister. In this scene he is writing about Rimmer from Lister’s perspective which is much more successful than all of the family and school stuff of the previous few series.

    #281659
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Rob does the Rimmer, Doug does the Lister.

    I still enjoyed the gag, but mostly for the contrivance.

    #281663
    RunawayTrain
    Participant

    I think the main niggle for me is the overacting/overgesturing and the overeager audience (I can’t blame them though!  Very understandable) near the beginning, particularly in the science lab scenes.  It sort of felt like a stage show at times, conscious of the audience.  However once it got going after Holly’s reboot it all settled down and felt right again.  I loved how it was left, the Cat knows he’s home, and so are the others – they all need each other really. 

    Rimmer’s power problems struck me as a good metaphor (albeit unintended) for energy-limiting chronic illness.  With the extension leads it works for what’s considered mild illness, able to do most normal things but always very much hindered and needing to accommodate it, then the low power mode for more severe illness when you’re much more restricted – along with all the feelings of uselessness.  [A shame ELCIs don’t have the equivalent of an Anubis Stone!  Most of us would settle for just a battery back to near-normal capacity though ;) ]

    Rimmer worship by the cats aside, TPL seems like redemption for Rimmer.  After all his annoying traits and often self-centred nature, he *is* fundamentally decent, willing to sacrifice himself for others, even if he might not like it (grumbling about giving up Diamond Light).

    At the time I remember thinking that if that was the end of Red Dwarf, it was a good way to go.  Now that looks even more likely, and I still think it was a fitting end.  Not perfect, with the bumpy beginning on RD and lack of Howard Goodall, but really rather good.  Great callbacks, and I loved the cats being cats, just as The Cat was in the early series. 

    8.5/10, for me, though I don’t suppose the poll allows for decimals! 

    #281677
    SmegHammer
    Participant

    TPL is fantastic but my biggest problem with it was that Cat barely interacts with his fellow cats. I’d have liked to have seen him a little more emotionally involved with the plot. He seems such a passive character

    I know, this is a sitcom, why are we talking about emotionally involved, this isn’t Back to Earth?

    But it was a long enough special, it had space for a bit of that 

    #281726
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    The Promised Land – A fantastic special. Whether I consider it the best of the Dave era over Give & Take and M-Corp changes depending on my mood, but it’s always a contender, and it holds its own against the ‘bubble’ era too. While it’s not all perfect (the sex change conversation and the vegan forks being the obvious points of contention), I feel it really nails all the characters, has a great balance between the comedy and the drama, and is paced really well. It’s a relatively simple story with a luxurious 90 minute running time, but this just allows the scenes to breathe and not be under pressure for there to be a joke every 5 seconds, so it works. Despite the minor disappointment of The Cat himself not having more of a role, it’s wonderful to finally get a proper follow-up on the cat people, and have it to be this major. Along with the addressing of Rimmer’s status as “not real”, it gives it a nice bookend quality. Peanut, Luna and Sol are fun to have around, Holly is well used and is back on form (in contrast to Skipper, where he was good but not quite there), the Kryten subplot with him needing a service was well threaded (especially with his costume design hinting towards it), and Rodon is a solid villiain too. I disagree with the suggestion that Rodon is too silly. He’s over the top and pulpy, yes, but that’s not the same as being silly. We’re definitely more in the realm of The Inquisitor than 4 of 27 here.

    – Count Ludo, despite being the right hand man of Rodon, refers to Cloister as “the holy one”. Is this a sign he still believes, and that’s why he’s so hesitant to take the Anubis Stone away from Lister later, or is calling him that just force of habit amongst felis sapiens?

    – Between the cat flap doors, the laser pointers, the cat toys and the scratching post, I’m surprised that there were that many cat based things left for Doug to mine. Some might say these inclusions are too silly, but I like the fact that they tie into the feral cats’ whole aesthetic of going back to a more ‘primal’ state. Even though obviously Rodon would reject the original context of being a pet.

    – The sex change conversation is already weird before the sex change itself is even mentioned, because of the weird focus on the idea that Lister has a responsibility to have children (not mentioning Jim and Bexley, of course), making its return from BtE and Series X. Yet again they neglect to mention the amount of incest that would be required to sustain the new human race beyond one generation, or whether Red Dwarf has the resources to even keep them alive. Also, it’s worth saying that even if this is more about Lister personally than the human race as a whole, “because I’m depressed” is not a good reason to have more children.

    – One good thing is confirmed, at least – if Lister still needs to have more children to continue the human race, then the “if I’m my own father, the human race will never go extinct” point from Ouroboros was in fact total bollocks.

    – Once the conversation moves on to the idea of the sex change, it’s pretty awkward, but at least it’s short, and hearing Cat and Lister argue about who would make the hottest woman is kind of funny. Plus, although they don’t exactly describe it in progressive terms, it’s heartening to know how far along SRS tech has come by the 23rd/24th century, and how uncontroversial it is. Not only are trans women giving birth in the future, but the operation is simple enough for a cleaning robot to carry out. On top of that, Kryten is able to make homo sapiens and felis sapiens (a species which wouldn’t even exist until many millennia after his creation) genetically compatible for procreation purposes, despite being unable to make a kidney transplant viable without help from an even more advanced robot.

    – More clues for the “they already found Kochanski and sent her home” theory – Kryten considers “think of ways to convince Lister and The Cat to fuck each other” a higher priority mission than “find Kochanski”.

    – I’m still firmly on the ‘pro’ side of the floppy disk gag, and if anything I like it even more now that I caught the detail that they found it while searching through Lister’s junk. As if an object that size would require searching.

    – I call BS on rebooted Holly’s apprently logical conclusion that he doesn’t need to keep Lister alive because he forfeited his rights by bringing an unquarantined animal aboard. He served his sentence for that 6 million times already, and even if he hadn’t, criminals aren’t meant to lose their right to life. If the corporate Red Dwarf future were that bad, surely Holly would have decommissioned the ship after the radiation leak happened to begin with. So all told I think this Holly is just a prick. Maybe the backup disc is v 1.0 and Holly in The End had had a few upgrades to work out these “reasoning in favour of deliberately killing the crew” bugs.

    – Holly talked a big game, but he still hasn’t decommissioned Red Dwarf 3 months later. Maybe he did deactivate all the functions that aren’t needed to keep the ship moving, and the nearest black hole is just really far away.

    – Funny that one of the bells and whistles of the Iron Star is that it can sustain multiple holograms, given that Red Dwarf has also been shown to do that, as well as Starbug and Blue Midget being able to sustain Rimmer on their own, and Rimmer being able to sustain himself apart from any ship. Still, I guess the IS can do it without any caveats or conditions, even if it’s a way off from the Englightenment.

    – I know it’s just that they didn’t have it anymore, but it’s still a shame that the “going through the gears” scene wasn’t able to include Rimmer’s Series V outfit.

    – Diamond light can turn solid objects into light and back again, so it’s essentially magic. OK, Iron Star, that one is impressive.

    – I enjoy Mighty Light’s look, but I can’t decide whether those flashing shoes are naff in a good way or a bad way.

    – It was a good touch for them to have Rimmer’s hologrammic life in peril specifically when they’re estranged from Red Dwarf and so presumably wouldn’t be able to restore him from a backup. It’s undermined a lot of the previous “Rimmer in peril” scenes to know in the back of my head that he’s rarely in true danger.

    – I like that Lister does at least try to set the record straight with the cats immediately, rather than going straight into the cliche of keeping up the charade to spare their feelings. It feels more in character for Lister at this stage to be more up front. Granted, they don’t believe him and he gets cajoled by Kryten into doing the cliche anyway, but getting there in this way feels less awkward.

    – To do this day I’m still baffled by the decision to name a holy relic of the cats “The Anubis Stone”. It’s an understandable mix-up, but it seems weird that it wouldn’t get caught in the age of the internet. And it doesn’t feel deliberate, because the fact that it’s named wrong isn’t made into a joke, and even Kryten desn’t realise.

    – It’s unfortunate they didn’t think to bring bazookoids onto the Iron Star. Perhaps they neglected to make sure Starbug 19 had them.

    – Kryten and Lister showed some amazing skill with the way they threw that lettuce. Try throwing someone a lettuce leaf from across the room sometime. I bet it’s not so easy.

    – “You could have just used a fire extinguisher” was a bit of a weak gag, because it’s clear that this fire was too big for that to work, so Lister did do the correct thing.

    – Enjoyable foreshadowing for The Cat to gain a puffer jacket after the time jump, even if him using the parachute doesn’t actually make a difference in the end. Given his outfit is the same underneath and knowing his character, I can only imagine how desperate he felt. Though it is funny that he did that while just not bothering to shave at all.

    – Sol calling Lister “HP”. Because it wouldn’t be solo Doug Dwarf without unnecessary initialisms.

    – I really appreciate how after Cat goes a bit too far with his mocking of Rimmer in his new black and white/mono form, Lister sincrely tells him to back off. It would have been easy to just write everyone as just going all in with the jokes about him, as Rimmer is so often the punching bag, but this shows that Lister does genuinely care about Rimmer and can tell that this is majorly crossing a line into cruelty.

    – The moonlight scene. Goddamn, it’s still so good. Not much more I can add on it, other than to note how stark a contrast it is with the “see ya!” Rimmer of Skipper, the last episode before this one. I’m so glad that Doug realised how much earnestly emotional scenes like this make the show what it is, and understood that the presence of them wasn’t what was wrong with Series VII or BtE. And that both Craig Charles and Chris Barrie were able to bring their A games to perform it.

    – So Starbug was travelling for 3 months, and yet Red Dwarf is still within both communication and torpedo range. I can only assume that they happened to be travelling in the direction of the nearest black hole.

    – The reveal that Rodon is The Cat’s brother is pretty under-baked, and Felix’s whole “since that day I swore to never be uncool again!” motivation feels kind of shallow and obvious, but his insistence that Red Dwarf is his home still works for me. It does contradict what the cat priest said, but let’s just say he was confused or misremembering things. You’d also think that Rodon would be long dead by now, but I guess you can handwave that away by saying they went into stasis or fell into a wormhole or something.

    – The way the ultimately defeat Rodon is pretty weird (after the much better Might Light bomb disposal stuff with the moonlight callback, and before the other much better ending details). The laser pointer was set up, so I guess this is the pay off, but still. Maybe it would have worked better if the pilots were so distracted by the laser that they crashed accidentally, and that was the whole manouvre, but the other cats turning on Rodon seems to come from nowhere. Not a big deal, but it is strange.

    Whoa, so that’s the whole of Refresh for the Memory done! Although it wasn’t intended as a finale, The Promised Land is possibly as good a one as we’d be likely to get, so I’m grateful that it happened. And it’s been very cool to rewatch and discuss the whole show at around the same time as a lot of you folks.

    Now, what’s this coral thing everyone’s been talking about…

    #281728
    Dave
    Participant

    Yet again they neglect to mention the amount of incest that would be required to sustain the new human race beyond one generation

    #281729
    Warbodog
    Participant

    And it’s been very cool to rewatch and discuss the whole show at around the same time as a lot of you folks.

    I wouldn’t normally bother rewatching parts of a series I don’t like (or having more than ‘RED DWAR’ on the shelf), but the big Three Five felt like the right time to give this show that tribute, I’d been thinking about a survey-excuse rewatch for a while before pretending to casually suggest it. And it’s been great reading along with all these fan blogs, with their distinctive personalities and quirks, which even made the shit stretches enjoyable, in a way.

    #281731
    Unrumble
    Participant

    Despite the minor disappointment of The Cat himself not having more of a role, it’s wonderful to finally get a proper follow-up on the cat people, and have it to be this major. 

    His lack of reaction to encountering other cats after all this time does strike an odd note.

    But also, given how sex-obsessed he’s been over the years, and the lust we’ve seen him display toward human females, shouldn’t he have been constantly trying it on with the 2 cat women? Maybe their religious fanaticism is that much of a turn-off, or his libido has been somewhat reduced since his polymorph-deflowering. 

    #281736
    Formica
    Participant

    Perhaps he’s just not interested unless she’s got a pipe. So I suppose Cat’s a chaser now?

    #281750
    Rudolph
    Participant

    I think it’s a nice detail with Peanut, Sol and Luna to be dressed like Lister – big fur hats, leather coats, black-and-brown striped shirts – but that’s Lister’s look from III – V. Still, they’d probably have looked silly in his I – II Hawaiian shirts.

    #281752
    Unrumble
    Participant

    Maybe matching Mugs Murphy tattoos would’ve been a good detail 

    #281753
    Formica
    Participant

    Would’ve been a sweet nod to nostalgia for them each to have a bollock hanging out.

    #281762
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I guess the retcon is that Lister’s iconic leather jacket and hat combo has always been a fixture in his wardrobe. It’s just that by sheer coincide all the times we see him in Series 1 and 2 he’s wearing something else.

    #281764
    Warbodog
    Participant

    I guess the retcon is that Lister’s iconic leather jacket and hat combo has always been a fixture in his wardrobe.

    A tribute to early 90s RD/Smegazine retcontinuity.
    Is the ‘going through the gears’ scene the only time Red Dwarf explicitly shows series 1-2 and 3+ versions of a costume together as the same continuity? (Mechocracy clips maybe?)

    Retro nods normally have to choose a side (Munchkin song, resurrected crew, Skipper).

    #281765
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Oh for the record I definitely meant to type “coincidence”. Must have got distracted.

    #281779

    Opening on a dramatic recap of The End is a bold move. I suppose it works well for the type of episode it is. 

    Cat face fleet is a fun silly gag. 

    Genuinely love the catflap. Feels like the sort of joke I should hate but it’s really, really good. 

    Cloister pictures are the kind of callback that work well rather than feeling crowbarred in like some of the other Dave era stuff. 

    Laser pen is fun. We haven’t had much cats acting like cats in ages and it’s a nice return that makes sense given that they’ve not been around humans like our friend Felix. 

    Fucking Om song again. Leave it alone. 

    Sex change stuff. Stripped of context, it’s quite an amusing routine with some good gags. I also like that they both embrace the idea to the extent that they get competitive about it. But it’s just… unnecessary and taps into a particular contemporary issue that makes it very uncomfortable.

    Musical sting while Kryten and Rimmer walk down a corridor is weird. 

    Chris continues the improvement in his performance. There’s still some hamming it up in his longer speeches, but some of this actually feels like Rimmer again. 

    Giant floppy disk gag is ridiculous. It doesn’t work. Holly fitting on a standard floppy would be gag, but this is just… no. And then a dialup modem joke, which is obviously how floppy disks work. 

    Holly deactivating the ship is basically a cross between Queeg and Pree. 

    Lister’s very keen on making the Iron Star his new home for someone who started the episode obsessively going through all the stuff on Red Dwarf with a worrying amount of nostalgia. 

    The diamond light stuff is very good. We haven’t had any hologram stuff for a while, but it gives Rimmer a chance to do something different, but the cable is also a very funny way of explaining the horrific nature of being a hologram.

    The namby-pamby Euro-friendly safety test feels very… er, Chris. 

    Past Rimmer costumes are pretty fanservicey but at least have a purpose. 

    “Listening to me” is my first big laugh of the episode. It’s all very good plot stuff and mildly amusing to this point, but not exactly hilarious. 

    Not keen on the addition of curry to the Cloister myth, especially Holy Poppadom. 

    Anubis stuff is such an awkward and bizarre error. 

    Cat’s complete disinterest and lack of interaction with the other cats is also awkward and bizarre. 

    The cat aide is a very Doug Dwarf character, a cowardly and somewhat ineffectual villain.

    The scooting of the cats into the midsection and shutting the door behind them feels like a fair summation of how Doug didn’t quite know what to do with them. 

    Just realised how nice it is to see the Starbug cockpit in full colour and lighting. 

    It feels like the comedy steps up a gear in the second half. Danny does the Lister song and dance pretty well, and I love the lost penis story. Also love Craig corpsing at Chris. 

    Cat’s takedown of Rimmer’s self is probably the nastiest he’s ever been, and I love that Lister tells him to back off. A lovely moment with more emotion than XI and XII combined. 

    Rimmer questioning his existence and offering to then himself off followed by Lister convincing him not to is basically a complete reversal of the characters’ status quo from series 1, and it feels totally natural, which is testament to the evolution of the show. It also feels very bubble-ish in tone. Kryten’s nod is a perfect comedy interlude that manages not to derail the scene while being very funny.

    Oh right yeah, the cats. Forgot about them. 

    Rimmer remembering the Holly backup drive is a touch convenient at this point. 

    God this Holly scene is brilliant. Norman is absolutely on form here (although he’s trying not to corpse throughout), and Doug’s given the character its funniest dialogue since IV. “Oh no, I missed” is particularly brilliant. 

    Rodon is a very good villain who’s played straight, which is a refreshing change. 

    “Second in charge” is a lovely comment from Rimmer and a very rare example of him being nice to Lister, which works well after the moonlight scene. 

    I used to hate the reveal that Rodon is Cat’s brother, felt it unnecessarily complicated the storyline, but actually it suits the tone of that scene really well. 

    Even Cat being upset at Rimmer’s apparent death is a lovely moment. And Rimmer does make a sacrifice of sorts at the end, which is very satisfying. 

    There are definitely a few issues there – mostly the cats not really integrating with the rest of the plot, and our Cat’s total disinterest in finding the rest of his species – and I do think it’s a bit too long. I’d probably cut the first half down to a much tighter 25 minutes, and the second half about 35, to make an hour long special. But, for the most part, the writing and performances lack the regular cringey moments that have plagued all past Doug Dwarf. It uses the length to satisfactorily combine the actiony sci-fi that VII leant into, the excellent dramatic side of BtE and, in the second half particularly, the excellent humour of the second half of XII. The callbacks are generally underplayed in comparison with most of the Dave era, and it has more genuine heart than possibly any other episode. 

    On the whole, it’s very good and, should the GNP situation and Chris’s awfulness not sabotage the future of the show, it bodes well for any future specials. If it is the last episode, then the show has gone out on the peak of the post-Rob era, and on a happy ending for all characters, especially Rimmer, which is all one could hope for. 

    #281828
    Jenuall
    Participant

    Regarding the copying of Lister’s look by the Cats – to be fair although it’s a different one to the iconic look, he does wear a leather hat at least once in Series II:


    So yeah, it’s not out of the question that he might have dressed more like how we see them copying in his pre-accident times and so that’s what the Cat people are copying. Although how much record there would have been of this and exactly how the Cats came to know about it is unclear – was it all just knowledge passed meown from Frankenstein? Did the Cat’s somehow have access to pictures of Lister? Did they root about through his stuff at some point? (unsure how if they were “safely sealed in the hold”…)

    #281829

    Although how much record there would have been of this and exactly how the Cats came to know about it is unclear – was it all just knowledge passed meown from Frankenstein? Did the Cat’s somehow have access to pictures of Lister? Did they root about through his stuff at some point? (unsure how if they were “safely sealed in the hold”…)

    The crew keep their lock-ups in the hold and Lister never bothered to put a lock on his.

    #281842

    To be fair, the entire Cloister idea revolves around Frankenstein being sentient enough to comprehend what was going on and pass it on to her young. 

    #281843
    Warbodog
    Participant

    To be fair, the entire Cloister idea revolves around Frankenstein being sentient enough to comprehend what was going on and pass it on to her young. 

    Yet again they neglect to mention the amount of incest that would be required to sustain the new human race beyond one generation

    Start to finish, Doug’s objective for the whole show was normalising incest.

    #281844
    Dave
    Participant

    #281845
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Edit: Just remembered that Cat did try to have sex with his mother in the novel.

    #281846
    Jenuall
    Participant

    I’m sure if Doug had his way then RImmer would have got intimate with more than just uncle Frank

    #281850

    #281852

    I’m sure if Doug had his way then RImmer would have got intimate with more than just uncle Frank

    I think most people have always assumed that Uncle Frank was either Rimmer’s dad’s brother, an uncle through marriage, or just a friend of the family. But now it seems more likely that he was Rimmer’s mum’s brother, hoping for a quick bit of incest. 

    Rimmer himself was of course anticipating a shag with his cousin, which seems quite tame by Red Dwarf standards. 

    #281854
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Rimmer himself was of course anticipating a shag with his cousin, which seems quite tame by Red Dwarf standards. 

    He fantasised about marrying his mother on the rebound from his sister-in-law in the BTL book.

    #281857
    Jenuall
    Participant

    #281859
    clem
    Participant

    #281860
    Warbodog
    Participant

    #281861
    Jenuall
    Participant

    Bit of a typo to correct on the old SmegaDrive there “possiblility” unless of course it’s intending to indicate the inebriated nature of Arnie?!

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