Turk Thrust

[Turk Thrust]

It’s the point at which VII actually starts to kind of work on its own merits.

I probably would have been perfectly happy with a Series VIII that followed directly on from the vibe set up in Epideme and Nanarchy, with Chris and Norman coming back a bonus.

Yeah, it’s interesting on the Series VIII DVD when Doug says that he stopped listening to people and did his own thing. He (and that documentary) frame that as being a positive thing in that VIII was much better than VII, but maybe he should have listened a little more.

It’s also interesting to think about Paul Alexander’s contributions. For VII, he was clearly given the brief that they were writing a sitcom that had some fairly serious science fiction in it and hence we got Epideme. For VIII, the brief was presumably more “Men Behaving Badly in space” which is why we ended up with Krytie TV.

I used to be quite harsh about his writing, but he could only work within the confines of what Doug wanted. 

[Turk Thrust]

17/05/2026 

Epideme, Cassandra

[Turk Thrust]

Sorry to bring the thread back to Red Dwarf …

I re-watched Epideme again recently and would say the plot is one of the strongest in the whole of the post bubble era. Obviously, Rimmer’s absence is a huge loss (and it’s interesting that Paul Alexander’s original idea was for Epideme to pass into his bloodstream unaware he was a hologram), but if people can look beyond that, I would say it’s a slightly underrated episode.

Interesting, also, that it was Ed Bye’s idea to make Caroline Carmen a zombie.

There are pluses and minuses to Doug taking on so much in the Dave era, but the other collaborators in Series VII contributed a lot, including some of the positive aspects of that series.

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Aside from grumblings about how series 7 is like seeing your ex-wife’s wedding tape, have either Grant or Naylor ever commented on each other’s Red Dwarf?
Naylor’s introduction for Last Human implied that he was going to read Backwards, at least

Rob said that he watched some of VII and disliked it so much (and bringing back Kochanski was so far away from what he would have done) that he couldn’t bring himself to watch VIII.

I haven’t heard him comment about watching any of the Dave era, but I’m sure he was happy enough to get paid for all of them.

[Turk Thrust]

#RedDwarf #Smegle 16/05/2026 

[Turk Thrust]

Having just rewatched Krysis, I would say that much as I love Robert’s portrayal of Kryten, it feels like he was struggling a little bit by this point. Not that he was terrible, but it feels like he’s reaching for his lines and is never quite certain of the script. I guess that had always been the case to some extent, but it was more obvious by the Dave era.

Dominic Coleman’s Butler is excellent, however.

And I know it’s inevitable that Dwarf will sometimes have jokes similar to other shows, but “The Best of Mozart” (I’m Alan Partridge) and “Back of the throat.” (Frasier) are two pretty famous gags.

[Turk Thrust]

When he did that AMA in September last year Doug was about to have a meeting about Out of the Red. He also mentioned an idea he’s had for a live thing for the 40th anniversary, so I definitely don’t think he’s done with Red Dwarf. He seems to really enjoy working with the cast and I won’t be surprised if by hook or by crook he manages to get something off the ground. As for novels, he’s mentioned adapting the script for the special he was nearly finished writing when UKTV put the kibosh on it, but he’s also said he didn’t get a response from Penguin when he approached them about a new Red Dwarf book, so who knows? Maybe he’d consider self-publishing, or tweeting the whole novel bit by bit. I suppose if Titan is a big seller he might get more interest. 

I imagine there would certainly be publishers interested in a new Red Dwarf novel.

I recall that the contract from Penguin was originally for Rob and Doug to each write another Dwarf novel. As Rob was able to go to another publisher, I presume that Doug could do the same.

[Turk Thrust]

I don’t think Doug is finished with Red Dwarf yet. It’s going to come down to who’s willing to put the money in, though. Novels are just quicker and easier to produce. 
People tend to underestimate how much Doug wants to keep making Red Dwarf content. To the point he has come up with some weird ideas. Like he mentioned having an idea for a meta conspiracy story he was putting together with the Red Dwarf cast playing themselves, and i assume thats not happening either now. But you never really know what’s boiling over.

Easier, certainly, and quicker, possibly.

Doug has said that the second Sin Bin Island book can’t be published until 2027 as the publisher needs that much time.

So any Red Dwarf book would maybe have to wait until 2028 which, thinking about it now, would be perfect for the 40th anniversary. 

[Turk Thrust]

I guess I should feel pretty good that I got anywhere near:

#RedDwarf #Smegle 15/05/2026 

BITR1, BITR2, BITR3, Pete 1, Pete 2

[Turk Thrust]

I guess the 40 year anniversary isn’t too far away.

Having some kind of Red Dwarf celebration wouldn’t be a bad idea (either on Dave or on the BBC), but I still won’t be holding my breath for any new episodes.

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I recall that around 20 years ago when people were discussing VII on the boards, there was a discussion about whether it would have been better to bring back Hollister than Kochanski.

It still wouldn’t have been the same show without Rimmer, obviously, but at least we wouldn’t have had jealous Kryten.

For it to have worked, you would have needed to have a regular version of Hollister rather than the Dennis the Doughnut Boy version of VIII.

[Turk Thrust]

#RedDwarf #Smegle 14/05/2026 

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#RedDwarf #Smegle 13/05/2026 

A lucky guess as I had no clue what it was.

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I can certainly understand some of the criticisms of VI. For example, the formulaic nature of the scripts, having the triple sequel, and Rimmerworld not being exceptional (I think it’s often a worrying sign when several years pass on a show, but a character’s personality seems unchanged).

That said, it has some of the funniest lines in Dwarf and there are some classic episodes and scenes.

I also remember watching it as it was broadcast and feeling like I was in safe hands. Obviously, later on I analyzed it to death, but at the time it didn’t feel like Rob or Doug were going to write something that I wouldn’t enjoy.

Skip ahead to when ‘Tikka to Ride’ was broadcast and I was mildly aware of the split, but hadn’t followed things in detail. I remember being so unimpressed by the episode (the start and ending in particular) that I didn’t watch all of that series at the time. 

[Turk Thrust]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the reception to Back to Earth made him a little more avoidant of using old ideas, as in the BTE commentary, he sounded a little bothered that people were saying he ran out of ideas because he used the suicide squid idea again. Aka the joy squid.

I would say that Doug still reused huge numbers of ideas throughout the Dave era, though. In fact, I can’t think of many other U.K. sitcoms that have gone back to old ideas more (mixed in with plenty of good new ideas, too).

Dear Dave, for example, takes the post pod idea from Better Than Life, remakes the sex scene from Polymorph and reuses a punchline from Nanarchy.

Fathers and Suns has Pree who can see the future and complete the characters’ sentences in the same way that Cassandra did (an episode which itself borrowed from Future Echoes).

Entangled brings back Steven Wickham in a role and scene that has plenty of similarities to his appearance in Emohawk. 

Series XI and XII also had plenty of reused ideas.

[Turk Thrust]

What other fan favourite characters would they have desperately brought back in their gestalt Series VII? Hudzen 10? Camille? Marilyn Monroe-bot?

Well, certainly not Kochanski based on Rob’s comments when VII was broadcast.

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I wouldn’t exactly say Series VI showed them “running out of steam” as it’s still a great show (and light years better than VII), but if they’d stayed together, they would have needed to take the show in a new direction again. 

I also wonder whether even if they’d stayed together, would they have tried to make a Series VII without Chris Barrie/Rimmer?

In addition to Red Dwarf, I think the pilot and regular episodes of The 10%ers indicate how different they were together and apart. The pilot is very dark whereas Doug’s episodes are much lighter and more traditional sitcom (and quite funny if memory serves).

[Turk Thrust]

#RedDwarf #Smegle 11/05/2026 

A rare moment of luck as I went for the blackest episode I could think of.

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#RedDwarf #Smegle 10/05/2026 

[Turk Thrust]

Perfection!

#RedDwarf #Smegle 09/05/2026 

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My memory really is shot to bits.

#RedDwarf #Smegle 08/05/2026 

[Turk Thrust]

The Dear Dave version of that scene is a clear improvement over the Nanarchy version.
Nothing beats “fingerlicking machine working overdrive”

The Dear Dave version of that scene is a clear improvement over the Nanarchy version.
Nothing beats “fingerlicking machine working overdrive”

Nothing in ‘Dear Dave’ is an improvement over anything that had gone before. Just my opinion, of course, and I respect yours.

[Turk Thrust]

Hitler’s “oh no, it is mine,” is amusing, but it was even more amusing when Barraclough did the same joke in Porridge 50 years ago. :)
I’m wary of critiquing jokes on the basis of “it’s been done before” or “you could see it coming a mile off”. 
A lot of comedy/art takes established beats and tropes and runs with them. There are plenty of other examples of ‘obvious setup with punchline’, what’s important is if it’s funny (which you did acknowledge you found it).
Unexpected and original are also great if done right, but sometimes you just want a gag executed well.

Sure, and I guess Doug would freely admit that he was borrowing from Clement/Le Frenais there and in a Series VII deleted scene (The “I want you to fill this for me,” bit).

I think it’s more of a problem when Doug is borrowing from himself. For example, in ‘Dear Dave’ where the punchline is “You’ve not listened to a word I’ve said,” which is almost identical to a line in ‘Nanarchy’. When the show is borrowing from Series VII, you know it must be in trouble. :)

[Turk Thrust]

I really can’t remember which episodes are in XI and XII.

#RedDwarf #Smegle 07/05/2026 

[Turk Thrust]

I would be one of those who agrees that Cured is way below bubble standard. And the attempts at satire with references to war, politicians, and Rupert Murdoch are all pretty obvious and lazy targets.

Hitler’s “oh no, it is mine,” is amusing, but it was even more amusing when Barraclough did the same joke in Porridge 50 years ago. :)

I enjoy Rimmer’s comments about putting ramps on board, though. They work well with his character.

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Having just re-watched X again, I would rank Lemons as the strongest by a fair distance. A solid plot, some laughs, and they did a good job with the look considering the budget constraints.

Twentica and Give & Take would certainly also be in my top 6 Dave episodes, but I need to have a re-watch of the rest as my memory is atrocious.

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With regard to the bubble, I think when you are enjoying episodes, you can overlook some of the faults. There are some bad jokes and production issues are occasionally apparent (eg. Demons and Angels), but you could still rely on it to be a generally good show.

After the bubble, there are good jokes and ideas, but it feels like there is no quality control. There are in and out of character moments and the idea of being alone in a godless universe is long gone. Not just in terms of the number of guest stars, but also Kryten collecting all of the toilet paper in the ship to make expenditure cuts! (yes, I just rewatched Dear Dave).

[Turk Thrust]

#RedDwarf #Smegle 06/05/2026 

I always get XI and XII mixed up.

[Turk Thrust]

Watching X again now, Chris Barrie’s performance is way below what it was during the BBC days and also below what it became in XI.

I can understand people enjoying having just the 4 main characters on the ship and that aspect was undoubtedly an improvement over VIII. But the vast majority of guest characters and vending machines are ridiculously OTT in the same way that Kill Crazy and Baxter had been.

There are several good ideas in the plots, but also lots of rushed ideas that don’t go anywhere. 

And Doug’s writing for women hadn’t really improved since VIII.

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Is that really an unpopular opinion? Most people seem to think Back to Earth is a weird one-off with various opinions on its quality, and X is a noticeably low-budget, slightly generic-sitcom series we were just happy to have on, which has moments of brilliance and moments of absolute shit.

Well, in the polls the Series X episodes do quite well.

I agree that the low-budget is very apparent upon repeated viewings. 

[Turk Thrust]

Another unpopular opinion: Back to Earth and Series X were not returns to form or a significant improvement over VII and VIII.

[Turk Thrust]

05/05/2026 

[Turk Thrust]

If they were going to use talking vending machines again, they really could have brought Tony Hawks back.

I wonder whether part of the reason why they have been used quite a lot in Dave Dwarf is down to Rob and Doug completing the Bodysnatcher script. In the commentary, Doug mentions that they initially planned to use talking machines a lot more but that it was a shame that got lost as the years went by.

My unpopular opinion would be that Talkie Toaster should not have returned. It’s a one joke character and they basically just got David Ross to say the same lines he had 20+ years earlier.

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#RedDwarf #Smegle 04/05/2026 

Balance of Power.

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When Gunmen of the Apocalypse was first broadcast, I was 13 years old and my small hometown didn’t have a curry restaurant.

So, when Lister used the names Tarka Dal and Bhindi Bhaji, I had no idea they were curries and just thought they were amusing comedy names. It didn’t spoil the comedy at all.

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Given he brought her in with a view to having a more diverse cast for the movie (not a bad idea imho), I wouldn’t be surprised if he was just thinking short term in terms of the series, since the movie was intended to have been a reboot, so it didn’t matter at the time if he didn’t have too much of a plan.
I am genuinely kind of gutted that her story will never be resolved, though. I don’t really want to see Kochanski back on the show full-time, but Chloe deserves better than that and I feel like she always got short swift from a lot of the fandom. It would have been nice to have had an episode to tie it off.

While I can understand someone suggested to Doug that having a woman in the movie would help to get funding, I don’t think casting Chloe was the right choice. If they’d had a woman part in the script and been able to say to investors, they could get a known face to appear, that might have been more appealing for people.

[Turk Thrust]

#RedDwarf #Smegle 02/05/2026 

[Turk Thrust]

All the material from Ouroboros Extended was in there too.

In that case I wonder why it has no laugh track. 

I guess maybe they had a 28 minute version with a laugh track that had gone through the full editing process.

And they had a 31 minute version with no laugh track, so went with that instead.

I seem to recall that one of the crew members in the documentary mentioned that it was a really tricky edit to balance the audience laughs with the performances.

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Also, was anyone here at the series 7 audience viewings? I don’t think I’ve ever read anything about those sessions.

Yup, I went to the first session at Teddington Studios, which showed mostly finished cuts of Stoke Me A Clipper, Ouroboros, and Blue.
Stoke’s teaser was shown as is. First reaction to Ace was more subdued because we were all expecting to see the first episode and the resolution to the cliffhanger, not jump straight to episode 2… So when the ep started proper and we’d adjusted a bit, that’s why Ace gets more response second time around in the ep.

What was the reaction to Rimmer leaving and then only making cameo appearances in the next two eps? Did it seem like it was expected by most people?

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As I’ve been watching Series VIII with the commentaries, I thought I’d mention how good Geraldine McEwan is as Cassandra. She adds a touch of class that isn’t always present in that series and even Norman only has positive things to say about her!

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Thanks to everyone for mentioning the Series VIII commentaries because I’ve gone back to listen to the first 3. 

I think it’s only the second time I’ve listened and they’re a lot of fun. Especially Norman, of course.

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I’ve always felt that bringing Norman back at the start of Series VII would have been one of the best chances to utilize Holly. Not that he could have been a direct replacement for Rimmer, but it might have cushioned the blow of Chris leaving a little. Plus, having both Holly and Kochanski on board might have been a better bet than what was seen as the straight swap of Kochanski for Rimmer.

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And yet Rob and Doug really struggled.

True.

I wonder what would have happened if Norman had stayed. Something tells me that he would have fought hard for his character and maybe Holly wouldn’t have become quite so sidelined.

I know that later on Holly was just a bit part, but that was when Norman was returning to the show as almost a guest actor.

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I wonder how much attention the casting of Koo Stark got at the time. 

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I wouldn’t have said that Clare Grogan was that big a name in 1988. Altered Images had split a few years previously and Gregory’s Girl was back in 1980. She’d had a few small acting roles, but was probably grateful for the work when Red Dwarf came about.

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From the same episode, but the opposite end of the legit scale, Reg Holdsworth.

A good call. 

In the U.K., I would guess that almost anyone over the age of 18 would have recognized him.

So, I suppose maybe Simon Gregson is even more well known because he has been in Coronation Street for much longer.

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I don’t really know how you fit Holly in on a show with Kryten in it, which was part of the reason the character was axed, as I recall. I feel for him being underused in that series but I don’t know how he could have been better employed. In fact, it’s a miracle he got in at all given they’re in prison. 
Any ideas?

While it’s true that Kryten took away some of Holly’s role, I think it would be possible to give Norman’s Holly a reasonable amount to do. 

He and Lister shared plenty of funny conversations in the first couple of series that weren’t simply about exposition. 

But Series VIII had far too many characters (and I think there are also far too many voices on the DVD commentary).

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Interesting. I like Lee Mack a lot, but in much of his acting he seems to be playing a version of himself (there were exceptions in The Sketch Show).

Sorry to crowbar in an anecdote, but I remember watching him do his stand up at a village hall in North Wales at the start of his career. “This is the only gig I’ve ever done where people are having a karate lesson downstairs. And there’s more people down there than there are up here!!!” :)

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#RedDwarf #Smegle 29/04/2026 

I haven’t watched VII for a long time, but still should have got that one.

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When ‘Out of Time’ was broadcast, I remember my older brother immediately saying, “Well, it’s obvious isn’t it? Rimmer shot the time drive and destroyed the other Starbug.”

Then, when Smeg Ups was released, that was confirmed to be the case.

When ‘Tikka to Ride’ was broadcast, my reaction was, “That’s clearly not what happened,” and it didn’t feel like the same Red Dwarf to me. That feeling kept coming back throughout VII and beyond. 

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