Richey

[Richey]

Bugger…

[Richey]

“So, we’re going from “The Odd Couple” in space to “Whatever Happened To the Likely Lads” followed by “One Foot In the Grave” and in another 10 years “Last Of The Summer Wine”…..all in space.

Sounds good to me.”

Well, no. It would be just one episode, not the entire premise of the show :P

[Richey]

Totally agree mate. Like I said, his reviews are a great mixture of comedy and intelligent analysis. Highly recommended :)

[Richey]

> Re: that banner.

I?m trying to rack my brains, but I must have missed that period in Dwarf history when Rimmer was played by Reg Hollis from The Bill.

Looks more like Gary Linekar!

[Richey]

FAVOURITE

I – Waiting For God
II – Thanks For The Memory
III – Marooned
IV – White Hole
V – Demons & Angels
VI – Gunmen Of The Apocalypse
VII – Stoke Me A Clipper
VIII – Cassandra
BTE – Part 1

LEAST FAVOURITE

I – Confidence & Paranoia
II – Parallel Universe
III – Timeslides
IV – Meltdown
V – Terrorform
VI – Emohawk: Polymorph II
VII – Duct Soup
VIII – Pete Part 2
BTE – Part 3

NOTE: Least favourites from series I – V are still episodes I enjoy watching. Least favourites from VI – BTE are ones I would not bother watching.

[Richey]

> I keep seeing Bill Bailey?s name crop up in Holly discussions – and yet I?ve never seen anyone give a reason for why they think he?d be good. He?s great, no doubt about it, but is he really Holly? Can anyone explain why he?s the name that jumps to everyone?s mind?

Norman portrayed Holly as just slow (and then senile).
Hattie portrayed Holly as ditzy (and then senile).
Bill would be good at portraying Holly as bumbling (and senile).

My vote goes for Hattie, but I can certainly see how Bill would be good as a re-cast.

[Richey]

> Our next big quiz is Doctor Who on Wednesday 29th April, so anyone from Brum or that part of the West Midlands would be bloody welcome.

i.e. it would be a bit far to travel for everyone else :P

[Richey]

Stabby – just watched it again. You must do parts 2 and 3…please! This version works so much better, the comic timing is better and it shows that the material (of episode 1 at least) was good, but simply needed proper editing. Don’t know if parts 2 and 3 will be a similar case, but damn I’m impressed with your work here.

[Richey]

Eeewwww

[Richey]

> I personally think the last Dwarf-eske episode he wrote was probably Cassandra. Was mostly the original crew, in a typical setting. Plus it used a theory of pre-determination that only Red Dwarf can handle properly.

Agreed. Just wasn’t funny though. Get the funnies back and I’m on board for more Dwarf with dramatic plots and further sci-fi concepts. Just GET THE FARKIN’ JOKES BACK!! :P

[Richey]

> If they sort it out and use the Who formula, then it could ?possibly? be the best series to date [ironically said in BtE]. In which case a dated track would no longer be required.

But better jokes WOULD be required. Hence the challenge as far as Doug is concerned. He’s just not written anything that funny – in my opinion – for ages.

[Richey]

> Okay you?ve took that out of context? by laughter, I meant laughter track.

Ooooooooooooh! Well, in that case I’ll simply reiterate my position on laughter track/live audience comedy. I like it, it’s fun and perfectly acceptable in modern comedy. But it’s not essential. Not if the material is ball-bustingly funny on its own. Spaced always made me laugh and still does – and that has no laughter track, nor does it need one. Quality material, then, is more important than a laughter track. If it’s funny enough, you’re your own laughter track :)

[Richey]

> I personally don?t see this desperate need for laughter

How about because comedy should be funny?

> it?s as if people are clinging on desperatley to every part of the 90?s sitcom forumla and expecting Dwarf to replicate it, rather than move on with the rest of television in this decade.

There’s plenty of funny TV in this decade. TV comedies, instead of sitcoms. So there’s no reason at all that Red Dwarf can’t remain funny. Other than the fact Doug can’t seem to write decent jokes anymore.

I agree that any future Dwarf should have Doug as master over the plots, but new writers in to write the comedy and make the show funny again. Cos whether it’s more sci-fi or more drama that’s brought in, Red Dwarf is essentially a comedy show and always has been. Hence people’s ‘desperate need for laughter’. Not that unreasonable a demand from a comedy show.

[Richey]

I want to see your edit of Part 2 and Part 3 now, because your edit of part 1 is hillariously good work. A massive improvement for me, Stabby.

[Richey]

I-VI > VII > BTE > VIII

[Richey]

> Then all 3 other characters are exposed to physical pain at Lister`s hands in the typewriter scene?

I guess Doug felt it was finally time to answer that age old question of whether or not the Dwarfers are masochists. I mean, come on – Lister wears leather!! That’s the clue!

[Richey]

> I do think they could have used McGann more in Alien 3, actually.

I take it from this that you’ve not watched the Quadrilogy’s superb Director’s Cut of Alien 3 then? Because Golic (Paul McGann) features heavily in it. It features the original storyline that Fincher wanted of them trapping the alien initially, as planned…but then it all goes horribly wrong courtesy of the demented Golic.

It’s a much better cut of the movie and I think it’s a stunning close to the trilogy. Yes…trilogy. Resurrection does not exist in this dojo.

[Richey]

> Speaking of continuity holes: it seems BtE renders Prelude to Nanarchy definitively non-canonical. According to Prelude (IIRC), the crew never got back to Red Dwarf after visiting the Esperanto. So Cat would never have got the chance to get the Joy Squid back on board.

Fuck that! The biggest question is just when exactly during the events of ‘Back To Reality’ did The Cat get the chance to find the joy squid and stash it on Starbug. Answer: He didn’t, hence continuity error.

[Richey]

Dwain Chambers was in the store a few weeks back, signing copies of his new book ‘Race Against Me’, in which he tries to explain how he deserves a second chance.

No comment.

[Richey]

> I?VE GOT A PLAN. AND IT?S AS HOT AS MY PANTS!!!

Win.

[Richey]

And brush that fringe off your face!!! It’s a wonder you can see to type, boy!! :P

[Richey]

> I mean, if they HAD to have a dinousaur on board, why not instead of clumsily forcing it out of a bird, a time wand and erection gag rubbish, Red Dwarf flies through the same time hole from Backwards. And in the 200 years that have passed, that universe has reverted to the prehistoric ages and as such a MUCH more logical, sensible (to an extent) AND interesting concept to bring a dino on board.

Because time running bacwards for 200 years from the point in Backwards would not lead to the prehistoric era.

[Richey]

After BTE: Blade Runner, does anyone else think Doug might once again attempt to produce humour in Red Dwarf through ‘homage’? I was thinking about this today at work and wondered what a series of Red Dwarf, with every episode being an homage to a different story, might turn out like.

Well, here’s my suggestion for an episode (prepare to engage sarcastic laughter mode :P)

Episode: The Admirable Kryten
Whilst investigating a mysterious planet, Starbug is forced to make a crash landing. Unable to repair the ship, the crew is forced to forraging on this strange new world. Kryten, using his knowledge of basic survival, takes it upon himself to lead the group. But as he becomes accustomed to his new power, he begins to grow meniacal in his control over the others.

Aside from the blatant homage to the JM Barrie play, you could also use homages to other greats in this episodic formula

– trapped in a strange place and forced to survive, leading to development of a hierarchy = LORD OF THE FLIES
– both Lister and The Cat injured, forcing them to rely on Kryten = BETTER THAN LIFE (NOVEL)
– Kryten’s brain is also damaged in the crash which is why he eventually starts to become maniacal in controlling the others and finally chases them across the planet in a murderous frenzy = MISERY, THE SHINING

That last one in particular I can imagine Bob Llewellyn playing beautifully – Kryten as Kathy Bates would be fun to watch :D

[Richey]

> like the over-compensating eager ugly motherfucker who somehow is inexplicably dating the most beautiful girl in town? eventually she will outgrow him and rise to her level, but for now, right now, he is clinging to everything he can, DESPERATE to please in the hopes she won?t (inevitably) slip through his grasp.

You’ve been reading my diary again haven’t you?

[Richey]

> Are you suggesting that Simon Gregson hasn?t done any other shows because Corrie didn?t let him?

It’s true. They keep him locked in a shed behind Dev’s shop between shoots.

[Richey]

Oh, and Danny – you improved that whole sequence 100% with what you did, because it makes it FUNNY. The over-the-top Goodall guitar wanking makes the scene hillarious because it infuses it with a totally misplaced sense of cool. As though the guys are trying to act cool and take it in their stride that they’re driving around a ridiculous looking car. Good work, sir.

[Richey]

> the sad Observation Dome music

One of my all-time favourite Howard Goodall musical bits.

[Richey]

> I seem to remember that White Midget was an error in the Bodyswap script. They changed the design of the model to Blue Midget but forgot to change the script.

And is White Giant something I’m remembering from the books??

[Richey]

> What is the meow for?

A reference to the opening shot of every Coronation Street episode, I believe. I guess they could have had The Cat go ‘Yeeeoooww!’ instead, but I’m glad they didn’t :P

[Richey]

While we’re on the subject of Blue Midget – I never worked out the difference between Blue Midget, White Midget and White Giant. I seem to recall all three being mentioned at least once in the series, but they all seemed to look the same as Blue Midget. At least Starbug was split into Starbug 1 and Starbug 2, much easier to follow! :P

[Richey]

> I think Richey is incorrect to say that there?s ?no comedy?. There are plenty of bits that are supposed to make me laugh. They?re just not succeeding.

This. Apologies for my poor wording once again. This is what I meant, but I didn’t say it properly.

[Richey]

> Father Dead was the Sun?s headline when Dermot Morgan died. Such tact.

Twats.

[Richey]

Father Dead is my fave so far. More Phil, more!!

[Richey]

Most impressive. One of these as a do-it-yourself with the DVD and I’ll think about buying it :D

[Richey]

> So what was Katerina?

A plot device.

[Richey]

> What? It?s genuinely brilliant!

Oh no, don’t get me wrong – it was a giggle. I was just suprised cos I’ve never seen it before!

[Richey]

Dear God….

[Richey]

> There?s just so much we don?t know.

Agreed sir. And while your answers to my points are well thought out and perfectly logical, they don’t really cut the mustard for me (if they are in fact the case in the story, I mean). I just don’t think Doug has done himself any favours with this.

[Richey]

Here’s another plot point/characterisation issue that stuck out horribly for me tonight – did nobody else think the idea of Kryten telling Lister that Kochanski was dead if she really wasn’t was also out of character? To lie to that extent – when we’ve seen before that Kryten still struggles with lying unless his behaviour protocols have been disabled – seems utterly bizarre.

And what was all that stuff the kids were saying about Lister drinking himself to death and basically becoming despondent and depressed BEFORE her supposed death? Surely this is how he would become AFTER he learned Kochanski had died? And based on how she was portrayed in series VII and VIII, is it even remotely credible that Kochanski would be the kind of person to do a runner if a friend was falling to pieces and needed help?

[Richey]

I’ll be tuning in for Part 3 – I’ve got to know now how it finishes. But that’s simply plot intrigue, I’m not expecting any humour now. And that makes me very sad…just thinking of Red Dwarf without jokes makes me sad. This was the show that, alongside Monty Python’s Flying Circus and Blackadder, defined what comedy was for me. I first started watching Red Dwarf when I was 10 years old and now I’m 25 years old. This was one of the most important comedy shows in the world to me. And it’s just a crying shame that, if this is to remain the blueprint for any future Red Dwarf, it will no longer represent that for me.

So yeah…I’ll be watching Part 3. But last night I was looking forward to Part 2. The only thing I’m looking forward to tomorrow is a roast lamb dinner.

[Richey]

> Although he DID kill the entire crew of Red Dwarf. Okay, it was an accident and Listers fault for not being there to help on the drive plate, but kill them he did :)

But mate, you know what I’m getting at. They died through Rimmer’s incompetence. He didn’t kill them as in setting out to kill everyone by deliberately causing the drive plate accident. It was exactly that – an accident. And he didn’t murder anybody either. He also carried the guilt of it for the rest of his death. He felt so guilty about it that the justice computer mistook it for culpability. In BTE, he shows no guilt over wasting Katerina – and that’s just out of character, plain and simple.

[Richey]

> Perhaps even Rimmer killing Katerina all seem a bit out of character.

I mentioned this in the comments for Part 2 and got shot down. ‘They established that killing a hologram isn’t murder’ was the party line from fellow fans. But this kind of misses the point entirely for me – it’s the fact that Rimmer is WILLING to do this, that he is suddenly CAPABLE of killing that is out of character. He’s never actually killed anyone in the whole history of Red Dwarf. Even when he talks about being happy to kill the simulant were he sleeping in ‘Justice’, you know he’s just trying to egg Lister on. Put him in a room with a bazookoid and a sleeping simulant and he’d more than likely do a runner rather than risk fucking it up and the simulant living – because Rimmer is a COWARD, not a KILLER/MURDERER.

[Richey]

> That final episode of Brittas was the sorriest half-hour of sitcom ever.

Also this.

And BTE seems to be going the same way. ‘It was just a TV show’ is far too close to ‘It was just a dream’ for my liking. Part 3 tonight may prove me wrong, but you know what I’m getting at I’m sure.

[Richey]

> Yeah sorry if I came on a bit heavy.

No worries mate. You were just being enthusiastic about the subject matter. I like that in conversations :)

> My point about the books was they are seperate as you say. That?s a logic that I?m also increasingly applying to Doug-era eps.

I’ll agree that it seems to be increasingly the case that Doug writes episodes like he wrote ‘Last Human’.

> Doug simply doesn?t seem capable of the series 4-6 stuff that you?re seeking.

By that I get the feeling you’re saying ‘He can write sci-fi plots as good as 4-6, but he can’t write jokes that good’. In which case, maybe it really is time to let Red Dwarf die so that Doug Naylor can go and write some sci-fi books or even films. If he can’t write comedy anymore, it’s time to pack Red Dwarf in because it is and has always been a comedy show. No comedy, no show. You can’t just take out the comedy and say ‘Oh, it was a stylistic change’. It’s a comedy show! If other comedy shows scrapped the comedy and became dramas, people would be like WTF?! I don’t accept that Red Dwarf is a special case.

[Richey]

I’m pretty sure it was the inflatable parrot in Parrot’s Bar in the episode ‘Camille’ that was being refered to as ‘odd’ – because it’s an inflatable parrot, not a real one.

[Richey]

It was inflatable – see series 4 episode ‘Camille’.

[Richey]

> The last 2 series of Brittas were weak and the special before that (which took them away from the leisure centre environment) also didn`t work imo.

This

[Richey]

An appalling idea. While we’re at it, let’s see Basil Fawlty in retirement, Victor Meldrew haunting his wife and another series of The Vicar Of Dibley.

[Richey]

> It?s really down to whether as a fan of the old Dwarf you can still get on board with it?s new format of quirky sci-fi and comedy, as opposed to the sit-com based stylings of Dwarf past.

Quirky sci fi comedy is fine by me sir – but there doesn’t appear to be any comedy. This is my problem. This is the problem I’ve brought up in every single other thread and discussion on the new episodes. I want Red Dwarf to make me laugh. Series I-VI made me laugh. Some of series VII made me laugh. None of series VIII made me laugh. So I want new Red Dwarf to make me laugh. I really don’t know how many other ways I can say this before people start to understand that I’m not a ‘hater’, I’m not knocking the visual look of the new shows (which I think is smashing) and I’m not against the show evolving. I just don’t want a Red Dwarf drama. I want the quirky sci fi COMEDY, please.

As for your comments about the books mate – I adore the books, each one of them. But to me they’re seperate from the show. They’re a different medium and as such can include a different style. The show turning into the style of the books though is not something I ever felt was a good idea. And based on BTE so far, I stand by that opinion.

[Richey]

Right, I’m orf to get settled down for Part 2. Fingers crossed we’ll get a few more laughs tonight.

[Author]

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