Carlito

[Carlito]

Oh, wait now…. was it a book? Or was it… nothing?

[Carlito]

I have it on good authority that they were a gay couple and they broke up. I read it in a book.

[Carlito]

Bee Gee.

[Carlito]

On a similar note, I once had a dream that I found out that a Red Dwarf IX was made years ago and I never realised, and couldn’t get hold of a copy of it anywhere. I got really frustrated that it had slipped past my radar and that there was whole series of Red Dwarf out there that I had never seen.

Sad, huh? Dreaming about Red Dwarf.

[Carlito]

Either UKTV are lying about the audience figures they achieve, or BARB aren’t an accurate source of information. Or some wires are crossed somewhere.

[Carlito]

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcasting/a80331/uktv-celebrates-daves-growth.html

[Carlito]

Car of the Year was 2007, my bad.

[Carlito]

I’m still convinced that’s Craig Charles in the video…

[Carlito]

Jesus, three months on and this looks increasingly more like a premonition than a dream…

[Carlito]

Dave gets an average of 3 million viewers per day. Car of the Year, a Dave original, got 4 million viewers.

I doubt anyone would be impressed if brand new Dwarf only scored 1m.

[Carlito]

There were no camcorders in those days, and Youtube won’t accept hyroglyphics.

[Carlito]

Wasn’t it Howard Burden who was confirmed and some people got confused and said it was Howard Goodall?

Or summat…

[Carlito]

> Plus about 5 million viewers is about all the show could realistically hope for on Dave

> Sadly no. It would be very lucky to get 5m on BBC2.

Dave got about 4 million viewers for their Car of the Year coverage, so I’d assume a well-promoted brand new Dwarf could top that.

[Carlito]

When I was about 10 yrs old (circa 1993), me and a mate acted out a hybrid of the “He’s taking the smeg!” scene from Queeg, and some of the two-hander stuff from Marooned for our primary school talent contest.

I seem to remember it basically played to a bunch of blank faces ranging from 5 to 11 yrs old, and a couple of teachers who had a giggle at the “Inflatable Ingrid” gag even though we probably didn’t even get it ourselves at that age.

So Marooned has a special place in my heart.

[Carlito]

Well, I think of Dave as a makeshift home. Should there ever be another full series, I doubt Dave would provide much of a budget. Plus about 5 million viewers is about all the show could realistically hope for on Dave, and that would probably make it Dave’s most watched show ever. A new series on a “terrestrial” channel, or a more established channel, would make more sense and provide a bigger budget.

I mean, I’m excited for the new episodes for sure but I have a feeling that once they have aired we will all be agreeing that (good or bad) any further episodes will need more money behind them.

[Carlito]

Yes, Worldwode. I stand by that spelling.

At least, I HAVE to, as there’s no edit option. :S

[Carlito]

I liked Crime Traveller, cheese and all.

[Carlito]

It’s the Fusebox.

[Carlito]

Yeah I was thinking of the exit sign scene when I said Bobby had a couple good lines.

And it’s nowhere near better than VIII. And you know it.

[Carlito]

Why are GNP always so strapped for cash? (ie. tiny budget for latest episodes, no means to make a movie etc.)

I mean, I’m sure they don’t have a couple million going spare to just make a movie of course, but surely they could put a bit of money into new projects? Drum up cash for a movie by contributing towards the budget themselves?

It’s not like they haven’t released about 12 international best-selling DVDs over the last few years, or sold the programme to channels all over the world etc. There must be SOME cash in the coffers.

[Carlito]

Save yourself the frustration and don’t.

Bobby is the only good thing in it, he has a few good original lines, but other than that…

[Carlito]

Wouldn’t surprise me if the new episodes are completely stand alone, and Doug simply explains the outcomes of the cliffhanger in a talking head on the Behind The Scenes episode.

[Carlito]

I know, I wasn’t having a pop at you, just at Digital Spy.

[Carlito]

I can understand he’s miffed… if you keep a space in your schedule for a work offer which is then taken off the table just a week before you are due to begin production, yes I can see why he would be a bit annoyed… but he’s going over the top.

Maybe it’s just a ruse anyway, maybe he will still be in it… we’ll see…

[Carlito]

Norman Lovett’s GoogleWank Misadventure

Pay to see that?

[Carlito]

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a139670/charles-still-hopes-for-red-dwarf-movie.html

[Carlito]

He simply used the expression “never say never” which then led Digital Spy to write a whole article with the headline “Craig Charles still wants Red Dwarf movie” or summat like that. They literally took a nothing remark and twisted it. Media for you, eh?

[Carlito]

Thing is, he’s a clown to burn the bridge when he must know how tight the budget is, and I’m sure that unless the new script actually writes Holly out for good (which, even if it did, doesn’t mean anything anyway because artistic license can always resurrect a character from any situation, just look at Tony Almeida) then if any further Dwarf projects get the green light, chances are he’d be a part of them…

and the only chance of that happening is if the new ones are a success…

and the new ones won’t be a success if the budget is squandered on making sure everybody gets their lines in at the expense of any kind of quality in the dept of costumes, sets, effects et al. A great script won’t mean much to a casual viewer who’s expected to accept that the office block corridors the witty banter is conducted in are meant to be the corridors of a technologically advanced space ship.

ie. he should be willing to take the hit and the smarting botty of not having a role in these new episodes knowing that ultimately it will be helping the cause and in the long-term possibly provide him opportunities to play Holly again. And hopefully again, and again.

What does he have to lose by keeping a dignified silence? Stiff upper lip, see how things progress once the new shows air, rather than throw all his toys out the pram and say “never again”?

[Carlito]

You do know I was joking, right?

[Carlito]

Because I’m in a good mood, I found it for you…

http://www.ganymede.tv/indepth/now-you-see-it

[Carlito]

Yeah it’s really tiny and hardly noticeable unless you were deliberately looking for it, it’s in the launch pad as Starbug pulls out of Red Dwarf in one of the model shots, and there’s an article somewhere on this site all about it.

[Carlito]

Maybe he’s a whinging git BECAUSE he’s deeply depressed and self-destructive and emotionally wounded by the rejection of losing the only light at the end of his bleak tunnel over the last decade… reprising the role of Holly in a movie or new episode of Red Dwarf.

His recent months have been spent walking on air at the thought of a reunion with his old friends, a new chance to appear on TV and revive his career, his chance to once again be a part of the role that has defined his career and in many ways his entire life, and it was cruelly snatched away from him by budget restraints at the last second, leaving a gaping hole in his existance which he will now fill with bitterness and misery.

Well… maybe not. But you can’t just say “no”, coz you don’t know.

[Carlito]

David Ross? Star of awful sitcom The Green Green Grass?

[Carlito]

Maybe Norman’s deeply depressed.

[Carlito]

Could definitely see the recuperation lounge scene from Back to Reality being re-enacted in the Unplugged special.

[Carlito]

One day I’m sure we will get our Red Dwarf movie, probably adapted from the novels with a completely new cast… when this day arrives, there will be a new Holly. Probably a famous name too.

Larry David as Holly? That could be fun…

[Carlito]

Hattie wouldn’t be a NEW Holly now, would she?

[Carlito]

A baffled, senile dippy computer… hmmm…

I agree Bailey would be a good choice. Also, how about Ardal O’ Hanlon? Richard Ayoade?

If it were on Dave, expect Jimmy Carr or Johnny Vaughan or the ilk.

[Carlito]

There’s loads of windows on Star Bug but by a strange coincidence, they were all on the hard camera side of the ship. How do you think we were watching them? They didn’t break the fourth wall, they put windows in it.

[Carlito]

Todhunter was the very first episode, before Rimmer’s character became more defined (wasn’t that script written several years prior to the rest of the series?) and he thought “Captain Paxo” was an hallucination.

[Carlito]

I would suggest they could always film more material and have an ‘extended’ DVD, but it seems pointless filming additional footage and not including it in the episodes.

[Carlito]

Plus of course the fact that somehow Lister managed to find his way to the Aigburth Arms in Liverpool more or less around the timeframe he was originally from, and opted to return to Red Dwarf 3 million years in deep space despite the whole objective of the show for Lister was to find Kochanski (check) and get to Earth (check).

Same thing in Tikka To Ride, when they end up on Earth (in Texas) with a time drive. Why would you even go back into deep space where you are lost and have no supplies, when you’re back on Earth?

[Carlito]

Yeah. In Duct Soup, Kochanski has been trying to fit in, even learning what “offside” was… obviously didn’t try hard enough if you’re still struggling to fit in and bothered by squeaking pipes 18 months later, biotch.

Of course, the events of Duct Soup, Blue and Beyond a Joke could have taken place during the 18 months she was on board prior to getting preggers.

That, or you just exposed a glaring plot hole I never noticed before.

[Carlito]

Re: my above post. The implication being they all die, but leaving it open so that if they ever wanted to make more, we haven’t actually watched them die, as dire a situation as they are in, they could still be potentially saved, but leaving it unlikely enough that if it really is the last time we ever meet the characters, we know their fate.

[Carlito]

Unless Dave are planning a new series, I doubt they would care about getting new fans on board with the new episodes, there are only 2 of them, the old episodes have pretty consistantly drawn new viewers over the years in their own right. Better a chance to give the old and new fans some closure to the series than just randomly throw out 2 new episodes if there are no plans for more down the line.

[Carlito]

How do you know the new special ISN’T going to resolve the cliffhanger from 10 years ago?

Lister has been studying on board the mirror Red Dwarf for 10 years to find a way to get back to the original ship.

The episode opens as a decade older Lister, Kryten and Cat all climb through the mirror but… OH NO… the portal closes just as Kochanski’s leg appears; she is knocked back through, never to be seen again.

They find Rimmer, who has gone senile from 10 years of being alone on a rotting ship. Holly found a way to slow the deterioration but it meant sacrificing himself to do so. Rimmer has sat in the last remaining quarter of the ship for the last 4 years, waiting to die.

The crew all realise they are doomed, there is no way out of this mess, they can’t even knock up a new portal as the ship labs eroded 6 years ago. They sit in the captain’s office, the last remaining safe, oxygenised room on the ship, and wait to die.

Could be good, bit of pathos, bit of character stuff a la series 2. Bit of ‘Waiting for Godot in Space’. More character interaction and gags than action packed monster killing, as reflecting the budget. And we leave it with an open ending… we slowly zoom out on the characters, out of the window of the captain’s office, to see just a tiny red piece of metal floating in space, the last remaining section of Red Dwarf and fade to black…

[Carlito]

They couldn’t stand each other when they just shared a room… being stuck together 24/7 with no means of escape would drive them to the brink. When I heard they would be imprisoned together for series 8 I thought ‘great, they’re going to be more contentious and backstabbing than ever, this will be the perfect Rimmer/Lister series, back to the relationship of the early years’. Instead they became pals, and Chris Barrie seemed to have forgotten how to play Rimmer, with all the silly voices and stupid faces… there’s no WAY the Rimmer of old would disrespect Hollister in that way as well… Rimmer had a blind respect for authority whether he liked the person or not, that was the basis for Lister sitting the chef’s exam in Balance of Power was it not? To become Rimmer’s senior so Rimmer would listen to him.

[Carlito]

I read an interview with Doug Naylor from around 1998 in which he said that it was going to be his final series before handing the reigns over to a team of writers for subsequent series anyway so as far as retreading old ground/characterisation goes maybe he let somebody else loose on the scripts, especially the co-penned ones, and didn’t exhibit as much control over it as he should have.

[Carlito]

Not only were there just 5 stories but not much in the way of anything new or imaginitive.

Back in the Red went down the AR simulation route already explored in Back to Reality, Better Than Life, Gunmen of the Apocalypse and Beyond A Joke (maybe others too, can’t think right now). And the “turns out they’re still in AR” twist was more-or-less also recycled from two of those episodes.

Pete went back to the “monster of the week” format seen in Polymorph, DNA, Polymorph II, Terrorform and all kinds of others but with no inventiveness behind it. Just a contrived “time wand” to create this latest threat. It was a misfire.

Only The Good, as mentioned, retreaded old ground from Parallel Universe, Timeslides, Ouroboros and others.

Of the 8 episodes of series VIII, only Cassandra and Krytie TV actually explored new ideas and I think that’s why they are considered (at least by me anyway) as the two best of the series.

[Carlito]

I really liked VIII at the time. A fresh new format, back to the bunkmates scenario of the earlier series but with a new twist, and a host of comical sci-fi possibilities by reintroducing the baffled crew to the show.

I think there are two main reasons it went wrong.

1) The characterisation was off: as an example, it makes no sense that Lister and Rimmer would be mischeivous conspiring friends, like a pair of naughty schoolboys as someone put it. And that’s without throwing in the fact that this wasn’t even the same Rimmer that Lister had spent years alone with… it wasn’t a Rimmer he may have formed a slight bond of mutual respect with, a begrudging ally, someone he had come to regard as someone he’d met… this was SUPPOSED to be original, snidey piece-of-shit involuntary bunkmate Rimmer… a Rimmer who just wasn’t acting the way that Rimmer was supposed to. He was far too… likeable. Which, to me, made the character unlikeable for the first time. Holly barely got a look in, and even Hollister had transmogrified ;) from a leadership figure of respect to a bumbling oafish figure of ridicule who was revealed to really just be “the doughbut boy” on a blag (what’s a fucking “doughnut boy” anyway?). Shitting on your own legacy and turning your own show canon into a joke is a big no-no. Makes you, as a fan, feel foolish for buying into it the first time round.

2) For an 8 episode series, we only got 5 stories. The first story, three episodes no less, was all plot development and not much of a self-contained story… it took three episodes to introduce the new scenario we would experience during series VIII. But this scenario only lasted for a further 4 stories.

Two of these (Cassandra and Krytie TV) were enjoyable RD episodes that I would hold up to many episodes of Dwarf from the ‘classic’ years.

Pete… as for Pete… I wish they’d just called the first episode “Captain’s Office” as planned (which I shall call it from this point), and the second simply “Pete”, because then they wouldn’t be grouped together in my mind. I think “Pete” and I groan at the image of these two episodes combined, but in truth Captain’s Office was a fun episode (although the characterisation was askew) but Pete (as in, Pt. 2) was a “seen-it-all-before and it was much funnier the first three times” episode. I think Captain’s Office suffers from guilt by association.

Only the Good was an attempt to do something they had pretty much already exhausted much more subtley before (Parallel Universe is the first example that comes to mind), and the cliffhanger ending cheapens it rather than enhances it (a la Out of Time).

I didn’t mean this post to turn into a mini-critique of Series VIII but I think a lot of the bad will towards VIII comes really from the bitter disappointment of being denied more triumphs like Cassandra and Krytie TV using the new prison/Canaries format, and being offered episodes like Pete which may have been better had we not already been down that road once already with the crew. Cassandra shows that the series VIII format could really work; we’re pissed off that we didn’t get enough of a chance to see it in full effect.

That’s my take.

[Author]

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