John Hoare

[John Hoare]

> ?What?s an iguana?? is a quite funny line, well-delivered by Craig.

I concur.

The strange thing here, of course, is that I think The End is far better than you do!

Truth be told, I don’t really cringe at the line. I probably overstated my case somewhat – I hadn’t seen Series 1 in a while, and when I watched it again, it didn’t really bother me that much. It’s a throwaway line that doesn’t work for me, and I’d built it up in my head.

But I don’t find it funny, and it does sit awkwardly with me in a way that very little of Series 1 does. It just doesn’t feel right. It’s just a weak “Lister’s stupid” joke that just doesn’t work for me.

I think the timing is off as well, though. I wonder if a cutaway to a reaction shot of Rimmer after the line might improve it…

[John Hoare]

I?m not keen on the flashback scene at all, I?m afraid. The set and costumes are beautiful, but? well, what can I say? It just doesn?t make me laugh. At all. It feels like a recreation of the Lister/Rimmer relationship of Series 1, but devoid of all the things that actually makes me laugh at it. Sure, VIII has exactly the same problem – and again, I’m only defending it as compared to VII, rather than on its own terms – but it at least has more utterly stupid jokes that I can at least laugh at in a different way.

I don?t think the first bunkroom scene in The End is the best thing Rob and Doug have written either, mind you. But it makes me smile – probably because it’s got the context of the rest of the episode backing it up. And the first part of it to do with the exams is quite good.

[John Hoare]

My God.

[John Hoare]

Andrew says some interesting things about the Lister/Rimmer relationship in VIII in this Down Time article. I don’t agree with all the article, but I think the friendship stuff is spot on.

Personally, I don’t care that they become more friendly – indeed, I think that’s what *would* happen. But they’re hardly at each other’s throats all the time anyway in previous series – I love their relationship in The Last Day, for instance, and that’s not antagonistic at all.

[John Hoare]

Ian had the Gunmen theme for his ringtone at one point, which I sadly thought was pretty cool.

[John Hoare]

lol random

[John Hoare]

It *is* a good line. But by that time, the episode has stretched my patience so much that it loses any impact for me.

It’s not my favourite VII joke either, by a long way – that goes to Kryten in Blue:

“Sorry, sir! Wrong disk – that was my German language course; an extract from Hitler’s Nuremburg speech. Definitely hypnotic, but not in the right way.”

That is just a superb line. It’s the kind of line that just makes me stand back in sheer admiration for how clever it is. Something incredibly rare in VII for me, sadly.

But no, Ouroboros does nothing for me. There’s the very occasional good bit – the set for the recreation of Red Dwarf is fantastic, and I love the costumes too – but… well, I just couldn’t get through writing the Xtended differences article on it. It just depressed me far too much. I don’t find it in the slightest bit amusing.

Pete 2 at least makes me laugh before the 25 minute mark. And more than once.

[John Hoare]

Yeah, here’s that previous article. But yeah, I always assumed that the continuity was revised, and Rimmer *wasn’t* guilty – but now I think that it he is still guilty, and it’s simply Kryten getting him off.

There’s one thing I *will* say, though – nowhere in Justice do any of the Dwarfers say specifically that Rimmer is guilty. Which strikes me as an odd omission. It’s left slightly ambiguous, either by accident or design.

[John Hoare]

Oh yeah, one thing I forgot to mention:

Pete Pt. 2? Mac is good in it.

Mac McDonald is *fantastic* in VIII. He provides a lot of my favourite moments in the series. Him backing out of the toilet spraying air freshener is the funniest thing in Back in the Red for me. And I don’t mean that snidely – it’s really, really funny.

[John Hoare]

When I’m back on the case with G&T stuff, we’ll have a go.

Seb actually likes Ouroboros as well. And Cappsy has said in this thread that he’s beginning to like VII more. The episode is by no means universally hated round here, which perhaps isn’t something you’d expect…

[John Hoare]

Maybe we should get together and write a Love/Hate article, Phil…

[John Hoare]

But I can hardly get through VII/VIII episodes without wishing I?d decided to put something else on.

I think it’s probably important to note that whenever I defend VIII, it’s mainly by stating it’s better than VII. Which I honestly believe – I think it’s miles, miles better than VII. But I can’t really defend it as a good sitcom series in its own right. Sure, it’s better than The Crouches, but then so are anal warts.

Anyway, I very much disagree that VI feels like a parody. And whilst it certainly feels different, I don’t feel the writers are talking down to the audience at all. Sure, Back To Reality and Psirens are very different shows, but Psirens is always going to suffer against possibly one of the best episodes of Dwarf ever made.

Although actually, whilst I don’t think it’s the better episode – the plot and characterisation are nowhere near as good – I think Psirens is definitely the funnier episode. Which counts for a lot in a comedy series…

[John Hoare]

I think, in all honesty, Pete 2 gets a bad rap for being the worst Dwarf ep. I’d put more than half of VII as worse – every ep apart Tikka, Stoke, and Blue, really, and the latter two are borderline. (Blue only gets in there because of The Rimmer Experience – the best realised part of the entirety of VII/VIII – and Stoke… well, I’ve never been that keen on it as an episode, really. But that’s a discussion for another time.)

Pete 2 has some good jokes and moments, whilst also having a lot of appalling stuff. (“The whole hog? Like it wasn’t hard enough getting the whole cow.” Oh, go away. I’d prefer Lister to start asking what the fuck an iguana was again.) But stuff like Ouroboros and Epideme I find pretty much unwatchable, with very little to recommend them. I really *don’t* think they succeed at what they’re trying to do – which is be funny, and do interesting character stuff. Wheras VIII, whilst having lots of embarrassing stuff, still has a sense of *fun* and good-naturedness about it which VII lacks. And just plain more funny moments. (“LOOK AFTER IT!”)

Get me drunk, or in a *really* good mood, and I can sometimes forgive VIII’s many, many shortcomings, and concentrate on the good bits. But VII usually has me shouting at the screen within five minutes. Especially if I’m drunk.

[John Hoare]

It’s like a big weeping scab that I can’t stop picking at.

[John Hoare]

Actually, I?ve been thinking about all this a bit recently, and I think it?d make a great topic for a DwarfCast discussion forum. I think we have a decent split between us? one for the next time we?re all together, anyway.

Oooh, yes! Have it all out once and for all. I think with all of us, there’s at least enough of a difference of opinion to make it worthwhile. And the Tikka Xtended one worked well.

Also: FIX YOUR COMPUTER.

[John Hoare]

MUST… RESIST… URGE… TO… START… VII/VIII… ARGUMENT…

If anyone wants me, I’ll be taking a cold shower in liquid oxygen.

[John Hoare]

Dead Ringers annoys me – because I *should* like it. The obsession with TV idents and presentation, the fact it’s big and colourful… But the material is SO weak, and John Culshaw is SO annoying, that I just can’t watch it.

[John Hoare]

I agree with every single one of those five good bits. Especially five, which I agree is absolutely the best bit of the episode. It’s stuff like this that means I generally prefer VIII to VII. You can usually find similar good bits in VIII eps, wheras it’s a *lot* harder in the majority of VII. (But not impossible. “Listen you stupid jumped up son of a…”)

I’ve always hated the Rimmer-shaped blur line, though, for some reason.

[John Hoare]

“hideous Carry On series”? Gah, that’s a shame. I won’t let it affect my opinion of the guy – he was still amazing – but it’s always a shame to hear someone you love slag off something else you love, especially if they were in it. The Carry Ons were great, at least until near the end, but specifically, Carry On Cowboy is a brilliant, brilliant film – really well made and funny. Even Kenneth Williams liked it in his diaries, and he slagged them off most of the time too!

Mind you, it’s not quite as disturbing as reading that Rob Grant likes Dead Ringers.

[John Hoare]

Oh, undoubtedly. I suppose when I say original concept, I really mean nothing more than a “40-something Lister”, rather than a “young cool black guy in his mid-20s” – nothing more specific than that. The character certainly wouldn’t have the be exactly the same as in the pilot script – just that you *could* adapt to fit Craig’s age.

[John Hoare]

It?s a nice enough idea to reboot and go with the original Lister concept but we have no indication if that would be anywhere near as popular.

That’s certainly true. But at this point, we can’t go back in time and get a younger Craig Charles. You either have to recast and find a younger Lister, or get Craig Charles back in and adapt the character and go with the original concept.

And I’d prefer the latter.

[John Hoare]

Now fixed. A problem with our systems – we can see even unpublished stuff, so sometimes we forget to select ‘Published’ on the system so everyone else can see it…

We’ll put out a call for more stuff to add to the Print Archive at some point – but if anyone has any scans handy, then get in contact.

[John Hoare]

It is utterly great – such a beautifully made show. If only something like it would be made now…

Arlene – you should check out Pertwee’s performance in Carry On Cowboy. He’s only in it for ten minutes or so, but it’s the best performance of the film. Just wonderful. (And the rest of the film is great too, so well worth getting anyway.)

[John Hoare]

I fucking love The Parting of the Ways. What didn’t you like about it?

I agree that the Nestene Consciousness stuff in Rose isn’t brilliant – not bad in any way, just not brilliant – but, then, the Nestene stuff isn’t really the heart of Rose at all. It’s not the important bit of the episode. The important it is stuff like:

“Well, it might do you good. That shop was giving you airs and graces.”

[John Hoare]

What happened to the links menu, btw?

The Quick Links? I got rid of it to simplify the right-hand navbar. You could well argue that the Quick Links are a lot more important than the Who’s New list, but, erm… I really like the Who’s New bit, for some reason.

Anyway, if people want the Quick Links back, I’m more than happy to stick it back up.

Anyway, you get your eyes feeling better, okay? ^_^

Ta! I need a new monitor, I think – this one is fucking awful.

[John Hoare]

Well done on spotting it! I think it’s being mentioned in the next update tomorrow, along with the latest TOS news.

This might be as good a place as any to say it – I’m not doing any news stories or updates around here for the next couple of weeks. I’m trying to rest my eyes as they’ve been a bit blurry and achy recently (the optician has confirmed there’s nothing physically wrong with them, so it’s probably stress or something) – and the time I *am* spending online I’m using to do my business and to redesign Noise To Signal. But the others will be busy keeping the site updated, so you’ll be treated to some adept prose style for a change.

I’ll be back doing stuff in a couple of weeks or so. Can you wait? Clue: yes.

[John Hoare]

I know. I was 17! I could have gone! But I just wasn’t involved with that kind of thing back then.

Sob.

[John Hoare]

I didn’t know about the Adelphi 12 either! That’s fantastic.

[John Hoare]

But why should it *matter* if the cast is older, just because it’s retelling the crew being wiped out? It’s a complete reboot, not linked to the TV series. Again, the Lister originally-going-to-be-40 thing comes into play here.

[John Hoare]

I tell you something, get this done in time for DJ and for once we won?t have to go walking round golf courses at four in the morning.

Or get stung by FUCKING nettles.

Or actually be in REAL PHYSICAL DANGER OF DYING BY FALLING OFF A BRIDGE.

[John Hoare]

I must admit, certain things worry me about the Movie, or any new series, if they ever go ahead… but the age of the cast has never been one of them. Certainly not at the moment. Look at Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan – age can *always* be taken into account in the script.

People don’t stop being funny as soon as they hit 40.

[John Hoare]

Powerpuff Girls (I kid you not) editions

Oooh, I’d never heard about this! Fantastic!

*googles*

I want.

[John Hoare]

That?s skating ever so close to a Birds of a Feather gag.

Inspector Fowler, in The Thin Blue Line:” There’s a place for smutty inuendo, Constable Kray, and that place is on Birds of a Feather.”

Although I quite like the early series…

[John Hoare]

I was slightly annoyed that the fantastic Voyager episode ?Year of Hell? had the characters lose all knowledge of an entire year?s interesting character development. There was no way around it admittedly in that episode and I suppose having Annorax reunited with his wife was a satisfying enough conclusion. Though after seeing Janeway tested to her limits and sacrifing herself for the sake of the crew not happen can make the previous 85 minutes seem worthless.

That was the reset button I least minded in Voyager, although it did cause the most fuss. But the reset button was intrinsic to the plot, there – it’s set up from the very first scene with Annorax.

But I do wish YoH is how they’d done *all* of Voyager, rather than just being a two-parter…

With regards to Tate – I certainly agree with Jonsmad that the setup of the reluctant companion (or at the very least an antagonistic one) would be great for Series 4, and the right time to do it. It’s just that I’m not convinced about it being Tate. She’s fine in small doses (and when she’s NOT. DOING. SKETCHES) – but I’m really worried about 13 episodes with her. I just don’t warm to her enough for that.

[John Hoare]

If it was brought back now I?m still confident it would manage at the very least a regular audience of around 4-5 million.

Yep, I agree with this. But – as I’m sure you know, but I’m just clarifying for the sake of the topic – an extremely small fraction would actually put money towards a film. Nowhere near enough.

Likewise to think of it as a decade old show is only really true to us Brits. Everywhere else it?s still relatively new and through re-runs and the DVDs is continually reaching a fresh audience.

I just wish some of them would enter fandom. But that’s a whole different discussion…

[John Hoare]

Yes, the more I think about the finale, the more the reset button doesn’t actually bother me.

I think sitting through too much Voyager has probably made me over-sensitive to reset buttons.

[John Hoare]

They drop Martha (and ignore the awesome potential of Sally Sparrow) and pick an awful comedian who relies on canned laughter to convince deadbeats that her show isn?t the biggest pile of shite on TV.

It’s not canned, though, is it? Isn’t it shot in front of/shown to an audience?

I think The Catherine Tate Show is excerable – but I didn’t mind her in Who at all. For an episode. And I wouldn’t mind a guest part in Series 4. But she *really* doesn’t scream full-time companion to me – not even with the obvious changes that are going to be made to her character. And the more I think about it, the less happy I am.

It’s important to remember that they haven’t dropped Martha as such, though – she’s in the last half of the series, I believe. She’s also in three episodes of Torchwood – and she couldn’t shoot both Torchwood and all 13 eps of Who. I reckon they actually think a lot of her – so much, in fact, that they want her in Torchwood to boot it up the arse slightly…

[John Hoare]

I wouldn’t say ruined, exactly… but whilst I really liked her performance in The Runaway Bride, not even I’m keen on 13 episodes of her. Back for a two-parter? I’d look forward to it. Back for a whole series? Pfffft.

We’ll see, but I have a deep dark sense of foreboding about this.

[John Hoare]

You could do a spin-off set in the same universe with different characters, though…

[John Hoare]

Incidentally, something Andrew said on the Webboard – hopefully you won’t mind me quoting this, Andrew:

“I’ve always thought that – if the film didn’t happen – we could do a DVD set based around it. Art, boards, animatics, readthrough and rehearsal footage…and a full cast audio
recording of the script. Maybe set to boards or, gulp, animated.”

Note the “if”, there, before anyone takes that too literally! But I think it’s a marvellous idea. Doug has mentioned in the past that if the Movie doesn’t happen, he could write a book about it – but a DVD would be absolutely perfect.

[John Hoare]

I have very, very mixed feelings as to where I’d like to see Dwarf go next. A Movie would be absolutely fantastic – it’s taking Dwarf into a new area, and I really really want to see what Doug can do with it.

If we don’t get that, a special to tie everything up would also be great… if only to resolve that pesky cliffhanger.

A series of specials, or even a full-blown series… I’m ambivalent about. In a lot of ways, I’d love to see them – I’m still a fan of Dwarf, and I want to see what Doug can do. But the fact remains that I’m not that keen on VII/VIII – and whilst I wouldn’t prejudge any new series, it does get to the point, when there’s been 52 episodes, and I’ve not been that keen on the last 16, where I think… enough is enough. On the other hand, I’d really like to see the series end on a high.

In a lot of ways, I’d like to see what Rob and Doug can do with other stuff – either together, or frankly far more likely, solo. Rob Grant’s got a hugely successful novel-writing career, of course, but I’d love to see what he could do for telly – and I just want to see anything from Doug Naylor at this point.

The fanboy in me wants to see more Dwarf – even if it’s just back on telly, and the Movie doesn’t happen. But I can’t help but feel that in terms of something I might *really* love, a completely new project might be more likely to succeed – with me, at any rate.

All just my personal opinion as to what I think *I* would love, obviously…

[John Hoare]

Has teh Ellard ever explained about this book? Was it going to be about the making of the movie?

Yep, it was. He was all set to write it, and as the film got very close to production at one point, then Amazon grabbed hold of it.

Mind you, Amazon will list anything…

[John Hoare]

How deliciously bizarre.

I might get bored of that quote at some point.

Nothing to do with me, anyway. I wouldn’t be seen dead using tables for layout…

[John Hoare]

*best Craig Charles impersonation*

What?s pagination?

Splitting the forum display into pages – so, you’ll get, say 30 posts on a page – and then you go to page 2.

Simple enough, you might think. And I can enable it with a couple of clicks on the mouse. But STUPIDLY, the software won’t display the number of pages (and links to those pages) in the topics listing, like EVERY SINGLE OTHER PIECE OF FORUM SOFTWARE does. Which would make the whole thing completely confusing.

So I’ve got to find a way to make it do that. It’s doable, but it’ll take a bit of work.

[John Hoare]

I must admit, I predicted you’d show up, but that kind of timescale is pretty impressive.

[John Hoare]

With regards to Father’s Day – oddly enough, I think it’s the episode that probably made me care about Rose as a character. It’s easy to scoff at the dead father stuff if it doesn’t work for you, but it really did for me. Just that shot of her in tears near the beginning when she misses her chance… well, it resonated with me, put it like that. That whole situation is something I often wondered about myself.

Rose does work as an identification character for the show for me. Someone I’m completely like as a character? No. Someone who I would want to hang around with? Absolutely not. But someone who got stuck in a dead end job and needs to realise just how wonderful the world can be, if you grab hold of it and live life? Oh yes.

[John Hoare]

http://markmuldoon.blogspot.com/2007/06/doctor-who-appreciation-blog.html

Not only have I learnt that “Sci-fi is crap” – but apparently, having a favourite writer is “geeky”.

I hope they don’t pop round here, or their head will explode. Actually, on second thoughts, maybe I *do* want them to pop round here.

[John Hoare]

God, Father’s Day is one of my favourite episodes of New Who. But it all depends on whether the emotional stuff in it affects you – if it doesn’t, then it has precious little else to offer. But it’s one of the very few episodes of New Who that always affects me – I never fail to tear up at it.

[John Hoare]

I’ve never played it. I never really have time…

A report would be fantastic, though!

[John Hoare]

I find the Fawlty/branch/car scene unrepresentative of Fawlty – just as the Del Boy/bar scene is unrepresentative of OFAH. The really interesting character comedy in Fawlty comes from his class snobbery, sexual repression, and the like.

Although, y’know, him pulling a funny face when the rat escapes is funny as well.

Anyway, it’s all a taste thing. And I do enjoy OFAH when it’s on, especially earlier ones. It’s just that it doesn’t really resonate with me that much.

[Author]

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