Carlito

[Carlito]

I don’t think its completely accurate to say Doug isn’t bowing to the fans at least a little, how many polls has he conducted via Twitter since the series was announced?

[Carlito]

I loved it at the time. A recent rewatch was a little disappointing. Well, apart from Grim.

[Carlito]

If David Haig gets the part it will be his arse on the line so he won’t want a cock up.

Undoubtedly the stand out actor and character of the otherwise mediocre The Thin Blue Line. There should have been a D.I. Grim spin off.

[Carlito]

> Well aside from the cameo in The God Complex anyway.

That’s what I was thinking of, although I thought it was a different episode. The last series all seems to merge into messes in my mind.

[Carlito]

Moffat may be in danger of overdoing the Angels. I know Blink was hugely well received and a classic, but if we get an appearance from the Angels every year it begins to feel like Moffat is really specifically trying to imprint his mark on the shows future ie. establish the Angels as regular foes up there with the likes of the Daleks and Cybermen etc. Which makes it feel forced rather than organic.

But to me what worked best about Blink (at that time anyway) was the one-off nature of the whole thing, this little story in a bubble. The weeping angels were a genius creation, but there’s not really much need for a second or third or fourth go around with them, in my view anyway.

[Carlito]

I too watched last night’s episode.

As a fan, I thought it was a very run-of-the-mill episode. A few elements seemed to me like forced kookiness. The Shirley and Britta conversation (“Two Minutes Later”) was cringeworthy, and so out of tune with what the show usually goes for.

It is capable of so much better. Problem is, when I discovered the show, I watched them all from the start and my joy grew organically along with the show. But when I showed all my mates my new discovery, I simply lined up the ‘event’ episodes (the genre or high concept eps such as paintballing, goodfellas, halloween eps etc.) knowing that would hook ’em, but then there’s the sense of disappointment when you keep watching after that kind of introduction and start watching the more standard fare.

Knowing just how good this show can be can make you forget that it simply cannot be THAT show every single week. Now and again it needs to be a simpler affair to get you invested back into the characters again. But its hard not to feel a sense of an anti-climax when that happens.

And lesson learnt: if you are the uninitiated intending to check out Community, watch them all in order from the start. And stick with it. It’s worth it.

[Carlito]

It’s called ‘Red Dwarf’ but I don’t think its based on the TV show.

More pics… I can’t remember anymore how to embed, so links ahoy…

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Lqgbpn5woZY/SkCX_KDN2oI/AAAAAAAAAzk/9zP9FL1yD6o/s400/EnanoRojo.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_szDhsOTyeDI/S3C7OB_8SgI/AAAAAAAAAeg/FsmYKt3R5rg/s400/enano+rojo.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3138/2800207503_051a07e84c.jpg

It’s a grungy rock bar next to a sex shop.

[Carlito]

http://www.tripwolf.com/en/guide/show/705183/Spain/Andalucia/Granada/El-Albayzin/El-Enano-Rojo

[Carlito]

Hopefully there will be some kind of on-screen legend and/or sting to denote the end of part 1, start of part 2. The ad breaks were very jarring in BTE and not least because it cut directly from the action to an ad.

[Carlito]

I remember being pleased with the new direction (sets, CG, costumes, visual style and presentation) and even not having an audience grew on me (although as I said at the time, I still think it would have been cool if there was an audience for the ship-based parts and when they got sucked into the ‘real world’, suddenly the audience was no longer there).

I also remember posting (on here or somewhere else, don’t recall) that audience sitcom style RD may be seen as old hat nowadays and that the new direction was the way to go – from a public perception perspective rather than my own preferences. But I’m going to eat my words because having seen RDX Ep 2 and also gauged the reactions of people I know who watched BTE, the return to the classic style is preferable and to those who do proclaim it’s “old hat”, fuck ’em.

As for the quality of the episodes, I definitely liked Episode 1 the most, and was lost by the Blade Runner stuff. The BR stuff which was amusing in its own right was great, but crowbarring in references lost me quite a bit. If it had been toned down a tad, I think it would have worked better overall. Previous movie parodies in Dwarf had always worked even if you didn’t know the source material, whereas this one was a bit of a chore if you’re a Blade Runner Virgin (which I still am).

Whilst some people seemingly derided Doug as being ‘out of ideas’, I could see that the show was always supposed to be a celebration of RD and was certainly preferable to the originally rumoured ‘clip show with new bits’. And for something of its nature, I was mightily impressed by a lot of it. But to me it doesn’t have a great amount of rewatch value. I may have seen it twice since the initial broadcast weekend (when I watched it over and over!)

In contrast, the single episode of RDX I have already seen, I cannot wait to see the finished article and think one or two scenes will go down as absolute comedy classics in RD history, whereas I can’t think of a single scene from BTE which could be considered a ‘classic’ comedy scene (although, emotionally, the Kochanski stuff is probably classic RD pathos up there with the series II and Marooned peaks).

[Carlito]

It has such a passionate core audience, one would hope NBC see sense and commission a 4th season in spite of the low ratings, even if it means showing it in a less prominent timeslot (and the budget decrease that will perhaps bring). Everyone involved in the show seems to be as passionate about it as the audience.

Let’s hope it’s not another Arrested Development situation.

[Carlito]

It’s bloody brilliant. So glad it wasn’t cancelled and is coming back.

[Carlito]

I doubt there will be two interruptions during the show though? Just the one surely, and bookended by ads to make up the 40 min slot?

[Carlito]

> Carlito I am intrigued by your comment “Far too many instances of the characterisation being off-kilter”, as I understand the other points you made, could you expand on this characterisation point?, cheers.

Okay but only briefly and from the top of my head…

The relationship between Lister and Rimmer is a completely new, hitherto unseen dynamic. They are more like a pair of mischeivous pranksters in many episodes (most notably Pete Part 1) and display more of a camaraderie after just a few months in the Hole than Lister had with hologram Rimmer (the same man remember, minus maybe the death angst) after years of surviving hostile deep space.

The banter and relationship which was so amusing in the early years is gone. A victim of the changing relationship and thawing tensions between the actors? Issues with the writing and the consistency of it? The increasing popularity and therefore pressure of expectations put on the show and its cast?

It doesn’t help at all that the performances all round are far too ‘big’ – probably the novelty of being back in front of an audience again and the added pressure of the notion that ‘the live audience makes the actors funnier’ which was bandied around after the disappointing series VII. All subtlety was gone from the performances. See Chris Barrie’s facials in the opening scene alone for but one example.

Without having the time or inclination to turn this into an essay, you surely don’t need a list of examples to see that Rimmer in particular only barely resembles the character we knew in series I-VI. Lister degenerates into a naive dimwit for no apparent reason (the same guy who has displayed the wits to survive in space for years can’t do a child’s simple join-the-dots in one scene) yet still shows elements of the ‘evolved’ Lister too when it suits the writers. Kochanski’s character may have annoyed people in VII but at least it was fairly rounded, in VIII she becomes a complete irrelevance with barely a trace of her VII persona surviving. Holly just gets a few shoehorned gags rather than having a character in his own right (which, if you’ll recall, USED to be something along the lines of indignant, mischeivous, inept computer rather than the equivalent of a smartphone joke pop-up app.)

Some of the gaping flaws in logic were a little annoying (such as where was the nanobot Kochanski? and if they didn’t resurrect her because there was already a Kochanski, why did they resurrect Holly?) but I can ultimately excuse that because at the end of the day a writer can always explain away ANYTHING at the stroke of a keyboard – it’s his universe – but I’d rather the 30 mins was invested in making me laugh and putting an interesting plot together rather than needing to justify everything… which you can always do, somehow, so it should just be taken as read… unless its a huuuuge one, that really does need to be addressed, and which just gets ignored. When this happens, I just assume Kryten worked it out. Ahem.

Another negative aspect of VIII was the absolute lack of any real attempt to tackle sci-fi concepts in a humourous way, which is pretty much Red Dwarf’s claim to fame. The only sci-fi concepts that cropped up at all in VIII were expansions or retreads of previous ideas seen in the show, but even they were few and far between.

I’m going to stop now, I’m too tired.

[Carlito]

I’ve defended VIII in the past, but not with as much passion as I-VI naturally.

My main beefs are sentiments shared with many others.

* Some lame gags finding their way through the quality control (Nostrilomo??)
* A lot of annoyingly over-explained or tacked-on jokes
* Far too many instances of the characterisation being off-kilter.
* Too many cliff-hangers and multi-part stories, and ultimately only one episode (Cassandra) with a real Red Dwarf calibre plot which could have fitted into any series.

I’ll defend the prison setting, the resurrection of the crew, the CANARIES and many other elements that divide a lot of fans. But not the above.

[Carlito]

> it just contradicts anything said in previous series, and in a way kind of establishes that there is still life on earth, bothering to send junk mail out to people.

I don’t think it contradicts anything. Better Than Life established that post pods that had been sent millions of years ago could still catch up with the ship.

[Carlito]

Microgramma (or its lookylikeys) seems to be the go-to font for anything sci-fi. Wonder how that started?

[Carlito]

And the opening scene….

There’s Argyll, and there’s the baby…. NO, THERE’S Argyll, and THERE’s the baby…
I was thrown for a second by the bib and the bonnet…

(or something along those lines)

You’re right, the over-explanation thing kinda bothered me at the time but it’s only when you specifically look for it that you realise just how OFTEN it occurs.

[Carlito]

G&T is just so comprehensive that it’s hard to think what a new Red Dwarf fansite could actually add nowadays. You want an online community? Well, between here and TOS that’s covered pretty extensively. Behind the scenes goss? What other site would be as dedicated as to fill droughts in Red Dwarf happenings by reviewing Dark Ages or Wally Who, or scour the internet for anything with even the most tenous Dwarf connection, or start a flame war with Iain Lee. Everything I want is right here!

A few will maybe spring up now that RDX is set to air… Or maybe not, this isn’t 1996 anymore and the novelty factor of “I have a website” is no longer prevalent. Even if they do, they probably won’t last.

[Carlito]

> You’re right, changing to Ant may prove difficult. I haven’t even been on G&T a year yet, but since you post so often, I think of you as ori-STUDFARM

When we met at the RDX Ep 2 recording, I literally just thought of you as “Ori”, as though that was actually your name (even though you did mention it was Ant). It seems so fitting, I was happy to just think of you as Ori.

[Carlito]

I get what you mean re: data protection but the provisions they put in place to record that data could ensure that you cannot identify which household neccessarily watched what, just how many there were.

The advertising revenue is more likely. But then it could swing the opposite way too.

At the very least, you’d think the BBC would be trying mto make this happen, as they don’t rely on advertising revenue and it would fit into the theory of giving value for the license fee if they know which shows are actually popular and which aren’t.

[Carlito]

You would think it the digital age they would have facilities in place to find out to the exact number how many viewers are watching something live, at least.

[Carlito]

> BBC TV should have been on its knees begging the boys from the Dwarf to return to their former home!

They were. According to Doug himself at the time, after series VIII the BBC requested a new series every other year for as long as they could keep it going. He also said he wouldn’t be writing it and would be turning the whole thing over to new writers.

This was before the momentum killing movie debacle, and obviously things changed as the years went by. Let’s not forget it was YEARS after VIII that we heard the BBC’s stance on more Red Dwarf. They probably felt that the ‘audience they are no longer interested in’ no longer existed to be of interest in the first place. A long sabbatical on TV (for shows that don’t have such a solid core fanbase as Dwarf, at least) can potentially be the kiss of death.

If it wasn’t for the movie dream/nightmare, we probably would have seen Red Dwarf IX in 2001.

[Carlito]

Can’t be VII then unless they dropped two episodes

[Carlito]

Were they not the Remastered episodes? I seem to recall them getting an airing? Could be totally wrong, of course…

[Carlito]

Shit, they’re not THAT old!

[Carlito]

> If you don’t believe it, just read Bobbyllew’s blog from Jan 28.

Oh, I do believe it. We’ve heard all the horror stories of the schedule and production difficulties in the past.

Now they are making a new series in 2012 with a budget comparable (I read somewhere, forget where, so if its bollocks forgive me) to 1988’s season 2… adjusted, I should hope!.

So I can imagine it being tougher than ever. I have no doubt it’s been a labour of love all round. And most grateful I truly am.

[Carlito]

How deeply do you believe them at the end when they say they’ve been working really hard? “The toughest show on television” is back.

[Carlito]

Woah… Chris’s hair… where did it go?

(nobody make a ‘hair today, gone tomorrow’ remark. Mainly because I just did…)

When he grows it out a bit to play Rimmsy, it looks much better. Unless he had a little… augmentation… for the latest series?

[Carlito]

Full repeats of Captain Butler, The Brittas Empire, The Corner House, Maid Marion, I Lovett and The 10%ers.

On prime time BBC One. Every day, including weekends.

With the credits for all re-done in the style of Red Dwarf, and CGI skutters and pots and pans FX added wherever possible.

[Carlito]

Of course, they could always delay RDX til February when they realise the anniversary is coming…..

[Carlito]

THE APPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL!

Yeah, I remembered it was Krytie TV. It always bugged me too. When I was younger, I too thought it was supposed to be a big, crappily rendered hole in his face which was ridiculous. I only surmised that because I wondered why there would be a big reveal for just a patch, and a patch that doesn’t even look like a patch anyway.

The idea that maybe there was supposed to be a lickle CG thrown on top of that patch which never transpired had crossed my mind before too, and could be a good shout.

[Carlito]

I like the vocals!

[Carlito]

Oh, I thought it was supposed to be a different part of the same song. My bad

[Carlito]

I think the melody Craig sings is My Darling Clementine anyway isn’t it?

Of course all credits where they are due, including to your good self sir. We’d love to use it, very catchy.

[Carlito]

Absolutely love it. How would you feel about allowing us to use this song for our next Red Dwarf Animated video that we’re working on at the moment?

[Carlito]

It does suffer from including “unexpected twist ending #1 2000-2010” but I thought his performance was great, the story is decent and the fantasy sequences with Carrey as Fingerling were very good too. Hmm, it has a bad rap, and it shouldn’t!

[Carlito]

That’s true – of the book continuity, at least. I never felt the TV Rimmer demonstrated the same obsession. Plus his heroes are the elder statesmen, the generals, the leaders, the officers. I can imagine him loving the thought of growing into that image.

But perceptions change as you age. Maybe competing with Lister or putting up a front as an aid to promotion was important to young Rimmer. But being better than Lister is a big motivation. How would he feel if Lister started playing the age card in reverse. “Respect your elders, Rimmer!”

If Rimmer still looked 25 and Lister looked 45, I think Rimmer would feel intimidated and want to match Lister’s aesthetic age. What could be more satisfying for Rimmer than to crow “look how much better than you I look at the same age” – boosted as he is by the ability to control his own appearance.

Anyway, it makes for fair in-world explanation for Chris Barrie’s ageing anyway.

[Carlito]

Dumb and Dumber is also great. Not too optimistic about this proposed sequel though.

> But his most surprisingly brilliant performance, given how understated and uncharacteristic it is, is Eternal Sunshine

Agree totally, but he puts in another surprising turn in The Number 23 which doesn’t tend to get a lot of love, but I thought was pretty good. Unusual role for Mr C.

[Carlito]

If anthing, I think Rimmer would be leastbothered about his appearance aging. I could imagine him specifically requesting an older appearance as he gets on in years to look more ‘distinguished’.

Lister kind of brought up the subject in BTE. “I’ve been dead for ages, man. Sitting around, getting old and fat.”

But of your ideas, the idea of Cat adopting the mannerisms of an older feline would probably be the most fun. My cat was 21 when he died and you definitely see them losing their vanity and slowing down as they get older, so it would be perfectly Cat-like for our Cat to do the same.

Obviously I’d prefer it to be played for comic value rather than tragedy…

[Carlito]

Carrey is pretty awesome in The Truman Show too. But Eternal Sunshine is superb all round.

[Carlito]

I have Dark Ages on tape somewhere. Never felt the need to rewatch it. Awful.

Downloaded The Strangerers years ago by nefarious means (as it’s not available via the legal method) and I think it was pretty underrated. Enjoyed it.

I remember watching series one of The 10%ers but my memories are hazy, shame it’s never been released.

[Carlito]

Forgot to add Four Lions. That film is amazing.

[Carlito]

From the top of my head (therefore not neccessarily spot on….) and in no order:

Ghostbusters and Ghostbusters II
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Groundhog Day
The Negotiator
The Shining
The Wedding Singer
The Naked Gun
The Shawshank Redemption
The Butterfly Effect
Office Space
Pulp Fiction
Old School
My Cousin Vinny
Memento
Goodfellas
As Good As It Gets
Back to the Future Trilogy

Yeah more thsn 10, sue me, I’m pissed… and not exhaustive either…

[Carlito]

He’s fairly complimentary with his view of Dwarf on his newly revamped website http://www.normanlovett.co.uk/reddwarf.htm

Even series VIII….

[Carlito]

I guess (certainly in his Seinfeld role as Russell Dalrymple) there was a slight resemblance to Doug. Someone’s idea of a joke.

[Carlito]

If Red Dwarf were judged by standard (network) American TV series episode numbers, it would only just be fairly early into its third season right now. If US shows can still find new ground for many years, with premises half as interesting and lacking in boundaries as Dwarf, I think it’s fair to say that – story-wise – there should theoretically be lots of stones unturned yet.

If Dwarf USA had been a hit and run for six years, or even more, they would have produced at least twice as many episodes as our own Dwarf has at this point. I’m assuming, simply based on the length of contracts involved in US shows (and I believe mentioned by some of the British cast as a reason they didn’t get involved… five years sounds familiar?) that Rob, Doug and the US creative team felt confident they could come up with at least 120 plots for the crew.

If so, in UK Dwarfdom, we may have only just scratched the surface.

[Carlito]

Yeah that was my point. There could be an amusing sitcom scenario in there, as long as they’re not simply ALL morons.

Didn’t Mike Judge do something similar in Idiocracy? I haven’t seen it yet, poor reviews have put me off. But I love Office Space so I wil get round to it eventuallly.

[Carlito]

Well considering we’re talking about a show that depicts a three million year return voyage to Earth, it’s not outside the realms of possibility that eventually, somehow, Red Dwarf becomes a generational ship and we could pick up with its inhabitants a few hundred years down the line. The offspring of Lister and Kochanski… maybe even Cat too…. Kryten could still be around (decrepit and senile, perhaps, or even as we know him now, played by Bobby or by somebody completely different)… it could be a small core of characters as now, or maybe even have become a fully crewed ship once more after generations of breeding…

In fact, a kind of hybrid between Red Dwarf and Colony, I guess, could be a rather amusing sitcom, set a couple of hundred years after the death of Lister and Cat. But that would mean a rather depressing end to the bleak journey and unfulfilled ambitions of our original central characters.

[Carlito]

How many more times do we think Corrie will let Craig take this much time off to work on Dwarf while he’s still part of the soap? Surely we’ve been very lucky that he’s been allowed to go off and make BTE and now a full series. This surely can’t become an annual thing?

[Author]

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