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Langstrom and the Holoship crew maybe, but I thought Telford was a genuine human? He’s on Irene’s level. He gave the Cat a gun and all.

I was not saying Telford is not human, but in terms of meaningful character interaction with the main cast he is far less “human” than say Nirvana Crane is in her interactions with Rimmer. And when you have a well drawn Hologram character already at the core of the show, it is not really clear to me how much of a meaningful distinction can be made between a living human or a Hologram in-universe.

I first saw Holoship from a VHS tape I rented from the library a while after I had already seen most of the Grant/Naylor episodes, and I do remember finding it unusual at the time how populated the episode was in comparison to the rest of the show. Pointing out they are Holograms seems on the same level as justifying the Kinatawowi by making them GELFs to me.

I do grant the point about how the Enlightenment crew other themselves from the Dwarfers and thus make themselves more alienating, but then Timewave attempts to do the same thing with the crew of the Enconium. It just does so in a much more problematic fashion.

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Sure they are all Holograms, but Holoship kind of counts right? At least as much as Telford. And Langstrom was going to be invited to join the crew to begin with.

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The station becoming a shining beacon of multiculturalism in response to xenophobia has been one of the more heartwarming messages to lighten all the gloom.

That’s the journey the audience gets to see, but looking at it from the optics of someone on Earth who has been watching ISN for months, then Clark’s propaganda suddenly appears to become prophesy. Probably just a consequence of how condensed Season 4 was, but it feels like everyone just hand waves that away.

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Having just finished a Babylon 5 re-watch to the end of Season 4, one thing that has always bothered me is how after months of President Clark’s propaganda about Sheridan being under the control of malign alien influences, no one makes a single comment about how he shows up to Earth with the backing of an Alien armada, or how the White Star ships are almost exclusively manned by Minbari crew.

They do at least state several times that humans should be leading the battle, but G’Kar and Londo getting the League involved could very well have caused more harm than good. Especially when this is followed by Delenn’s show of force with the White Star ships not long after when announcing the creation of the Interstellar Alliance to the new President.

Actually, maybe Clark had something of a point after all?

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Rimmer is not ideologically consistent whodathunkit.

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Considering how much time passes for them in Tikka, it is not unreasonable to assume that discussing Kennedy’s impact was a subject of conversation.

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Earthshock is just perfect.

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Like persisting with the entirety of 1980s Doctor Who, it’s an exchange of your time that could be spent on more worthwhile things in your list.

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I’m glad I didn’t see it until after his death, because I would have been really annoyed about him leaving before it all got explained. The whole thing is really tragic.

Just imagine having to film an episode like “And the Sky Full of Stars” when you actually have been hallucinating on set.

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I rate the first season of Babylon 5 a lot higher than most, and it becomes only more impressive when you learn what Michael O’Hare was dealing with at the time.

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I believe I have said this before, but I got my first G&T account after reading John Hoare’s “Xtended Revisited: Ouroboros” article, where he described something written on the Tongue Tied Wiki my brother and I nominally took control over in the lead up to Back to Earth as “a large pile of smelly poo and wee.”

While I can hardly be called a regular on here, I feel that quote generally describes most of my continuing output.

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Cappsy put a cap in his ass?

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“Paul Jackson” is not the rarest of names.

I knew two Paul Jackson’s at school, so one of them we just called Tree because he had big hair and looked like a tree.
We actually had a tree at our school that looked like Paul Jackson. Not the Paul Jackson from Red Dwarf, another Paul Jackson who also went to our school and whose nickname was Hedge, because he once hid in a hedge.

And you tied an onion to your belt, which was the style at the time.

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“Paul Jackson” is not the rarest of names.

I knew two Paul Jackson’s at school, so one of them we just called Tree because he had big hair and looked like a tree.

It could be worse. He could have been named Michael.

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There is that one line in in the fourth Hitchhiker’s novel where it describes how the dog “Know Nothing Bozo” was so named because “the way its hair stood up on its head it reminded people of the President of the United States.”

Since the book was released in 1984 I am guessing Adams is referring to Reagan?

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And there was the whole “Senator, you’re no Jack Kennedy” thing on top of that. SNL got into the habit of using a child actor to portray him.

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Yeah, I was not the least bit surprised when I saw John Hoare thanked at the end.

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Anyone ever notice how the word “buttled” has “butt” in it?

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I mean, better to have the price of beer not be adjusted accordingly than to have your airplane fuel not converted correctly. Yes, that really happened. Strangely nobody died.

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RIMMER: (Reading the marker) “Nodnol? 871 selim?” Nodnol? Where’s Nodnol?
KRYTEN: It’s London, 178 miles. It’s backwards.

CAT: What’s the selim?
LISTER: Well, that’s obviously Bulgarian for kilometres, isn’t it?

I do find it odd that Canada seems to have embraced kilometres more than the UK when we have the US for a neighbour.

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Meanwhile Canada is firmly metric with Celsius and Kilometres when it comes to weather reporting and road usage, but we might very well use Fahrenheit when talking about a fever, use pounds for measuring weight, or feet/inches for height.

Having the freezing point of water be at 32 F° rather than 0 C° will just not do this far north.

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I think we all might just have to come to the conclusion that the Cinzano Bianco joke might just be a bit crap.

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Speaking of shades and red and stuff, the Dave era ship is the wrong shade of red, and Starbug is the wrong shade of Green and too glossy and reflective now, both of which make the show uglier than it needs to be. Starbug also looks tiny these days, and some of the model work is shall we say less than stellar.

Wrong opinion thread there, Ben.

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Dorien? Who gave you permission to turn into an Alsatian?

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Everyone who posts here is really cool.

Except me, so just forget I spoke, all right?

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Yes, I’ve always felt this. In the context of the whole run it’s really odd for her to pop up again so late, after such a big gap, and in such a short cameo, only for KK to return in such a different and more prominent way so soon after.

Canonically, yes, but of course from a production standpoint the distance from Clare to Chloë was not much shorter than the distance from Clare’s last appearance in Stasis Leak to Psirens.

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Again, that is kind of how I feel about Cured. In terms of competent structure it excels no matter what you think of the actual ideas or jokes. At least for the messy production of the Dave era.

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That Chris Barrie guy should stick around.

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We’ve lost our keys. And had a picture fall of the wall. Not to mention all the times we’ve used up a whole bog roll in a day.

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One of the best things in BTE Part 1 is a face Rimmer pulls when Cat’s telling him about being attacked by the squid, and that shot isn’t in the director’s cut.

I am still annoyed by a lot of the cuts made to Part One in the Director’s Cut compared to broadcast and never watch it because of that.

Call me a masochist if you like.

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Honestly I think the TNG films are worse offenders when it comes to not coming to terms with the age of the cast. Or their plot lines in subsequent shows.

As some have pointed out before, it is rather disrespectful to the new tactical officer on the Enterprise-E that Worf can come and take his old station back whenever he pleases.

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ike the OT Star trek movies. After wrath of Khan they stopped mentioning how the characters were getting older. And i think thats because it starts to get sad after a while. Especially if you want to keep making more.

“Is it possible, that we two, you and I, have grown so old, and so inflexible, that we have outlived our usefulness?”
– Spock to Kirk, Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

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The Smegmeister was decades ago. We’re still far more concerned about the quite silly thing Cappsy said in his Mechocracy review three years ago.

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I am getting Google promoting the DaisyBryar sticker with its adverts now. Thanks guys.

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Thread being derailed Ganymede & Titan

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Grant Naylor

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Thankfully the CC didn’t come for Red Dwarf but this joke did stir them up a bit.

I think you will find Craig Charles has been involved since at least 1987.

That is obviously what he meant right?

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I will still defend the Blue Midget Dance on the grounds it was the only real thing they gave Danny to do the whole series.

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You mean they were not all bread?

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“Hey, I don’t do the Big Bang! That’s Beryl.”

Rob just needed to watch an episode filmed close to twenty years later for context.

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Ian deserves a place in the Hall of Heroes.

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I guess we are all starting to get tiled of this.

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You do seem a bit pee-ved.

…can we go back to talking about floors now?

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Now we are all just wing-ing it.

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Neither is Ben apparently.

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I don’t think Doug was playing with a full deck when he wrote VIII.

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Because tombow didn’t have the videos as a kid.

I think this governs a great deal of fan opinion actually. Which Dwarf you were first introduced to I mean, not tombow’s personal viewing habits.

Series V and II were the last of the Grant/Naylor era I got to see in full, and while Series II is now one of my favourites, I have always found Series V to be overrated, and it seems to have been the gateway drug for a lot of people around these parts.

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Aslong as you don’t remember Trojan where Howard is a hard light hologram and has a light bee.

Not really a problem since he was posted to a Quantum Twister class vessel as part of the Space Corps Super Infinity Fleet.

“Those Space Corps boys had everything. The buttons, the blasters, the snug elasticated jumpsuits. They had it all!”

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It’s just another thing that became forgotten once the whole light bee idea came along. If the light bee is projecting him and can be recharged on Starbug, why would it need a massive ship to power it earlier one?

I have always been of the opinion that the light bee as we know it was not native to Red Dwarf and was something that Kryten salvaged from a derelict sometime around Series IV.

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(ex: being instantly vaporized by a neutron tank in Dimension 165, which makes zero sense if there are infinite dimensions, like why even bother numbering them?)

Numbered from the amount of hops from the dimension the Wildfire originated from. Keeps growing infinitely. Simple.

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Nestene JFK was the actual shooter Lister put behind the grassy knoll.

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DIMENSION JUMP

The alternate Space Corps. realize sending their best pilot and experimental ship on a one-way trip to never return is inefficient and stupid and decide to keep Ace on the payroll because why the fuck would you banish your best pilot?

To be fair, Rob Grant does address this point in Backwards by having it be an act of defiance by Ace, Spanners, and Bongo.

And then he has Ace get killed in a horribly graphic way, because he’s Rob Grant.

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OUROBOROS

When Lister encounters a Kochanski from an alternate universe, she has no idea who he is as they barely exchanged any conversation on the pre-accident Red Dwarf and worked completely separately from one another.

That said, Lister is able to rekindle his relationship with the parallel version of his rubber plant.

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I am sure there is a joke in there somewhere.

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From Rimmer’s Death Video:
HOLLISTER: Look, it was your job to fix it, Rimmer! You can’t do sloppy work on the drive plate!

It sounds like they knew it could be a big deal.

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And the moral of the story is: Appreciate what you’ve got, because basically, Strawberries are fantastic.

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Kill two birds with one stone. Show that Kochanski eloped with Snacky.

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But not for THE piping hot steak and kidney pie he eats in ‘The End’ though.

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“Condition: Used”

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> Maybe that’s why Cat hallucinates himself as Duane, that is the sort of cat persona he was rebelling against as a kitten before they all buggered off and left him

And now we know they left him because he was like Duane to begin with.

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> It would make for a proper decent Cat episode (that I guess we thought we’d get with Can of Worms). He might decide he wants to stay with his people, then realise that he has absolutely nothing in common with them or their society, and comes back to Lister et al.

RODON: Well, how do you feel now brother? You want to return to our people? Huh? You want to come home?

*Cat looks back at Kryten, Rimmer, and Lister*

CAT: I am home. This is my home right here!

Give Doug some credit, he managed to get quinn_drummer’s entire idea for an episode across in just a little over ten seconds of screen time.

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I was just going to say, I was getting Halloween masks.

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X has the best Smeg Ups. Not sure that is unpopular.

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I was unsure which to pick but I settled on VI just to tweak the nose of V. So there.

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> Presumably Red Dwarf just completely disappearing would make it a fairly big deal that *everyone* would be talking about.

I guess it depends on just how mundane Red Dwarf as a ship was, and how common accidents such as these were. We have no idea how many ships the JMC had in their fleet, or with how much significance the vessel was viewed.

Crew numbers also affect this. 169 people lost is different kind of tragedy from 1,169 people lost, just in terms of scale if nothing else.

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> Kryten’s home era is at least several hundred years after the Red Dwarf fled the solar system. There would be records as to how human history viewed the loss of the ship.

Sure, but are you aware of every maritime tragedy of the last 200 years?

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> it’s one thing to have two different pronunciations of the word but two different spellings?

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I have not seen any of this, but Picard being resurrected in a robot body sounds awfully Shatnerverse. It sure does not help this seem like any less of a vanity project.

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I would rather have Rob novels and Doug specials to be honest.

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> I definitely think that specials are the way to go forward from now on.

Were the last few seasons needed to get there or could Doug have just gone with specials since 2009 do you think though?

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Where do babies even come from?

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Mexicans would still call Katydid and RealBigOleDummy Estadounidense rather than American though, while Brazilians would use Americano/a. French Canadians might use Etats-Uniens rather than American as well. So it is more about language than politics.

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In the case of Canada and Mexico we are just happy for any excuse not get lumped in with you lot.

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> It’s not like any of the other countries on this continent are fighting for the title.

North America no. Central and South America yes. Latin Americans consider themselves exactly that. Americans.

Though we could just as easily have ended up referring to everyone in the United States as Columbians so there you go. History is weird.

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I assume Holly gave him an orientation before hand.

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All I can say is that here in Canada we have Coffee Crisps and you lot are missing out.

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This *is* fun! Are you mad?

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> What the hell is that asshole’s problem, I bust my ass making these and some cunt just gallops in and slaps a tag demeaning it. Honestly.

Yep, that is what editing Wikipedia is like alright.

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>Random unsourced anonymous 4chan post

Jawscvmcdia?

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> Well, we’ve found John’s replacement already.

He wishes.

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About not being interested in Red Dwarf?

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It is the direction that lets Nemesis down. The plot by and large is serviceable.

I remember as a kid listening to an audio book of the novelization of Nemesis, and it really is unreal how much better some of the line readings were in that when compared to the film. A massive missed opportunity.

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Good or near-perfect cast naming.

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Not a joke, but I always like how Craig says “stacked to the gills” in Rimmerworld.

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Babylon 5 curse suddenly comes for DS9.

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So that would still be a yes from you then?

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> News on the Red Dwarf Special can’t come quick enough.

And then a cast member gets sick. I guess this thread is contagious.

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Darrell – 2019

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> It works, though, because sentient cartoon hedgehogs have been an established part of the Dwarf universe for several years now.

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> As does comparing a TV show and novels, written to tell a story, to a videogame tie in, made only to sell videogames to children.

Which were themselves only created to sell the Mega Drive/Genesis hardware to children.

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Rimmer does get Holly to transcribe his report on the alien pod in Waiting for God though. So maybe I am just talking out of my arse.

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Probably more of a case that, while it seems quite predictable in hindsight, digital dictation would not have been top of mind for Rob and Doug in 1988.

Kind of like how Asimov thought digital voice would be a greater hurdle for robots than reliable locomotion. Alexa, pick up the ball.

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One Glorious Hole?

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I was felt warm and safe in my mother’s womb.

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In all seriousness, yeah, it has got to be Out of Time. Even without the “To Be Continued” caption it would have left the door open for more without necessarily needing there to be, which is how Red Dwarf should end.

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Parallel Universe. Obviously.

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Did Symes reply to Warbodog or quinn_drummer there?

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Thing is, you do see pictures of the cast together. Getting a curry for instance.

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