steven87gill

[steven87gill]

I was hoping for a series 13, but I guess now they’ve gotten 3 series of Dave era Red Dwarf under their belt, it makes sense that they’d probably want to move on to periodic standalone specials.

[steven87gill]

What I liked about Life on Mars was the mystery element, the interesting characters, the generally well written individual stories, the witty dialogue and the interesting examination of 70s versus 00s police procedures.

What I liked about Ashes to Ashes was the way Gene Hunt called Keeley Hawes’s character “Bols”.

I’d had no desire to re-watch Ashes or Mars since 2010, mainly because of serious reservations with how it ended, but it hit the iPlayer the other year & I gave it a go, & I have to say I’d forgotten how much I loved Ashes at the time (& slightly preferred it to Mars) That finale really tainted the show for me in retrospect.

I’ve seen the tidbits of Lazarus on Twitter & I get the concept of setting it across the 70’s/80’s & today, but I still don’t fully understand how we get from the end of Ashes to the beginning of Lazarus. Most of the characters are “in the pub” & there’s no mystery anymore since the nature of the world, who Gene is & where they all were has been explained. So how exactly is this going to work?

And it’s only 4/5 eps sounds awfully rushed to me considering how expansive the story is.

[steven87gill]

I’m intrigued as to where the dramatic tension/narrative threat will come from given we know what is really going on with the world, surely the old formula of 90% standard crime drama with a bit of weird stuff happening can’t work now. “Gene, if we don’t hand the drugs over they’re going to kill Phyllis… oh, hang about”.

[steven87gill]

It’s true, but the basic point is that 70s/80s police (or rather, 70s/80s cop shows) were the ones who had issues with brutality and corruption, while the modern police that Sam and Alex are a part of are much more fair, reasonable and accountable.

An important point to make is that it will be mainly set in the present day because unlike the “now” of LOM/A2A, which was *relatively* sterile & dull, the world we’re living in now is anything but that, & in fact a lot of parallels could be drawn to the more chaotic, transitional times of the 70’s/80’s, in terms of where we are as a society with sexual politics, racial tensions & police brutality, which I think is something Matthew Graham & Ashley Pharoah both have something to say on. (that was actually their “eureka” moment for bringing it back in fact)

It was actually setting it in the present day wasthe eureka moment that got Matthew Graham back into it.

[steven87gill]

Yeah, I remember reading about that. If memory serves, I think that’s when Jim Keats was only in the first two eps (from what i recall i think he was originally envisioned as a Guy Pearce from L.A. Confidential type character that Gene would run rings around for a few stories & then he’d disappear) & it would actually be Gene himself that trashes the office at the end revealing it as false.

Only now rewatching the first two series do i realise how much the show worked best as a simple police procedural with aspects of the supernatural sprinkled in.

[steven87gill]

”Pete Part Three: I’ve rewatched Life on Mars at least 3 or 4 times since it aired but never been inclined to revisit Ashes to Ashes, possibly due to misgivings about the ending. I remember very little about it beyond the opening episode, and the final scene where it disappeared up its own arse”

I think it didn’t help that series 3 as a whole moved away from Alex as its heroine, in a way that almost felt like defeat from the writers because they were struggling to keep her story compelling.

Also the midway point of the finale where the characters discover they’re ghosts comes off a bit too awkward & meta, when unpretentious characters in a “cop show” are suddenly aware they’re in a high concept “fantasy show”, Keats going full ham & hissing & spitting didn’t help, you may as well paint red horns on his forehead whilst you’re at it.

Thing is if you take away a lot of the heavy handed symbolism & red herrings (throughout series 3) the finale could roughly stay as is & still work: As for Alex i really don’t see the issue with her getting back to Molly or why the writers felt the audience wouldn’t want that, her becoming just another dead copper feels like a further sign of defeat from the writers who had more or less turned it into the Gene Hunt show by that point, where Alex’s was a side character in her own show (her only role in series 3 was to solve the mystery of who Gene Hunt is.

[steven87gill]

”but everything on New Years Day was low. It was still the 4th highest show that day with the top only 0.5m more. It’s not really a case of the show “haemorrhaging viewers” but just that not many people watch TV on NYD. But let’s not let facts spoil a nice narrative eh?”

Still shit numbers though, however much people might want to spin this as ‘no big deal’.

And considering what the opener pulled just a few short months ago, there’s no excuse for that overnight, also i could care less what other shows are doing, saying ‘but *all* T.V is down these days’ just sounds like the sort of racing drivers excuses that were pulled during the latter half of the Moffat era when the numbers started falling.

If it was compelling, interesting T.V that gave a reason for people to give a shit about it, people would’ve tuned in on the night, regardless of what external factors may have been at play.

It didn’t, & they didn’t. Even on 28 day, 4 screen catch up, the show is nearly 5 million down from the opener to episode 9, so what else do you call that other than ”haemorrhaging viewers”?

Again, it may make up for the shortfall on catch up, so this could all be a moot point anyway.

[steven87gill]

Oh dear, that’s not a great overnight (may improve with catch up, mind) but it is indicative of the level of casual interest in the show & how it’s fallen since the premiere, to be honest.

I don’t think Chibbers appreciates just how much good will he’s pissed away with this latest series.

[steven87gill]

”and his producing abilities seem distinctly lacking if he can’t even deliver the episode quantities at the start of his tenure that the previous showrunners were capable of. Children seem to like the show right now, but 18 months will be a lifetime for them”

Yeah, a gap year after just one series is taking the piss, quite frankly.

To this day I’m impressed with how quickly Moffat managed to get series 8 in the can, they filmed 1×75, 10×45 & 1×60 in just seven short months. And then came back a month later & filmed an hour long christmas special. I can’t imagine how stressful that probably was, but It’s taken Chibnall nearly 3 months longer to produce less content.

”Yeah, but the episodes look super polished”

Yeah, but the problem is that most of the scripts… aren’t.

[steven87gill]

I do worry that he’s squandered the incredible viewing figures of the first few episodes. They knew the world would be watching when this series started, & it should’ve been seen as a golden opportunity to bring the show back into the zeitgeist in a way it hasn’t been since 2009.

And they fucked it.

Badly.

[steven87gill]

Also, BBC have confirmed no Doctor Who in 2019, with the next series coming ”early 2020”. Bradley coming back is great news, at least.

I’m just… meh at this. Considering how underwhelming this series has turned out (after starting out so promisingly) I’m not as bothered as I thought I’d be when this rumour started circulating.

I want to say this will harm momentum, but if we’re being honest the momentum’s already gone, Chibnall pissed it away after the 3rd episode & deep down we all know it, if the 8-9 million consolidated ratings had continued past the first few episodes, I’m certain we’d be getting at least at least *some* of series 12 next year.

[steven87gill]

I do recall the end of Children Of Earth being a rough watch. I mean the whole serial is fantastic, & i love TV painted in darker hues, but the end is… too much, even for me. I mean it’s bold, but in the process it sort of ‘spoils’ Torchwood & forever taints the character of Jack.

I get the impression RTD was not in a good place when he wrote that. I think the closest Moffat ever got to that level of grim was probably Extremis.

[steven87gill]

And Russell T Davies stated he preference for the miniseries format whilst writing Children Of Earth, feeling the format more ambitious & intelligent.

[steven87gill]

”I would hate to see an over-arching plot for a new series of Who, does nobody remember the last two Torchwood specials?”

Children Of Earth was one of the best pieces of television RTD ever penned, & only 5 parts to boot.

Miracle Day was an overcooked mess, thanks largely to being about 5 episodes too long, & having a chaotic behind the scenes American/British co-production.

[steven87gill]

Oh dear, have i just done something incredibly stupid?

[steven87gill]

This is the quoted post

This is not

[steven87gill]

This Is The Quoted Post

This Is The Reply To The Quoted Post

[steven87gill]

Test

[steven87gill]

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[steven87gill]

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[steven87gill]

Please, for the love of god, let us edit our own posts.

[steven87gill]

[steven87gill]

Test

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[steven87gill]

The Whittaker era should’ve took it back into the stratosphere but it hasn’t and why? The writing, the club around the head social commentary and the distinct lack of adventure and eccentric daftness that we do very well.

I think the lack a real, substantive overarching plot hasn’t helped either. There’s been no reason for those extra eyes who tuned in out of curiosity to keep watching past the first few episodes

I still say Chibbers should’ve gone with a full blown serial, either 6×60 or 8×45, one story spread over the whole series. The idea it needed to be standalones to be more ”accessible” is nonsense, look at the figures for Bodyguard or Broadchurch (that Chibnall created)

I mean christ, Doctor Who was practically *built* on the cliffhanger/serialised format.

[steven87gill]

The Whittaker era should’ve took it back into the stratosphere but it hasn’t and why? The writing, the club around the head social commentary and the distinct lack of adventure and eccentric daftness that we do very well.

I think the lack a real, substantive overarching plot hasn’t helped either. There’s been no reason for those extra eyes who tuned in out of curiosity to keep watching past the first few episodes

I still say Chibbers should’ve gone with a full blown serial, either 6×60 or 8×45, one story spread over the whole series. The idea it needed to be standalones to be more ”accessible” is nonsense, look at the figures for Bodyguard or Broadchurch (that Chibnall created)

I mean christ, Doctor Who was practically *built* on the cliffhanger/serialised format.

[steven87gill]

I’m trying to remain positive here because even if the show isn’t to my tastes I want it to do well, & even though 4 million have turned out since the premiere, viewing figures are still respectable (although the fact there’s been a consistent & steady drop in almost every episode is a cause for concern)

For the first few weeks there seemed to be real momentum & dare I say some zeitgeist again, but my gut says that Chibbers may have blown it & we’ll be back to average viewing figures next series. It’s frustrating because the world was watching & this was the shows last big chance to return to a mass audience & we won’t get another shot like this in my lifetime.

[steven87gill]

Yeah I didn’t mean to block quote my own post, but i was trying to reply to this.

the whole of A Good Man Goes to War, Let’s Kill Hitler etc,etc

[steven87gill]

Yeah, I remember at the time that being the first real misfire by Moffat for me. His stuff started to become a lot more hit & miss from that point onward, as if he’d peaked too soon with series 5 & quickly hit writers block.

If you take all of series 5, & bits n’ bobs from 6-10 , you’ve got the makings of an amazing 4 series + specials.

[steven87gill]

>I know Moffat intended to bow out with The Doctor Falls but decided to also do TUAT because Chibnall wasn’t going to, and I think he might have also done the entirity of series 10 for the same reason although my memory is a bit fuzzy.

My first thought when the rumors swirled about the festive episode being moved to New Years Day was all the effort Moffatt had put into not losing the Christmas slot, lol.

Series 10 is really the only time i felt the format was truly tired & Moffat really had run out of ideas, although World Enough & Time/The Doctor Falls *almost* makes the entire series worth it. Twice Upon A Time was just kind of… there. Basically just a glorified epilogue & a bit inconsequential. Kinda like the last 15/20 minutes of The End Of Time but extended to fill an entire episode.

Also, that’s now 3 times we’ve had moments where a much better regeneration was sacrificed for the sake of something more drawn out, overly sentimental & soapy. 10 in the radiation chamber, 11 on the clock tower & 12 at the end of series 10. I still maintain that Capaldi regenerating on the floor like Hartnell & waking up as Whittaker was a fuckin’ open goal & they missed it.

[steven87gill]

That or the 50th TBF. The end of Day of the Doctor would’ve been a perfect jumping on point for a new show-runner.

[steven87gill]

>Doctor Who peaked in Series 8 for me

That’s pretty much where I think Steven Moffat should’ve bowed out, actually (even though I quite enjoyed series 9) He likely would’ve too, if Smith had agreed to stay for another year. Should’ve followed RTD’s lead of 4 series. It would’ve been nice not to have Moffat dominate all of Capaldi’s run.

[steven87gill]

>a 10-parter with deep troughs you have to struggle through any time you want to watch
that story

Who said anything about it having to be ten parts? A five or six part serial is more than enough.

>Miracle Day was a bit shit, wasn’t it?

And Children Of Earth was incredible. Next

[steven87gill]

I find this notion that kids are somehow unable to follow a more serialized format mildly patronizing. If they can happily sit through a 2+ hour Harry Potter film then I don’t see the issue. All about the execution.

[steven87gill]

Gash, I can’t get into edit my comment so yes I am aware that I’ve repeated myself.

[steven87gill]

I’d have preferred one, six-part serial per year with a guest writer coming in for each story, like Toby Whithouse, Neil Cross, or Jamie Mathieson. Sort of like ‘Trial of a Timelord’ but done right. It’s what the show was built on & where TV is at the moment & I feel like the monster of the week format is played out at this point. You could still have a feature length festive episode written by Chibbers but let someone else do the more involved storytelling that a serial requires.

Chibnall i think is the Julie Gardener figure that Moffat badly needed behind the scenes during his tenure, someone who can deal with the actual show-running behind the scenes whilst someone else deals with the actual storytelling aspect. It’s what the show was built on & where TV is at the moment. I feel like the monster of the week format is played out at this point.

[steven87gill]

Step up from the last two weeks, & the only episode of this series where Chibbers doesn’t have a writing credit. Funny that.

Rosa was stellar but you could tell where Chibbers had shoehorned his bits in. We’ve got guest writers for the next three episodes so it will be interesting to see how things go.

[steven87gill]

Chibbers has written way to many episodes this series & they’ve all been thoroughly average (don’t say Rosa because you can tell Malorie Blackman wrote most of that) he should’ve stuck with the opener & closer & let the guest writers do the rest, especially now there are only 10 episodes.

To the people who are surprised at this, trust me, the man has written for Doctor Who & Torchwood since 2006 & every single fucking episode he has ever written (save for maybe the Dinosaurs one, which was actually good fun) has been exactly like this. Just average, he’s the guy you call when you need 20 episodes of Star Trek on a deadline to fill out the rest of the run. Not someone you base an entire series around.

[steven87gill]

Yeah the thread title is a bit low. I may disagree with *some* of his politics but keep it classy G&T.

[steven87gill]

It’s been depressing watching so many celebs who I’ve looked up to over the years shitting the bed big time over Corbyn.

“Politically homeless” is a phrase that makes me want to gouge my eyes out.

[steven87gill]

The only thing I ask for series 11 is that the production people don’t cake Chris Barrie with make up and slap (what look like) hair extensions on him.

I mean, look here.

http://www.ganymede.tv/wp-content/uploads/sfx-seriesx-rehearsals-350×422.jpg

Look how much more he actually looks like Rimmer in that photo, when they’re not trying to force it with OTT make up and weird flat looking, overly gelled/extension-ised hair.

Okay, so his hairline has receded a bit, but so what? Here, he naturally oozes *Rimmer-ness*

(is that a word?)

[steven87gill]

Yeah, thinking about it, you’re right.

I know what you mean about the lack of story in series 7. I thought series 6 suffered from this aswell, especially in AGMGTW, LKH & TWORS.

I think It’s because Moff decided to integrate the split into the narrative itself, so we ended up with the normal two part finale sacrificed, and the story of it spread over three episodes, so individually the episodes feel like they’ve been ‘padded out’.

Wow, you actually convinced someone on an internet forum to change their mind on a subject, that’s a first I think! ;)

[steven87gill]

Great series final, but I maintain that both the opener and closers or S7 were crying out for two parts to be allowed to breathe.

I’ve liked the standalone ‘mini movie’ concept of S7, and I liked the idea of it airing in two halves, and when It was first announced I figured we would get a 7 week run leading straight into where the Xmas special would normally air, with a 10 week gap between ala S6, and another 7 episodes.

However the near six month wait between each half was taking the piss somewhat, and made you feel like it was being done more for cost saving reasons than anything else.

[steven87gill]

Time disintegrating was too similar to the finale last year. The presentation of the event was different, but the basic idea was a notch too similar for two series finales in succession. However the timey wimey in this was easier to wrap my head around than last years, which if I’m perfectly honest….I still haven’t really got.
By the same token, the skewed timeline was more or less just a way to drag out the resolution. My guess is that if the skewed timeline subplot wasn’t there then there would be more people on internet forums going ”ZOMG THAT WAS SO OBVIOUS I GUESSED THAT AGES AGO”. So the Moff came up with a clever ‘bells and whistles’ way of distracting the audience so that when the reveal comes of how the doctor actually escapes, you’re still scratching you head over the tangent timeline to realise the resolution wasn’t as surprising as you first thought.

And actually, compared to the reaction the River Song reveal got, it seems to have worked a treat.

Believe it or not though, I .really. enjoyed this finale.

Looking forward to the Xmas special.

[steven87gill]

‘The Big Bang’ does make sense…as long as you’re willing to accept that, within the realms of Doctor Who, anything’s possible!

Jump starts the second big bang!?

Sorry, had to be done ;)

Anyway, Matt’s been all kinds of awesome as the Doctor, so here’s hoping he remains in the show for a good few years to come, though I fear he may do a Tennant and flake out on us after just a few series. I hope that isn’t the case though.

[steven87gill]

‘We’ve had meetings about the logic of the show where you come out with your eyeballs bleeding,’ says Pharoah. they will neither confirm nor deny whether John Simm will reappear as Sam Tyler (despite jumping to his death at the end of Life on Mars).”

See, stuff like this irritates me, why couldn’t the writers just be up front and say that JS wouldn’t be in the final, it just seems a bit mean in restrospect to build up false hopes considering that Simm was never even asked.
Besides, as it has been said before, a cameo wouldn’t have made much sense (based on the purgatory explanation) anyway, and i doubt people knowing he wouldn’t appear in advance would’ve adversly affected viewing figures.

[steven87gill]

I certainly agree that 24 probably went on longer than it should, but i just think this ending felt right, somehow.

[steven87gill]

I’ve posted this on digital spy but i figure i’ll give my two cents here

I think the writers were just being a bit too clever by half with that twist

In the context of what it turned out to be i could’ve done without the flash sideways, i know it was done for american audiences to soften the blow of the ending simply being jack dying, but i bet the response to the finale would’ve been alot more positive without it.

I guess people with more religious conviction than me will get more out of the flash sideway’s/purgatory (and i’ll admit to getting teary eyed at some of the reunions) but for me it felt a little bit too self indulgent and disctracted from the finale series.

And i’ll be honest after A2A i’m just getting a little bit tired of religious/purgatory/afterlife explanations.

The big difference between american and brit writers:

Lost: Gateway to heaven = Church

A2A: Gateway to heaven = Pub! :)

[steven87gill]

”OK, I’m a bit pished, but I gave it a watch. Was slightly concerned that I wouldn’t be able to follow it with a few beers inside me, but there wasn’t much ambiguity in this so I think I got it all.

To be honest, it felt like fan fiction to me. Much as I like Daniel Mays, the character of Jim Keats didn’t feel right. Where was this character in 2 series of LOM/A2A? To suddenly be proclaimed as the grand villain just didn’t feel right. The creators talked about this being the big finale that would tie LOM and A2A together. No thanks. I’ll leave LOM exactly where it is, with its truly terrific final episode. This can’t compare.

And that’s my big problem with this. None of this seemed seeded from Episode 1 of LOM (because it wasn’t of course, they were making it up as they went along) but to categorically say that this ISN’T the past and what they do has no effect on the present, flies in the face of at least 5 stories in the combined-shows pasts. At least the messy ambiguity never did this.

Gene is the boatman? So, he’s always known that his colleagues are lost in limbo? This is the kind of irritation that I don’t want to have in my head when I rewatch LoM.

And what did the finale of A2A Series 2 mean? Yes, it indicated that Gene was dragging Alex back to his world…but we found out tonight that Alex died (presumably from that bullet in the very first episode)

I’m annoyed that there was no Sam Tyler. If you’d have told me eight weeks ago that he wouldn’t pop up, I wouldn’t have minded but they’ve traded on his name relentlessly. It’s like a C-list celebrity insulting an A-list celebrity, just to gain publicity. Nelson being a pretty poor consolation prize to be honest.

I didn’t hate it. I didn’t even dislike it. I enjoyed it. I liked the *idea* (if not the execution) of the very last scene, but this was not groundbreaking. It was just a bit daft and heavy-handed.”

Christ, if you’re this well articulated with beers down you, you must be bloody einstein when you’re sober :)

But point well made and basically how i felt
The very end with it literally coming full circle and gene ”living” on was a nice touch though. But all the hell heaven allusions i could’ve done without. So viv spends the rest of enternity in hell then, whilst the rest of the team spend the rest of eternity getting pissed up. Well, that’s nice.

[steven87gill]

Looking forward to next weeks ep, Matt Smith’s ‘i am the Doctor, and you are the daleks!’ line sounds corny (i’m sure the audio of that line was leaked the other year and it got people worried) though i’m guessing it might be done for comedy effect, like the ‘who the man’ line in TEH. Out of context that line would’ve sounded worrying as well.

[steven87gill]

New season 5 filming piccies courtesy of alun vega on flickr :):)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alun_vega/

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