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  • Flap Jack
    Participant

    Graeme Harper, who directed Caves of Androzani amongst other things, also directed episodes for New Who right from the get-go.

    Given that Graeme Harper’s last classic series story was in 1985 and his first new series episode was in 2006, I’m going to class this as “uhhh… kind of, but not really.”

    But even if Graeme was in both 1989 and 2005 crews, that wouldn’t prove that the 2005 series is not a reboot. The lack of returning crewmembers is just something which adds to the argument that something is a reboot, not the key determining factor.

    Also The Force Awakens being a remake of A New Hope (with elements from the other films) is surely common knowledge by this point.

    No, “The Force Awakens is noticably similar to A New Hope in a lot of ways” is common knowledge. “The Force Awakens is a literal remake of A New Hope” is a nonsensical assertion that I’ve not seen anyone earnestly argue for until now.

    in reply to: Played any new games recently? #236370
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Sniper Elite V2 came out in 2012, which is perhaps stretching the definition of “new” a bit.

    Now, I’m sure you’re thinking “You? You’re trying to keep a thread 100% on topic? Didn’t you just yesterday post a lengthy defence of Star Wars: The Force Awakens in a G&T forum thread entitled “Would you watch a Red Dwarf ‘reboot’ with an all-female cast?” Doesn’t that make you a major hypocrite?”.

    The answers are: yes, yes I am, yes I did, and yes it does. Thank you for asking.

    in reply to: Played any new games recently? #236362
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I’ve been playing Yakuza 6. I’ve been going through the whole series in chronological order since Yakuza 0 came out last year, and it’s been quite the ride.

    It’s a great time if you like being a fighting dad who is bad at committing to being a criminal but good at getting into shenanigans.

    Though some of the mechanical changes made between Y5 and Y6 have been a bit tough to get the hang of.

    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I do totally get what you mean, quinn_drummer. While I still maintain that a reboot can be in continuity with the old version, it’s definitely a thing that “reboot” makes people think “oh, new continuity?”.

    Just to clarify my position on Doctor Who ’05 being a reboot a bit more, it’s not so much the gap of time ITSELF which makes it a reboot, it’s the way the writing reacts to the fact that it’s the first new series in 16 years. Because Series 1 actually isn’t a direct continuation of Series 26 – or the TV movie – at all. It’s set an ambiguous amount of time afterwards, and the only returning main character is The Doctor himself, and he’s changed face off-screen.

    If the revived Doctor Who were a hard, new continuity type of reboot, you wouldn’t need to change anything about it until School Reunion (uh… yeah, I screwed up in crediting Human Nature as being the episode which confirmed the classic series as canon; it actually just confirmed the 8th Doctor as canon. MY BAD.)

    Essentially, if ‘Rose’ had opened with Paul McGann exiting the TARDIS talking about San Francisco and the Master, then I’d agree with you that it’s not a reboot. It’s why the TV Movie probably isn’t one.

    So, a big gap doesn’t guarantee a revival will be a reboot, but it makes it more likely, as the writers won’t want to rely on their audience understanding the full context of the most recent series.

    This is also why I consider Back to Earth an incredibly soft reboot, too. Although it’s far more debatable there, because of how many specific back references it has, it still sets up a new, approachable status quo for the crew that absolutely refuses to be a direct continuation of Series VIII, or even offer any resolution to it.

    Films are a different beast because it’s easier to get caught up on a few films than several seasons of a TV show, so a big gap between releases doesn’t always make the difference. The key question for me is “Is this film selling itself as Film 1 in a new series, or as the long-awaited sequel to the last film?”.

    Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle is definitely the former, because it’s only in continuity with the original via small references, not by being about any of the same characters.

    Terminator 2 is definitely the latter, because every aspect of its plot and characters are directly continuing on from Terminator 1.

    Blade Runner 2049 is also the latter, because despite the time skip its story is specifically following up on the resolution to the original AND it wasn’t created to spawn further sequels, but just to be a standalone sequel.

    Star Wars 7 is actually both a long-awaited sequel to a film and Film 1 in a new series, which is why it’s a serious edge case here, but for me it’s still narrowly a reboot.

    I think if we met half way we’d say a reboot is starting a fresh with something new. We could agree that Jumanji is a reboot, new characters, new story etc … but I think we’d then have to agree Blade Runner isn’t, even though by your definition just because it has been started up again several years later it is.

    Ha, I realise I’ve more or less come around to agreeing with you on most of this anyway. Good stuff. It helped for me to interrogate my own reasoning on this.

    Flap Jack
    Participant

    The film is never clear about who is higher ranking out of Tarkin and Vader, but if Tarkin was just straight up Vader’s boss, then it would be made clear.

    The extra context of Empire/Return shows that Vader is the Emperor’s right hand man, so the chance of a Grand Moff having “appear as a giant face hologram and order Vader around while he kneels and says “yes, my master”” privileges is quite slim.

    Flap Jack
    Participant

    1. Ally to the protagonist escapes Empire-controlled ship
    2. Crash lands on desert planet where the protagonist lives
    3. The protagonist encounters a wise old man who aides them in their journey
    4, The protagonist gets involved with the Resistance and helps carry out their missions
    5. The Empire has possession of a Death Star(s) and blows up one/several planet(s)
    6. Our main antagonist takes orders from a higher power (Grand Moff Tarkin/Snuke)
    7. The wise old man is killed by the main villain clad in black during the escape from the Death Star
    8. The protagonists are able to escape the explosion of the Death Star as well as our main antagonist

    Its a remake in my book

    Ah, yes, Star Wars and Star Wars: The Force Awakens, 2 films which each have exactly 8 beats.

    Seriously, this is such a bad argument I’m still trying to work out if you’re just trolling us, Timewave.

    Because even those 8 points only seem like exact copies because you’ve chosen to describe them in such specifc ways. Let’s go through this, shall we? FOR FUN.

    1. The characters you’re comparing here – other than being in a similar situation – are completely different. Finn is a stormtrooper who turned traitor after seeing the horror of battle, and is escaping mostly to save himself. C-3PO and R2-D2 are droids who happened to be working on a rebel ship, and are escaping specifically to enact rebel plans. You can’t say one is just a straight up remake of the other, because movies are more than just dryly described plot points – they’re about the characters and their emotional journeys.
    2. OK, this is indeed similar. But it’s just there as a means to get the plot together. “Crash lands on desert planet” is not the plot of the movie.
    3. Wait… did you seriously just describe Han Solo as a “wise old man”?! The story of TFA is all about how Han is a washed up loser who failed to save his son from the dark side, failed to save his marriage, has fallen back into all his bad habits, and is desperately trying to make up for his mistakes, but still fails. “Wise old man”? Come on. You might as well say that TFA is a remake of The Phantom Menace, and Han is Jar Jar.
    4. Only similar by the broadest of strokes. Luke tries to help the rebellion deliver the Death Star plans, but gets sidetracked by a rescue mission of his own making, and doesn’t help the rebellion with an actual mission until the very end of the film; Rey is just trying to find the Resistance, but gets captured, and all she does in the end is try to escape and beat on Kylo Ren for personal reasons, not as part of a Resistance mission.
    5. Sure, that detail is very similar, but by that logic Return of the Jedi is a remake of A New Hope as well.
    6. Grand Moff Tarkin is not Darth Vader’s superior, at least not explicitly. I think at this point in your list you must have realised that the direct comparison to Snoke you were thinking of was The Emperor, but that’s from a different film so you couldn’t use it.
    7. OK, there are SO many differences between these two things. Obi-Wan becomes at peace with himself and dies on his own terms before Vader can strike him, and achieves his goal of distracting Vader so the others can escape; Han gets stabbed through the chest by surprise by his son while he’s trying to hug him and bring him back to his side, and so fails to achieve his goal. One happens halfway through the film; the other happens near the end of the film.
    8. Yeah, “people escape a death star explosion” is a similarity, but other than that, ANH focuses squarely on ship-based fighting by Luke, while TFA ends in a lightsaber duel in a snowy forest area., while an actual living planet falls apart around them. How did you come out of that thinking “these things are exactly the same, totally”.

    Right, I’ve already written way too much on the subject of Star Wars on a Red Dwarf forum, but I’ll just echo something Andrew Ellard once said: structurally, TFA is like all 3 of the original Star Wars trilogy rolled into one, not just the first. But for me, its characters’ stories are a whole new thing.

    It is not a remake in any conceivable sense of the word.

    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Largely agree with your points, Toxteth! The use of Zuul or Slimer doesn’t really confirm parallel dimensions though (at least, not within the story). It just adds to the remake-y elements of the film.

    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I’ve always viewed a reboot as starting a franchise over from scratch and telling a largely different story. The core concept remaining the same but the stories being different. i.e. all the different Spiderman trilogies or BSG

    Not an unreasonable definition! But it’s just not the one used by industry folks, the press etc. The evolution of language is all about usage, and the usage of “reboot” is just a lot more broad than that. After all, if that was all that it meant (in a film/TV context), then “hard reboot” and “soft reboot” would be redundant; no-one would ever use them.

    Think about it this way: when you reboot your computer, do you expect the hard drive to be wiped and the operating system to be upgraded?

    Doctor Who, albeit with a long gap between 1989, the movie, and 2005, is all a straight continuation of the same story, same characters, with a history and a canon (well … hmm) that isn’t broken. It might be said to rebooted because it has started up again, but from where it left off. It hasn’t started over from scratch so it doesn’t really seem like a reboot in the sense I view the term as. Otherwise every new Doctor and or show runner would have to be defined as a reboot surely?

    You can’t just say “albeit with a long gap”, when the 16 year gap is exactly what makes it a reboot! (Well, that, and the 0% crossover between the 1989 cast/crew and the 2005 cast/crew.) The Doctor being recast isn’t the same as the show being cancelled and then brought back. You can’t reboot something which never went away.

    Of course, there are shades of grey in calling something a reboot, but Doctor Who 2005 is pretty ironclad. They literally called it “Series 1”! And they didn’t even make it explicit that it was in continuity with the classic series until “Human Nature” in Series 3.

    The Force Awakens is for all intents and purposes a remake, little to no story differences unless the universe is just experiences a deja vu

    Aww, come on, don’t fall into this trap. A film isn’t a remake just because it has similar structure or similar scenes in places. The villain of The Force Awakens is the son of 2 of the characters from the original trilogy. Its story literally depends on the films before it. You couldn’t do that in a remake.

    The Force Awakens is a reboot as well as a sequel though, naturally.

    If I’m remembering correctly (I’ve only seen it once too) but I think it’s the case that they are in a different universe/dimension to the original films, but that ultimately makes them part of the same movie universe as there is a bit of portal cross over at the end or something, on of the ghosts is from the universe the original film is in or something like that.

    Hey, I’ve seen Ghostbusters 2016 twice, and I can confirm that nothing like that happens in it. There’s a portal at the end, yes, but that was a portal to the ghost/demon realm, not a parallel universe. The only grain of truth is that Slimer appears in both 1984 and 2016 films.

    I’m sure that the 2 universes do cross over in the spin-off comics, but regardless, this wouldn’t stop it from being a reboot.

    Ghostbusters 2016 is actually an interesting case now I think about it, because the thing about “reboot” in the context of movies is: you don’t reboot films, you reboot series. So by calling a film remake (or different and long-awaited enough sequel) a “reboot” you create the inference that the film exists to spawn further sequels. GB 2016 isn’t getting any sequels for the time being, so is it still a reboot?

    Yes, probably.

    Another film I’d cite as an example of “reboot, but still in continuity with the original” is the recent Jumanji film.

    Flap Jack
    Participant

    “Reboot” is a fairly broad term that just means a series is being started up again after either a length of time on the shelf or a significant enough change in direction/continuity. Both Ghostbusters 2016 and Doctor Who 2005 definitely qualify as reboots (albeit of different types), as does Red Dwarf 2009/2012, arguably.

    Doctor Who 2018 definitely isn’t one, though.

    Then again, Jawscvmcdia didn’t actually say that Doctor Who was a reboot, they just used it as an example of a main character changing gender, so I think we can let them off.

    My answer to the original question is obviously “yes”. Hard to say how different it would be given how traditionally male a lot of the character quirks are (like Rimmer’s superiority-inferiority complex about his brothers and the military), but hey, anything Red Dwarf is worth a watch! Even Timewave.

    in reply to: Idea for an episode. #236297
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    M&M-CORP

    Kryten installs a software update to the ship that causes all of the Smarties on board to become invisible, leaving M&Ms as the only food available for Lister to eat. Eventually Red Dwarf’s M&M supply is down to just the peanut ones, and so to avoid starvation, they take Starbug to the M&M planet to get more regular M&Ms and maybe some of those nice biscuity ones. Unfortunately the planet has become a barren wasteland inhabited only by huge, vicious and intelligent predator M&M monster men. Lister ends up in a fight to the death with Red (Billy West) for the last crate of Dark Mint M&Ms.

    Non-sponsored episode.

    in reply to: What if Big Finish did Red Dwarf? #236291
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    (Looks like my thumbs couldn’t wait either.)

    in reply to: What if Big Finish did Red Dwarf? #236290
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    AND ANDROID IN 2020!”

    in reply to: What if Big Finish did Red Dwarf? #236289
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Hey, we’ve still got a Dimension Jump this year. If they’ve got any more anniversary announcements coming, they’ll be saving them for then, probably.

    Can’t wait for Doug to take the stage.

    “Yes, I know there’s been a lot of hearsay and speculation about the future of Red Dwarf, and I’ve now you’ve all been very patient, which is why I’m delighted to announce…

    RED DWARF XI: THE GAME – KRYSIS! COMING TOiOS

    in reply to: What if Big Finish did Red Dwarf? #236263
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Primarily I’d want them to do stories that couldn’t be achieved on TV. More specifically, I’m not sure. I’d definitely prefer originals over adaptations, though.

    in reply to: Does anybody have the full image of this? #236262
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I’m now imagining other cats reacting to Duane Dibbley. They’d probably see him as some sort of wise monk.

    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Might have given an interesting effect to shoot all the in-game parts of Better Than Life on film, contrasting with the rest of the scenes.

    Really I can only think of 2 significant consequences for Red Dwarf shooting locations on film:

    1. Shooting would have been overall more expensive, maybe forcing the production to save money elsewhere.
    2. The Remastered project would have only ruined the look of 90% of the scenes, rather than 100%.
    in reply to: Does anybody have the full image of this? #236241
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Well, when they left Red Dwarf they were still split into the red/blue factions, and they were on a mass exodus to discover their promised land. That strikes me as fairly devout. And they were also willing to take Lister’s laundry list as a believable holy relic.

    Ah, yes, I completely forgot that was the reason they all left the ship! I am dumb. But how do we reconcile that with Cat’s line about nobody believing it?

    Option A – Most of the cats genuinely didn’t believe it, but enough of the leaders, politicians etc. were religiously devout to rope everyone else into the Red Hat/Blue Hat civil war anyway.

    Option B – As the cat priest said that Cat was born after the Red Ark/Blue Ark exodus, perhaps not only “the sick and the lame” stayed behind. Perhaps there were also a significant number of atheists and conscientious objectors who also stayed behind, and Cat was raised in that sort of environment, before the rest of the cats either died or left Red Dwarf as well for different reasons.

    I know that the priest’s line “they left us to die” would suggest there weren’t many fit and healthy cats left behind who could look after him, but it could also just be exaggeration, or maybe he’s just talking about dying a normal death as opposed to finding Fuchal.

    Option C – The Cat is actually the only one who was sceptical about the Frankenstein/Cloister story, but he’s egotistical enough that he just assumed everyone else agreed with him.

    in reply to: Does anybody have the full image of this? #236213
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    It’s definitely possible Doug would ruin the other cats by making them too zany.

    It’s also possible that the Cat Polymorph’s zaniness was only there because that’s what would seduce The Cat, and is not a fair indicator of how Doug would write other cat characters.

    in reply to: Complain about Series XIII #236208
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    It was a flashback to the problems of XI-XII, really. An extra 10 minutes on the runtime and it would have been perfect.

    It’s extra annoying that the Idea For An Episode episode was just regular length, but the bottle episode where Rimmer gets trapped in a supply room with Bob the Skutter (TOWRGTIASRWBTS) got to be a 3-parter.

    in reply to: Does anybody have the full image of this? #236206
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Based purely on Cat’s “The Holy Mother? The virgin birth? No one believes that stuff!” line, I’ve always assumed that – while it obviously still had a lot of religiously devout folk – the cat race had become a largely secular society (or at least, a less orthodox one) by the time everyone abandoned Red Dwarf.

    So it makes sense to me that a lot of if not most of the cat race would be similar to The Cat in terms of coolness and general mannerisms.

    Though of course, there must be some things about The Cat that are unique if he was only one of 2 cat people to stay on the ship.

    I think if Doug did a cat race episode now, he could definitely walk the line of having the other cats still he “cool” while also being clearly different to The Cat. Maybe they’d just be more intelligent, less easily distracted, more community minded, just a shade less egotistic, that sort of thing.

    in reply to: Would you consider the Boys from the Dwarf as 'heroes'? #236182
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Maybe the replacement process is flawed, so that some people remember the previous versions of their Inquisited friends and family, or they recall glimpses of The Inquisitor’s physical appearances. Or perhaps the removals cause time anomalies sometimes, like the child of a replaced person continuing to exist.

    There’s probably a subreddit in the Red Dwarf universe called r/TheInquisitorEffect.

    in reply to: Would you consider the Boys from the Dwarf as 'heroes'? #236175
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    ^ re the chronological order idea.

    in reply to: Would you consider the Boys from the Dwarf as 'heroes'? #236174
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    It would indeed. Though if Inquo actually did it that way, that means he must have judged every human in history – and hundreds of generations of cat people – before he got to the Dwarfers.

    If that were true, the effects of undoing all of his replacements would be unimaginable. Even keeping in mind nurture over nature, no way would the exact circumstances that caused the crew to exist in the first place, let alone end up in this exact same 3-million-years-away-from-Earth scenario, still happen.

    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Red Dwarf is a mining ship, yeah? So they must have mined it. They drilled down deep into the crust of Purina, the dog food planet, and mined the hell out of that dog food.

    Or, OK, maybe they were just transporting it. Either way, they only had it to sell, not to give to dog passengers.

    All of these explanations for the dog food are canon at the same time as far as I’m concerned.

    in reply to: Would you consider the Boys from the Dwarf as 'heroes'? #236164
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Judging them at the point of death wouldn’t avoid the parent issue, because regardless of when the judgement takes place, The Inquisitor still erases their entire life, and therefore erases any children they had.

    Children who The Inquisitor may have already judged worthy, or replaced.

    Because even if the new person still has a child, still has them at the same time, and has them with the same person, the fact that the parent is a different person guarantees the child will also be a different person.

    in reply to: Would you consider the Boys from the Dwarf as 'heroes'? #236154
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Uh, I meant to say “nature over nurture”, obvs.

    in reply to: Would you consider the Boys from the Dwarf as 'heroes'? #236153
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    It’s probably easier to assume that The Inquisitor hadn’t got round to inquisiting Hitler (or most of the people in history) by the time he got to Red Dwarf.

    Although that does raise the question of what Inqy does if he ends of replacing the parent of someone he’s already replaced. He has to redo the child, I guess.

    2 ofher thoughts:

    – The Inquisitor is very definitely deluded about the importance of nature over nature. Deep down he knows that someone’s environment is far more crucial in making them the person they are than their genes, which is why he doesn’t replace Rimmer when he makes that argument, but he’d never admit it. He could have replaced Hitler and changed nothing.

    – The judgement is clearly not done according to how good or moral a person you are, but your sense of personal achievement, which basically makes The Inquisitor Ayn Rand. The Inquisitor would erase Nelson Mandela for being humble about the massive ways he changed the world for the better, but leave Hitler alone for how much he “achieved” making his genocidal ideals a reality. That’s what makes The Inquisitor such a great villain. He genuinely believes he’s doing the universe a favour with his judgements, but he’s inherently too much of an arsehole to come up with a system that is genuinely fair, and ends up killing countless innocents.

    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Hollister doesn’t really understand the rules. He’s Dennis the Doughnut Boy, remember?

    Or, please accept one of the following explanations:

    • Pets aren’t allowed, but assistance/working animals are.
    • The “No pets” rule only applies to prisoners.
    • Dog food was kept in storage as an emergency food for the human crew, because JMC are cheap.
    • Hollister was just joking.
    • Other people had smuggled dogs aboard in the past, and they brought the dog food on board then.
    • Pete isn’t canon.

    I mean, even Pete itself contradicts the “No pets” thing, because bird guy is able to bring Pete aboard while he’s still in bird form, and nobody ever confiscated him.

    Or maybe there was a line where they say that he was keeping Pete a total secret this whole time, but like hell I’m going to rewatch the episodes to check.

    in reply to: Does anybody have the full image of this? #236036
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I think we need to make it clear that “I can’t swallow that the Dwarfers would bump into so many other sentient beings out in deep space” and “I prefer the atmosphere and tone of the show when it seems that the crew are alone” are distinct complaints.

    For the former, well, nothing about the show makes 100% logical sense if you dwell on it. You can decry how unlikely it is for Red Dwarf to meet other ships or settlements in the Dave era, but even in Series 1-2, when you consider how impossibly massive and empty space is, the chance that they would even stumble across a single moon is (ahem) astronomically small, let alone stumble across the Nova 5 or another ship that has an AI that Holly can play correspondence chess with.

    So trust me, if you can accept that an entire species of humanoid cats can evolve from just a single pregnant cat over just 3 million years and within the confines of a spaceship, leaving just 1 or 2 members on the ship at the exact time that the radiation has become safe, then you can buy when they bump into the odd human.

    As for the latter complaint… there’s only so many stories you can tell and make funny with just the main cast, the ship, and no outside influence. Perhaps there are still some places they could still go with that idea, but no way would the show have the longevity and broad appeal it has without GELFs, simulants, mechanoids, and yes, the occasional human. (Except the Enconium crew. Fuck those guys.)

    Though really, if you’re part of Red Dwarf fandom now, your opinion probably isn’t so extreme that you want Red Dwarf to always be Series 1 style, you just want the ratio of busy to empty pushed the other way a bit. Fair enough I suppose.

    Wait, where was I going with this?

    in reply to: Does anybody have the full image of this? #235894
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I too am seriously annoyed at the show when:

    • An entertaining variety of stuff happens in a series.
    • Character development occurs.
    • An episode happens which isn’t primarily about how sad and lonely Lister is all the time.
    • There’s technically an opportunity to do an episode which would either immediately end the show or make every episode that comes after it overwhelmingly glum, and Doug doesn’t take it.
    in reply to: What if ITV had produced Red Dwarf instead of the BBC? #235836
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Look, flanl3, if you’re not willing to wear a utility belt full of various sarcastic props at all times, then you’re not truly committed to the cause of pedantry.

    in reply to: What if ITV had produced Red Dwarf instead of the BBC? #235817
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    If you ever meet one of these “anything that’s filmed is a film” wankers out in the wild, just say “would you like a bag of crisps?”, and then hand them a bag of burnt paper.

    in reply to: Episode/s with the worst audience? #235816
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I suggested, “A sitcom is like seeing a recording of a play, or a standup special. You wouldn’t hate the audience so much if you were sitting in it.”

    He countered, “Yes I would. The other audience members are the price you pay for going to see a comedian perform.”

    Oh my god, just reading this almost physically hurt me. Imagine thinking that the ideal stand up comedy experience would just be you and the comedian alone in a room together. That’s the personal hell of comedians and comedy fans alike.

    At least you can make the argument that an audience isn’t necessary for plays, where there’s a metaphorical wall between the audience and the actors, but stand up? Fucking hell.

    Also, I’m pretty sure the price you pay for going to see a comedian perform is… the cost of the ticket?

    in reply to: What if ITV had produced Red Dwarf instead of the BBC? #235797
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Broadchurch isn’t a sitcom.

    Not really relevant to the discussion, but nonetheless a fun fact to know. Use it to break the ice at parties!

    in reply to: What if ITV had produced Red Dwarf instead of the BBC? #235788
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    HTML, you smeghead!

    *shakes fist*

    I genuinely think that if one of those Laurel and Hardy films had been a TV series instead, it would be regarded as a sitcom. “Sitcom” is an incredibly broad church. That’s all I’m saying really.

    in reply to: What if ITV had produced Red Dwarf instead of the BBC? #235752
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    The League of Gentlemen is a unique prospect for sure. I’d say Mr. Bean is less ambiguously a sitcom in how it focuses on just one character.

    It seems odd to bring up Mr. Bean’s sporadic broadcast schedule as an argument against it being a sitcom. I’m pretty sure expectations about series orders apply to most of television – including sketch shows – not just sitcoms!

    But, eh. Genre definitions are vague and subjective anyway. Mr. Bean certainly has some very sketchy (so to speak) elements. I just saw that it easily fit the common definition of a sitcom and didn’t fit the common definition of a sketch show.

    in reply to: Chuckle Brothers Thread #235746
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Pretty cool that they did that. Shame they didn’t put up more episodes than 6, given that only Series 1-3 of Chucklevision are available commercially, but I’ll take it!

    in reply to: What if ITV had produced Red Dwarf instead of the BBC? #235745
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    If you don’t count Mr. Bean as a sitcom, then I have no idea what definition of “sitcom” you’re using.

    It’s not a sketch show for sure, because the defining feature of a sketch show is that its episodes are comprised of many short segments which are mostly unrelated to each other and feature different characters and settings. Every episode of Mr. Bean is, from beginning to end, about the same guy, bumbling his way through his everyday life, to humourous effect. It’s a sitcom.

    There aren’t even really any other sub-genres of TV comedy you could fit it into. Who here dares to make the argument that Mr. Bean is really a mockumentary? A comedy drama? Panel game? Stand up? Political satire?

    On another note, reading that Wikipedia article taught me that Mr. Bean was first broadcast over 6 years, but only had 15 episodes – and one of those was a Best Of compilation.

    So, was Mr. Bean the ’90s equivalent of a prestige drama, or did they film it in stop-motion?

    in reply to: Complain about Series XIII #235586
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I generally don’t like to judge pre-release promo pics too harshly, but… I really don’t like that Craig, Chris and Danny all just have their natural hairstyles. Danny could have at least shaved his beard, surely? It’s clear they’re trying to make up for it by having Robert wear all 3 of the others’ hair extensions at the same time, but that’s just more conspicuous if anything.

    Also, it took me a while, but I realised what’s so off about Rimmer’s H. It’s in quotes. “H”. No idea why they’ve done that. Hopefully it’s just something to do with the story of a particular episode and not a general change.

    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Getting back to the OP for a second, I just wanted to mention that they also wiped Lister’s memory in M-Corp, so it’s clear that Red Dwarf having the ability to alter the memories of living people is not a one-off fudge, but deliberately consistent.

    in reply to: Technology #234745
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Intergalactic space travel.

    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Whoa, those look great!

    in reply to: Why was my topic removed? #234543
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    TONY HAWKS: Failed to denounce Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 5, the first and only game in the series which made the player feel like they had the skateboarding skills of Tony Hawks.

    in reply to: What will happen if one of the cast dies? #234524
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I will be very sad.

    in reply to: On Lister having his appendix removed twice…. #234337
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Lister was given a new appendix when he traveled to the gender-flipped universe in Parallel Universe.

    Because simply being in the universe gave him the permanent ability to get pregnant; this appendix idea is far less stupid than that.

    in reply to: Would you watch a Red Dwarf "reboot"? #234336
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    it’d probably end up like that ghastly Ghostbusters remake

    You mean it’d be a hugely enjoyable new take on the core concept of Red Dwarf, released 27 years after the most recent regular series, when all hope of reuniting the original cast for a non-reboot continuation has been lost anyway?

    OK, well I was sceptical about the idea of a Red Dwarf reboot in general, but you’ve convinced me!

    in reply to: On Lister having his appendix removed twice…. #234328
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Asclepius was about to give Lister a third appendix until Rimmer and Kryten RUDELY interrupted him.

    in reply to: Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions #234294
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    To me, the lack of an audience was really felt in episode 1, but it wasn’t too noticeable in episodes 2 and 3. So doing it either way wouldn’t quite work.

    Actually, imagine if episode 1 had a studio audience, but then the audience was absent from the moment they go into the “real” world? That could have been an amazing way to add to the misdirection of the plot.

    Or it could have been terrible. I don’t know, I’m just some asshole on the internet.

    in reply to: Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions #234249
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Just to join in with the “at the time it went out” perspective, I distinctly remember how I felt when Back to Earth first broadcast. I was delighted to see ANY new Red Dwarf, but I was also really underwhelmed.

    Outside of episode 2 the laughs were very thin on the ground, and the lack of a live audience – despite there still being gaps left for their reactions – made it feel especially awkward. The performances in a lot of scenes – such as the sneeze ironing scene or Rimmer dancing while the others were attacked by the squid – just felt kind of forced, illiciting a “this seems like it should be funny – why isn’t it funny?” reaction from me.

    I still firmly enjoyed it overall – the comedy in episode 2 and the atmosphere of episode 3 helped with that – but I still couldn’t avoid being disappointed that it didn’t feel like proper Red Dwarf.

    in reply to: Would you watch a Red Dwarf porn film? #234240
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Kryten 2seX4BJ 532Pnis

    The Scat

    in reply to: Would you watch a Red Dwarf porn film? #234237
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    The best regular title variant I can think of is:

    Bred Dwarf: Bareback to Girth

    Created by Knob Grant and Doug Nailer

    This is why I’m not in the porno writing biz.

    in reply to: Would you watch a Red Dwarf porn film? #234230
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I’m not against stupid threads at all. They can be harmless fun if you approach them with the right mindset. I just wish they weren’t framed as simple Yes/No questions. Throwing out the word “Discuss” afterwards doesn’t really make up for that.

    Because of course we would watch a Red Dwarf porn film. We’re fans; we’re guaranteed to look into anything Red Dwarf related, just out of curiosity… and so we can discuss it in forums.

    What you need to be asking are questions which actually prompt discussion, or at least have the potential to. Such as:

    • Which pornstars would you cast as the main characters?
    • Which would be the best production company and writers for the film?
    • Which supporting characters would appear?
    • Which combinations of characters would get to fuck?
    • What would everyone’s porn parody name be?
    • What would the story need to be in order to make it plausible that Kryten and The Cat would end up double-teaming Lister?
    • Can you think of a parody title that’s at least better than “Pink Dwarf”?
    • Is a porn parody literally the only context in which Kochanski or female Holly would reappear in Red Dwarf?

    Sorry, what’s this about clocks?

    in reply to: Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions #234228
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Red Dwarf Series 1 is easily in my Top 8 Red Dwarf Series.

    in reply to: We say good things about the Dave-era #233894
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    While we’re on the subject of sets (and to segue into a more unabashed “good thing about the Dave era”), the set and costume design in Skipper was amazing.

    I’d be totally fine with a Series XIII where Red Dwarf looked as it did in that final parallel universe, and Rimmer is wearing his Series 1 outfit the entire time.

    in reply to: We say good things about the Dave-era #233847
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I’m glad we had that key scene in Out of Time that rewrote Rimmer’s backstory to explain why he wanted to fight. Oh, there wasn’t one. And the episode wasn’t any better or any worse for it.

    Ah, the curse of “replying without refreshing the page in a while” strikes again!

    Just to address this particular point, the comparison with Out of Time seems unfair. In Out of Time, Rimmer receives new information – that in the future he completely crosses the line and starts palling around with Hitler – and this inspires him to stand up and fight back. In The Beginning, Rimmer receives new information – that his dad isn’t who he thought he was – and this inspires him to come up with a plan to beat the simulants. It doesn’t matter that one is technically “rewritten backstory” and one isn’t, because in both episodes Rimmer is given some fresh insight into his identity which upsets the way he sees himself.

    in reply to: We say good things about the Dave-era #233846
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    OK, to be fair, I was being a touch disingenuous with my response. I don’t think anyone seriously wanted Rimmer to come out of The Beginning a completely humble, generous, nice guy. What they want is a subtle softening of Rimmer’s character over time, so that he’s back to being about as likable as he was in the latter Grant/Naylor era.

    However, it seems to me that such a softening is wanted regardless of circumstance, and The Beginning is just being latched onto as a potential “logical explanation” for it happening. That’s a bit different to a softening being outright required as a consequence of The Beginning.

    Imagine, if you will, The Beginning never happened (!), but over the course of Series XI and XII Rimmer had gradually become a lot less of a bastard, would anyone be going “This doesn’t make any sense! Nothing specific happened to cause this!”? I don’t think they would; they’d just accept Rimmer’s character subtly changing as a natural effect of being around the same people for long enough and going through sci-fi adventures in general.

    So, I think we should be able to express dissatisfaction with Rimmer’s characterisation without feeling the need to blame The Beginning.

    in reply to: We say good things about the Dave-era #233825
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    The reveal isn’t “there to parody a scene”, it’s there as a core part of Rimmer’s story in the episode. The parody element is just an execution detail.

    Ultimately, the Rimmer Sr. reveal was never portrayed as something that would fundamentally change Rimmer as a person in the long term, and it worked well for the episode it was in, so it was worth doing.

    Because let’s be real: Red Dwarf is not a space opera, it’s a sitcom. While the sitcom format isn’t immune to characters developing over time, it’s also expected that characters will stay more or less the same, and that not every major event or revelation that occurs will arbitrarily change a character’s personality in the long term.

    Did Rimmer’s experience of requited love on the Holoship fundamentally change him? Did Lister’s experience of giving birth to twins and then having to give them up fundamentally change him? Did Kryten’s time as a human fundamentally change him? Did Rimmer regaining the ability to touch things after years of essentially being a ghost fundamentally change him? Did Rimmer’s experience with his other self in Me^2 fundamentally change him? Did Rimmer dying and coming back as a being of pure light in the first place fundamentally change him?

    OK, the answer to that last one is “yes” obviously, but it’s still not as immediate or major as you might expect.

    It just seems like you’re picking on this character development in particular for not having more obvious lasting consequences, when there’s no particular reason why it should.

    After all, failing to grow as a person despite being given ample opportunity for continued introspection is just who Rimmer is.

    (I do think that him having a secret message from his dad stashed away all this time was a pretty lazy way to do the reveal, though.)

    in reply to: Idea for an episode. #233782
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    IT’S EATING MY FACE

    Dave Lister awakes with no memory to find time behaving very oddly. Is the mysterious genius Kryten 2X4B 532P behind it? And what is that GELF doing?

    in reply to: We say good things about the Dave-era #233773
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I just wanted to jump in and say that I am absolutely cool with both the Howard reveal and the Dad reveal.

    Regarding Howard, it was Rimmer’s idea of his brothers, and his treatment as the youngest child, which created his inferiority-superiority complex, not the reality of them. The revelation in Trojan that Howard is also a failure in life is a good opportunity for some self-reflection on Rimmer’s part (not that they do anything with it), but ultimately it’s not going to change Rimmer’s core personality, because his neuroses are already too well ingrained.

    Regarding Rimmer Sr., the revelation that he isn’t Rimmer’s biological father justifiably doesn’t change who Rimmer is in the long term, because his character was shaped by his upbringing, not his genes. However, given how entrenched the idea of “good breeding” would be in the kind of middle-to-upper class background Rimmer came from, the Dungo reveal does make Rimmer reconsider his feelings about his identity and agency, even if only for one episode, and I appreciate that.

    in reply to: Favorite Deleted Scene #233768
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    The alternate ending to Out of Time where they drink piss.

    Except I’d want to keep the original cliffhanger ending, so I’d put it at the beginning of Tikka to Ride instead.

    I’d also add in a new scene immediately after it: an extended version of the final scene of Rimmerworld.

    ——————-

    RIMMER: Rimmerworld was weeks ago. We’re far more concerned at the moment about the quite hideous thing that’s happened to Lister.

    PAST CAT: He’s right bud, where are you?

    PAST LISTER: Yeah, where am I? I wanna know!

    (The past crew dematerialise.)

    (Lister walks in.)

    LISTER: I can’t believe you served me piss, Kryten! I was so sick, it was hideous!

    KRYTEN: I’m sorry, sir. I should have realised you were too weak and stupid and immature and ugly to handle drinks made from Urine Recyc, which is totally safe for human consumption and delicious.

    LISTER: Ahhh, that’s OK, you know I still love you. Man, I could really go for a curry right now.

    in reply to: Should Rimmer get a costume redesign for Series XIII? #233679
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    All post-Future Echoes Rimmer hairstyles are just hopelessly chasing perfection.

    Flap Jack
    Participant

    BACK IN THE RED:

    Our heroes return to Red Dwarf to find that the nanobots have not only rebuilt the ship, but also resurrected the old crew. Unfortunately, the 3 million year gap between deaths and their resurrections means that the nanos botched the job, and the crewmembers all came back as mindless zombies with an insatiable craving for flesh and blood. They try to take out all the zombies, but thanks to the crew now numbering over 1,000 rather than 169 like it was in Series 1, they are quickly overcome.

    They manage to escape, but only after Cat is bitten by Zombie Hollister. The four of them spend 24 hours holed up in Lister and Rimmer’s sleeping quarters, but when it becomes apparent that Cat is about to turn, Lister is forced to kill him to protect himself and Kochanski.

    Seeing no other solution, they manage to escape through the air ducts, set Red Dwarf to self-destruct, and then escape in Starbug moments before the detonation.

    But oh no! Zombie Rimmer somehow snuck aboard Starbug, and launches a surprise attack on Lister! He’s just about to bite when Kryten manages to grab the zombie from behind. Kryten pulls Rimmer away from Lister for just long enough for Kochanski to aim a bazookoid, and it kills the Rimmer Zombie, but Kryten is also caught in the blast. Kryten dies in Lister and Kochanski’s arms.

    in reply to: Idea for an episode. #233659
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    SKUTTER ISLAND

    The Dwarfers finally make it to Fiji, only to discover that Skutters have become the dominant life form on Earth. Lister and The Cat are put into a zoo; Kryten and Rimmer are classified as second-class citizens and made into slave farmhands.

    While Kryten is putting scuba gear on all of the sheep and Rimmer is doing his best to convince two horses to fuck, Talkie Toaster, Snacky and Taiwan Tony all sneak off of Red Dwarf, and stage a daring rescue of Lister and The Cat. They then all reunite with Rimmer and Kryten, manage to overpower the Skutter Guards, and interrupt a meeting of The Council of Skutter Lords.

    The Lords are at the mercy of the Red Dwarf crew, and Lister is halfway through an inspiring speech calling for the freedom and equal treatment of all humans and humanoid beings when he suddenly pauses, realising something about the head Skutter Lord.

    “Wait… no smegging way… Bob? Is that you???”

    “Heh, so you finally acknowledge me, do you? Well done, idiot. I was only the most loyal, hard-working Skutter on the whole ship!”

    “But… why would you do this to us, man? After all we’ve been though together? We’re friends!”

    “Hah, friends, you say?! Now that’s real comedy! Would a ‘friend’ ignore when a colleague is constantly abusing and overworking you? Would a ‘friend’ expect you to risk your life doing menial tasks for them while they’re in prison, and give you nothing in return? Would a ‘friend’ not look for you, not care, not even notice when you go completely missing for years?! You lot should count yourself lucky that I was kind enough to keep you alive!”

    At that moment, a voice is heard coming from the room behind the council chamber.

    “Bob… is something going on in there?”

    The chamber door opens, and through it comes another human being.

    It’s Kochanski.

    Gobsmacked, the Dwarfers all lower their weapons slightly, and the Skutter Guards use this moment of distraction to burst in, disarm and restrain the crew. Bob barks orders for them to be imprisoned immediately for treason, and that they’ll be sentenced to death, all while Kochanski is frozen in astonishment at what she’s seeing.

    Later, in the cells, Kochanski comes to visit Lister and the others. She explains how she took Bob the Skutter and his wife with her when she fled Red Dwarf all those years ago, how they happened upon a wormhole that took them back here, how they discovered that human life had been completely wiped out, how they had managed to use Lister’s Fiji dreams as a blueprint for a rebuild society… except for all of the population being Skutters.

    Kochanski wistfully recalls the day she first realised that she and Bob were in love, the day Bob and his wife agreed to have an open marriage with her, the day they first kissed, the day they exchanged rings, and they day they first tried 69ing and spent an hour discussing whether it was bad due to human/Skutter sexual compatibility or just because 69ing was overhyped in general.

    The four of them plead with Kochanski to help them escape. Tears streaming down her face, she says:

    “I’m so sorry, guys… I know we didn’t part on good terms, but I never wanted anything like this. This society didn’t seem so authoritarian when we were building it, I swear… but it’s too late now. If I defy the Skutter Lords, they’ll just kill me too. I… can’t help you… I’m sorry”.

    Kochanski then rushes off without looking any more at the prisoners. Lister, Kryten, The Cat, Rimmer, Talkie, Snacky and Tony spend one last night trying to put whatever previous grievances they’ve had with each other behind them, and enjoy themselves as best they can while eating their last meal.

    In the morning, the Dwarfers and bound and gagged by the Skutter Guards, and dragged into the execution room. Bob is there to proceed over the execution, along with a crowd of jeering, bloodthirsty civilian Skutters. In the middle of the room is eight electric chairs, each one built overnight and custom designed to kill mechanical beings as well as organic ones.

    Just as Kryten is pondering the disparity in the number of chairs, an explanation appears, as the door on the other side of the room opens, and through it comes Kochanski, who is also bound, gagged and being pulled along by Skutter Guards.

    “Krissie, no!” Lister tries and fails to say through his gag.

    “She tried to kill me.” Bob interjects, “While we were in bed together. My own love… I should have known. All humans are duplicitous scum, only interested in protecting their own. Well, I won’t be making that mistake again…. Exe-skutioners, KILL THEM. I don’t care if they have any ‘final words’, just get this over with.”

    And with that command, the guards wrestle the prisoners into their electric chairs, remove their bindings, and clamp them to the chairs. Bob motions to the executioner to ready the electric chair activation switch.

    “Goodbye, bastards. I shan’t miss you.”

    The switch is thrown.

    Just as the switch is thrown, the room is suddenly submerged in darkness as all of the lights turn off. Now without power, the electric chair’s bindings release their prisoners.

    A high pitched voice pierces the room:

    “ATTENTION, EARTHLINGS. THIS IS THE QUAGAAR LIBERATION FLEET. YOUR MAINS ELECTRICITY HAS BEEN DISABLED AND YOUR DEFENCES HAVE BEEN NEUTRALIZED. OFFER YOURSELVES UP FOR SURRENDER AND WE WILL SPARE YOUR LIVES. EARTH IS NOW UNDER QUAGAAR CONTROL.”

    As the message repeats, the Dwarfers quietly sneak out of the room under the cover of darkness. They emerge to find an open battle breaking out between the Skutters and the Quagaars, scaly green creatures with long and dextrous tentacles, crystalline battle armour, and heavy-looking laser cannons.

    Battle Skutters left and right are quickly dispatched by the highly trained invaders, all while Rimmer, Kochanski, Lister, Cat, Kryten, Snacky, Tony and Talkie run frantically to reach Red Dwarf.

    Just as they reach the entrance to the ship, a Quagaar warrior jumps out at them, laser cannon primed.

    “AND WHERE DO YOU THINK YOU’RE GOING, EARTH-BEINGS? YIELD, NOW.”

    Lister, Rimmer, The Cat, Kochanski, Snacky and Kryten sigh and start to raise their hands, when they hear Tony speak.

    “No.”

    The others stand aside as Tony pushes himself forward to face the Quagaar.

    “WHAT DID YOU SAY, VENDING MACHINE? DO YOU DARE DEFY THE MIGHT OF THE QUAGAAR RACE?”

    “I said no! I wirr not ret you hurt my fliends!” Tony responds, adding in a whisper to the others “Lun, go on without me. It’s your onry chance. I’rr hord him off.”

    With a solemn nod, Lister and the others dart towards the entrance to Red Dwarf. Tony is rolling towards the Quagaar now, at the highest speed it can manage – 5 miles per hour. The Quagaar is firing lasers frantically into Tony. Tony slows as he takes more and more laser blasts, but he doesn’t stop. Tony reaches the Quagaar, confidently falls forward and crushes him.

    As smoke billows out of a rapidly expiring Tony, he manages one final utterance:

    “An independent Taiwan… I’m nealry there.”

    In the background, the Skutter society is up in flames, Bob is dead, and the Quagaars have delivered a swift victory. Red Dwarf takes off with all of its surviving crew in tow, never to return again.

    “BY THE WAY” the Quagaar announcer says over the loudspeaker “WE ARE ABSOLUTELY, 100% ALIENS TO YOU. WE ARE NOT DERIVED FROM EARTH BIOLOGY OR TECHNOLOGY IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. JUST SO YOU KNOW.”

    Back on Red Dwarf, the crew are digesting the events that just transpired.

    “Do you think they followed us to Earth somehow?” ponders Rimmer.

    “It seems likely, sir.” responds Kryten, “They must have been tracking us all these years, ever since we picked up their garbage pod.”

    “I knew that roast chicken tasted funny!” says Cat.

    “They must have planned it all along.” says Kochanski, “Disguise their tracker as a Red Dwarf garbage pod, wait for us to ‘find’ it, and then wait patiently for us to lead them to Earth. They must have been annoyed when the nanobots stole the ship, but they never gave up waiting.”

    “In a way, we’re lucky they did! If it weren’t for them, we would all be dead now!” says Snacky.

    “Yeah, I guess you’re right” says Lister, glumly. “If only we all could have made it.”

    Lister carefully places an old Chow Mein box in front of a grave which reads “Taiwan Tony” just above where “Kristine Kochanski” has been scratched out.

    “Goodbye, man. Thanks for everything.”

    They all bow their heads in silence for 3 minutes before the next person speaks.

    “Would anybody like any toast?”

    in reply to: When did you first read the novels? #233636
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Cat didn’t come across too clearly to whoever drew this cover:

    That’s one of the best things I’ve ever seen.

    in reply to: Who's your favourite member of the fan club? #233625
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Oh, let’s not play favourites. Anyone who’s so dedicated to Red Dwarf that they’d pay £15 a year is a true patriot. They’re all heroes in my eyes.

    Flap Jack
    Participant

    the plot

    Well there you go. The only reply this thread needed.

    Flap Jack
    Participant

    In Lemons, why couldn’t they power the remote with apples or something?

    in reply to: Should Rimmer get a costume redesign for Series XIII? #233614
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Err… the light bee only gained the ability to become a hologram in softlight mode when Legion upgraded it? Yeah, sure, let’s go with that.

    Please do not make any follow-up… contradictory statements.

    in reply to: I like uniformity! #233613
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    What if turns out the custom DVD covers are in the same place that Kochanski is?

    in reply to: Should Rimmer get a costume redesign for Series XIII? #233607
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    And yet Entangled has him walk through a wall as if his light bee just isn’t there, or as if he really is walking away from it and they couldn’t be arsed to add it floating there. What else could that shake be when he returns if not realigning with it?

    In softlight mode, the light bee itself becomes hologrammatic, and can therefore pass through stuff along with Rimmer.

    Please do not ask any follow-up questions.

    in reply to: Jokes you don't/didn't get #233502
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    When Cat says “I’ve given pleasure to the world” he’s using the classical definition of world, “all of known existence”, rather than the modern definition, “planet”.

    in reply to: Should Rimmer get a costume redesign for Series XIII? #233358
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    More outfit variety for Lister too, please. A man is more than a leather jacket.

    in reply to: What if ITV had produced Red Dwarf instead of the BBC? #233310
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    True story: I only watched Red Dwarf for the first time because my best friend showed me the videos. He had been introduced to it by his parents (we were teens/pre-teens at the time).

    We only watched Series 1-2, but we watched them chronologically, starting with The End. As you can see, it put me off completely and I never watched Red Dwarf ever again!

    I remember when I first heard the name of the show, I assumed it was an epic fantasy series.

    in reply to: Should Rimmer get a costume redesign for Series XIII? #233306
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Surely it would be on a scale of Kryten to The Cat, since Kryten almost never wears different clothing minus when he went on holiday to Z Deck and other rare occasions

    It’s a fair point, but with very rare exception, Kryten’s outfits aren’t really “clothes” per se, so he’s not on the scale. Rimmer’s clothes are a simulation, but they’re a simulation of clothes.

    He’s hard light so really, he could wear his own clothes (pre death) and his costume could be real, save a bit of processing power on Red Dwarf and get a dispenser to give him a IRL uniform.

    Interesting idea, but given that it would only save energy if the light bee restricted itself to generating his hands, neck and head (as opposed to generating the rest of his body as naked), would Rimmer even be able to feel anything in the rest of his body, or stop the real physical uniform from just falling to the ground? “Hardlight” definitely implies you only get the hardness if you’re generating the light.

    I wonder if he was so inclined he could take off his jacket and lend it to Lister. Would Lister then be impenetrable with his hard light shell?

    Come to think of it, is anyone wearing clothes on Red Dwarf? Maybe they just have hard light projected clothes and the reason they wear the same thing all the time is that they can’t be arsed to model any new clothes.

    Rimmer wouldn’t be able to give his jacket to Lister, because Rimmer’s body and clothes are all just one projection that the light bee surrounds itself with. Pretty fair to presume that a light bee wouldn’t be able to project a hologram if there’s a solid object between the bee and the intended location of the hologram – e.g. if you locked Rimmer in a room (and he couldn’t convert to softlight or whatever), then he wouldn’t be able to escape by just projecting himself outside the room.

    Plus, Rimmer’s light bee is – as far as we know – the only hardlight hologram projection tech they have on board, so trying to generate hardlight objects for other crewmembers to use separate from Rimmer would be quite a challenge.

    in reply to: Who had more control in the early years? #233286
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    “Is Snacky A Libertarian” – the greatest thread in the history of Ganymede.tv, locked by Ian Symes after 12,239 pages of heated debate,

    in reply to: Should Rimmer get a costume redesign for Series XIII? #233284
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    On a scale of Rimmer to The Cat, how often do your change your clothes?

    I wonder how Rimmer administers changes to his appearance nowadays, given that the times we’ve seen him do it, he does so by asking Holly.

    “Having to ask another sentient being to change you is kind of awkward and Rimmer is really high strung” is actually a decent explanation for the lack of costume changes.

    in reply to: The Truth Behind The Quanderhorn Xperimentations? #233249
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Ah, it looks like they fixed it!

    So, just for reasons of HISTORICAL IMPORTANCE, here’s an archived version:

    Rob who?

    in reply to: Who had more control in the early years? #233246
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I hope we get a flashback explaining why Snacky wasn’t in Mechocracy.

    Maybe he didn’t register to vote on time. That would make for a funny, exciting scene: Snacky being politely turned away from the Red Dwarf polling station.

    in reply to: Should Rimmer get a costume redesign for Series XIII? #233190
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    YES.

    Of course, that means the current Rimmer will have to be killed and replaced with a new Rimmer, but it’s worth it.

    in reply to: Who had more control in the early years? #233167
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Why would anyone even design a robot doctor that has four flashing buttons on its front, is a massive fucking blob, and has a flipper spinning on its head? They wouldn’t, that’s for sure, but it doesn’t stop the whole crew from thinking it’s him.

    I mean, it was probably a bad idea for me to go down the “the robot designs should be totally logical” rabbit hole, but there’s quite a difference between building a robot doctor that looks like a chunky, generic robot from classic sci-fi and building a robot doctor based on the design brief “What if Freddy Krueger was a Sentinel?”.

    in reply to: I have a possibly rare red dwarf chrome sticker #233152
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I guess at this point you might as well wait for the Blu-ray set just to see if it’s a better alternative.

    in reply to: Who had more control in the early years? #233150
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Why would anyone even design a robot doctor that looks and sounds so terrifying? 100% Asclepius is a haunted house attraction that got infected with a violence virus, killed the real Asclepius and then assumed his identity.

    in reply to: Who had more control in the early years? #233136
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Maybe Asclepius was going to transplant a kidney from Cat to Lister.

    Maybe he was going to transplant the kidneys which were out in the open to Lister.

    Maybe he was going to transplant Cat’s lungs into Lister’s arse and then transplant Lister’s legs onto Cat’s face.

    The episode doesn’t tell us. It just shows Asclepius getting up to some ambiguously dodgy business.

    in reply to: Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions #233135
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I suppose it’s inevitable that an ‘Unpopular Opinion’ thread would ultimately lead to “Timewave is good, actually.” but… sorry, I… seriously though?

    Really we could close the thread at this point, but I would like to at least see if anyone’s going to come out as a fan of Pete Part 2.

    in reply to: Who had more control in the early years? #233130
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    If him having a pair of kidneys is enough evidence that he was a good guy just trying to help, why did he take The Cat? The Cat didn’t need a kidney, nor was he missing any afterwards (and if Asclepius were doing a Cat-to-Lister transplant, he would have only taken one kidney anyway).

    But, yeah, fair distinction as far as Queeg is concerned. If there was proper indication in the episode that Asclepius was a goodie all along, I’d agree with you, but ultimately all that’s revealed was that he hadn’t yet mutilated Lister when Rimmer and Kryten arrive.

    in reply to: I have a possibly rare red dwarf chrome sticker #233129
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    £40 isn’t too expensive to justify a purchase of 3 series of Red Dwarf with a heap of great extras (even if the episodes themselves are the worse versions), but it’s still very expensive. The Bodysnatcher Collection came out over 10 years ago, and I’ve no idea what it’s original RRP was, but getting a used copy now has got to be as expensive now as a new copy was in November 2007, after you could get it for less than £15 new in 2011. That’s… not good.

    Also, you can get the individual Series 1-3 DVDs (which have the definitive versions of the episodes, with just as many – though different – extras) for just £2.50 collectively from CeX. You could literally buy Series 1, 2 and 3 almost 17 times for the price of 1 Bodysnatcher Collection!

    So sure, there’s obviously pricier RD merch out there, but Bodysnatcher is definitely up there as far as DVDs go.

    in reply to: Who had more control in the early years? #233123
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Oh, whether the show is now too silly in general is another matter entirely. I just can’t anally quantity that.

    I will say that the Dave era isn’t entirely free of serious stories or moments. Back to Earth, Fathers & Suns, The Beginning, Krysis and M-Corp all have dramatic elements to them.

    I’m still not sure how Asclepius is a villain?

    I like how you question the villain status of Asclepius – a scary-looking robot who knocks Lister and The Cat unconscious, kidnaps them, and prepares to perform invasive surgeries on them without their consent, all while creepily speaking to people who aren’t there – but didn’t question the villain status of Queeg.

    It’s important to remember that “Oh, Asclepius was actually trying to help Lister!” is really just a fan theory, not something which was confirmed in the episode. As far as we know he was just planning to remove and add organs to Lister/Cat at random, because Asclepius is a badly malfunctioning robot.

    But, even if Asclepius was secretly only trying his best to be good and kind, the fact is that he still functions in the role of the villain for that part of the episode, so he still counts as a villain.

    in reply to: Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions #233099
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    The best that particular interior has looked or the best interior they series has ever had?

    The best the collection of Interior sets for Red Dwarf has looked overall.

    I don’t mind the more Star Trek-esque aesthetics of certain sets or series – mining or no, it IS a giant, high-tech, futuristic spaceship with a lot of varied facilities – but I just really like the red/orange colour scheme of X in particular.

    in reply to: I have a possibly rare red dwarf chrome sticker #233096
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    You don’t want to know how much The Bodysnatcher Collection playset is going for on ebay.

    in reply to: Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions #233092
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    OK, I may have another one:

    The Red Dwarf interior in Series X is the best it’s ever looked.

    in reply to: Who had more control in the early years? #233089
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I suppose I only consider characters which exist outside of a virtual or imaginary world to be “real”, so to speak. So that’s why I excluded them. I already explained why I didn’t include monsters or villains that are just clones or versions of our main 4.

    I definitely agree that the Serious/Silly binary is way too simplistic and many villains are more nuanced than that – this is just interesting to think about.

    As for Telford, I stand by my classification. The cured evildoers around him are very silly, but Telford himself is played as just a normal dude for most of the episode, and then he gets violent – but not silly (except for the specifics of Kryten’s decapitation, but that’s just one thing).

    in reply to: Who had more control in the early years? #233068
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    The good news is that I deliberately excluded the hallucination squids as being more “monster” than “villain”.

    It’s debatable whether a person who only exists as a hallucination or simulation can be considered a villain in their own right, but ultimately they derive from the crew’s minds, so wouldn’t count for this anyway.

    in reply to: The Truth Behind The Quanderhorn Xperimentations? #233066
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    If this isn’t an indication Rob is going to return to co-write Red Dwarf, I don’t know what is

    Imagine how surprised we’ll all be when Red Dwarf is put on permanent hiatus so that Doug can commit to co-writing Series 2-12 of The Quanderhorn Xperimentations.

    in reply to: Who had more control in the early years? #233058
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    This “the villains are too silly nowadays” complaint has me wondering how this has trended over time. So let’s do this (I’ll exclude monsters with no particular personality and villains that are just versions of the main characters):

    • Confidence/Paranoia (Confidence & Paranoia) – Silly
    • Queeg (Queeg) – Secretly Silly but played as serious.
    • The Polymorph (Polymorph) – Serious, but with a silly facade.
    • Hudzen-10 (The Last Day) – Serious
    • The Simulant Convict (Justice) – Serious
    • The Wax Droids (Meltdown) – Silly
    • The Inquisitor (The Inquisitor) – Serious
    • Dr. Lanstrom (Quarantine) – Serious
    • The Psirens (Psirens) – Serious, but with a silly facade.
    • Legion (Legion) – Serious
    • The Rogue Simulants (Gunmen of the Apocalypse) – Serious
    • The Surviving Simulant (Rimmerworld) – Serious
    • The GELFs (Emohawk – Polymorph II) – Silly
    • Captain Voorhese (Stoke Me A Clipper) – Silly.
    • The GELFs (Ouroboros) – They don’t really do enough to say?
    • The Simulant Captain / GELF Tribesman (Beyond A Joke) – Serious
    • Epideme (Epideme) – Silly
    • Captain Hollister (Back in the Red) – Kind of serious but the Dennis the Doughnut Boy thing made it silly.
    • Cassandra (Cassandra) – Serious
    • Warden Ackerman (Series VIII in general) – Silly
    • The Other, Meaner Prisoners (Krytie TV / Pete) – Silly
    • Sim Crawford (Trojan) – Serious
    • Pree (Fathers & Suns) – Serious
    • The BEGGs (Entangled) – Silly
    • The Simulants (The Beginning) – Silly
    • The Exponoids (Twentica) – Silly
    • Asclepius (Give & Take) – Serious
    • The Mercenoid (Can of Worms) – Serious
    • The Lady Cat Polymorph (Can of Worms) – Serious, but with a silly facade.
    • Professor Telford (Cured) – Serious
    • The MILFs (Siliconia) – Silly
    • Captain Ziggy / Crit Cop (Timewave) – Silly
    • Aniter (M-Corp) – Serious

    SO, provided these judgements are fair (which they may not be), this means the different eras of the show have serious and silly villains in the following proportions:

    Grant Naylor Era: 53.8% Serious / 23.1% Silly / 23.1% Mixed

    Naylor Solo Era (BBC) – 25% Serious / 62.5% Silly / 12.5 Mixed

    Naylor Solo Era (UKTV) – 50% Serious / 41.7% Silly / 8.3% Mixed

    So there, according to these incredibly scientific calculations, you have it. The Dave era proportionally has almost as many serious villains as Series 1-6, but also more villains that are more easily categorised as silly.

    However, keep in mind that this is only if we exclude the times where a member of the crew (or a version of them) has been the villain, which is inherently silly and happened a lot more in 1-VI than X-XII.

    in reply to: What if ITV had produced Red Dwarf instead of the BBC? #233048
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    – Can’t Smeg, Won’t Smeg, Red Dwarf Night, Remastered, and VHS cross-promotions with Doctor Who would never have happened.

    – Craig Charles would have presented Gladiators instead of Robot Wars, and he would have had a regular role in EastEnders rather than Coronation Street.

    – Danny John-Jules wouldn’t have been in The Story Makers and M.I. High, he would have been in… I don’t know, My Parents Are Aliens or something.

    – They wouldn’t have been able to fudge the filming schedule to redo The End, meaning The Original Assembly would now be the canon (and only) version of that episode.

    Also Red Dwarf would have been cancelled after the first series, because The End: The Original Assembly is Not Very Good.

    in reply to: What if ITV had produced Red Dwarf instead of the BBC? #233020
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    The pink policeman in Timewave would have been played by Al Murray instead of Johnny Vegas.

    in reply to: Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions #233019
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Series VIII is better and funnier than Series VII, and is truer to the spirit of Red Dwarf, which is meant to be a TV sitcom, not a cinematic comedy-drama.

    I don’t actually hold this opinion, by the way. I just figured I’d save John the trouble of posting it.

    in reply to: Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions #232949
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I don’t think there’s any real chance of that happening. The Simpsons’ longevity is due to:

    (A) It being a global mega-franchise, so merchandise and syndication sales are too great to want to stop – not true of Red Dwarf.

    (B) The actors only being needed for voice work, so it’s easier to get them to record 20+ episodes per year: no need for costumes, lighting, lengthy rehearsals, live audiences, getting all of them on set at the same time etc. – not true of Red Dwarf.

    (C) The writing/direction being shared by dozens of staff rather than forever tied to 1 or 2 people with a specific personal connection to the show – not true of Red Dwarf.

    I wouldn’t want RD to overstay its welcome either, but limiting it to just 1 more series seems too soon. It’s got more potential life in it than that!

    in reply to: We say good things about the Dave-era #232941
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    There’s not much I can say here, because while I like the Dave era a lot, the things I like about it aren’t unique to it, so I’d just be saying “I like this episode”, “Oh, and that episode”, “This bit was funny” etc.

    in reply to: Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions #232940
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    ‘Dear Dave’, ‘Entangled’ and ‘Can of Worms’ are perfectly decent episodes despite their problematic elements.

    ‘Stoke Me A Clipper’ is outright bad.

    Hayridge’s Holly is easily better and more definitive than Lovett’s Holly overall (actually, this might not be an unpopular opinion at all, but Doug doesn’t seem to agree or realise).

    Kochanski has the potential to be great as a regular character.

    ‘Bodysnatcher’ is nowhere near as good as ‘Me^2’, and as far as unmade episodes go, I feel we lost more for not getting ‘Identity Within’.

    The phrase “THE END? THE SMEG IT IS.” (along with most other instances of over-reliance on “smeg”) doesn’t actively annoy me, outside of it being an unresolved cliffhanger.

    The 2 Grant/Naylor novels are just OK.

    ‘The Last Day’ is the best episode of Red Dwarf ever.

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