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> It?s not a rip-off if you explicitly acknowledge that it?s a sequel

Even if that`s the case, the fact that the new angle was a rip off from Blade Runner was a rip off. You could argue that a lot of other things in the eps were rip offs from Dwarf too and one (terribly done gag) was a rip off from The Simpsons.

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I agree that the serious scenes were the best of the eps though and I wish there had been more (with some non-interfering humour thrown in). Can`t help feeling that that scene deserved more than to be followed by a very rushed and not very convincing wrap up and Danny singing the old song.

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I disagree…unsurprisingly. :-)

For one reason, the original scene on the bus made me cringe. Another reason would be that I think there are dozens of better scenes that Rob and Doug wrote together for the novels and Series I – VI.

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1.02 million is what the site actually says for Sunday which is a slight improvement on Saturday. I`m sure Dave would have been happy with the viewing figures if they`d been offered them at the start even if there must have been disappointment about the downturn from Friday. I would guess that whoever at the BBC didn`t want Dwarf won`t feel their decision has been proven wrong though.

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Of course its is. :-)

Zoe Wanamaker has said in an interview that it`s shit and that she and Robert Lindsey had to walk out of the filming of one episode because the writing was so awful.

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> There are currently 19,000 people seeding it on a certain torrent site.

How many of them will be overseas though?

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I guess it had decent competition and a drop was always likely…but to lose comfortably over half of your audience in one day. The perceived (by some people)lack of quality of the first ep must have been a big factor too.

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> And BTE seems to be going the same way. ?It was just a TV show? is far too close to ?It was just a dream? for my liking. Part 3 tonight may prove me wrong, but you know what I?m getting at I?m sure.

I`m guess equilibrium will probably be restored by the end.

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> So let?s rephrase to ?a special written by the original writers?. Cos for me, it gets a lot more appealing at that point.

Completely agree. Put them back in their original habitat and it could work. I still doubt the BBC would be interested though and I don`t know why Fegen and Norris stopped working together.

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It would probably be very poor indeed. The last 2 series of Brittas were weak and the special before that (which took them away from the leisure centre environment) also didn`t work imo. I don`t think Brittas is that fondly remembered nowadays anyway from what I`ve read on other forums. Although I really enjoyed it when it was at its best.

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Well this genuinely isn`t meant to be personal towards anyone but I think that one of the things that Rob brought to the partnership was to be very firm on quality control (as I`m sure Doug could be as well sometimes). Doug basically says this on the DVDs when he sayd that Rob always said, `we can come up with something better` even when deadlines were tight.

I think that throughout Doug`s tenure as the guy running the show he has missed that. I think there are lots of good ideas in Doug`s solo stuff but there are also some terrible things which shouldn`t have made it to the screen. Doug being the director has probably only exacerbated that problem.

If more Dwarf eps are ever made then I hope that Doug would consider bringing someone else in who has a really big pedigree who can look at things from a dispassionate outsider`s point of view and separate the wheat from the chaff.

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> It?s a cruel review by a very spiteful woman.

Yes, of course it is…

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http://board.sitcom.co.uk/thread/12507/3

Mixed reception here.

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Did she mention the colour of Danny`s and Craig`s skin in the article??? Or is it only you who thinks that`s relevant??? You are implying that she is a racist without any evidence at all which is cretinous. She was talking about what Danny and Craig have been famous for and their arrests are relevant to that end. She didn`t say Danny HAD been found guilty. But he was famous for being arrested and her description of the arrest obviously wasn`t meant to be scathing.

No, Dwarf hasn`t always been cool even when it`s been winning awards or shifting DVDs and I guess that you haven`t read much of Caitlin Moran`s writing before. She is obviously exaggerating with her comments about 8 million people being embarrassed. That`s pretty blatant.

Why would she be spiteful when she enjoyed the early series of the show herself?

If you disagree with her comments about the ep then fine but don`t come out with nonsense about her targeting black actors. You`re the only one doing that.

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Another name was listed as script supervisor I think.

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Bullshit.

Even if you disagree with all of her opinions, she did state that Craig was acquitted of rape. Although she didn`t mention that Danny`s verdict has now been overturned, it was hardly spiteful. She was simply stating the facts that what those 2 guys have been famous for in recent times is being in the tabloids (and Craig being in Corrie which she also mentioned).

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I`ve never heard that before. Where did you read the interview? Thank Christ that they never just brought in hired hands to write the show…although I do think that Doug needs to work with somebody else if the show continues. Even if it is just a strong script editor with sound judgment. Can`t remember the name of the woman who worked on the specials but she can`t have been up to the task imo.

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I think the movie obsession will see Doug attempting to get that made in some way after this. It might happen if the budget is significantly less than what was demanded before.

I do wonder whether, having worked with so many people who gave their services so cheaply, Doug regrets not taking the 6m he was offered a few years ago…

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Seems like it divides opinion just as much as Series VII and VIII really.

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http://netopiax.org/boards/index.php?topic=19180.240

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Yeah, I haven`t been able to watch the Rimmer vid yet but after seeing the Lister one I`m not sure I ever want to.

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Can Doug do it all on his own though? That is the one point in Norm`s rant that may have some validity (and one or 2 of the reviewers have said the same thing). I guess we will see tonight and over the weekend.

By the way, I actually don`t think I, Lovett is that bad at all and it is generally quite highly thought of from what I`ve read.

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> You can?t really blame any of them for not getting in touch, can you? Not when he slags them off on a regular basis.

Norman did go to Danny`s trial recently though didn`t he and was prepared to be a character witness? It is strange if there has been no contact at all imo.

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I think someone else had similar feelings didn`t they…That the first ep isn`t too good but the second one is better?

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That seems pretty much the only explanation based on that clip at least.

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> I always said I wished Doug had gone further with VII, ditched the laugh track completely (along with many of the forced moments designed to trigger that laugh track), gone even more dramatic, gone more like Last Human.

I don`t really disagree too much.

I haven`t read Last Human for many years but when I did I thought it was certainly much better than Series VII. NOt perfect by a long way and some of the characterization was off but the tone was infinitely preferable. Series VII does have many things shoehorned in to try to make it conform to the sitcom standard I think.

With BtE, we haven`t really seen any comedy at all in the trailers but maybe that won`t be such a bad thing. I would rather that the new shows had few jokes rather than bad jokes and I am very happy that the style has changed since Series VIII. In that series Doug clearly tried to crowbar gags in even when they didn`t fit (the Nostrilomo gag being 1 of a hundred examples) and it had a negatie impact on the show imo.

Hopefully in BtE any jokes will fit in with the story and be true to the characters.

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1 7 4 2

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Hostility is the reason given by Doug on the DVDs but whether it`s true or not…

The fact that Brittas ended and Chris felt it went on for too long probably was a contributing factor to him returning to Dwarf.

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> Danny comes across as one of those guys who thinks he?s funny when he rarely is

Nice description. :-)

Agree that Danny and Norman seem to get on very well.

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Are you serious???

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They`re not text tracks.

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> She?s the redeeming feature of this show for me.

I would completely disagree as I think she is the worst thing in it but there we are.

The show itself is patchy but the last couple of episodes have been very good and when it focuses on Lee and Tim it is at its best. They have an obvious chemistry together and good comedy timing as you would expect (even if their acting ability is otherwise limited in the extreme).

I hope that the ratings pick up a bit and the show continues because it is one of the best comedies around right now imo.

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Craig should be thankful. He was obviously perfectly cast as Lister but he has no acting range at all and if he doesn`t like the attention that being in a primetime soap brings then he could obviously have tried turning down a job for once.

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Relieved at that news.

To have included Chloe and not Norman would have been madness and as she was only hired to try to get funding for the movie it makes sense to jettison her now.

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Yeah, they devoted a reasonable amount of time to the first series.

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Enjoyable enough in a throwaway way but not something I find myself wanting to watch again and not the sort of thing I’d be that keen for them to repeat.

Agree that the Kochanski stuff is awful but the rest could have been much worse than it eventually turned out.

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In the spirit of talking about what we would like to see, I would hope to see just the 5 main characters and not Ace, Hollister, Kochanski, the Dibbley family etc. 2 episodes is not that much time so I hope that they are both driven by the main characters and the plot rather than bringing on characters for cameos unless they are integral to the plot.

I also hope that the characters’ ages are referred to and that they are allowed to grow old fairly gracefully. I also pray that the characters actually feel authentic.

The main thing that I’d like though is to not feel like I’ve watched The Legacy of Red Dwarf after the eps have finished. But if the best material from the movie script is used then that shouldn’t happen if it’s as good as has been suggested.

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> Dismissing the whole of any work seems simplistic to me. You never see VIII-haters talking at length about the impressive imagination on display in those series, of things being done right. Likewise, the faction of Bond fans who dismiss the whole of Moonraker for its admitted idiocy are choosing to overlook a myriad good qualities – not the least of which is how well the film gets Bond into a credible space-based setting.

I respectfully disagree that you don’t ever see people rationally talking about the merits of those 2 series. Quite often, including in this thread, people mention good jokes, ideas, episodes etc. from the last 2 series. If some people feel that the bad outweighs the good though then obviously comments about the negative aspects will be mentioned more.

Similarly with Bond, many people are able to talk about the plusses and minuses of the Moore era. Particularly the hardcore fans I find.

> For me ?Things the new Dwarf should avoid? is a negative way to go about celebrating your franchise of choice. And in such a small group it can?t help but lean towards existing biases that we?re all kinda aware of already. It comes with a vague agenda – to complain.

But then posters could, and probably would, just make the same comments in different clothes. For example, instead of talking about not making the mistakes of VII and VIII they would talk about getting back to the heights of the first 6 series.

Also, as previously mentioned, it is inevitable that talk of new Dwarf will mention old series and as Doug only wrote VII and VIII without Rob then those are the 2 most relevant series to talk about.

> I like my fandom more positive – ?What would you LIKE to see??

The nature of these boards is to talk about negative things quite often though isn’t it. For example, in the thread that you started the other day you expended 90% of your time talking about how much Ricky Gervais sucks and much less time praising British cinema. That’s the way it goes.

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I think that as Series VII and VIII are the only series to have been written by Doug without Rob, it’s only natural that people would be worried about perceived errors being replicated in the new eps.

Personally I hope that the 2 new eps have a much stronger script editor as I think Series VIII had some good gags in it but also some terrible ideas and lots of unnecessary lines.

Ideally I would cut Kochanski altogether but if she is included then I hope Doug makes her into a more well rounded character rather than just a stereotypical male image of what a woman is.

I hope also that there is a return to more subtlety and pathos too. Doug said in one of the DVD interviews that maybe it was a shame that that had been lost so there seems a chance it will return.

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I would have to agree that the reaction to this sort of comment is way over the top. If Gervais thinks that few good British films are made then it’s a valid opinion. People are entitled to them even if others don’t agree.

Also, lots of people clearly dislike him as a person but it still can’t be denied that the vast majority of projects that he has worked on, including the new film which he is now promoting, have been immensely popular with both fans and critics. Those people’s opinions are again valid.

I also do wonder why some people who claim to hate him so much seem to intentionally seek out every piece of work he does. Bizarre.

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> Anyway, whatever the reasons behind it all, it has to be great news and probably not the best time to start bickering.

Amen to that. Hopefully people can put their toys back in the pram and just concentrate on discussing things which are more important.

Personally I hope that, if the ep does come about, Doug doesn’t think beyond this and just puts everything into it. By that I mean that I hope that any good jokes from the movie script which can be lifted will be and that the ep won’t be seen as a way of putting Dwarf in the shop window for future projects.

I also pray that it won’t be a ‘best of’ episode with repeated catchphrases and appearances by Ace, the Dibbley family etc.

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> I have nothing against Grogan, but it does puzzle me that anyone would consider her a superior actress to Chloe.

To be fair, Clare does have a much more impressive CV imo. In the show though I agree it’s because she had less to do and she appeared in better series that her version of the character is generally more popular.

> Doug would be the first to admit that he didn?t write Kochanski very well, especially in VII.

But Doug has also said that Chloe played the character much more uptight and unlikeable than was written which is hardly a ringing endorsement.

> But, that said, I do think Chloe is a better actress than Clare. As evidence, I present the following two lines of dialogue :
?That doesn?t excuse my other four senses!?
and
?Don?t worry about us, GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN!?

The line, “We’re not friends any more.” immediately springs to mind.

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I watched this purely due to Chris’s involvement and it was amiable enough I guess. Chris’s role wasn’t particularly challenging but he was competent in what little he had to do. Obviously he puts other things before his career nowadays which is fair enough but from a fan’s point of view it’s a little disappointing.

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Can’t really add much else except to reiterate how excellent the DVDs were and are and that it will be tough for GNP to keep up that standard on any future releases.

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Yeah, I thought that this ep was stronger than the last couple of weeks. One or two duff sketches but a good success rate nevertheless.

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I actually thought it was pretty poor in comparison with the rest of the series. A typical mid-series dip in quality I guess but it’s a shame as I thought the first couple of eps of this series were excellent.

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> Huh?? People die in Brittas and the humour is ?dark?, but it?s only very occasionally played for the drama of the situation.

Yeah, I don’t really see any genuine drama in Brittas at all. It was a good, but not great, show until the last couple of series but several of the characters are one dimensional and trying anything truly dramatic would have been a mistake.

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> Why do we still have Sir Digby Chicken Caesar, who I never liked?

It seems like they’ve completely run out of ideas for him and this weeks sketch was desperately unfunny.

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> Now THAT is funny.

It seriously isn’t.

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